A martini story

[stevea]

I just returned from a trip to southern Minnesota where a group of us took my mother and father to dinner (it's my mother's 80th birthday) at the Hi-Lo Club in Lakefield, a spot my parents used to frequent when they felt more comfortable going out, but a place I'd never been before. We got there very early (if you knew my family, you'd understand) and our table wasn't ready, so we went downstairs to the bar.

My wife and I decided we wanted a martini, and since there was no table service, I went to the small bar to order. There was only a single bartender, a young man who looked barely old enough to drink. I asked him if he could make a martini and he said yes. But he reached for his Old Mr. Boston drink guide and then asked me "What's in a martini?"

I told him gin (or vodka) and vermouth, and he went back to the wall of bottles to search for the vermouth (which in a green bottle stood out clearly). Finally I had to point it out to him and he returned with it. Then he said, "Do you serve this with ice?" I responded that I preferred mine mixed in a shaker with ice, then shaken and poured in a glass. His eyes started roaming the bar area, and I could see him wondering where in the world a shaker would be. "But," I said, "I'll have it on the rocks this time, so you can skip the shaker."

Then he pulled from a rack two martini glasses that had so much dust and grime that they probably hadn't been used since the Reagan administration. He dumped some ice in them and would have begun adding booze until I stopped him. "Just use the same kind of glasses the other fellows at the bar are drinking from," I said.

He got the glasses, poured in the ice and booze, and then started dumping in the vermouth, glug, glug, glug. "Wait," I said. "Just a little, maybe just a teaspoon." So he went a little lighter, but not much, on the next one.

He handed me the drinks, charged me $5.00 (that's for both of them) and with a kind of proud smile, said, "Those are the first martinis I ever made."

"You done good," I said. "You done good." I didn't bother to tell him about the olives.

Postscript: While waiting for the bartender to notice me, I was asked something I've never been asked before and don't expect to be asked again. A couple standing there turned to me and the man said straight out, "Are you a rural mail carrier?" (Apparently there were a group of them there for a special dinner.)

[bigbear]

.....

"You done good," I said.  "You done good."  I didn't bother to tell him about the olives.

.....

←

Good for you. You probably made his day.

[arjay]

I was in London in a very nice hotel in their beautifully appointed, nicely equipped bar. I asked the nice, seemingly competent bartenderette for a dry martini, straight up.

She brought me a glass of Martini and Rossi dry vermouth.

[Chris Amirault]

Stevea, perhaps you're just too old school, man. The barkeep probably spends his days whipping up Berry-Button Mango-tinis....

[Tess]

I was in London in a very nice hotel in their beautifully appointed, nicely equipped bar. I asked the nice, seemingly competent bartenderette for a dry martini, straight up.

She brought me a glass of Martini and Rossi dry vermouth.

←

That's what "martini" means in some places, although people are more apt to guess that you want the mixed drink these days.

[slkinsey]

I was in London in a very nice hotel in their beautifully appointed, nicely equipped bar. I asked the nice, seemingly competent bartenderette for a dry martini, straight up.

She brought me a glass of Martini and Rossi dry vermouth.

This is, I believe, exactly what one will get in most UK bars. It's simply a regional difference, much the same way that an order for a "milkshake" in Boston will get you a glass of whipped milk with syrup (the drink with ice cream is called a "frappe"). I believe this UK understanding of "Martini" comes from the popularity of Martini & Rossi vermouth, and that many UK bartenders interpret an order for a "Martini" to simply be shorthand for "Martini & Rossi" (i.e., a glass of white vermouth).

[Dave the Cook]

Stevea, perhaps you're just too old school, man. The barkeep probably spends his days whipping up Berry-Button Mango-tinis....

←

Nah. He would at least have known the proper glass, since that seems to be all that's required to earn the -tini suffix these days.

[mizducky]

I was in London in a very nice hotel in their beautifully appointed, nicely equipped bar. I asked the nice, seemingly competent bartenderette for a dry martini, straight up.

