eG Foodblog: akwa - Shaolin style gastronomy

[akwa]

for dinner i had a guiness

←

I see your stream of consciousness is still at work. Some believe that Guinness is good for lactating mothers.

On the toilet deprivation issue, I feel we need some more detail. Do you intend doing this in your own house? And do you intend taking the process through to its logical conclusion and caring for the 'infants' yourself? If you transport the minds of your diners back to infancy by evoking warm memories, do you believe that you have a responsibility to support them while they are in this state? If they are visiting infacts, I suggest that this is the time to return them to their parents.

One area you haven't explored is the reflux action of the baby after eating. Is there some way that the reinfantised diners can be winded? Should they be asked to spit out a lactic foam to simulate the enjoyment of that release?

←

guiness helps to produce vitamin b.

regards responsibility, excellent question. correct response regarding visitors.

regards wind, burping used to be considered a tableside compliment.

[Carrot Top]

Organisation (avant tous choses)

In what way demonstrate civilization

It was Cheong that taught me that cooking is a measure of civilization.  Why the plate.  What is the relationship.  Where do ideas come from.  These are the questions I began to ask while still at El Bulli.  And for me that answer comes from cleanliness and organization, not godliness.

Some say that cleanliness is next to godliness. And organization must surely follow after cleanliness in that line of thought.

Yet chaos has some part in this thing too, the thing of ideas and certainly in the thing of demonstrating civilization.

One wonders whether cleanliness could exist without the opposing chaos.

I like the idea of a beautiful cleanliness and a nicely-tied up organization (such as in the study of Logic) that is well informed by the ultimately encompassing reality of chaos. Chaos is the world, really, and things that are created without a hint of its power, a sense of its power underlying the created thing (whether it be a piece de resistance of a pastry for dessert or whether it be a pure idea). . .that thing will have a sense of flatness about it, won't it.

[akwa]

Organisation (avant tous choses)

In what way demonstrate civilization

It was Cheong that taught me that cooking is a measure of civilization.  Why the plate.  What is the relationship.  Where do ideas come from.  These are the questions I began to ask while still at El Bulli.  And for me that answer comes from cleanliness and organization, not godliness.

Some say that cleanliness is next to godliness. And organization must surely follow after cleanliness in that line of thought.

Yet chaos has some part in this thing too, the thing of ideas and certainly in the thing of demonstrating civilization.

One wonders whether cleanliness could exist without the opposing chaos.

I like the idea of a beautiful cleanliness and a nicely-tied up organization (such as in the study of Logic) that is well informed by the ultimately encompassing reality of chaos. Chaos is the world, really, and things that are created without a hint of its power, a sense of its power underlying the created thing (whether it be a piece de resistance of a pastry for dessert or whether it be a pure idea). . .that thing will have a sense of flatness about it, won't it.

←

imho you are perfectly correct

i see no inherent contradiction between chaos and order

on the contrary they are partners in crime

i just see them as two points of the same curved axis, the perception varies according to time, space, taste, etc.

perhaps its possible to ignore chaos as a principal element in the discussion only because I take it for granted that all of the initial rules are determined without control, all the variables are naturally chaotic

my daughter had milk for lunch

[Carrot Top]

no

pure conceptual art

for sale

with social relevance and meaning

Yes, I can see how that could be done. And is done sometimes in ways.

It raises the question of what audience will understand or appreciate this, though.

When I think of the patron with deep pockets and an urge to eat art whether that art be a dish, a painting or an idea. . .it is very clear that it could be done. Your viewpoint on making a rich person "feel better" about themselves can enter into this, too. An addition to the ways of creativity that humans can enjoy, if they are prone to wanting to enjoy.

When I think of the Brazilians that are not even on the bus it takes a different shape. But of course from hunger they make their own conceptual art through daily imaginings just to stay sane and not driven mad by need. Those who know of different things, of course. Some may not know of different things so may not feel hunger for more than what it is they have.

............................................................................

There are many stories of people that were held in concentration camps who while starving would animatedly converse about meals past, of dishes consumed, of recipes in their families and ingredient lists. It gave them succor and courage to survive.

Edited August 16, 2005 by Carrot Top (log)

[Carrot Top]

my daughter had milk for lunch

She is no doubt an excellent and beautiful muse.

And one that you will love forever.

........................................................

Ooh! And won't she have fun playing with her food!

