Ze Kitchen Galerie - the good and the bad

[John Talbott]

As for tastes conditioned by classical European cuisine, I'm not so sure how important that is, or rather in what ways it is important.

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This probably merits a whole new thread, but I cannot refrain from telling y'all that the issue of what's traditional French is now vexing the Michelin folks as well as they launch their NYC and Japanese versions, if my spies are accurate. How does someone (I know - they say their reviewers will all be native) used to French cuisine rate Juniors as an example?

Illustrative Story: So many years ago you don't want to know, we were blind tasting bubblies before our (first and only) wedding and all six tasters liked certain bottles and without prompting said they were Moet or Veuve Clicquot. Punch line: the winner was Macy's non-vintage Red Star (Again, I know, Macy's stuff was indeed bottled by others). Point: We are creatures of habit, culture, experience and training.

[John Whiting]

  Point: We are creatures of habit, culture, experience and training.

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And that's the point that should never be forgotten. One may be an "expert" in that one is able to identify and evaluate relative to an established norm; but the best advice takes the form of, "I like this for the following reasons. If you think that it may be to your taste, I suggest that you try it."

[Bux]

...I'm still unpleased by what some try to pass as "fusion."

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So am I, but historically, fusion cuisine is the only kind there is. When the time scale is slow enough, we scarcely notice. The evidence is in my Oxford Food Symposium paper.

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Substitute "food" for "fusion" and my sentence loses nothing in meaning.

[John Whiting]

I had forgotten that there was a Kitchen Galerie thread a couple of years ago. This month I finally got around to experiencing it. I had also forgotten that some of the Paris regulars seem to have responded as negatively as we did--all three of us--so I trust that it will not be taken as overly contentious if I link to my review.

[molto e]

I had forgotten that there was a Kitchen Galerie thread a couple of years ago. This month I finally got around to experiencing it. I had also forgotten that some of the Paris regulars seem to have responded as negatively as we did--all three of us--so I trust that it will not be taken as overly contentious if I link to my review.

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John,

Long time no speak...since my experience at ZKG, I have seen it mentioned positively a number of times and wonder how? To be fair, I only tried it once and there is such a thing as an off night, but the memories linger nonetheless.

Molto E

[John Talbott]

I had forgotten that there was a Kitchen Galerie thread a couple of years ago. This month I finally got around to experiencing it. I had also forgotten that some of the Paris regulars seem to have responded as negatively as we did--all three of us--so I trust that it will not be taken as overly contentious if I link to my review.

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John, Long time no speak...since my experience at ZKG, I have seen it mentioned positively a number of times and wonder how? To be fair, I only tried it once and there is such a thing as an off night, but the memories linger nonetheless.

Molto E

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I too have already spoken my piece upthread and continue to go to Ze every three months when Colette's in town. The negative reports just don't compute with my dozen plus experiences. But then maybe this is an example of the old Will Rogers quote about differences of opinion making a horse race.

[John Whiting]

John T has rightly pointed out to me that postings should not consist of mere referrals to another website. (What I intended as modesty might well be taken as blatant self-promotion. ) Accordingly, here is the nub of my criticism, minus the rhetoric:

When our dishes started to arrive, the “kitchen galerie” conceit became self-explanatory. Each was a carefully composed visual structure—it was like edible Andy Goldsworthy! My colorful dish of mackerel promised a culinary forte but in the mouth, alas, it was a bland pianissimo….Mary found her soup pleasant enough but not as exciting as it looked; the pattern would repeat itself.

My photogenic squid and octopus proved to be virtually inedible. I’ve encountered tough overcooked calamari in cheap Greek restaurants, but this was like chewing strips of rubber tire. For variety and color, there were a few short lengths of stringy leek. Once again, the green apple and turmeric sauce was so bland as to provide small compensation for the masticatory gymnastics. Even Lewis Caroll’s Father William would have found it tough going.

Mary and Frank’s “Grilled” Vegetables & Wok with Herbs Juice (the wok was not forthcoming but it would have been almost as easy to chew as my recalcitrant cephalopods) were another pair of sculptures only marginally related to hunger. They consisted of a few green vegetables together with a cooked (!) radish, a baby carrot and a tiny turnip—scant carbs, no protein. For a main course costing 25€ (only 3.50€ less than the lamb), one might even  call it a rip-off.

