In Praise of Simple Foods

[Hopleaf]

The more different types of foods my one year old eats, the more I notice how simple foods really get us all started on an appreciation of food.  Having just recently gotten ahold of Nigella Lawson's How to Eat and reading her chapter on feeding kids, I've paid closer attention to the approach my little one has to food, rather than just trying to make sure she gets a bellyfull.  Size, color and shape play such an important role early on in deciding what to eat and what not to. Green peas are a big favorite, but cut grean beans are not. Broccoli florrets are well liked, but cut up broccoli stalks may as well be saved for soup.  PB&J is ok if there's a good ratio of J to PB, if there's too much of either then dad's eating it.  

Now I'm trying to remember if I was particular about foods in a similar manner.  Of course I can't remember too far back, but I have a sense that I did want to try everything, an approach my daughter seems to take as well with just about anything that finds its way into her hands..eventually it ends up in her mouth.  But I've always been curious about how things taste...like at a birthday party for a neighborhood friend when I was about 9 or 10 everyone was saying how disgusting anchovies were (we went to Chuckie Cheese I think) and I asked if I could try it.  Similarly I asked my wife about this and she said that she ate her first raw oyster in a similar situation, at a b-day party and someone dared her to eat it.  It's funny to think about all that now and know that a) I like anchovies on my pizza and b) she loves raw oysters.

My parents never let us get any sugary cereals and when I first moved out in college, I went nuts in the cereal aisle.  What I found though was that I preferred my trusty Shredded Wheat to Cocoa Puffs and Lucky Charms.  With the sugary cereals I was always falling asleep in my first class (of course that could've been due to the late night at the bar down the street...nah) but with the Shredded Wheat I felt good energy throughout the day.  

So, I guess it comes down to having a sound base of simple foods and an appreciation of those foods tastes have prepared me to be more adventurous than the average person.

[Liza]

I've never lost my passion for PB&J, root beer floats, and Kraft macaroni and cheese!

[Jinmyo]

Liza, I like pie!

[stellabella]

Hopleaf--how thrilling to read your post.

I too was a sweetened-cereal-soda-candy-junk-food-deprived child.  As my sisters and I got older, and as my dad's practice became more lucrative, we tended to get more frequent food treats, but when we were little we sat down to the table for supper every night, ate what was put in front of us, and the biggest damn deal was when my mom would make banana pudding from scratch with meringue.  I have been longing for that pudding for years......

I will say this--as adults all over 30 and one over 40, my sisters and I have all become relatively slim and active adults, all of us with hearty appetites and a varying appreciation for good food.  And none of us likes junk food--so when we were finally set loose in the junk food aisles, we tried it for a while, but, like you, eventually ragained our senses and found that more nutritious food was what we ultimately craved.  Have I said that I am GRATEFUL to my parents for making sure we ate well and avoided the junk?  We felt so deprived at the time--EVERYONE else got to eat crappy food--but now we're better off for it, I think.

Don't get me wrong--I have a sweet tooth and love a well-made dessert--but give me salad over potato chips ANY day.

Great post.

[Hopleaf]

Thanks stellabella.  You know, one thing that us, as you so aptly put it,

sweetened-cereal-soda-candy-junk-food-deprived

children can hang our hat on is a more heightened sense of taste.  I remember my first sip of Coca Cola when I was 12 (!!), it was one of the sweetest tasting things I've ever ingested. Another big no-no was sacchrine-sweetened anything (cuz it causes cancer in laboratory rats, of course); the first taste of TAB was interesting, especially in comparison to that first sip of Coke.  

You're right on, stella. We're better off now because we ate a more...um, natural (for lack of a better word) diet.  It was difficult to see that when I was in third grade and I had the strangest looking lunch: pork sliced from last night's roast (nice and garlicy) with mozzarella on caraway rye with a mound of romaine and tomatoes, plus a plain yogurt (which I still eat every morning to this day) and a fruit juice. A far cry from my neighbors bologna sandwich on gummy white bread with American cheese (I've since found the joy in American cheese, especially with grilled cheese 'wiches), and yellow mustard with a side of Jays potato chips and a Coke.  