[skye]

My work for desserts has always been somewhat problematic in the same way this forum may be; my ideas are not adequately described in a way that makes them commercially viable.  It is possible that "conceptual" food is just not sellable, but I am confident in the public's ability to make a decision if given any relevant information.

Conceptual...commercially viable...does it taste good? If you love making it, and it tastes good, people will buy it. But they might not "get" it. They might not want to get it. They might just want to eat something yummy. And that's okay, right? If not, maybe sculpture, or painting. I've always liked Andy Goldsworthy because his art is like cooking-it's consumed almost as soon as it's created. Nothing remains, but impressions.

As for axes, what about struggle? The noble struggle, which gives us purpose by implying that we may hope for acheivement. I also think that struggle is a key emblem in infancy. Struggle, triumph, more struggle...growing every day. Good cooks are like that-they don't ever want to see the top of that learning curve, or they'll stop growing up.

[akwa]

for lunch today i had a large latte without sugar from Irving Coffee Growers

I must say it is a fine example of a latte

what it cried out for was a chocolate

Much has been written about the history of chocolate. Interestingly, little in popular culture focuses on the irony of chocolates role as a sensual star versus its history as a product of colonial exploitation. We are not going to begin that dialogue in these pages, as it is worthy of an entire anthropological study. Suffice it to say that chocolate has a rich history as the food of kings, has played an important role in world trade for centuries, has established itself consistently as a luxury treasure, and is remarkable even for its nutritive powers, and is currently in vogue for its smoothing effects on the skin. In short, one of the most remarkable products in the world.

A fine mess of dry extract of cocoa bean, sugar, cocoa butter, and perhaps lecithin and less often vanilla. The most intimate relationship with chocolate can be obtained by participating in the fabrication. Having the ability to influence the picking, roasting, and maturing of the beans before processing is an incredible luxury. For this reason it is always desirable to contact small chocolate manufacturers. However, as this is not always practical or cost effective, it is important to be comfortable with mass market chocolates. I prefer Barry for taste neutral applications, Michel Cluizel for texture, and Plantations for flavor.

It is likely that sustainable farming cooperatives forming public private partnerships with chocolate refiners will be influential over the next century. The relationship between the two is more intricate and complicated that in previous centuries, as both the growers are increasingly sophisticated, and the producers are increasingly reliant on skilled sources to generate a superior distinctive product.

[akwa]

For afternoon snack today I had one fried chicken thigh, a small piece of corn bread and a glass of water. This was the first solid food of the day.

[Arey]

I really don't understand a word he's been saying. It's like e catechism class when they were explaining transubstantiation or like the physics class in my senior year of high school when it was all downhill after the 2nd law of thermodynamics. I'm going to log out now, and go listen to some Bach or Haydn or Mozart. As the divine Mozart said in one of his letters about people like me "they'll like it, but they won't know why"

[akwa]

I really don't understand a word he's been saying. It's like e catechism class when they were explaining transubstantiation or like the physics class in my senior year of high school when it was all downhill after the 2nd law of thermodynamics. I'm going to log out now, and go listen to some Bach or Haydn or Mozart. As the divine Mozart said in one of his letters about people like me "they'll like it, but they won't know why"

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ill take that as a complement

at the end of the day happy people equals success

[akwa]

i just finished dinner at otto

my table which was celebrating my middle brothers twenty eighth birthday shared

all of the meats

all of the cheeses

all of the fishes

three different olives

duck prosciutto

corn sformato

meatball pizza

taleggio and mushroom pizza

another pizza

a divine peppery carbonara

and a naughty puttanesca

before we were treated to an olive oil coppetta

with all due respect despite and because of the uproar surrounding its opening i avoided otto for quite some time

but i learned that my friend zach was the responsible of the kitchen and i make a point of paying respect to my colleagues

i met zach in the summer of ninety seven in a youth hostel in paris

i was avoiding law school and waiting for an intensive pastry class and trying to learn french and just in general in awe of the awesome responsibility of not being in the school system. on my own on the road

i hit europe by storm and train and disembarked in paris without contacts

shortly thereafter i found a reluctant pastry chef who agreed to correct my mistakes if i would cover his vacation

after reading wine spectators review of the michelin three stars i had my sites set on gagnaire but when i arrived at the door with my french dictionary the maitre d had another suggestion

try guy savoy

but enough about me. zach was a fresh faced student from that big cooking school with an outpost in dc on an exchange to paris and ill never forget his devoted love to sauce americain

if i had the memory to quote him i would but believe me the passion for enriched lobster bisque was awesome

and thats where it all began

[tan319]

I really don't understand a word he's been saying. It's like e catechism class when they were explaining transubstantiation or like the physics class in my senior year of high school when it was all downhill after the 2nd law of thermodynamics. I'm going to log out now, and go listen to some Bach or Haydn or Mozart. As the divine Mozart said in one of his letters about people like me "they'll like it, but they won't know why"

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As an aside, off topic, as it were...

