Number of guests plummets at last moment.

[Pam R]

Today is Thursday. On Sunday we're catering a wedding. Last week the numbers were confirmed. This afternoon at 5:30 PM we get a phone call from the mother of the groom. The 'kids' miscounted and instead of 200 guests, there are only 170.

Because we're off-premise caterers many things are done in advance. Even if they weren't - most of the food has been purchased. The entree is salmon wrapped in fillo with a lemon sauce and asparagus - they are done and in the freezer - ready to be thawed and cooked. All of the baking is done. The knishes have been made. The other sides are already purchased.

All of the dishes and silverware for the wedding are rented - they will be delivered tomorrow morning - the call today came in too late to change the numbers.

What would you do in this situation? Would you charge them for the full 200? Give them the extra food and call it a day? Would you charge them for 170 and not give them the extra? How about splitting the difference? Charge them for 185?

Thankfully, after 20 years of catering this is the first time this has happened. Yes we've had number change - but for no more than 5 people.

[KatieLoeb]

Today is Thursday.  On Sunday we're catering a wedding.  Last week the numbers were confirmed.  This afternoon at 5:30 PM we get a phone call from the mother of the groom.  The 'kids' miscounted and instead of 200 guests, there are only 170.

Because we're off-premise caterers many things are done in advance.  Even if they weren't - most of the food has been purchased.  The entree is salmon wrapped in fillo with a lemon sauce and asparagus - they are done and in the freezer - ready to be thawed and cooked.  All of the baking is done.  The knishes have been made.  The other sides are already purchased.

All of the dishes and silverware for the wedding are rented - they will be delivered tomorrow morning - the call today came in too late to change the numbers.

What would you do in this situation?  Would you charge them for the full 200?  Give them the extra food and call it a day?  Would you charge them for 170 and not give them the extra?  How about splitting the difference?  Charge them for 185?

Thankfully, after 20 years of catering this is the first time this has happened.  Yes we've had number change - but for no more than 5 people.

←

The numbers were confirmed at 200. Their mistake not yours. Cheerfully pack up the leftovers for them or offer to deliver them to your local foodbank on behalf of the happy couple.

Why on earth should you absorb the cost of their error?? What if there's a last minute Act of God hurricane or storm that closes the airport and only 125 people show up? Should you only charge them for guests that actually show up??

This is why it's catering and not a la carte. And this is precisely why you confirmed their guest count and had them sign a contract, n'est ce pas?

[goldie]

I'm not a caterer, but if I were the customer I'd expect to pay for the 200 and would be thrilled if my caterer came back and split the difference with me. Only do that if the numbers work for you, though, and you can freeze or use the extra food for another job (in other words, don't take a hit on your profits because of their error).

What was the tone of the conversation? Thirty is an awfully big miscount- their numbers are off by 15%. Also, what does the contract say about final numbers? I know my numbers have to be into my caterer well in advance.

Edited to add- By the way, who signed the contract and who is paying the bill? If it is anyone besides the groom's mother then there is no dialogue because you did business with someone else and it would be inappropriate to have numbers conversations with anyone but the person who is paying the bill.

Edited September 2, 2005 by goldie (log)

[TPO]

Why on earth should you absorb the cost of their error??  What if there's a last minute Act of God hurricane or storm that closes the airport and only 125 people show up?  Should you only charge them for guests that actually show up??

←

I am not a caterer, but I worked in customer service for more years than I care to count. If you absorb the cost, you open yourself up to the "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" theory, meaning they could keep trying to change the numbers up until the last minute.

If you do decide to give them a break in price, I would discount the cost of the extra food only and still charge them for the rented equipment.

Also, are you sure the "kids" counted wrong? This could be a situation where Mom put her foot down as to the maximum number of guests and capped it at 170, when really 200 are going to show up because that's how many the bride and groom invited, only there won't be enough food for them. I'd make sure to accept the final number only from the person who signed the contract.