She brought me a glass of Martini and Rossi dry vermouth.

This is, I believe, exactly what one will get in most UK bars. It's simply a regional difference, much the same way that an order for a "milkshake" in Boston will get you a glass of whipped milk with syrup (the drink with ice cream is called a "frappe"). I believe this UK understanding of "Martini" comes from the popularity of Martini & Rossi vermouth, and that many UK bartenders interpret an order for a "Martini" to simply be shorthand for "Martini & Rossi" (i.e., a glass of white vermouth).

←

Which of course raises the question: so how does one order the gin-and-vermouth concoction from a UK bartender? Does saying "martini cocktail" work?

(Hey, I don't recall James Bond having this problem when he ordered martinis! )

[Dave the Cook]

I was in London in a very nice hotel in their beautifully appointed, nicely equipped bar. I asked the nice, seemingly competent bartenderette for a dry martini, straight up.

She brought me a glass of Martini and Rossi dry vermouth.

This is, I believe, exactly what one will get in most UK bars. It's simply a regional difference, much the same way that an order for a "milkshake" in Boston will get you a glass of whipped milk with syrup (the drink with ice cream is called a "frappe"). I believe this UK understanding of "Martini" comes from the popularity of Martini & Rossi vermouth, and that many UK bartenders interpret an order for a "Martini" to simply be shorthand for "Martini & Rossi" (i.e., a glass of white vermouth).

←

So how does order the gin-based version?

edit: cross-posted with mizducky. Glad to see that I'm not the only one who's concerned.

Edited September 20, 2005 by Dave the Cook (log)

[Tess]

Which of course raises the question: so how does one order the gin-and-vermouth concoction from a UK bartender? Does saying "martini cocktail" work?

My English boyfriend says "gin and vermouth."

[slkinsey]

. . .so how does one order the gin-and-vermouth concoction from a UK bartender?

So how does order the gin-based version?

Good question. Step one would be making sure you're in a good cocktail bar. The UK has some spectacular cocktails, but cocktail culture does not pervade English culture the way it does American. This is to say that, whereas one can assume that most decent restaurants in the US will know what a Martini is and be able to make a reasonably similar facsimile, one cannot assume this in the UK.

So, I'd make sure I was in a good cocktail bar and say that I wanted a Martini "American style" with gin and white vermouth, or I'd ask for "gin and white vermouth." Then I'd probably ask how they make it and settle on the ratio I wanted.

[ludja]

Which of course raises the question: so how does one order the gin-and-vermouth concoction from a UK bartender? Does saying "martini cocktail" work?

My English boyfriend says "gin and vermouth."

←

One might almost need to say that sometimes in the States as well.

I ordered a Martini at Zuni Cafe (in SF, and which has a very nice bar) recently and the exchange went like this:

"Do you have Hendrick's gin?"

"Yes."

"Great, I'll have a martini. Oh, by the way, what type of vermouth do you use?"

Bartendress pulls herself up a bit, " We *never* use vermouth with our top line gins in making martinis".

"Well, if you have Noilly-Prat, I'd like some of that. Six to one, if that's ok, and an olive"

I got a nice martini in the end, but I was kind of surprised by her comment. Don't know if that is reallly the 'house' policy there, but now I feel like I need to inquire about teh vermouth when ordering...

(I also usually have to ask for a few drops of bitters in my Manhattans, but that's another thread).

edited to add: Enjoyed your story, SteveA. Nice that you gave him some encouragement at the end... It sounds like he had already taken a large step for the day!