Why say something like the above ???

Don't mean to be rude but, akwa is going to read it anyways, did read it, why not say, "I don't understand a word you're saying"?

Another one of those "net" things I abhor.

I enjoyed the travelogue, Will.

Was that the Brazilian trip with no refrigeration?

What was for dessert at Otto?

Been hearing about some great Olive Oil gelatto

[Behemoth]

I really don't understand a word he's been saying. It's like e catechism class when they were explaining transubstantiation or like the physics class in my senior year of high school when it was all downhill after the 2nd law of thermodynamics. I'm going to log out now, and go listen to some Bach or Haydn or Mozart. As the divine Mozart said in one of his letters about people like me "they'll like it, but they won't know why"

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A movement is accomplished in six stages, and the seventh brings return.

[Adam Balic]

In a few other discussions here, John Whiting and I have commented that haute cuisine in general is baby-food-like. I remember a meal at Arpege where the first several courses all had the consistency of baby food, and haute cuisine has traditionally favored soft foods like filet mignon over totally superior-tasting but more-difficult-to-masticate foods like brisket. This probably traces back, at least in part, to the pre-modern era of non-dental-care, wherein you were lucky to have teeth (or even be alive) after age thirty and therefore soft foods were a luxury: the infancy of old age reasserted itself much earlier. But you also see it in traits like the national French aversion to spicy foods.

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this is a very interesting point regarding the origins of baby type food

i think this also stems from a particular type of luxury concept where the act of work or acts of work are banished from the table

small portions, easy to digest flavors, over service all have indicated great luxury and excess

i dont think we should confuse luxury and profundity, nor should we disregard the history of gastronomy. it is essential to our understanding

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I wonder if this means that the English previously had superior teeth in comparison to the French, given their historical preference for large cuts of beef, rather then sauced bits? Potentially the lack of a fork in the pre-modern era contributed to the choice of food texture as well.

[akwa]

i have to return to work early

without breakfast

and so

monsieurs madames

bon soir

[Carrot Top]

My own personal understanding of foods that are planned to be placed on the tables of the very wealthy, which stems from having been chef then executive chef for the very wealthy, is that the food needs to be very easily eaten. I am not sure if that came from one group or another having better teeth to chow down with in history or not. . .but I am quite sure that it has something to do, both past and present, with shaping the dining experience into a certain form.

It is partly about luxury, in the way that it is apparent that everything cost a great deal and that no expense was spared. The words and the way of "Haute Cuisine" is one way of defining that. . .and it usually is true that though at times the exact style can change into "peasant" food, that "peasant" food is then purposely morphed by the chef into things that can be chewed easily. And the more basic sauces that were in the original dish are enriched for deeper taste and softer texture.

The point is not just the flavor. The point is to be able to sit at table and eat, or rather dine, in a way that will minimize the effect of any messy realities of the food intruding upon the meal. There should be no bones to stuggle with while cutting a piece of meat, chicken or fish. . .there should be no bits of vegetable to struggle with. . .there should be no sauce that is drippable. . .and it is even further better if nothing has to be cut with knife and fork. The best idea for a meal was to have it be transportable from plate to mouth without muss and fuss. . .with nothing but enjoyment in the act. As akwa said, removing the work from the table.

This in turn sets a tone, a tone that has freed the diner from the usual sorts of responsibilities that a person has when eating. It allows them not only the luxury of the finest and most expensive things in the food area that have then been perfected, distilled, intensified for their pleasure, but also the luxury of eating them without attention being paid to them in a certain way. They can be taken for granted, they are there. One might consider this to be a sociological ploy in terms of class definitions. One might also consider this to be psychological ploy in terms of freeing oneself up for what often happens at the tables of the very wealthy. . .business. . .in one form or another.

More often than the rest of us, the very wealthy have to attend to business. They do it at lunch, they do it at dinner. They do it in the expensive restaurants of the world that everyone else wants to go to just to "eat". They are there as much because it is a theatre. . . where they gather to do their business and the co-socializing that is neccesary for the business.