[Tess]

I hope they didn't expect a price break at this late date; that would be really unfair. It's the same amount of money and work for you. In fact, I think if you package up and give them the extra food you're being very nice.

[lesfen]

If you can, I would wait until the event to make a final decision. I know that at my wedding we had 121 "confirmed" guests, but went ahead with our 150 count. Good thing, because we had an extra 20 people that decided to show up without RSVPing... "You were serious about that?" No joke. I would charge them for the 200 and let them take the leftovers. Out-of-town family will still be around the next day and I'm sure that the family will appreciate having the extra food. Nobody wants to have to cook and entertain after a wedding!

[Pam R]

Re: who signed the contract. The people who finalized the number (mom and dad) are the contact people and they are paying. In fact, they've already pretty much paid - almost 95% of the bill.

I really believe that it's not a case of mom putting down her foot regaurding the number of guests. She is the one that confirmed 200 a week ago.

I'm in business with my parents - so we've been depating this. I feel strongly that they should pay for the confirmed #. The food is done, they're paying for it - they can have it (the extras).

My mother's concern is that these are nice people, a mistake has been made, they've been wonderful to work with and she feels that the mother was as in shock as we are. The problem is that giving them a break is obviously going to affect the bottom line. We don't want this catering/wedding to end on a sour note for either party.

As for the rentals - there's nothing that can be done about this. They will have to pay the full amount.

We're leaning towards charging them for the 200 and giving them the food.

[Pam R]

Out-of-town family will still be around the next day and I'm sure that the family will appreciate having the extra food.  Nobody wants to have to cook and entertain after a wedding!

And it's a long weekend - it might be nice for them to have some extra food?

[chezcherie]

maybe for next time--i have in my contract that the (nonrefundable) deposit and final headcount are due 10 days prior to the event. that has saved me several times.

[KatieLoeb]

We're leaning towards charging them for the 200 and giving them the food.

If you charge them for it then it certainly is theirs. You will have to pack up as much of it as is possible and give it to them to cart away.

And if you do cut them a break, what's to say that they won't expect similar treatment next time? I think you just have to put your foot down and say I'm running a business that has a thin profit margin. This is why we confirm guest counts in advance as stated in the contract. Sorry for the inconvenience but this is much too short notice for me to do anything different. I can't think of any caterer in the world that would do it any differently except maybe the Catering Department at Disney World that has dozens of events going on any given weekend and could possibly re-use the food elsewhere.

[joiei]

What Katie said.

[ladyyoung98]

i agree...

they told you 200 people and you have already made allowances for that many people...this is business...its not anything personal....they cant expect to call you at this late date when plans are too far advanced to change them on your end...i see no reason why you should cut them any slack...i do a little bit of catering as well and when im told how many people will be in attendance... that is the number i focus on ...that is th enumber i prepare food for...and there just isnt any way im going to absorb the cost if they got the numbers wrong..but i will pack up what is left and give it to them since they did indeed pay for it...im not going to use it elsewhere as a good many things are not only perishable but also..in reality who on earth is going to order the exact same thing calling for the exact same dish before that food perishes... while one does budget for some loss...i dont beleive one budgets for a loss that great..id say when she gave u the final count of 200 people..and u went with that number....to you that was firm...that did not mean that they could call u back and say..ooops...we miscounted...

and frankly were i the customer..i too would expect to pay for the number id given ..and if there was a miscount..id be saying oh well....i'll just suck it up and be careful next time ..but would accpet the extra food as i do agree with whoever said it..its going to be a long weekend..out of town guests who may stay an extra day or so....hey ya its great not to have to cook and the food was fabulous to begin with..

and lets face it..many times at a wedding ..we often eat somthing we really loved and think..gee i wish i had taken some extra home with me...

[Betts]

Ditto for what Katie said and most of what else was said. You can apologize up one side and down the other but you just have to hold firm at this late date. I have been in a similar spot.

