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Joe Blowe

All About Rye Whiskey (Part 1)

498 posts in this topic

On the one hand, I think a "Red Hook" with Carpano, is probably best described as a "Red Hook with Carpano Antica." And I'm not sure there would anything wrong with that. Theoretically, you'd need less Maraschino, since it's sweeter.

If you really want to fake the Punt e Mes, I'm thinking a dash of Campari would get you closer than any kind of aromatic bitters.

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On the one hand, I think a "Red Hook" with Carpano, is probably best described as a "Red Hook with Carpano Antica." And I'm not sure there would anything wrong with that. Theoretically, you'd need less Maraschino, since it's sweeter.

If you really want to fake the Punt e Mes, I'm thinking a dash of Campari would get you closer than any kind of aromatic bitters.

Thanks. Worth trying to see although I have not had a Red Hook made the right way to compare so will be hard for me to judge (one point of doing this after all is to try a number of different drinks). Good point on the Maraschino.


If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. ~Mark Twain

Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...

~tanstaafl2

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Anyone have any first hand experience with the specialty bottling of Rittenhouse for La Maison du Whisky? I was able to extract minimal notes from the clerk due to my terrible French...he mentioned it was 'spicier' than your average bottle. At roughly $50, I'm hoping I got more than just a special label.

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True rye and true bourbon wake delight like any great wine...dignify man as possessing a palate that responds to them and ennoble his soul as shimmering with the response.

DeVoto, The Hour

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Anyone have any first hand experience with the specialty bottling of Rittenhouse for La Maison du Whisky? I was able to extract minimal notes from the clerk due to my terrible French...he mentioned it was 'spicier' than your average bottle. At roughly $50, I'm hoping I got more than just a special label.

Broke it open last night and tasted it against the regular Rittenhouse and a couple other ryes...the blue label had significantly more oak than the regular. It also came across as the driest/least sweet of all, which I guess could partially explain the comment about being spicier, but I didn't note any particularly increased level of 'spice'. I would hazard a guess that the barrel used for this bottling has quite a bit more age on it than your average bottle of Rittenhouse...maybe 8-10 years. All in all, I think it was a decent investment.


True rye and true bourbon wake delight like any great wine...dignify man as possessing a palate that responds to them and ennoble his soul as shimmering with the response.

DeVoto, The Hour

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Is it still a Red Hook if you use Carpano instead of Punt e Mes?

No. The Red Hook relies upon the extra bitterness and intensity of flavor for its characteristic flavor. Subbing regular sweet vermouth for Punt e Mes would remove this crucial component of the drink.


Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

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Is it still a Red Hook if you use Carpano instead of Punt e Mes?

No. The Red Hook relies upon the extra bitterness and intensity of flavor for its characteristic flavor. Subbing regular sweet vermouth for Punt e Mes would remove this crucial component of the drink.

Well, I guess I break open the Punt e Mes or perhaps try the splash of Campari with the Carpano. I find Carpano to be a little less sweet than regullar sweet vermouth but presumably it doesn't have quite the bitter element of Punt e Mes.


If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. ~Mark Twain

Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...

~tanstaafl2

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Not so much on the thread of lists of rye-based drinks, although I'm definitely going to be clipping this list and keeping it handy, but has anyone noticed what they did to our dear friend, Wild Turkey Rye?

It's now 80 proof. Goddamit. Leave it to the major labels to screw up a great product.

I'm glad you mentioned that. I've been very annoyed by that. I didn't know if it was Pennsylvania choosing to stock a different version or if WT actually did away with the 101. In fact, I haven't bought any since they did that. If I'm in a store that doesn't have Bulleit Rye, I'll take Jim Beam before I'll buy that WT 81 nonsense.


Edited by brinza (log)

Mike

"The mixing of whiskey, bitters, and sugar represents a turning point, as decisive for American drinking habits as the discovery of three-point perspective was for Renaissance painting." -- William Grimes

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Well, the Rye night is over and appears to have been a success. A bit toasty out on the deck but everybody seemed to make do. Ribs seemed to be a perfect accompanying dish to the rye cocktails along with sweet potatoe, veggie medley and my house specialty of baked beans.

The Drinks menu (the most important part of course!) ended up as follows.