Mary, curious about the desserts, opted for the “Glanduja” (hazelnut) chocolate on the grounds that it was likely to be the most substantial. It proved to be a little meringue mushroom surmounting a crunchy melange of chocolate, nougat, glace coco and unchewable little nuggets of indeterminate origin. It was super-sweet comfort food, very like a Mars ice cream bar.

EDIT: John, remembering your canny habit of going for up-market lunches rather than dinners, I can imagine that my response to ZKG might have been more generous if we had paid half-price. But those impregnable calamari...

I should also add that John's recommendations of Les Fines Gueules, L'Ourcine and La Cerisaie led to some fine meals which I have tried to do justice to.

Edited May 23, 2007 by John Whiting (log)

[John Talbott]

I think even I’m becoming tired of hearing myself rave about Ze Kitchen Galerie on this and other topics, but it’s impossible not to.

Today, for instance, we had another magnificent meal* at which we were astonished by several new dishes (such as salmon and octopus sashimi-sized bits, lentil soup with chestnuts and mushrooms, veal raviolis with a sweet-sour Thai soup of ginger, cilantro and other herbs*, almost raw in the middle but toasty on the outside scallops on a stalk of lemon grass with citron caviar, daurade with a caper sauce, roasted figs and roasted mango, both with ice cream) as well as an old favorite for dessert - the intense, almost-fudgey “cappuccino,*” but we were also overwhelmed by the pureed and tiny grilled and warm and half-cooked fall vegetables from zucchini squash to pumpkin and pepper, etc.

*Under the disclosure portion of our volunteers’ ethics’ policy, I should mention that while I have never asked to be comp’d for a meal, I do accept comp’d items on subsequent visits after I’ve reviewed a place, when to refuse such would be both churlish and unadventuresome (eg Inaki Aizpitarte’s shrimp). In today’s case, we were treated to coupes de champagne, raviolis with soup and the “cappuccinos.”

P.S. The service again, for us, was exemplary.

Edited by John Talbott to add link to other topic on Ze.

Edited October 16, 2007 by John Talbott (log)

[Frege]

After last night's disappointment at Pierre Gagnaire - see my earlier post - tonight it was on to one of JT's favorites - Ze Kitchen Galerie. In many ways, although more modest in its aspirations, or perhaps because of that, it was a more successful meal. Here are some reactions upon my return home.

Ambiance: Way too noisy, but otherwise pleasant modern room.

Service: Amateurish. You're supposed to write down who has ordered what, not ask the customers when you bring the food to the table.

Food. Given what it was trying to accomplish, I thought it was very good indeed. Since there were four of us we were able to taste a wide range of the offerings, and none failed. The scallop and Bullot with lemongrass was very good, especially the sashimi scallop, the duck ravioli was the best of the starters, and the macaroni with spider crab was not far behind, although the pasta was a tad too al dente. The mains were an excellent citrus flavored lotte, lamb, chicken and very succulent ris de veau and a special of suckling pig. All very tasty, definitely one of the better attempts at fusion I've had.

Having said this, my thought upon leaving was: Although the food was very good indeed, why did I need to travel to Paris to have this? It is a testament to the standard of internationalization of food that this restaurant could have been in New York, Los Angeles, London or a number of other cities around the world; things have changed in the culinary world, and restaurants like this are examples of the result. The food is great, but there is little identification with their locale, or as wine folks would say, their terroir.

In contrast, restaurants like Gagnaire, with its faults, are distinctively of their place. I adore the French Laundry/Per Se, Jean-Georges, etc, but I will still travel to Paris to eat at the ilk of Gagnaire, Savoy, etc, etc. (although I have not, and doubt I ever will, experience Savoy or Robuchon in Las Vegas - if I die without setting foot in that place again, I'll go a happy man!) Paris over time will perhaps slip in to being another great city to eat, but no longer the pinnacle, but on a par with New York, San Francisco, Chicago, London and other places.