To what degree do you think that this experience has been the root of your culinary appreciations.  You say that you and your sisters have a hearty appetite for good food, but is that because your tastebuds weren't killed by Fruit Loops and Chef Boyardie?  I think it's very telling that your sweet tooth is more turned on by a well-made dessert.  Maybe that's it in a nutshell, a solid foundation of healthy eating has given us discerning tastes.

[stellabella]

Thanks stellabella.  You know, one thing that us, as you so aptly put it,

sweetened-cereal-soda-candy-junk-food-deprived

children can hang our hat on is a more heightened sense of taste.  I remember my first sip of Coca Cola when I was 12 (!!), it was one of the sweetest tasting things I've ever ingested. Another big no-no was sacchrine-sweetened anything (cuz it causes cancer in laboratory rats, of course); the first taste of TAB was interesting, especially in comparison to that first sip of Coke.  

You're right on, stella. We're better off now because we ate a more...um, natural (for lack of a better word) diet.  It was difficult to see that when I was in third grade and I had the strangest looking lunch: pork sliced from last night's roast (nice and garlicy) with mozzarella on caraway rye with a mound of romaine and tomatoes, plus a plain yogurt (which I still eat every morning to this day) and a fruit juice. A far cry from my neighbors bologna sandwich on gummy white bread with American cheese (I've since found the joy in American cheese, especially with grilled cheese 'wiches), and yellow mustard with a side of Jays potato chips and a Coke.  

To what degree do you think that this experience has been the root of your culinary appreciations.  You say that you and your sisters have a hearty appetite for good food, but is that because your tastebuds weren't killed by Fruit Loops and Chef Boyardie?  I think it's very telling that your sweet tooth is more turned on by a well-made dessert.  Maybe that's it in a nutshell, a solid foundation of healthy eating has given us discerning tastes.

first b edulis's bathroom--now your third-grade lunch--

i'm totally plotzing again

understand, this doesn't happen to me often and i need....to....catch....my...

....breath....ahhhh...

i think about this all the time--and i didn't get  it all in in the first post.  well,  as i said, we ate what was put on the table.  so we ate what our parents ate--that's one thing--kids who eat what adults eat seem to be more adventurous eaters.  another thing--my mom's parents were farmers, as in real farmers, as in cattle & corn-raising, tractor-driving farmers.  my mom took us all up to delaware every summer, sometimes for most of the summer.  every night we sat down to table, and in july we might sit down to fried tomatoes, clam fritters [from clams we'd dug earlier in the day], sliced fresh tomatoes, squash & zuchini cooked with butter, onion & tomato [i still like it this way], sliced cukes & onions, green beans--ubiquitous green beans-- boiled potatoes, and a HEAPING PLATTER OF SILVER QUEEN CORN--our pop-pop's affection for each one of us grandkids grew in direct proportion to the number of gnawed cobs we left on the plate.

so, there was the variety factor, the fresh factor, the family gathered rituallistically around the table factor, the watching my mom & grandmother cook all day factor....

the cleaning up factor

and i forgot the fresh blueberry pie from berries picked by my grandmother that morning factor

or the peach & cream pie factor

or the perfect pie crust factor--i still can't do it butmy grandmother could--and she thought being able to make a ie crust was far less interesting or important  than, say, being able to solve calculus problems.  *sigh*

here is what i have secretly thought for many years, and i hope this doesn't come out the wrong way--

i think that, looking back, the fact that we got fed so well might have meant that --in some srange way-- we were loved a little bit more, or a little bit better, than many other people, and i feel grateful for that, a little embarassed by that, and determined to continue spreading that kind of "love" around as best i can.

i enjoy hearing about your daughter's emerging eating habits, too.  it must be so wonderful to experience first-hand.

[Rachel Perlow]

well,  as i said, we ate what was put on the table.  so we ate what our parents ate--that's one thing--kids who eat what adults eat seem to be more adventurous eaters.

