What Would You Change?

[Andrew Morrison]

Have you ever looked around while you're dining and wondered why the place is dead? Is it the design? The menu? The service? High end rooms start to underperform because they often can't see the forest for the trees. A piece of kelp gets attached to their keel and they don't notice the drag it causes until it appears in their ledgers. Often, they are too wrapped up in the immediacy of their FOH/BOH problems to take a customers POV. So, do all the lurking restaurant owners and managers a service by letting fly with your fourteen cents: what would you do to make an existing restaurant better on a budget?

We started with Watermark in another thread...where to now? Dissect your favourite place or one that recently disappointed.

Edited September 8, 2005 by editor@waiterblog (log)

[SBonner]

Wow Andrew.... I can see this thread going way overboard. This egullet crowd is tough when they hate something it goes pear shape really quickly.

Cheers,

Stephen

[Andrew Morrison]

Wow Andrew.... I can see this thread going way overboard. This egullet crowd is tough when they hate something it goes pear shape really quickly.

I considered that, but then I thought it would be better if people qualified their complaints. No manager or restauranteur wants a customer to leave unhappy, but as Canadian diners we tend to veer from confrontation in the moment. Consequently, we rarely call the manager over to say "You know what buddy? This is shit." Instead, we come here to relate our complaints in threads like Truth Be Told, where the emphasis is on singing praises, relating anecdotal experiences, and complaining. A good thread, sure...but I'd be interested to hear something more constructive. No?

Edited September 8, 2005 by editor@waiterblog (log)

[SBonner]

Wow Andrew.... I can see this thread going way overboard. This egullet crowd is tough when they hate something it goes pear shape really quickly.

I considered that, but then I thought it would be better if people qualified their complaints. No manager or restauranteur wants a customer to leave unhappy, but as Canadian diners we tend to veer from confrontation in the moment. Consequently, we rarely call the manager over to say "You know what buddy? This is shit." Instead, we come here to relate our complaints in threads like Truth Be Told, where the emphasis is on singing praises, relating anecdotal experiences, and complaining. A good thread, sure...but I'd be interested to hear something more constructive. No?

←

Andrew,

Looking forward to seeing the comments on this thread. Hopefully some FOH and BOH staff will read this thread and learn from their mistakes...should be a good read

Edited September 8, 2005 by SBonner (log)

[transfattyacid]

yeah .

There is a waterfront place that needs some changing after openning this year.

i went recently to this place , a lovely designed room . great view . so so service . but the food ...... oh boy what are these people thinking ? it was shocking .

The basics of kitchen craft were conspicuous in there abundant absence. over seasoned, misjudged concepts and sloppily executed . to a point where the dishes were not in tune with their setting.

i would change the mentality of the kitchen to a philosophy of trying to please as opposed to trying ( too hard ) to impress.

ps it aint your favourite hate spot !

[canucklehead]

As a general point - why are restaurants so crazy noisy? Many places have no soft surfaces - and the noise seems to reverbarate and build on itself. I have often sat at Chambar and thought if anything could be done within their decor. I absolutely love the place and food - but sometimes conversation is no longer possible.

Maybe it is the cranky old man in me.

[Zucchini Mama]

The Locus (Main and King Edward)

Would someone please convince the owner to paint it anything other than black. The decor-melted candle wax and metal sculptures, oh boy. Please lighten up the decor, lighten up the menu (there's always too many things happening in one dish). It is a black hole that could be something else much more exciting, anything else. I want to support my local joints, but this place is too depressing. I call it the Locust, as in a plague.

I think it's in need of a Queer Eye for the Straight guy makeover. (How can I get those guys to come to my house, by the way? My kitchen needs a QE.)

Thanks for the thread Andrew, I've been chomping at the bit to say this.

Bottoms Up!

Zuke

[wattacetti]

Feenie's crab maki happy face pretty much seals my nomination for this thread.

Noise is one thing I'd expect in a bistro (especially one that's being so heavily marketed) and I was also prepared for ambivalent and/or indifferent service just by scanning the room when I first entered. I didn't expect "stunned into inaction because it's too beautiful to touch" plating for the $14 this plate goes for, but I do think that it should have been better than the "Amateur Night on West Broadway" effort put in by Rob's B Team.

[Memo]

Linty white napkins! Get rid of them.

[kurtisk]

Andrew my friend, this could be a can of worms all right. Are we to assume that anyone who gives a place a public lashing here would've already addressed their concerns to any discussed restaurants and any/all points will be valid and appropriate? Otherwise this seems like a flat-out bitch-fest.

I'm puttin' 10 bucks down that this thread'll implode in 5...4...3...

k.

[wattacetti]

Linty white napkins! Get rid of them.

←

Not a problem at Globe@YVR: they hand out dark napkins for those of us whose clothing color pallets end with black.

[Might I add that this is one Vancouver establishment that has done everything mostly right every time I'm holed up at the airport.]

[mtigges]

Kurtis, we're civil, most of the time. I have two pet peeves, noise and smoking. But, they're sort of the same thing. Thankfully there is no more smoking inside, we've discussed patios before so I won't go into it. I remember though going to Victoria Station (a Keg like steakhouse from years back) when I was a kid and not being able to taste my disgustingly sweet Shirly Temple because there was too much second hand smoke slowly curing my tongue.