The featured drink was the American Trilogy. Everyone who wanted one was greeted with this drink at he door. I cheated a bit and used a rich demerara sugar syrup insted of trying to muddle a brown sugar cube or even just using brown sugar. That way I could put the the sugar in the glass and add bitters in advance, premix and refrigerate the Rittenhouse BIB and Lairds BIB 1:1 and the add 2 ounces to the glass and stir with a single large ice cube. Seemed to work.

I couldn't decide what to cut so I ended up with the following options:

"Featured Drink"

The American Trilogy

The “Classic” Manhattan and Variations

Manhattan

Bensonhurst

Brooklyn

Greenpoint

Little Italy

Red Hook

Classic Rye Cocktails – Vintage and Contemporary

Algonquin

Blinker

Cooper Cocktail

De La Louisiane

Diamondback

Final Ward

Globetrotter (L.E.S. Globetrotter from PDQ)

Junior

Rack & Rye

Racketeer

Rattlesnake

Red Ant

Remember the Maine

Scofflaw

Vieux Carré

Never made it to the Manhatans and variations. Had a Vieux Carré fan in the party and so everybody wanted one as the next drink. Used Baby Saz, Ferrand 1840 cognac, Carpano, Benedictine and bitters and I must say they were quite good.

Did manage to work in a few others like the Rack & Rye and the Globetrotter (surprisingly tasty!) so it went well. But still have quite a few more drinks I would like to try.

Ah well, something for next time perhaps.


Edited by tanstaafl2 (log)

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. ~Mark Twain

Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...

~tanstaafl2

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Not so much on the thread of lists of rye-based drinks, although I'm definitely going to be clipping this list and keeping it handy, but has anyone noticed what they did to our dear friend, Wild Turkey Rye?

It's now 80 proof. Goddamit. Leave it to the major labels to screw up a great product.

Yeah I knew this was coming and picked up about a case from local stores before it became extinct. You can still find it on shelves if you look. Was not a big seller to begin with.

The skinny I heard was bartenders complain about alcohol that's too high in proof. Don't know how true it is. Wild Turkey also has their bourbon at 81 and 86.8 pf

Alcohol carries flavor damn it!

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All this talk about Rittenhouse and I can't ever find it in CA and I have never tasted it until yesterday. Finally I am in NY and went with a friend to a little bistro and they had Rittenhouse so I ordered it, neat. I am embarrassed to say that I did not really examine the bottle so I can't tell you exactly what I was drinking. The bartender was very sweet, pouring generously. It was incredibly delicious. Just my idea of the perfect rye. I know this is so not helpful, but I have an excellent excuse: my mother just died and my intention was to get plastered. I might just have to go back to this bar to find out, but that probably won't be for a month or so.

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Katie, I -- and I'm sure all of us -- are sorry for your loss. Tough times.


Kindred Cocktails | Craft + Collect + Concoct + Categorize + Community

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I spent a very educational several hours at the Leopold Bros. distillery earlier this week, and the highlight of an extensive tasting may have been the Maryland Style Rye (high praise, as both their maraschino & absinthe are perhaps the best I've had). Complex and surprisingly fruity, it's a beautiful and rather unique expression of whiskey making. It's only spent 2 years in the barrel (a full sized one), but I didn't find that limited time to be in any way a detriment to the finished product (though I was nonetheless excited to learn they're also in the process of aging a bonded version). They are barreling the current expression at close to their bottling strength (49% barrel, 43% bottle), which they believe allows them to embrace the wood while still showcasing the extreme care taken in their distillation process. It also evidently produces a different mouth-feel, due the overall reduction in dilution of the aged product.

While I found the fruitiness to be a surprise, once I'd heard about everything that went into making this rye, it became clear that it was actually their primary goal. We were told that Pre-Prohibition Maryland Style Rye was frequently augmented with some amount of fruit juice, and that they wanted to honor this style while not going to those lengths. Instead, the berry notes come from a relatively unique process (apparently Buffalo Trace does it to some extent, as well) of a bacterial fermentation step that results in the creation of additional esters, which present as aromas of raspberry & strawberry in the finished product.

If you're interested in a bit more of the mechanics or vision behind the Maryland Style Rye, this thread over at StraightBourbon has a number of posts by the head distiller, Todd Leopold. For now, it seems destined to be a Colorado exclusive. So, if you're interested, I would get in touch with a local store, as their entire allocation for this year will be released in about two weeks.