Definitely. I just don't understand why parents make such concessions for their children, like always making them chicken nuggets or plain pasta. Chicken nuggets didn't even exist when I was a kid!

We would eat what we were given, I don't think my mom ever made separate meals for the adults versus the kids. She wasn't that adventurous a cook though, it was frequently a meatloaf or baked fish or grilled or baked chicken, but we weren't picky eaters. Michelle Urvater (sp?) had a show on TVFN a few years ago and she'd always showed how to make something palatable for the kids, then do something more interesting with the adult portion. Why not just do the more interesting thing for everyone at the table?

I remember going to catered events where'd they'd have different food for the kids (hot dogs or something) and I'd go to my parents' table and ask for some of the "adult" food.

I know several really picky kids. It seems to me they get their attitude from their parents. If mom is always on a diet and barely picking at her food, then how do they expect a toddler to learn to eat? Same goes for making the dumbed down kid food. How will they ever learn to appreciate vegetables if the parents are always giving in to the child's demand for plain food or junk? If the kid goes hungry for a meal or two, they will eventually learn to eat what is on their plate.

Whew! What a diatribe. But I have some strong feelings on this subject.

[Wilfrid]

From as early as I can remember, if my mother tried to make a special meal for me, I would argue to eat the same meal as the grown-ups.   I never much liked candy or desserts, but unfortunately that didn't seem restrict my girth significantly.

My baby - nineteen months - has rapidly changing tastes.  I started slipping her morsels of well-flavored cheese when her mother wasn't looking, and by about a year old she would insist on sitting on my lap for the cheese course and helping herself.  Then she went right off it, and turns her nose up at the smell.  I'm sure it'll come back.  We gave her some curry once (at Tamarind, no less), and had a pretty restless night as a result.  

[jhlurie]

Ah yes.  The "simple food" topic... a perpetual eGullet favorite.  

As Jinymo says... I like Pie.

Actually, this discussion has evolved in a slightly different direction than previous efforts.

"Simple" is a tough word to use with food.  Is cheese "simple"?   It's got plenty of ingredients, and the process to make it is quite complex.  Is Jello simple?  Pastuerized Milk?  Pie?  Tomato sauce?  Pasta?

What about a salad?  Yes, it is simple in the sense that the ingredients are closest to their original form--the least transformed by chemicals or packaging.  But in terms of preparation a truly excellent salad is hardly "simple".  If we use that scale to measure, than the flash frozen microwave pizza is far "simpler"--at least in execution.

I've sworn to myself, and to anyone who'd listen, that as I make my way up in the world that I wouldn't lose touch with the "simple", uneducated rube that I started out as.   This includes my palate.  But the simple rube ate more packaged and processed food, and the older version has gone on (not back) to what Hopleaf is defining as "simple food"--things someone grew in the dirt (or in the hydroponics tray) that I've paid them to give to me when they get big enough.  Or better yet, to PREPARE for me, since the exchange of some of my money in trade for some of their time helps that part along nicely.

Eating "naturally" costs either money, time, or both.  One of the consequences of getting older in the modern world is that you are able to be either richer, or perhaps merely create more time, and increase your access to natural foods.  This concept would have been ludicrous to our ancestors... but it's certainly true now.

[Priscilla]

"Simple" is a tough word to use with food.  Is cheese "simple"?   It's got plenty of ingredients, and the process to make it is quite complex.  Is Jello simple?  Pastuerized Milk?  Pie?  Tomato sauce?  Pasta?

What about a salad?  Yes, it is simple in the sense that the ingredients are closest to their original form--the least transformed by chemicals or packaging.  But in terms of preparation a truly excellent salad is hardly "simple".  If we use that scale to measure, than the flash frozen microwave pizza is far "simpler"--at least in execution.

Jhlurie, extremely cogent remarks.  The frozen pizza especially is an excellent illustration.  How much easier, if easier is simple, than that?  And salad!  One of the most difficult things to make well.  But salad could hardly, as you point out, be lower on the food chain.

