Vancouver Culinary Schools

[HKDave]

I spent a long time doing research and checking references before I chose Northwest, and I was happy with my choice. It's not fancy, but there is no fluff, solid instructors, and a focussed student body.

If I had unlimited time and was a BC resident, I would have gone to VCC. I observed one of their classes during dinner service for their restaurant, and talked to a couple of the Chef/Instructors, and was impressed. But it's a long program, and they invariably have a portion of the class that's just there because it is cheap rather than because they want to cook. All you need to get in VCC is (I think) a pass in Grade 9. Plus they have a serious waiting list. But it is the most thorough culinary education you can get in Vancouver, and is a massive bargain if you're a BC resident.

I got that same 'Dubrelle grads = prima donnas' comment from several chefs, and wrote Dubrelle off the list early. My attempts at communication with the school reinforced that. However, I have to say that all the Dubrelle grads I've personally worked with in a kitchen have been good. I have no idea what's happening in the new era with AI.

I didn't hear anything good about Pacific's culinary program from anybody (I did hear some good things about pastry, but that's not what I was after). I was told that they spend a lot of time cooking for their retail outlets, at the expense of learning - and that this (or something related to it) had prompted some of their students to picket the school in the past. I was unable to verify this - anyone know that story?

If anyone out there is selecting a school, my suggestion is to ignore fancy facilities and any promises of student/teacher ratios and all that crap. Spend some time talking to the students (if the school won't let you do that, write them off) and if possible, to people in the biz who have hired their past grads. And find out how long your potential instructors have been teaching, not just how long they've been cooking. I ended up choosing Northwest, which was less than a year old at the time, based mainly on the instructors' experience and reputation. I wasn't disappointed.

Before you run off to culinary school, spend a shift or two in a real restaurant kitchen during service, even as a dishwasher or just observing. School, at its best, is only a pale imitation of reality. You can graduate from any of the above schools and still be pretty useless in a kitchen, and you also can graduate from any and (potentially) be a great cook. Much depends on you and what you are willing to put into it.

[butter]

I am the cheerleader for Northwest and although I tried to get them to pay me for it , they wouldn't as they know their school's reputation can stand on its own. I was in their first class when they opened in April 2004. As a mature student looking for a short term program, it suited me best. My brain was filled with a lot of info in 4 months and so I find now that I'm working I need a lot of review as I may have only done something once in school and in smaller quantities. Unlike HK Dave, who I think had some cooking experience before NW??? (isn't that right?) I had none. I liked the curriculum of NW as well with lectures being short, debate welcomed, and lots of hands on practice. Chef Tony and Chef Christophe (instructor owners/previous instructors of Dubrulle) were always available and didn't paint any unrealistic expectations of the industry. Even now, it's been a year, and I know I can still go to the school and they will be there with open arms to help me and give me advice. When I went to VCC I got the same feeling, but I just couldn't see myself committing to a year. I was anxious to start working in the industry. I did go to Dubrulle aka Art Institute and Pacific for an orientation, but felt like the students were just numbers. Perhaps that has changed with the new competition in town.

The only beef I have about my school is that they didn't have a can opener so at my first job although I was staring right at it, I didn't know it was a can opener and didn't know how to use it. For those of you not in the industry commercial can openers do not look like the ones you have in your kitchen drawer. It was embarassing for the new kid on the block. Tomorrow I'll be calling NW to make sure they have fixed that glitch.

In summary, give me an N, give me an O...very happy with NW.

[Junior]

I went to the Pacific Insitute 7 years ago. I was in the third class they ever had. To see the school now is impressive. You spend the first 3 months of the program in a teaching kitchen learning the basics and the last three months in a restaurant kitchen learning how to work in that environment. I came away with a classical foundation, a few line skills and a $10,000 debt. Oh well.

Sue and Walter have worked very hard to make the school successful, when I was there I can remember Sue being at the school for hours on end and tirelessly promoting the school all the time through many functions and events around the city.