[KatieLoeb]

On second thought to my previous comments, I'll bet Disney has truly iron clad contracts with an iron clad date for guest counts and they probably don't give any slack either, even though they could conceivably use the food for another event!

[Juanito]

are you new at this?

A confirmed number is just that, the number of meals you will provide, and for which the client is to pay.

No way should you absorb the cost. No way. That must be your policy.

This will happen again and again. You might as well set your precedent now.

[TMus1111]

Last weekend my nephew got married at my sister's house. They confirmed 200 with the caterer, but only 185 rsvpd. We never would have considered calling the caterer at the last minute to change the # down - perhaps up if more people rsvpd, but never down. The extra food was packed up (very easy since the wedding was at her home) - and the following day my sister called several of our family members to come by and pick up some food - and she also had plenty to feed her house guests.

[JayBassin]

The numbers were confirmed at 200.  Their mistake not yours.  Cheerfully pack up the leftovers for them or offer to deliver them to your local foodbank on behalf of the happy couple.

←

I agree fully with KatieLoeb: You can even get the foodbank to provide a receipt that you can price for the food, allowing the family to deduct the donation from their taxes. That will ease their pain at no cost to you.

[jgm]

If you have a contract, stick to the terms of the contract. It can cause problems for you if you don't. Sometime when you're talking with your attorney, you might want to bring up the subject and find out what your state's laws say about enforcing contracts -- whether you can do it sometimes and not others, and the implications of giving people a break at times like this.

Human nature being what it is, this same group will pull this again if you let them do it this time.

My wedding was very small, and we had LOTS of cake leftover. The neighbors really enjoyed it. This family can spread the wealth if they want to, but you're not obligated to absorb the cost of their mistake.

I don't know how you would feel about this... but consider the possibility of offering the frozen items to them, uncooked, along with instructions for cooking at a later date. (I'm not in the food biz, so there may be reasons for not doing this that I wouldn't anticipate.) If that would work for you, they might well enjoy a fancy dinner, with almost no effort, in a few weeks.

[lala]

This is why you have a contract with the terms spelled out in advance. It's not your problem that they miscounted, it's theirs.

[Betts]

Assuming the wedding is this weekend - please let us know the end of the story.

[Pam R]

On second thought to my previous comments, I'll bet Disney has truly iron clad contracts with an iron clad date for guest counts and they probably don't give any slack either, even though they could conceivably use the food for another event!

←

It's sad that the happiest place on earth probably isn't all that generous in this area .

Thanks for all your thoughts.

I asked the question mostly to get feedback - to see what other people in this situation do and what customers might think. In reality - the options really are limited. The bottom line dictates the answer - we can't take a loss on this.

As I said earlier - we have been in business catering large functions (by large I mean 200 - 1300 sit-down) for over 20 years. This is the first time the numbers have changed so drastically so close to the function date. When it's out by a few people, it's not a big deal.

Issues of whether these people would abuse any generousity on our part I believe are irrelevant. We know them - they are lovely ... and this is their only child's wedding .

I like the idea of giving them whatever extra foods we can frozen/raw. With instructions on how to cook it they won't be stuck eating the same meal two nights in a row if they don't want to. Making a food donation is nice as well. This is an option that the bride, groom and their families can decide on.

In the end, I think it's that we feel a great deal of rachmonis (compassion, empathy) for these people. They didn't plan this - and it's a mistake that will cost them a lot of money. If it was something that we could absorb in order to help them we would like to. But this is real life - and as you've all pointed out - there is a signed contract - and we can't take the hit. But the rachmonis is still there.

[KatieLoeb]

Making a food donation is nice as well. This is an option that the bride, groom and their families can decide on.