So.  Is easy simple?  Simple certainly ain't always easy.  Sometimes the two do coincide, like an apple and a piece of cheese and some bread.  Simple and easy are shifting psychological states, maybe, or relativistic principles, rather than specific foodstuffs.  Or, maybe not!

Priscilla

[tommy]

my *god* it's good to see jhlurie back.  and i'm not a religious man at all.

[stellabella]

Whew! What a diatribe. But I have some strong feelings on this subject.

me, too, but lately i have been met a couple times with the "you don't have kids and don't know what you are talking about and you don't understand so shut up" fanged barb--and am therefore hesitant to say much.  all i can do is point to my own upbringing.  or the way my neice is being raised.  or the way all the other responsible parents i know are raising their kids.

for example--some friends adopted an 18-month-old--they were in their late 40s at the time, very good cooks both and appreciative of fine foods.  within months of her arrival that baby was eating off her mother's plate at indian restaurants.  at parties she was into the cheese platter--and it wasn't velveeta, trust me.  one night i remember her picking the mushrooms out of a tapenade--she was finally scolded until she stopped.  since her first appearance here she has always eaten at table with the rest of us, and i have never seen her throw a fit.

i think kids do go through stages, and they do have less developed and more sensitive palates.  that said, they should still be required to "try" everything, period.  when i take my neice on trips i make sure she tries everything on my plate.  last week we took her to a taqueria and turned her on to horchata.  she thought it looked awful, but then she liked it [it's sweet, of course].

isn't it all in the attitude?  food is an adventure.  good foods make us feel good.  cooking is an act of kindness, if not love.  rachel's point about the dieting mom--that gives me chills.  i look around and see small children developing neurotic relationships with food and it makes me furious, too.

[tommy]

Chicken nuggets didn't even exist when I was a kid!

they sure did.  they came out when i was in 9th grade, which probably put you in 8th grade.  so there.  

this thread got me to thinking of my eating habits as a child.  i am told (with great accuracy) that i didn't like *anything*.  my parents woud force me to eat stuff that i didn't like.  "eat it or wear it" was a favorite of the old man.  i'm not sure that this is doing much for healthy development either.  perhaps if there's interest this could be a new thread?

[jhlurie]

McDonald’s introduced Chicken McNuggets in 1982.  Other places may have had them even earlier.

other chicken nugget news of interest:

from"News of the Weird".  It's small enough to quote here:

"In January, after the California restaurant chain Carl's Jr. began televising a commercial chiding competitors' chicken-nugget meals (the ad: executives examining a chicken in a futile attempt to find a body part called the "nugget"), the animal rights group United Poultry Concerns objected, not just because the chicken was mishandled but because the examination hurt the chicken's feelings (treated the chicken "derisively," United's chief Karen Davis told the Los Angeles Times). (A few days later, seemingly in support of Davis, Australian neuroscientists Charles Watson and George Paxinos announced the startup of their project to compile a comprehensive atlas of a bird's "sophisticated and complex" brain, emphasizing features in common with humans' brains.)"

[tommy]

McDonald’s introduced Chicken McNuggets in 1982.

that's what i said.  

[Rachel Perlow]

That nugget time frame sounds right. But when I say kid, I mean little kid, like my three year old nephew whose entire diet seems to consists of plain pasta with butter, bread, chicken nuggets and cheese (not the fancy stuff). I don't buy the "you don't have kids so you don't understand" argument. It may be hard for a few days/weeks to say, "eat what is on the table or go hungry," but eventually they'll have to try the food, right?

[Jinmyo]

Rachel, having had kids, I agree completely with you. They have to eat sometime.

The greater range of foods they are exposed to, the better.

[Jaymes]

Entered this post eagerly because I love "simple food," but was somewhat disappointed to find the notion that "simple food" equals "junk food."  I love the former and hate the latter.  Probably because, like other posters, wasn't reared on Twinkies, Cokes and Chips...