Edited September 20, 2005 by ludja (log)

[slkinsey]

ludja, I think that is just a sad result of the misconception that a Dry Martini is meant to only have a token amount of vermouth. Many bartenders say that their default Dry Martini contains no vermouth whartsoever, and yet they will still have a few drinks returned each night with an instruction for "less vermouth." Part of this is due to the popularization of "extra strong, low vermouth" Martinis from noted boozehounds who were really just trying to increase the alcoholic strength of their tipple. The rest is likely due to the popularity of tha vodka "Martini," because vodka doesn't play all that well with vermouth and most people prefer a mere whisper of vermouth at most in a "vodka Martini."

These says I'm more likely to go 1:1 with Noilly Pratt and no more than 3:1 if I'm using a soft gin and a strong vermouth like Vya.

[Marlene]

I'm being talked into trying a gin martini. Vodka martinis have always been my defaut, and yes, we use very little vermouth, but we do use some in them. So Sam, assuming I have Bombay Sapphire and noilly prat, would that be a 1:1 ratio or different?

[divalasvegas]

Oh no reading this thread is tempting me in all kinds of ways at the wrong time of the day. Afterall, there's a liquor store on the main floor of the office building I work in AND a bar next door!

[slkinsey]

1:1 with a twist -- and a short dash of orange bitters, if you have any -- would be a good way to go. Sapphire is a good choice for this ratio, because it is 94 proof. Lower proof gins (say, Plymouth at 82.4 proof) may require a slightly greater amount of gin to make their presence felt.

While I'm offering advice. . . make the drink small (maybe 1.5 ounces of each), stir briefly with cracked ice, strain into a pre-chilled glass and pinch a lemon twist over the surface.

[winesonoma]

Gin and orange bitters. Makes my day.

[bacchant036]

a bit late on the uptake i know, but i've been a busy man.

i used to work in a very busy cocktail bar in chelsea, and i swear theres nothing worse than some cheerful little greek or italian coming to the bar, ask for a dry martini, and when offered with said martini cocktail look horribly dissapointed then embarrassingly say they just wanted a martini dry with no gin. this happened so many times before i learnt to size up the customer and ask, do you want a martini cocktail, and even then they get confused,

on the flip side theres nothing cuter than being asked for a 'white martini' for the first time, and finally realising that there not after some new cocktail from match bar but a martini bianco.

cheers indeed

[SYoung]

In New York, generally, when one orders a Martini, there are 4 questions that a bartender should ask before making the cocktail: (1) Vodka or Gin? (2) Straight up or on the rocks? (3) With Olive or Twist? (4) Shaken or stirred?

A Martini usually has about 1/4oz of Vermouth, a Dry Martini is given a splash of Vermouth, an Extra Dry Martini has no Vermouth, and in an In & Out Martini, the Vermouth is swirled in the cocktail glass and discarded before adding the Gin or Vodka.

To stevea who started this thread, I'm not sure you should've told him "you done good" since he didn't. Then he thinks this is the way he's suppose to make it and the next person who orders the same may not be so nice. IMHO, it would've be better if you showed him the right way to do it and he probably would've appreciated it even more.

[Alchemist]

ludja, I think that is just a sad result of the misconception that a Dry Martini is meant to only have a token amount of vermouth.  Many bartenders say that their default Dry Martini contains no vermouth whartsoever, and yet they will still have a few drinks returned each night with an instruction for "less vermouth."  Part of this is due to the popularization of "extra strong, low vermouth" Martinis from noted boozehounds who were really just trying to increase the alcoholic strength of their tipple.  The rest is likely due to the popularity of tha vodka "Martini," because vodka doesn't play all that well with vermouth and most people prefer a mere whisper of vermouth at most in a "vodka Martini."

These says I'm more likely to go 1:1 with Noilly Pratt and no more than 3:1 if I'm using a soft gin and a strong vermouth like Vya.