In the past, I would imagine that the business took the form more of arranging marriages and alliances rather than discussing who was going to buy whose corporation and whether they were going to do it before or after the bankruptcy.

But back to the food. The worst thing one can do when trying to win a business deal is to screw up by showing stuggle with cutting up a piece of chicken. It puts one at a disadvantage.

Therefore the nursery food and the very attentive care to each and every detail. It is not only to make the food look good. It is to make the people who eat it look good. (And in my own personal philosophy, why not? Isn't the table about generosity? Or if it isn't, it should be.)

Admittedly there were times that I joked that it might make everyone happier if I just chewed the food up for them so they wouldn't have to do that, either.

There is definitely a lot of work in removing the work from the table.

..................................................................................

In opposition to this, the food of the poor is often difficult to eat. Several days ago I was in a Vietnamese noodle shop in Florida. They had pigs feet in a ginger-vinegar sauce. I don't make pigs feet often because I can't find anyone who will eat them with me so I ordered them. . .ahhh. Delicious. But. Let me assure you that the act of trying to eat chopped up portions of pigs feet still dangling from the bone in a soupy broth in public is NOT an easy nor an elegant act.

That dish will not make it to the tables of the very wealthy without being drastically

tweaked.

.....................................................................................

Again, as far as "understanding" akwa goes. . .my impression is that he has something to say that is intensely philosophic. And in this forum of the blog, the audience (if you will), has developed expectations of "how it will be". There is an expectation of photos, of descriptions of food, of "how this was done". This is natural for this is how it usually has been here.

akwa is doing it differently. It requires close reading, if you care to.

Sometimes close reading is worth it.

Sometimes, in close reading, the meaning does not appear as one reads it.

The words are struggled through, sometimes, with nothing at all happening really in the brain. Then later, sometimes, something happens.

Perhaps akwa's blog is controversial. Good. Most interesting things are.

[chefzadi]

In opposition to this, the food of the poor is often difficult to eat. Several days ago I was in a Vietnamese noodle shop in Florida. They had pigs feet in a ginger-vinegar sauce. I don't make pigs feet often because I can't find anyone who will eat them with me laugh.gif so I ordered them. . .ahhh. Delicious. But. Let me assure you that the act of trying to eat chopped up portions of pigs feet still dangling from the bone in a soupy broth in public is NOT an easy nor an elegant act.

I wonder what business people eat during power lunches in Vietnam?

[jackal10]

In the UK upper class nursery food has a long fine tradition.

From actual nuseries - in large houses the children were cared for seperately by the nurse, and she or her assistant would cook plain soft bland foods for them, followed by boarding school from the age of 5 or so, then University, or Officers Mess in the armed forces, then the safety of a gentlemans club, all serving much the same comfort food, cradle to grave.

Some of it is very nice

[Carrot Top]

I wonder what  business people eat during power lunches in Vietnam?

Well. . .perhaps they have a different set of foods that are considered "mannerly".

Most cultures do, don't they?

Then again, the manners might be different and the struggle of man over chicken bone done in public might be seen as something to admire in one.

I know I felt I deserved admiration after getting through that meal in public without anyone staring at me (too much, anyway!)

[Adam Balic]

My own personal understanding of foods that are planned to be placed on the tables of the very wealthy, which stems from having been chef then executive chef for the very wealthy, is that the food needs to be very easily eaten. I am not sure if that came from one group or another having better teeth to chow down with in history or not. . .but I am quite sure that it has something to do, both past and present, with shaping the dining experience into a certain form.

It is partly about luxury, in the way that it is apparent that everything cost a great deal and that no expense was spared. The words and the way of "Haute Cuisine" is one way of defining that. . .and it usually is true that though at times the exact style can change into "peasant" food, that "peasant" food is then purposely morphed by the chef into things that can be chewed easily. And the more basic sauces that were in the original dish are enriched for deeper taste and softer texture.

The point is not just the flavor. The point is to be able to sit at table and eat, or rather dine, in a way that will minimize the effect of any messy realities of the food intruding upon the meal. There should be no bones to stuggle with while cutting a piece of meat, chicken or fish. . .there should be no bits of vegetable to struggle with. . .there should be no sauce that is drippable. . .and it is even further better if nothing has to be cut with knife and fork. The best idea for a meal was to have it be transportable from plate to mouth without muss and fuss. . .with nothing but enjoyment in the act. As akwa said, removing the work from the table.

