All About Rye Whiskey (Part 1)

[scubadoo97]

They claim the bartenders didn't want the 101 and now claim they are the ones wanting it back. Bunch of BS

I napped a few bottles when I heard they were ending distribution. A decent rye for sure. Never tried the 81

[Rafa]

Yeah, the Straight Bourbon forums are having a lot of fun ripping them apart for this one. Campari's PR people have done a great job of alienating whiskey nerds.

[Hassouni]

Having never had it, how does it compare to Rittenhouse?

[scubadoo97]

Having never had it, how does it compare to Rittenhouse?

Hassouni, I have never had Rittenhouse so can't comment but the WT rye is soft not overly minty and assertive like a lot of LDI ryes at least to me

[tanstaafl2]

Having never had it, how does it compare to Rittenhouse?

For the moment there are 2 Rittenhouses, DSP354 from Brown-Forman (made on behalf of Heaven Hill) and DSP1 which is now made by Heaven Hill and slowly replacing the DSP354 (although DSP354 is still pretty common on shelves for now).

WT 101 Rye is another relatively "low rye" rye whiskey like Rittenhouse having only 51%, or perhaps slightly more, rye with most of the rest corn. LDI/MGPI rye is 95% rye and 5% barley and so it is not surprising it is more rye "assertive" and has less sweetness and body which comes more from the corn component.

DSP354 is to me a bit more bourbon-like than DSP1 and I think WT 101 Rye is probably more similar to the new DSP1 than the older DSP354. That said the difference between all three is pretty subtle in my opinion and hard to pick out in a cocktail that isn't mostly rye.

Edited November 24, 2013 by tanstaafl2 (log)

[weinoo]

So here's a bottle of Old Overholt that's been in my liquor cabinet for a bit (but not more than say, 6 months) and it's a 750ml bottle...

And here's the neck label from a bottle of Old Overholt that I bought yesterday. It's now a liter bottle, and the front label doesn't show an age, but the label around the neck does...

So, it appears as if the formula/aging has changed from 4 years old to 3 years old, and the bottle has gotten bigger.

Anyone have any insight?

[Rafa]

I believe it's always been available in liter bottles ("always" meaning the duration of its current incarnation), and its age has been trending downward for a while now. Straight bourbons and ryes are required to announce their age if it's less than four years old.

[weinoo]

Trending downward from what? 4 to 3? 4 to 3.75?

Have you tasted them side by side?

[tanstaafl2]

Trending downward from what? 4 to 3? 4 to 3.75?

Have you tasted them side by side?

It is a pretty common topic on the bourbon/rye boards that I frequent. The change occurred quietly maybe about a year ago and the general consensus is that the 3yo is dreadful and a significant change from the prior 4yo. I have no personal experience with the 3yo. The 4yo was OK but nothing all that special. Apparently it was once upon a time quite good before Beam go hold of it. The current Old Overholt is Beam rye and to get more age and a bit more proof one should probably consider Knob Creek 100 proof.

Old Overholt is a legendary brand name in American rye whiskey that is apparently being allowed to slowly fade into the sunset which is kind of sad. For a bit more history Chuck Cowdery talked about it a bit in this blog post.

http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2011/08/old-overholt-rye-whiskeys-grand-old-man.html

Edited February 13, 2014 by tanstaafl2 (log)

[Czequershuus]

Finally got around to trying a well regarded modern Rye cocktail, the Rattlesnake. I first became aware of this reading through Paul Clarke's venerable Cocktail Chronicles blog. The recipe hails from the Beretta in San Francisco.

The Rattlesnake

2 Oz Rye Whiskey (Rittenhouse)

1 Oz Lemon Juice

0.5 Oz Maple Syrup

2 ds Peychauds Bitters

1 Egg White

Dry shake then shake with ice. Strain into a cocktail glass and garnish with a lemon twist.

Mmm, yes, that is lovely. I was surprised how much the Peychauds contributed to this, both in color and flavor. The maple does not dominate, but it is definitely present and welcome.I must admit I had this as a breakfast drink with bacon and toast, and this was a great choice. I think that is called a balances breakfast.

[FrogPrincesse]

Finally got around to trying a well regarded modern Rye cocktail, the Rattlesnake. I first became aware of this reading through Paul Clarke's venerable Cocktail Chronicles blog. The recipe hails from the Beretta in San Francisco.

The Rattlesnake is delicious indeed and actually goes back to Harry Craddock and the Savoy. The original calls for rye, sweetened lemon juice, egg white, and absinthe (I make mine with a rinse).

There are lots of variations out there including a tiki-inspired one, the Winter Diamondback.

Edited February 22, 2014 by FrogPrincesse (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I bought my first bottle of Rittenhouse today.  But because I am baking bread at the moment and not quite ready to sit down to a full recipe of whiskey punch, I've been gathering impressions from a small glass while I wait.  My only previous experience with rye is McKenzie, and I must say the Rittenhouse tastes different, as well as having a thicker mouthfeel.  The Rittenhouse has more burn to the finish, but what I taste most is marshmallows.

 

Not sure how that will work itself out in my punch.

[Czequershuus]

I bought my first bottle of Rittenhouse today.  But because I am baking bread at the moment and not quite ready to sit down to a full recipe of whiskey punch, I've been gathering impressions from a small glass while I wait.  My only previous experience with rye is McKenzie, and I must say the Rittenhouse tastes different, as well as having a thicker mouthfeel.  The Rittenhouse has more burn to the finish, but what I taste most is marshmallows.