←

The reason that martitis are returned because in most bars is not the ratio of vermouth but the age of the vermouth. Vermouth is a WINE. Wine turns to vinager afrter a time. One would never expect to take a bottle of Fume Blanc, that had been sitting unrefrigerated on a shelf for a few months, and have it be potable. Vermouth is delicate. It should be bought in the smallest bottles possible, and kept in the fridge unless you are in the process of making a cocktail. Have you seen the vermouth bottles at Milk and Honey? The are the small, and the martitis are wet there. So you know you are getting crisp, fresh martini. I will never order a Martini or manhattan if I see the vermouth on the back bar with a speed pourer(and usually a thick parka of dust) on it. It is then time to order a bottle of beer and dream lovely Milk & Honey/Flatiron/Pegu/Little Branch/WD 50 dreams, of wet Martinis, hot velvet Manhattans, sublime Blood and Sands, Naughty Negronis, Valliant Valintinos, and butt-kicking Bronx.

[Carlovski]

Back when I was at university (A few years ago now!) my Sister came up to visit me. She took me out for dinner and she ordered a Martini. She expected, as you say a vermouth, but what she got was a full whack Martini. Now my sister (unlike me) is petite and not much of a drinker. We had already had a drink earlier and we also had a little wine.

Net result has my big sister was absolutely hammered.

As someone who was brought up in a pub and has worked in several I'd say in 95% of licensed premises in the UK you are unlikely to get a decent Martini.

In my opinion the things are fairly overrated (Maybe I've never had a good one) and supposedly 'extra dry' ones are nothing but a fancy glass of cold gin. And I like my cold gin with tonic ice and lemon thank you (Fresh tonic, from an individual bottle, Lemon -NOT lime thank you, a large measure of gin, Plymouth for preference or Tanqueray at a push if you are asking).

In fact in most pubs even asking for a Gin will leave them wondering why you have bought your wife a drink but you aren't having one....

[mbanu]

Vermouth is delicate.  It should be bought in the smallest bottles possible, and kept in the fridge unless you are in the process of making a cocktail. 

←

See, to me these are all signs of a poor-quality vermouth. A good vermouth is not only a tasty vermouth, but a durable vermouth. Quick international shipping and constant refrigeration weren't constants back during vermouth's 19th century heyday, afterall. Good vermouth should be fortified to a proper strength, and the wine and botanicals should be processed in such a way that there is no danger from oxidation or contact with light. Hell, if I wanted a "delicate" vermouth, I'd buy a bottle of ordinary wine and stick the herbs in myself.

[DrinkBoy]

Which of course raises the question: so how does one order the gin-and-vermouth concoction from a UK bartender?

←

Having already had the Vermouth/Martini experience on several occasions in London, I thought I'd nip that one in the bud and ordered a "gin martini" once.

The bartender looked at me as if I was speaking a foreign language (Hmmm, guess I was, American :-), and she asked me to repeat... a couple times... then she asked me how to make it...

"Oh!" She exclaimed, "I thought you were saying 'Genie Martin'"...

[stevea]

To stevea who started this thread, I'm not sure you should've told him "you done good" since he didn't.  Then he thinks this is the way he's suppose to make it and the next person who orders the same may not be so nice.  IMHO, it would've be better if you showed him the right way to do it and he probably would've appreciated it even more.

←

Technically, you're right. I should have better educated him, though I did try. However, he was a kid who seemed a bit nervous behind the bar and there were three or four people behind me waiting to place orders. Plus, this was, excuse the expression, a hick bar in a miniscule town in rural, rural, rural Minnesota. They serve beer, rum and coke, and whiskey sours there. He may never be asked for a martini again in his life. So, at the time, I figured praise for the attempt was the better route.

[oneidaone]

Being from the midwest and familiar with such places I imagine lots of "yah hey dere" expressions

and the like. What kind of vodka was this? I like the asking if you were a mailman! When I first met

my husbands' grandfather it was at his home in Neenah WI for lunch, we arrived about 11 after a

long drive up from Milwaukee and the first thing he asked was "want a highball?" and not to offend

him I certainly said yes! You gotta love those small/and/or rural towns that are everywhere!

a hui ho and bottoms up.........