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amccomb

failed buttercream

55 posts in this topic

Do you beat this with the paddle or the whip on your KitchenAid?

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Do you beat this with the paddle or the whip on your KitchenAid?

Hi,

Not sure who you were asking, but I always use the paddle to avoid excess air bubbles.

Thank you. I was wondering how you beat in the butter. I usually whip the egg whites with the whip and pour the syrup in while still whipping withthe whip. I just wanted to see if you switch to your paddle when you mix in the butter? I am not very coherent today... :unsure:

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I usually whip the egg whites with the whip and pour the syrup in while still whipping withthe whip.  I just wanted to see if you switch to your paddle when you mix in the butter?  I am not very coherent today... :unsure:

I've done that once or twice -- switched from the whip to the paddle -- but I get just as good results using the paddle for the egg whites, so I'm now a paddle girl from start to finish.

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You know, I've always added cold butter to all my buttercreams. The action of the mixer warms the butter up soon enough anyway and it always whips up nice. Not only that, I never have to worry about the butter or the buttercream being too warm and hard to work with.

Ditto. Cold and hard butter works better for me.

And once I add the sugar syrup to the meringue, I beat it for quite a while in my KitchenAid...approximately 15 minutes.

I also cook my sugar syrup to 248 degrees F.

I use the wire whip from start to finish.

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Just curious on Cream of Tartar added to the Italian Meringue Buttercream.............and what do most of you do, use it or not?

What's your thoughts on added stability?

I know it stabilizes/increase volume of the beaten egg whites, but do you notice a difference when making an IMBC?

I looked back at my old school recipes, all are w/out. My normal go to recipe is w/out. Noticed...... RLB uses the cream of tartar.

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Re cream of tartar... I used to use it all the time to prevent the whites from being overbeaten, but when I forgot once, it didn't make any difference so I stopped using it in the IMBC.

Re French vs IMBC (vs Swiss) - I like the egg white meringue for stability and longevity at rm temp (I can keep IMBC at rm temp for 1-2 days - not in the heat of summer, but most of the year it's fine.) A whole egg or yolks only buttercream doesn't have the same storage at rm temp which is why I don't use it.

I do go back and forth about whether I should switch from IMBC to a Swiss meringue - I could use frozen whites rather than having to separate shell eggs (and there's only so much yellow cake and curd I can make with the yolks!) I know a lot of people use Swiss meringue, but I don't know whether it can be stored for as long as IMBC or not. Anybody?

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I have only made an italian buttercream once. Do most of you prefer that over French?

I prefer Italian buttercream over French buttercream. The amount of butter used is rich enough--it needs the egg whites to lighten it. I don't like the heavy feeling of butter coating my tongue. Also, a rich cake with French buttercream seems like overkill to me.

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I have only made an italian buttercream once. Do most of you prefer that over French?

I prefer the flavor of French, but when I'm doing lots of piping, the Italian holds up much better. 'Specially in hot weather.

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has anyone tried making an italian meringue cream cheese buttercream? i have a fabulous carrot cake recipe but cream cheese frosting (cream cheese, butter, 10x) just isn't to my taste. i have tried adding philadephia brand to my italian meringue buttercream after adding the butter, but the mixture separates. i am going to try a brand with less water content. Any other suggestions?

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has anyone tried making an italian meringue cream cheese buttercream?  i have a fabulous carrot cake recipe but cream cheese frosting (cream cheese, butter, 10x) just isn't to my taste.  i have tried adding philadephia brand to my italian meringue buttercream after adding the butter, but the mixture separates.  i am going to try a brand with less water content.  Any other suggestions?

Well, just an obvious idea you probably have already discarded is to get some cream chese flavor and add that. Or add the cheese to the butter??? Don't know how that would work. Or combine cream cheese icing with the completed meringue icing. Just brainstorm type ideas--have no idea how it would work.

Actually what I would totally do is lightly season the cream cheese with lemon juice and vanilla and a bit of powdered sugar and fill the cake with that & frost it with the meringue stuff.

However the real reason I'm posting is to welcome you to egullet--you have a wonderful name!!!! :wub:

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has anyone tried making an italian meringue cream cheese buttercream?  i have a fabulous carrot cake recipe but cream cheese frosting (cream cheese, butter, 10x) just isn't to my taste.  i have tried adding philadephia brand to my italian meringue buttercream after adding the butter, but the mixture separates.  i am going to try a brand with less water content.  Any other suggestions?

This is my standard cream cheese buttercream, done with both Italian and Swiss meringues. I use Philly... just whip 250g seperately then beat that into the buttercream. I then add 1 Tbsp. almond extract to accentuate the flavour of the cheese.

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I do go back and forth about whether I should switch from IMBC to a Swiss meringue - I could use frozen whites rather than having to separate shell eggs (and there's only so much yellow cake and curd I can make with the yolks!) I know a lot of people use Swiss meringue, but I don't know whether it can be stored for as long as IMBC or not. Anybody?

Swiss meringue BC can be stored as long as Italian. However, Italian is a little bit more stable at room temp than Swiss....that's what I've discovered anyway.

I sort of don't understand what you wrote about switching from Italian to Swiss so you could use frozen whites. If you're not able to use frozen whites for Italian, why would you be able to use them for Swiss? :unsure:

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Swiss meringue BC can be stored as long as Italian. However, Italian is a little bit more stable at room temp than Swiss....that's what I've discovered anyway.