Just some thoughts . . .

[Margaret Pilgrim]

You introduce some interesting points, one of which is the difference between destination dining and travel dining.

[pierre45]

After last night's disappointment at Pierre Gagnaire - see my earlier post - tonight it was on to one of JT's favorites - Ze Kitchen Galerie.  In many ways, although more modest in its aspirations, or perhaps because of that, it was a more successful meal.  Here are some reactions upon my return home.

Ambiance:  Way too noisy, but otherwise pleasant modern room. 

Service:  Amateurish.  You're supposed to write down who has ordered what, not ask the customers when you bring the food to the table.

Food.  Given what it was trying to accomplish, I thought it was very good indeed.  Since there were four of us we were able to taste a wide range of the offerings, and none failed.  The scallop and Bullot with lemongrass was very good, especially the sashimi scallop, the duck ravioli was the best of the starters, and the macaroni with spider crab was not far behind, although the pasta was a tad too al dente.  The mains were an excellent citrus flavored lotte, lamb, chicken and very succulent ris de veau and a special of suckling pig.  All very tasty, definitely one of the better attempts at fusion I've had.

Having said this, my thought upon leaving was: Although the food was very good indeed, why did I need to travel to Paris to have this? It is a testament to the standard of internationalization of food that this restaurant could have been in New York, Los Angeles, London or a number of other cities around the world; things have changed in the culinary world, and restaurants like this are examples of the result.  The food is great, but there is little identification with their locale, or as wine folks would say, their terroir.

In contrast, restaurants like Gagnaire, with its faults, are distinctively of their place.  I adore the French Laundry/Per Se, Jean-Georges, etc, but I will still travel to Paris to eat at the ilk of Gagnaire, Savoy, etc, etc.  (although I have not, and doubt I ever will, experience Savoy or Robuchon in Las Vegas - if I die without setting foot in that place again, I'll go a happy man!)  Paris over time will perhaps slip in to being another great city to eat, but no longer the pinnacle, but on a par with New York, San Francisco, Chicago, London and other places. 

Just some thoughts . . .

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You seem to echo my reaction when i ate at ZE Kitchen a few years ago.Namely that it could have been in NY .However I was going to try it again as I respect JT"s opinion and I was hoping that perhaps there is less of that international feeling.

[PhilD]

After last night's disappointment at Pierre Gagnaire - see my earlier post - tonight it was on to one of JT's favorites - Ze Kitchen Galerie.  In many ways, although more modest in its aspirations, or perhaps because of that, it was a more successful meal.  Here are some reactions upon my return home.

Ambiance:  Way too noisy, but otherwise pleasant modern room. 

Service:  Amateurish.  You're supposed to write down who has ordered what, not ask the customers when you bring the food to the table.

Food.  Given what it was trying to accomplish, I thought it was very good indeed.  Since there were four of us we were able to taste a wide range of the offerings, and none failed.  The scallop and Bullot with lemongrass was very good, especially the sashimi scallop, the duck ravioli was the best of the starters, and the macaroni with spider crab was not far behind, although the pasta was a tad too al dente.  The mains were an excellent citrus flavored lotte, lamb, chicken and very succulent ris de veau and a special of suckling pig.  All very tasty, definitely one of the better attempts at fusion I've had.

Having said this, my thought upon leaving was: Although the food was very good indeed, why did I need to travel to Paris to have this? It is a testament to the standard of internationalization of food that this restaurant could have been in New York, Los Angeles, London or a number of other cities around the world; things have changed in the culinary world, and restaurants like this are examples of the result.  The food is great, but there is little identification with their locale, or as wine folks would say, their terroir.

In contrast, restaurants like Gagnaire, with its faults, are distinctively of their place.  I adore the French Laundry/Per Se, Jean-Georges, etc, but I will still travel to Paris to eat at the ilk of Gagnaire, Savoy, etc, etc.  (although I have not, and doubt I ever will, experience Savoy or Robuchon in Las Vegas - if I die without setting foot in that place again, I'll go a happy man!)  Paris over time will perhaps slip in to being another great city to eat, but no longer the pinnacle, but on a par with New York, San Francisco, Chicago, London and other places. 