To me, "simple food" is what I had last night... fillet of fish, lightly seasoned and poached in wine, peppers and onions brushed with EVOO and grilled, baked potato, sliced homegrown tomatoes.

In the matter of raising kids...had three, all now successful adults.  They ate what Mom & Dad ate.  The only thing I made them do was to take at least one bite of everything and if they didn't like it, didn't have to eat the rest.  But that was one bite per time I served it so, in the case of brussel sprouts for example, I probably served it once a month, which means they ate at least twelve of the little green morsels per year.  After a while, you get used to it despite yourself.

If they didn't want to finish their plate, they didn't have to.  After the requisite "one bite" of everything, they could leave the rest, and I didn't make them sit there for hours until they finished it, or have it reappear days afterward.  BUT they didn't get anything else that particular mealtime.  I told them that I was not a short-order cook and that if what I was willing to stand out there and fix for them wasn't good enough, fine, but you don't get anything else tonight.

It worked pretty well...  my kids are all adventuresome eaters and good cooks.  One son has a degree in Hotel & Rest Mgt, and talks of opening a restaurant someday.

So, I agree with the posters who don't understand "Prawns au Sherry" for the grownups and hot dogs for the kids.  Prawns for everyone, I say.

[Jinmyo]

In the matter of raising kids...had three, all now successful adults.  They ate what Mom & Dad ate.  The only thing I made them do was to take at least one bite of everything and if they didn't like it, didn't have to eat the rest.  But that was one bite per time I served it so, in the case of brussel sprouts for example, I probably served it once a month, which means they ate at least twelve of the little green morsels per year.  After a while, you get used to it despite yourself.

That's exactly so.

[stellabella]

But when I say kid, I mean little kid, like my three year old nephew whose entire diet seems to consists of plain pasta with butter, bread, chicken nuggets and cheese (not the fancy stuff). I don't buy the "you don't have kids so you don't understand" argument. It may be hard for a few days/weeks to say, "eat what is on the table or go hungry," but eventually they'll have to try the food, right?

when i said kid, i also meant kid, not infant/teether/toddler

jaymes & jinmyo, you have released a heap of self-recrimination from my shoulders.  i nearly came to blows with a close friend not too long ago.  i felt so horrible after that weekend i cried & cried.

was told that the 2 1/2 yr-old "doesn't drink milk, doesn't like it"--stood by while he turned up his nose at every bite "offered" him, was allowed into my husband's easter basket first thing in the morning so that he'd agree to eat ANYTHING else...

my stomach was in knots, and i had been firmly put in my place about passing any judgment since I am not a mom  

now i know that i am not crazy.

sure, tommy, maybe this would make a good topic.  but i think maybe your parents' strategy worked better than you think, since you're here now....?

yeah, let's clarify that we're not conflating "simple" with "junk"--I tend to think that Diet Coke, for example, one of my guilty pleasures--is one of the most complexly toxic foods known to humankind.  that's why i hate that i like it.  

anyway, hopleaf, two more thoughts:

when i was 3 or 4 my grandmother got me to eat the green beans and cole slaw on my dinner plate by telling me  to mix them together "like they do in fancy restaurants."  so, I still mix green beans and slaw when they appear together on my plate.  and was my grandmother a crazy genius or what?  i miss her every day.

at about this same period in my life, my dad--the classic overworked work-a-holic father of five girls:wow: liked to relax in the back yard on weekends with a plate of saltines, american cheese slices and tabasco--each cheese slice was quartered & stacked on a saltine, then liberally doused with tabasco.  my sisters and i BEGGED for them--was it the chance to eat the grown-up food?  a rare moment of father-daughter bonding?  who knows?  today i can't imagine eating this snack, but if my dad were eating it i would eat it with him just for the heck of it.

[nyfirepatrolchef X]

I was an elitist...cream cheese and jelly.  Hard to believe that I make a better red sauce than most Italians Ive worked with over the years (and one Xmas Eve we had an authentic Italian  Xmas Eve dinner, prepared by two authentic Irish Firefighters).  

Even harder to believe is that as a kid I couldnt stomach sauced pasta...so I ate it dry.