I recommend the school to anyone who is interested in going to cooking school. I feel that they give you the basics and enough info for you to survive in your first job. Is it worth the money ? maybe.

There are a few PICA grads that work here in Saskatoon and they are better cooks than what is produced here.

I would be interested in knowing how many of my classemates are still cooking ?

I don't know anything about the picketing the school, but I do know about a few lawsuits that were made against the school about lack of bang for the buck. The school won every one.

["T"]

I went to Dub pre Ai.

The chef instructors were great. The problem with Dub isn't that they fill you with high expectations it's more likely they attract students fromm wealthy backgrounds who have been pampered since the day they were born, therefore they feel they deserve 50K a year to make chicken stock.

I always reccomend NW to those who ask me. I was taught by Chef Tony, worked with Christophe and Chef Ian is so full of passion and joy, although, he can be tough( and good on him for it) these people care about what they do and that is something that will stay with you for a long, long time.

Edited June 14, 2005 by "T" (log)

[Chef Fowke]

Interesting....

All the top chefs (exception Earls...thanks Nobel for returning from Calgary!) are imports to BC or are locals who travelled abroad to get an education with the exception of Rob Fennie (did he work outside of BC?).

In my last job I hired students from both Dubrulle and VCC and was very pleased. The students from MiraPosa (spelling?) were even better. Unfortunately in my last year ALL culinary schools seemed to take a paradigm shift and became businesses. Ultimately this will be GREAT for the industry, but unfortunately it corresponded with the collapse of the government sponsored apprenticeship program.

Supply and demand (please refer to my grandfather's work) will all prevail and the problem will find a natural conclusion. It is time for the industry to become proactive vs. reactive before it loses its market share.

Brian.

[transfattyacid]

with the exception of Rob Fennie (did he work outside of BC?).

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yah

he worked in chicago for Mr Trotter.

i`m an import , most of the lads ( sorry if this is sexaulist i haven`t worked with any ladies yet in town ) i`ve worked with have, or are about to embark on working holidays in Europe .

[transfattyacid]

with the exception of Rob Fennie (did he work outside of BC?).

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yah

he worked in chicago for Mr Trotter.

i`m an import , most of the lads ( sorry if this is sexaulist i haven`t worked with any ladies yet in town ) i`ve worked with have, or are about to embark on working holidays in Europe .

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DOH!

stop the press, i`ve just heard he didn`t "work " there just hung out and watched

"stage" whatever you guys call it

[cubilularis]

Scientific method...show your source! Training and where you work to show validity!

Let me start for you....

I was born in Virginia, trained in Hawaii, LA, Ontario and Montreal, went to McGill and SFU...Married a Chef in Vancouver....a very big Chef in many derivatives of the word!!!

[Irishgirl]

Dubrulle grad here. From the Diana Becker days.

I felt that instruction was excellent at the time. I felt that the "School" mislead me in regards to what to expect in the industry. I didn't ask a lot of questions though...i mean I did about cooking, because that was my passion, but not about the business. I was VERY green.

P.S.

Rob Feenie may have observed at Trotter's, but he did work at two or three high profile restaurants in France. (Not for very long mind you.)

[Matt R.]

Scientific method...show your source! Training and where you work to show validity!

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I have to disagree with the above statement. It is very often only half correct.

I have no formal culinary education, or very little, but seem to be doing "okay", as far as cooking in this city goes. Cooks I know from Vancouver seemed puzzled how we make it out here in our little hamlet, but I am doing better than they are? Is this just luck or coincidence?

-- Matt.

[Kayaksoup]

I went to Dub pre Ai.

The chef instructors were great. The problem with Dub isn't that they fill you with high expectations it's more likely they attract students fromm wealthy backgrounds who have been pampered since the day they were born, therefore they feel they deserve 50K a year to make chicken stock.