Edited by KD1191 (log)

True rye and true bourbon wake delight like any great wine...dignify man as possessing a palate that responds to them and ennoble his soul as shimmering with the response.

DeVoto, The Hour

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Another Vieux Carré fan here. Delicious.

Just for fun, this is how NOT to serve a Vieux Carré (from a local restaurant). A little on the watery side, with bonus ice crystals and foam (I knew it the second I heard the cocktail shaker). Despite these issues, it was still a decent cocktail (at least in comparison to that other thing in the background which was very sadly named after The Professor).

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Much better version at home...Templeton rye and Pierre Ferrand 1840 cognac (very good combo in this drink), Dolin sweet vermouth, Benedictine and Angostura bitters.

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What?? No Peychaud's in that Vieux Carre?? I thought the other items were up for calling brands but that the combination of both the Angostura and the Peychaud's was de rigeur for that cocktail... :unsure:


Katie M. Loeb
Booze Muse, Spiritual Advisor

Author: Shake, Stir, Pour:Fresh Homegrown Cocktails

Cheers!
Bartendrix,Intoxicologist, Beverage Consultant, Philadelphia, PA
Captain Liberty of the Good Varietals, Aphrodite of Alcohol

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What?? No Peychaud's in that Vieux Carre?? I thought the other items were up for calling brands but that the combination of both the Angostura and the Peychaud's was de rigeur for that cocktail... :unsure:

Let's call it a Vieux Carré "variation" then. See, it's a great cocktail because it's great even when you mess it up a little! ;-)


Edited by FrogPrincesse (log)

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More rye cocktails with Benedictine (no Peychaud's for these, I made sure to double and triple check!)

First, the Creole Cocktail. It's a Manhattan with Benedictine and Amer Picon (Picon bière in my case). So obviously you get a lot of the orange flavor from the Picon. There were also some unexpected chocolate notes. More spice/bite than the Vieux Carré (in a good way). Again the Templeton worked nicely in that drink.

8449711010_70f8ec9d19_z.jpg

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Then last night we tried the Preakness Cocktail. Another Manhattan variation, this time with just the addition the Benedictine (therefore like a Creole without Picon). I found it a little more bitter than the Creole, maybe because it did not have the orange flavor to round things off, but I thought that it was great how you could tease some much flavor out of the Templeton (which was quite subdued on its own) by adding a touch of Benedictine.

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Absolutely needs the Peychaud's. It's a New Orleans cocktail, after all.

I agree. I had the good fortune of enoying a Vieux Carré at the actual Carousel Bar at Tales 2011. Wonderful memory. In fact, I think I've just selected my Friday evening aperitif for tonight. In the mix will be Bulleit Rye and Cocchi Vermouth di Torino.


Mike

"The mixing of whiskey, bitters, and sugar represents a turning point, as decisive for American drinking habits as the discovery of three-point perspective was for Renaissance painting." -- William Grimes

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More rye cocktails with Benedictine (no Peychaud's for these, I made sure to double and triple check!)

First, the Creole Cocktail. It's a Manhattan with Benedictine and Amer Picon (Picon bière in my case). So obviously you get a lot of the orange flavor from the Picon. There were also some unexpected chocolate notes. More spice/bite than the Vieux Carré (in a good way). Again the Templeton worked nicely in that drink.

This is one of my absolute favorite classic cocktails. Using Picon Bière, I think a bonded Rye (if not barrel proof) will work much better at sussing out the various flavors in play, and Punt e Mes will add back a bit of what's been lost in the dumbing down of Picon. That said, with vintage Picon, it's simply spectacular. I find it hard to come up with an excuse to make something else with my stash.


True rye and true bourbon wake delight like any great wine...dignify man as possessing a palate that responds to them and ennoble his soul as shimmering with the response.

DeVoto, The Hour

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I don't think we should talk too much about our vitage Picon bottles... just sayin'...

Not unless you're willing to mix one for us all! ;>)

With the new interest in gentian flavored amer/amari going on, I wonder if anyone is petitioning the makers to bring back the original formulation?


"The thirst for water is a primitive one. Thirst for wine means culture, and thirst for a cocktail is its highest expression."

Pepe Carvalho, The Buenos Aires Quintet by Manuel Vazquez Montalban

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