Several years ago I worked for a caterer here in Philly that got the job of catering the wedding of one of the Kennedy sons to the local heiress to an automotive fortune. There were around 350 guests and the wedding took place at a local mansion on the banks of the Delaware River. There was much talk about the costs that day, between the food, the tens of thousands of dollars worth of flowers, the very expensive famous orchestra that provided the music, the real silverware and the Waterford crystal adorning the tables, and especially the brides gown, which apparently cost around $15,000 at that time. And it was really ugly too. Plain and boring and not terribly decorated in any way, and worse, not terribly flattering on the bride. If you spend that much money on a dress I think an entire convent of sequestered nuns needs to have gone blind hand sewing the beads and sequins on at least. But I digress....

I was so flabberghasted at the egregious level of conspicuous consumption that I wanted to vomit. This girl was a debutante from a prominent family. I'd think any designer would have donated a dress to her just to get the picture in Town & Country magazine. The couple could certainly have made a donation to a local charity in a generous amount on the occasion of starting their new lives together, instead of spending this ridiculous sum on an ugly dress she was only going to wear ONCE!!! How silly.

Those of us that work in the food industry see enormous amounts of waste. I'm a huge supporter of organizations like Share Our Strength or locally here in Philly, a group called Philabundance, that takes all those leftovers from caterers and restaurants and food vendors and channels it to shelters and soup kitchens where it can do the most good. I'd rather save it from going into the trash in the first place than think about some poor homeless person digging it out of the trash to eat it. :shudder:

My long and convoluted story ends with a plea that you suggest to the bride and groom that no gesture could be a better start to their marriage than to donate their leftovers to a good cause. What better way to begin their new life together than with an act of charity toward those less fortunate than they?

[Daniel Rogov]

Pam, Hi.....

First of all, let's keep in mind that no matter how much you adore food, its preparation, its serving and even your clients, catering is a business and not a non-profit charity.

Move away from catering for a moment and think of a restaurant. Say a couple enters and orders a family-sized pizza and then decides that they only want to eat half of it. As a restaurateur you would not, no matter how gentle a spirit you might be, even dream of billing them only half-price. You might, of course suggest wrapping the left-overs so that they could take them home.

Sorry but no question really on this one. Food has been prepared, trucking arrangements have been made, glasses and plates have been packed, etc. Your labor costs drop not one cent, nor do your food costs. They ordered it, they pay for it. That you would offer the remaining food well packed and ready for either long or short-term storage is, of course part of the game, but a discount - no way!

And that from a critic who writes about such things and would consider such a caterer a very bad business person indeed if they discounted after all of the preparations have been made.

[joiei]

again, what both Katie and Daniel said.

[Pam R]

And that from a critic who writes about such things and would consider such a caterer a very bad business person indeed if they discounted after all of the preparations have been made.

←

Daniel – hi. Please excuse any repetition from my previous posts.

Don’t be so quick to judge based on one incident – or really just a musing, a request for opinions - rather than any action being taken. As you are a food critic, you know that food establishments come and go rather quickly. A poorly run food business would not be successful more than 20 years into it.

I’d like everybody to look at the situation from another point of view. You are looking at this as a single catered event and think it’s poor business acumen to figure out how to make this work best for both the hosts and ourselves.

Our company has thrived because we aim to make the weddings and other events in people’s lives as enjoyable as possible. This is why we have catered weddings for people and then gone on to cater brises and baby namings for them when they have children. I can’t tell you how many bar and bat mitzvahs we’ve catered for the children of the weddings we’ve done. They call on us for holiday meals, funerals, shivas, unveilings, parties and corporate events. When we work with people on something as important to them as a wedding, relationships are established and they call us for many of their life cycle events.

As I’ve said a couple of times now, we are not going to take a loss on something. This does not mean that I can’t muse about options that will make it more palatable for the customer. As we all know, happy customers are repeat customers. Unhappy customers tell everybody they know just how unhappy they are.

Hopefully the fabulous pre-wedding dinner we did for them on Saturday and the beautiful wedding last night and all of their satisfied and happy guests will override any issues they have. I think that they really know that it was too late in the day to do anything about the numbers.

Thanks for confirming and validating what our initial response to the situation was. Fortunately it’s a situation we rarely (never) find ourselves in.