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I think maybe half the students are like that. The other half are regular people like me who have scrimped and saved and gone into massive debt so that they can go to school. Unfortunately, I do see a mindset from some students that they are better than everyone else (to the point where they don't think its necessary to wash their own dishes~pet peeve of mine). The takeover by AI is still in the early stages and I think it has not been an easy transition. I was informed a mere two weeks before I started that the course I had signed up for had completely changed and I very nearly bolted then.

[Badiane]

Dubrulle grad here.  From the Diana Becker days.

I felt that instruction was excellent at the time.  I felt that the "School" mislead me in regards to what to expect in the industry.  I didn't ask a lot of questions though...i mean I did about cooking, because that was my passion, but not about the business.  I was VERY green.

P.S.

Rob Feenie may have observed at Trotter's, but he did work at two or three high profile restaurants in France.  (Not for very long mind you.)

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I am also a Dubrulle grad from the Diana Becker days...I trained under Olivier Andreini (now at the CIA) and La Feenie himself. Misled? You betcha. Prepared for a job? Not even close. I came out with excellent classical techniques, but didn't actually know anything. I was a very accomplished cook when I enrolled, and it did hone my skills. But some of the students in my class couldn't cook! Nothing! I don't actually know if any of them managed to make a career or not. I sure wouldn't have hired any of them. Looking back, I can't believe Karen Barnaby didn't murder me on the first day, never mind that she actually tolerated me for 6 full months. Karen, I am so sorry for being the worst freaking line cook in the history of your restaurants

As for Feenie...he went to Sweden when he was in high school and that made a big impression...a few flying visits to France, Chicago and NYC, but as far as I recall, he is local through and through...from Dubrulle to Le Crocodile, back to Dubrulle, back to Le Croc and then he opened Lumiere, which was in the works for a number of years before it got off the ground.

[sashavan]

I went to Dubrulle as well. I don't regret it but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I'd take the $10k tuition and use it to fund a year of working for free in some good kitchens.

[nwyles]

Dubrulle grad here.  From the Diana Becker days.

I felt that instruction was excellent at the time.  I felt that the "School" mislead me in regards to what to expect in the industry.  I didn't ask a lot of questions though...i mean I did about cooking, because that was my passion, but not about the business.  I was VERY green.

P.S.

Rob Feenie may have observed at Trotter's, but he did work at two or three high profile restaurants in France.  (Not for very long mind you.)

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I had the chance to work with Olivier Andrieni for two years after he left the culinary school. He was an interesting Chef, great technique, patient and had a wealth of knowledge to share. That being said, I found he had a very poor understanding of how a business worked and all of the things / components that it took to make it all happen. As much as I was given a chance to have two years of one on one cooking lessons, I found that I became the instuctor when it came to dealing with the business. An experience I would not trade for anything.

[Daddy-A]

If you're interested in discussing the pros & cons of formal chef training, there are a couple other threads going in the General Foods forum:

Choosing a Culinary School

Culinary School or Self-teaching?

This may have been discussed up thread ... are any of the "amateur" culinary schools worthwhile? I'm thinking of places like Joie (there are others, I just can't think of them right now). I know these are a different category of school altogether, but I'm wondering if there are any that can offer insight into the world of a chef. Or, are they just for weekend warriors?

A.

[chef jeff]

I do the odd demo at Norht West, and have been nothing but impressed with that school. I also have hired two grads. One who is still with us. Both of them came to us with the skills needed for an entry to mid level position. I don't know the cost of tuition, but it seems like a good choice.

I graduated from VCC, and have real mixed feelings about it. I still feel that they offer the oppurtunity to aquire a broader skill set than any of the other local schools. You get so much practical experience at producing larger amounts of food, in a restaurant-like setting. This is something none of the other schools offer. Unfortunately, half your classmates will never amount to more than line cooks at The Pantry or production cooks for airline food (probably making more money too!)

My problem with VCC is this. Being origionally from the Niagara Region in Ontario, I visited the new tourism campus of Niagara College recently. The culinary departmnet is amazing. The facilities are gorgeous, the student run restaurant is top notch, and they are attached to the winery and vinyard which is another program available! The students are exposed to local farmers and suppliers, they go on field trips, and they are cooking food that is very relevant.