I sort of don't understand what you wrote about switching from Italian to Swiss so you could use frozen whites. If you're not able to use frozen whites for Italian, why would you be able to use them for Swiss? :unsure:

If I use all frozen whites in my IMBC, they collapse when I add the sugar syrup (it doesn't matter which brand - Papetti, sysco, the no name brands that various distributors carry). I found I can get away with using them for some percentage (not more than 30% of the total weight, my usual batch is 30 oz whites, of which not more than 10 oz can be the frozen ones or they collapse). So, I was wondering since Swiss Meringue has the sugar and whites heated first before whipping and no hot syrup added, I could use the frozen whites for that. I've never made Swiss meringue bcrm so this might not work either!

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If I use all frozen whites in my IMBC, they collapse when I add the sugar syrup (it doesn't matter which brand - Papetti, sysco, the no name brands that various distributors carry). 

I make perfect IMBC out of frozen egg whites all the time, so I don't think the freezing is the issue -- are you buying pasturized egg whites in bulk? Maybe pasturization is the culprit?

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If I use all frozen whites in my IMBC, they collapse when I add the sugar syrup (it doesn't matter which brand - Papetti, sysco, the no name brands that various distributors carry).  

I make perfect IMBC out of frozen egg whites all the time, so I don't think the freezing is the issue -- are you buying pasturized egg whites in bulk? Maybe pasturization is the culprit?

Sorry for any confusion, I'm not talking about shell eggs that I've separated (that's what I'm doing) but I'm referring to the commercially available egg whites such as Papetti and all of them are pasteurized. Some of the ones I've bought come frozen, others like sysco's inhouse brand are not; but no matter which brand it is, it doesn't work. It's something about these whites - whether it is the pasteurization process or the additives I don't know. I was hoping that Swiss Meringue would work using this type of commercial whites.

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If I use all frozen whites in my IMBC, they collapse when I add the sugar syrup (it doesn't matter which brand - Papetti, sysco, the no name brands that various distributors carry).  

I make perfect IMBC out of frozen egg whites all the time, so I don't think the freezing is the issue -- are you buying pasturized egg whites in bulk? Maybe pasturization is the culprit?

Sorry for any confusion, I'm not talking about shell eggs that I've separated (that's what I'm doing) but I'm referring to the commercially available egg whites such as Papetti and all of them are pasteurized. Some of the ones I've bought come frozen, others like sysco's inhouse brand are not; but no matter which brand it is, it doesn't work. It's something about these whites - whether it is the pasteurization process or the additives I don't know. I was hoping that Swiss Meringue would work using this type of commercial whites.

I've experienced this as well with a boxed egg product that just happened to be pasteurized. After I ended up with whites that would not get stiff, I decided to read the box. It had something on there stating it was not for use with meringues and other items that required any sort of whipping and instead I should use their whipping whites. :unsure:


Diva

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Do you beat this with the paddle or the whip on your KitchenAid?

Hi,

Not sure who you were asking, but I always use the paddle to avoid excess air bubbles.

I use the whip from start to finish...


Diva

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I finally had my first successful batch of IMB! I changed two things. I poured the sugar syrup into a Pyrex cup to stop the cooking and I made sure the butter was still pretty cold. I used RLB's Mousseline Buttercream with the cream of tarter. I don't know how much that contributed to the success. BTW what is the difference between IMBC and Mousseline? Is it the cream of tarter? Thanks for everyones help!

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would it help to surround the bowl in ice packs?

I am often running against the clock when I bake, and I have been known to press handfuls of ice against the mixer bowl while the whites/sugar syrup mixture is cooling. It helps. You can also jimmy a wider, shallow bowl so it sits around the workbowl and fill it with ice and a little water. It doesn't matter to the end product if it cools quickly or slowly; but I find that if you add the butter when the whites are still warm, the butter melts. (Butter melts at around 95 degrees, so I try to get the temp down to just below that before I add the butter in.

I always use soft butter. I usually have butter laying around the kitchen counter because I bake every day. I've never had a problem using soft butter.


Eileen Talanian

HowThe Cookie Crumbles.com

HomemadeGourmetMarshmallows.com

As for butter versus margarine, I trust cows more than chemists. ~Joan Gussow

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would it help to surround the bowl in ice packs?

I am often running against the clock when I bake, and I have been known to press handfuls of ice against the mixer bowl while the whites/sugar syrup mixture is cooling. It helps. You can also jimmy a wider, shallow bowl so it sits around the workbowl and fill it with ice and a little water. It doesn't matter to the end product if it cools quickly or slowly; but I find that if you add the butter when the whites are still warm, the butter melts. (Butter melts at around 95 degrees, so I try to get the temp down to just below that before I add the butter in.

I always use soft butter. I usually have butter laying around the kitchen counter because I bake every day. I've never had a problem using soft butter.

When I poured the sugar directly from the hot pan, my egg white mixture was sooo hot for the longest time, so naturally when I added the soft butter, it just turned to liquid. I'm amazed that by just trasfering the sugar to a glass contain it would change the outcome that much, but it really did cool down much faster than before. If I had a third hand, I'd be curious to take the temp. of the sugar syrup as I was pouring it, just to see how much higher the temp. goes when leaving it in the container it was cooked in.

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On RLB's mousseline buttercream: I always pour the syrup straight into the meringue once it reaches the desired temp. Never had a problem this way, and never had a problem with the butter melting. This is using room temp butter (in our cool PNW climate). Works perfectly for me every time.

I gave up on the extra pyrex step after the first time I made the recipe.


Baker of "impaired" cakes...

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Thanks to all for the words of wisdom and encouragement in this thread. This weekend I attempted my first buttercream in years. I'd been avoiding it after having several batches be "ruined" and get that cottage cheese look, not knowing that was just one step on the road to success. My officemates will be enjoying caramel Italian meringue buttercream frosted cupcakes with lunch. I started with Ling's recipe and decided I wanted more caramel punch so made a quick caramel syrup to mix in. Fabulous.

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