As for noise, everybody wants to talk and have a good time so it can be hard to find a balance for room design. The kind of fun people have and thereby the noise they make is partly determined by the ambience of the room, but regardless of the feel of a place the biggest problem with noise is other diners. That sounds obvious, but there are too many people who don't care about the comfort of those around them (hmmm, a common trait with smokers, funny how that works). Rude and disrespectful neighbours whether they are noisy, messy, stinky or smoky is the number one bain of my existence. So since these problems exist at all times not just during dining, is there much to say to restauranteurs? I'm not sure. If I was running a small bistro or restaurant, I would consider asking loud patrons to try to respect the dining experience of those around them. I have never seen it happen that a restaurant asks a particularly boisterous table to try to keep it down? Should they? I can certainly understand why they wouldn't.

[*Deborah*]

Sort of related to mtigges' response is mine: crowded conditions, and tables that are so close together that you can't help bumping your neighbour and/or their table when exiting a banquette, for example. Granted I am not as slender as once I was, but I wouldn't say I am outside the norm of humanity (except perhaps in Yaletown ), and not much except a really skinny date makes me feel as graceless as bumping into furniture when circumnavigating my table.

By the same token, it's not always amusing to have one's eyes at others' immediate...hip level. Unless, presumably, one has paid for the privilege.

[shelora]

I agree with the linty white napkin issue. Nice pair of black pants and I get up to leave and I'm covered with lint. Thanks. Perhaps the hostess could have a link remover brush at the ready.

I would be happy to see some sort of polyester blend napkins replacing the standard ones.

The other thing - have you noticed the small plates concept going a little too far? Small plates, big flavour, great idea. A way to try or share numerous things on a menu and not breaking the budget. I think that was the idea at the beginning.

Now hefty price tags for the main event are getting mixed up with the appetizer/small plate portions and the small plate menu prices are getting out of hand.

[Feedbag]

I'm down with the noise factor, too. And restaurateurs

can't really tell patrons to shut their yaps, but they can

certainly turn down the music. That's my biggest complaint

when it comes to noise, that and the fact they rarely consider

the clientele when choosing the tunes. 50 cent booming to

a 50-plus crowd doesn't go over...

Also hate the too-close tables. Nothing more uncomfortable

than having your neighbours take sides in your private

discussion.

But my biggest peeve right now is re the "small plates".

If they're meant to be shared, why the $#%@! do they

give you FIVE of everything?? How stupid is that? That

last little morsel just sits there staring up at us as we

growl and snap at one another over who gets it. Sheesh,

man, would it break the bank to cough up another prawn?

[easy]

Andrew,

Excellent topic. I'll chime in with a thought or two here.

What is it with restaurants that don't even try! I've been to many places recently that have all the making of a good venue ie. location, view, decor, etc. Then you order something, say an app or a beer and the beer is warm and the app is way sub par.

A surly or unpresentable server can ruin a perfect meal. Why would a restaurant owner have them? I feel service, in Vancouver especially, will win over food and make your customers want to come back. If the kitchen is off, a good server can still win that customer over. If the server is off, good food will not win that customer over. There are far too many good places to go in this city!

[Daddy-A]

Great topic, which surely isn't localized to Vancouver. I'm moving this to General so the rest of the world can take place in the discussion.

A.

[chef koo]

Linty white napkins! Get rid of them.

←

but having them won't necessarily deter business

[James Kendal]

Linty white napkins! Get rid of them.

←

Not a problem at Globe@YVR: they hand out dark napkins for those of us whose clothing color pallets end with black.

[Might I add that this is one Vancouver establishment that has done everything mostly right every time I'm holed up at the airport.]

←

Dark napkins is a Fairmont standard, pain in the but considering everyone wears dark clothes. Why not just have dark napkins.

[James Kendal]

Well,

From my point of view, and believe me I get it left right and center in my position, is the biggest problem with any operation is when the following items are negelected:

1. No ownership in a room

2. Not paying attention to capital projects and upgrades (something we are going through this winter).

3. Not paying attention to small details.

4. Poor management and allowing the staff to run the room with their attitude.

5. Not having a consistent turn over in talent. Some times people get a little long in the tooth and the competitive edge wears thin.

6. Crappy wine list, no thought or reason behind the menu.

7. resting on your awards (biggest mistake and I have seen it in my operation, which is why I was headhunted back from the depths of the corporate operations).

8. Forgetting that the GUEST IS ALWAYS RIGHT.

Whats with the happy face Maki, someone must of been smoking dope that night

[fifi]

What would I change? I will take it that the question means that the restaurant has great food and I would like to go there but I don't because of these issues. I am also assuming that things like loud and obnoxious patrons are something that the restauranteur has limited control over.

Loud music. If I can't talk to the waiter or my companions I am outta there. Actually, even if I have a coveted reservation, and I get there and it is loud, I leave!

Tables shoved together. If I have to try to turn myself into a Gumby to get to the ladie's room I will not be back.

Small table, large serving dishes. How dumb is that? You can't even find room for your wine glass.

Amazingly, there are several restaurants here that have all of these "qualities" and they have a large crowd of masochists. Go figure.

[Daddy-A]

What I don't understand are those establishments that have a "if it's not broken don't fix it" approach. This can apply to food, as well as the room. In the case of a place J & I dined in in Oliver, both applied.

The majority of the meal was fine, but little touches, like cheese "relish" on the lamb (folks really like it our server assured us) seemed to be pointless. Granted, it was my one and only visit, so maybe that's not a fair comment ...

My real issue was the room which looked like it had be decorated once about 15 years ago, and then left. Disclaimer: I get uneasy when our showroom displays are older than 18 months. It was a combination Okanagan, French and English farmhouse, with little 1980's rumpus room touches.

I agree with James ... standing still is a death trap.

A.