At VCC they didn't even talk to us about the benefits of fresh wild local salmon!

Now I realize that the Campbell government is never going to build a new facilty with an operating winery, but I think more emphasis needs to be put on ingredients, and current food "trends" (I hate that word, but sometimes you have to use it). Maybe things have changed, but I drop in thier once and a while, and they are still serving the same food in the student run caffeteria as when I was there in '92.

I think making VCC more relevant would help to improve the base of quality cooks coming into the industry. Any other VCC grads that feel the same way?

[BCinBC]

Arne: Chef Jeff kind of beat me to it, but I picked up a pamphlet for Northwest last weekend that offered abbreviated cooking courses (like 8 day "serious foodie" course). I doubt that they go indepth on the business side of resto life, but I am thinking of signing up for the cooking fundamentals that they're selling.

[nwyles]

Arne: Chef Jeff kind of beat me to it, but I picked up a pamphlet for Northwest last weekend that offered abbreviated cooking courses (like 8 day "serious foodie" course). I doubt that they go indepth on the business side of resto life, but I am thinking of signing up for the cooking fundamentals that they're selling.

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If you want an education in the business side of life at the restaurants, come on down......................a couple of shifts in every dept followed by a master class in income statements will give you enough knowledge to question why anyone does it .

[maxmillan]

Graduated from PICA 5 years ago with a pastry certificate. I felt the school was a total rip-off. Basic skill like pastry cream, doughs, bread, pies, etc could have been condensed into 6 weeks instead of the 6 months of torture. They do not prepare you well for the real work world. I don't know about the recent staff this year, but PICA had some teachers quit or fired. These disruptions were bad for the students, leaving them without a chef, or as in my case, having Walter teach the pastry class, which, BTW, is NOT his specialty.

During my one week practicum, I did not get to use my pastry skills as I was sent to a kitchen cutting vegetables.

Walter and Sue seem more interested in marketing their school to get suckers to pay $10,000 than looking out for the student's or the industry's best interest. (Hmmm, is that why they have so many foreign students?)

Through working with other people after graduation, I was told that employers prefer to hire students from VCC as these graduates are better prepared and they have a lower snob quotient. Plus, VCC have a list of potential employers looking for graduates, unlike PICA.

Personally, I know more successful graduates from VCC and Dubrulle. I'd spend my money on VCC and use the remainder to upgrade in the one/two week classes offered by NW, PICA or Dubrulle.

[HKDave]

I do the odd demo at Norht West, and have been nothing but impressed with that school.  I also have hired two grads.  One who is still with us.  Both of them came to us with the skills needed for an entry to mid level position.  I don't know the cost of tuition, but it seems like a good choice.

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Hey Chef, you've de-lurked! Welcome to the forums (and thanks for the stage back in March - much appreciated). I still remember your demo at school, because they made us all cook it immediately afterward: potato-wrapped smoked sablefish with winter veg and mussel broth.

Northwest costs $6 grand for 3.5 months, plus about $600 for uniforms and textbook and application fee (all mandatory, unless you buy the text on Amazon for 1/2 the school cost, which I did). Plus another $400 if you buy your knife kit from the school (which I didn't, although the school kit is decent). So figure it will set you back about $7 grand all in. This is a good deal compared to Pacific or AI, and is almost free compared to some of the US schools I looked at.

Re VCC, I think they've improved on the local ingredients thing. They were using local wild salmon when I was observing in the kitchen there, and the Chef said they only use wild now.

Re Northwest's 'Serious Foodie' class, it's a lot of fun, but it's not for pros. I was an assistant teacher for one class last semester, and it does cover some of the material that they cover in the Pro classes. It in no way would prepare you for a restaurant kitchen, but I'd recommend it for a home cook that wants to step up.