Now I live on sweet potatos, as a kid the texture made me gag.

And my mom had to force feed me the packaged mac & cheese she used to doctor up with cream of mushroom soup and tomatos.

Now since I cant have the mac or the cheese, Id give my right arm for just one plate of it.

And nothing, but nothing beats a good chocolate eggcream and a Black & White Cookie.My first summer at the Fire Patrol I treated the house...went out and got the fixins and foamed up a tricolor storm.  I used to be able to get three layers of color in the glass.  And I dont mean unmixed chocolate syrup settled at the bottom.  And of course it had to be Foxs UBet.  Were from that far off foreign country Brooklyn. Itd be blasphemous to use that stuff from Pennsylvania.

[Jinmyo]

Don't be sad, stella.

I did what my mum did when the kiddies were teething:

Gave them a rasher of bacon to chew on.

[jhlurie]

Entered this post eagerly because I love "simple food," but was somewhat disappointed to find the notion that "simple food" equals "junk food."  I love the former and hate the latter.  

I don't think this is a discussion intending to equate junk food to quality, Jaymes.  I think that we are just trying to get around the inadaquacies of the English language.  Simple was being used in place of the word "natural"... no on second thought it was being used in place of the word "healthy"... and it just made sense to make sure that we were all talking about the same thing.

In my mind...

BASIC = single ingredient

NATURAL = a lack of man-made ingredients

HEALTHY = not proven to cause cancer   (mostly kidding here)

but "simple" is really vague...

[Jaymes]

me, too, but lately i have been met a couple times with the "you don't have kids and don't know what you are talking about and you don't understand so shut up"

isn't it all in the attitude?  food is an adventure.  good foods make us feel good.  cooking is an act of kindness, if not love.  

StellaBella...  Let me tell you something.  I raised three kids to adulthood...  all wonderful kids, successful, healthy, college graduates, adventuresome, curious, enthusiastic in all areas including food.  And I did it with just plain old common sense.  No particular training or schooling or brains on my part.  It just seemed obvious to me that if Mother Nature sends along kids, she sends along instincts and common sense as to how to raise them, and your best bet is to just calm down and do what comes naturally, what seems obvious.

I follow your posts religiously...  You are a smart gal with plenty of common sense.  You don't need to have children to be able to look around you and see what makes sense and what doesn't.  

Don't ever let anyone tell you that you are incapable of making an intelligent observation about kids because you don't have any.  You're a human being, and you once WERE a kid, and you've undoubtedly been around some good ones and some bad ones and some normal ones and some weird ones, and that's all the experience you need in order to have some pretty good insights into how to raise them.

It seems to me that if you have friends telling you to "shut up," what you need is some new friends.

[stellabella]

Don't ever let anyone tell you that you are incapable of making an intelligent observation about kids because you don't have any.  You're a human being, and you once WERE a kid, and you've undoubtedly been around some good ones and some bad ones and some normal ones and some weird ones, and that's all the experience you need in order to have some pretty good insights into how to raise them.

It seems to me that if you have friends telling you to "shut up," what you need is some new friends.

you're extraordinarily kind--and not the first to tell me maybe it's time to weed the garden.  this one's friend situation is such an anomaly--so unlike anything else i have ever witnessed--among my close friends, or kin, that is.  in fact i work in public schools and therefore know just how bad it can get for so many kids--that's why it irks me so to see someone who should have more sense be so senseless.

firefighter:

cream cheese & jelly?  you didn't say what kind--we always usedpepper jelly, either red or green, homemade.  it took me a while to develop a taste for it because once when i was probably eight or nine i opened a jar of red pepper jelly thinking it was strawberry & scooped it into my mouth.

& gagged.

i had to be taught then that pepper jelly was not a repulsive food, but in fact a very delicious complement to certain meats and, of course, cream cheese & captain's wafers.

i am now into buying "gourmet" pepper jellies--there's a jar of habanero jelly in the fridge right now.  i found some really good ones at the green market in union square while visiting new york.