Just some thoughts . . .

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I agree about the room. Service was OK. But I disagree about the food, on my visit we found it to be very average.

The room reminds me of a chain hotel (was it/is it part of the Citadines hotel next door?), it lacked character and was quite sterile. Pleasant in an anonymous way, and no I don't expect a Parisaian salon, because I would find the room poor in any major city.

I am intrigued by others opinion of the food. So many people say it is great and many rave about ot on this and other boards. I admit we visited it over 18 months ago so maybe it has changed. Maybe I need to revisit to see if it has...? But part of me wonders whether it is well thought of purely because it is different?

Paris is the home of traditionalism and classism, I loved the food when I lived there but really missed the variety you get in other cities. We hankered after different flavours and tastes. OK ZKG does provides this. However we moved to Paris from Sydney were this style of food is fairly common, so maybe it simply didn't measure up when compared to that type of yardstick. ZKG excites the tastebuds of those rooted in the Parisian/French way, but fails to stimulate people like me.

I also wonder if this is why it won its Michein star. The French inspectors were wowed by the difference and didn't have a good referece point to measure, maybe the same was true of the star for Chamarre in the 7eme (since closed?), and a bit like the British inspectors and their strange assessment of London Indian restaurants.

Edited April 8, 2008 by PhilD (log)

[olivier]

Paris is the home of traditionalism and classism, I loved the food when I lived there but really missed the variety you get in other cities. We hankered after different flavours and tastes. OK ZKG does provides this. However we moved to Paris from Sydney were this style of food is fairly common, so maybe it simply didn't measure up when compared to that type of yardstick. ZKG excites the tastebuds of those rooted in the Parisian/French way, but fails to stimulate people like me.

This sums up my take on ZKG pretty well!

Granted, the food is very good on most dishes (thanks to good products and cooking), but I couldn't help being a little bit disappointed. Probably because I had high expectations, and it seemed like what I thought would be "innovative" summed up to a quasi-systematic use of lemongrass, actually.

I'm quite used to eating excellent south-eastern Asian food, so I wasn't impressed by anything else than the "good products, good cooking" part and, in my opinion, there are restaurants that offer products/cooking that are at least as good (maybe even better!) at a lower price range, albeit without the exotic influences (ie. I'd rather go to La Régalade than ZKG, even if it were the same price).

Don't get me wrong, though, I would recommend it to people who I know like that kind of food, but haven't got the chance to taste those flavors very often.

[John Talbott]

Four of us went* for our umpteenth visit to Ze and were just as happy as always; the place was even livelier than usual with M. Ledeuil two kids and a stagiere from Philadelphia helping serve and Madame in the salle eating. I don't know how he does it; always coming up with several fresh, interesting and inventive new dishes. For starters we had the marinated pulpo and eggplant with Sicilian mozzarella (barrata) and for mains two orders each of the pigeon and rabbit. In between he sent out portions of chicken and shrip raviolis that had great spicy herbs inside, sitting in a bed of spicy bouillon. We finished up with one portion of mango "cappuccino." The bill was 192.40 Euros.

*Our last meal was June 25th, 2008; paid for except for the raviolis and coffee.

[John Talbott]

The magic at William Ledeuil’s Ze Kitchen Galerie in the 6th goes on. I don’t know how he does it but he is constantly moving, changing, inventing, trying, impressing. One never knows exactly what you’ll get but it’s always good. Along the way we had/shared a gazpacho of green zebra tomato and mussels with marinated cod, raviolis of rabbit with ginger and spicy yellow peppers, girolles in a 10 times better than “Campbell’s-mushroom-soup” base with baby artichokes and lemon grass and a “croquette” of snails with parsley (offered), Challan duck on beet sauce with veggies and a piece of foie gras covered with a “toadstool”, lacquered pork with veggies (it should be mentioned that the vegetables are Thiebault/Passard quality, al dente, perfect and not trumpeted), mostarda and a crème anglaise-like corn, soy and miso sauce, confiture and Torrone ice cream. The bill with all this, 1 bottle of fine Madiran, 2 coffees = 103.10 €; how does he do it?