 

Not sure how that will work itself out in my punch.

I was unsure of Rittenhouse the first time I tried it neat, but I have always found that it is dynamite in cocktail. 

[lesliec]

Jo, is that 'normal' Rittenhouse or Rittenhouse 100? I like the 100 for mixing.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

It's the 100 Bottled in Bond.  I've never seen or heard of any other kind.

 

Sadly the Rittenhouse did not work well in my punch.  Not that it was bad by any means.  It just wasn't good.  Slightly too sweet and not much flavor beyond the taste of alcohol.  I liked it better neat.  Don't worry, I won't pour it down the drain.

 

Meanwhile I have plans to test a couple of other ryes, but I don't have them yet.

[lesliec]

Yeah, they also make a 40 (or so) percent version. Haven't tried it.

Our favourite, of the limited range in this part of the world, is Sazerac. Nice and smooth.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

My project tonight is to revisit the Ward Eight.  Seriously revisit.  To prepare for which I am trying to decide which rye.  Last time I made a Ward Eight (and the time before) I used Rittenhouse.  With which I was slightly underimpressed, although Rittenhouse works OK for me in the Lion's Tail and Trinidad Sour.

 

I just finished my first glass of Taylor, and was so delighed that I poured myself a second one.  The Taylor is smooth, no burn like Rittenhouse, and there is so much more going on than marshmallows.  No impediment going down.  Yet the spice that lingers on the finish is fantastic.  After a couple glasses there is a pleasant warm glow.  But I think the skin is coming off my tongue.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Today I am comparing Taylor and Whistlepig, with glasses in front of me each.  Both 100 proof straight rye whiskey.  Alas, a blind tasting does not seem feasible, so I will note the spirits look quite different.  The Taylor is much darker.  From Whistlepig I got a lot of vanilla on the nose, but then I went back and found the same vanilla from the Taylor.

 

Be right back, I need to go refill my experiment...

 

Swirling the glasses, each rye has its legs, though perhaps more so the Taylor.  Not sure it matters.  My background as a wino compels me to note such things.

 

But must have more data.  Now where was I?  Both go down pretty smooth.  No complaint there.  However after a good swallow there is a distinct bitterness from Whistlepig (maybe tannin?) that I don't get from Taylor.  And I do not find much finish from Whistlepig, something I really, really like about the Taylor.

 

For swilling neat, it's no contest, I prefer the colonel.  Though I'm of course an amateur, so take that with a grain of salt -- or at least a salted peanut.

 

Now to test how Whistlepig performs in a Ward Eight!

[FrogPrincesse]

Somehow I am feeling sad at the idea of WhistlePig with orange juice and grenadine.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Somehow I am feeling sad at the idea of WhistlePig with orange juice and grenadine.

 

It was kinda sad but perhaps not in the way you mean.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Reflecting on this, do I infer everyone else prefers Whistlepig to Taylor?  I'm sorry, Whistlepig doesn't do it for me.  Of the four ryes I've tried I would have to rate them Taylor, McKenzie, Whistlepig, and Rittenhouse.  And for use in mixed drinks Taylor, McKenzie, Rittenhouse, then Whistlepig.  Rittenhouse just tastes like marshmallows but at least it isn't bitter.  And I'm not sure the Whistlepig bitterness is tannin.

 

I'm disappointed because I was saving Whistlepig for last, hoping I would like it best.  In my opinion Whistlepig does not live up to the hype nor price.

[KD1191]

Reflecting on this, do I infer everyone else prefers Whistlepig to Taylor?

 

Nope. Whistlepig wouldn't enter into my top 10 for ryes (mixing or sipping). I don't care for the dry finish on the Taylor, but it's still better than WP, imo.

 

Of the four ryes I've tried I would have to rate them Taylor, McKenzie, Whistlepig, and Rittenhouse.  And for use in mixed drinks Taylor, McKenzie, Rittenhouse, then Whistlepig.  Rittenhouse just tastes like marshmallows but at least it isn't bitter.

 

Of the ryes currently on my shelf, I'd rank them as:

 

Mixing - Rittenhouse LMDW Blue Label Bonded, Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye, Wild Turkey 101, Rittenhouse Black Label Bonded, Sazerac 6

Sipping - High West 21 Year, VWFRR, Old Potrero Hotaling's*, Rittenhouse 25 Year, Old Potrero 18th Century*, Sazerac 18

 

*Not technically Rye by U.S. law. despite 100% rye mashbill.

[Adam George]

I liked Whistlepig when I tried it, but it's far too expensive over here.

Oddly, I think I preferred Jefferson's when I tried it, which some have speculated is the same stuff.

[scubadoo97]

I liked Whistlepig when I tried it, but it's far too expensive over here.

Oddly, I think I preferred Jefferson's when I tried it, which some have speculated is the same stuff.

Agreed, WP is too expensive for what it is. And though I like the Willett LDI rye it's also a lot for a 4-5 yr old rye. A couple of yrs ago when KBD stated running their still they were running a batch of rye. Hope to get a chance to taste it one day. The white dog off the still was pretty tasty

[Adam George]

We in the UK pay through every orifice for Rye.  Just seen Rittenhouse bonded go up to £36.  It used to be around £20 not long ago.