This in turn sets a tone, a tone that has freed the diner from the usual sorts of responsibilities that a person has when eating. It allows them not only the luxury of the finest and most expensive things in the food area that have then been perfected, distilled, intensified for their pleasure, but also the luxury of eating them without attention being paid to them in a certain way. They can be taken for granted, they are there. One might consider this to be a sociological ploy in terms of class definitions. One might also consider this to be psychological ploy in terms of freeing oneself up for what often happens at the tables of the very wealthy. . .business. . .in one form or another.

More often than the rest of us, the very wealthy have to attend to business. They do it at lunch, they do it at dinner. They do it in the expensive restaurants of the world that everyone else wants to go to just to "eat". They are there as much because it is a theatre. . . where they gather to do their business and the co-socializing that is neccesary for the business.

In the past, I would imagine that the business took the form more of arranging marriages and alliances rather than discussing who was going to buy whose corporation and whether they were going to do it before or after the bankruptcy.

But back to the food. The worst thing one can do when trying to win a business deal is to screw up by showing stuggle with cutting up a piece of chicken. It puts one at a disadvantage.

Therefore the nursery food and the very attentive care to each and every detail. It is not only to make the food look good. It is to make the people who eat it look good. (And in my own personal philosophy, why not? Isn't the table about generosity? Or if it isn't, it should be.)

Admittedly there were times that I joked that it might make everyone happier if I just chewed the food up for them so they wouldn't have to do that, either.  

There is definitely a lot of work in removing the work from the table.

..................................................................................

In opposition to this, the food of the poor is often difficult to eat. Several days ago I was in a Vietnamese noodle shop in Florida. They had pigs feet in a ginger-vinegar sauce. I don't make pigs feet often because I can't find anyone who will eat them with me    so I ordered them. . .ahhh. Delicious. But. Let me assure you that the act of trying to eat chopped up portions of pigs feet still dangling from the bone in a soupy broth in public is NOT an easy nor an elegant act.

That dish will not make it to the tables of the very wealthy without being drastically

tweaked.

.....................................................................................

Again, as far as "understanding" akwa goes. . .my impression is that he has something to say that is intensely philosophic. And in this forum of the blog, the audience (if you will), has developed expectations of "how it will be". There is an expectation of photos, of descriptions of food, of "how this was done". This is natural for this is how it usually has been here.

akwa is doing it differently. It requires close reading, if you care to.

Sometimes close reading is worth it.

Sometimes, in close reading, the meaning does not appear as one reads it.

The words are struggled through, sometimes, with nothing at all happening really in the brain. Then later, sometimes, something happens.

Perhaps akwa's blog is controversial. Good. Most interesting things are.

←

The peasant eats

Bony fish with relish

The rich man

Is shown

Whole great fish

Which metamorphose

In the kitchen to

Filet de Soles à la dieppoise?

Very interesting. I think that there are (or have been) other issues other then ease/comfort of eating, but it is a very good point. Do you think that this has any influence on some of the emerging styles of cooking were food is pesented in figurative manner, rather then producing food 'which tastes of itself'?

[Carrot Top]

Could be so, Adam. Never thought about it before. Will do so now.

Thank you for giving me something to (figuratively) chew on. It is quite yummy.

[whatsup1]

Again, as far as "understanding" akwa goes. . .my impression is that he has something to say that is intensely philosophic. And in this forum of the blog, the audience (if you will), has developed expectations of "how it will be". There is an expectation of photos, of descriptions of food, of "how this was done". This is natural for this is how it usually has been here.

Perhaps those expectations have developed due to the foodblog guidelines and rules of the road.

That is not to say that I am not enjoying the blog, as hard to understand as it may be.

Edited August 17, 2005 by whatsup1 (log)

[SobaAddict70]

Unfortunately this is by necessity one of our shorter installments.

Akwa's installment will remain open until early Thursday morning, for those of you who would like to post farewells.

Tune in later this evening (Wednesday) when we head to Duluth, Minnesota, as the Foodblog showcases reminders of the glories that summer can bring.

Soba

Edited August 17, 2005 by SobaAddict70 (log)

[Smithy]

pretzel art blogging:

words, with fiberoptic twist

peer into your world - thanks

[lancastermike]

The end was reached before I understood one word of it. It is my regret I have not achieved the level of consciousness needed to relate to this. My education in food and life have clearly been deficient at some point. Pehaps if Akwa blogs in the future I will have advanced to a level of understanding. However, I doubt it.

Instead of Mozart I am going to listen to a Kinky Freidman CD. Him I understand.