[Vancouver Lee]

Arne: Chef Jeff kind of beat me to it, but I picked up a pamphlet for Northwest last weekend that offered abbreviated cooking courses (like 8 day "serious foodie" course). I doubt that they go indepth on the business side of resto life, but I am thinking of signing up for the cooking fundamentals that they're selling.

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Just thinking out loud here, but is there enough interest to approach one of the schools about doing a couple of courses for eGulleters? I'd love to do some of the "serious foodies"-type courses with the folks around here....

[CanadianBakin']

Arne: Chef Jeff kind of beat me to it, but I picked up a pamphlet for Northwest last weekend that offered abbreviated cooking courses (like 8 day "serious foodie" course). I doubt that they go indepth on the business side of resto life, but I am thinking of signing up for the cooking fundamentals that they're selling.

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Thanks so much for posting this link! I think I'm going to have to save up to take it next year sometime. I don't have time to take a full course and living out in the boonies, the drive is a killer. As well, it would really just be for my own interest as I don't intend to work in a restaurant, just polish up my skills.

[BCinBC]

I've contacted NWCAV on course info. Foodie runs Sept 19 - Nov 14, but since I'm out of town for the end of Sept, I'll miss the first two classes. Marla the school contact is checking with Chef Tony what the impact would be, but most likely I'm SOL until the course runs next time, probably in 2006.

I've also asked about 1-shot private group lessons for anyone who is interested (Van.Lee and CdnBkn), as well as a "short" run 2-3 class custom series. Minimum 12 participants, all hands-on. Maybe we could do the first two fundamentals classes of Foodie? Updates to follow.

PS - I too would be taking the courses just for personal interest/experience. Props to y'all with the chops, but me in a pro kitchen? To quote Mike Meyers, "Cha right, and monkeys might fly outta my butt."

[*Deborah*]

I've contacted NWCAV on course info. Foodie runs Sept 19 - Nov 14, but since I'm out of town for the end of Sept, I'll miss the first two classes. Marla the school contact is checking with Chef Tony what the impact would be, but most likely I'm SOL until the course runs next time, probably in 2006.

I've also asked about 1-shot private group lessons for anyone who is interested (Van.Lee and CdnBkn), as well as a "short" run 2-3 class custom series. Minimum 12 participants, all hands-on. Maybe we could do the first two fundamentals classes of Foodie? Updates to follow.

PS - I too would be taking the courses just for personal interest/experience. Props to y'all with the chops, but me in a pro kitchen? To quote Mike Meyers, "Cha right, and monkeys might fly outta my butt."

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Thanks for looking into that, Brian, please keep us updated!

[lemon curd]

I did a number of the Serious Amateur courses at Dubrulle and liked them so much that I took the culinary program at Dubrulle in 2002 and went back for the pastry program a year later. I certainly enjoyed the time that I spent there, but was it really worth the money, I'm not so sure. However since I had always really wanted to go to cooking school, I took the plunge, not quite sure at the time where it would lead me. This was a 'second career' so to speak.

I checked out VCC but passed on it due to the length of the program and the fact that it seemed to be more 'institutional cooking' oriented rather than 'fine dining'. I also toured PICA but thought it was unusual that they would not let me sit in on the lecture nor did they really give me an opportunity to speak with the students directly. Dubrulle on the other hand, let me sit in on the lecture, observe the cooking demo, and speak directly and freely with the students.

Northwest was not around at the time I was deciding where to go, but the owners Chef Tony and Chef Christophe were my instructors at Dubrulle and I have no doubt that they would want their school to be the very best it can be. More recently other good chefs instructors have left Dubrulle to join them at Northwest (Chef Ian).

My time at Dubrulle was most enjoyable due to the instructors themselves. While this came up in another thread, at no time did any of my instructors suggest that we would earn anything close to $14/hr when we graduated and they did their best to tell us how little we really knew and how much more there was still to learn.

While at Dubrulle, I volunteered one night a week at La Folie in White Rock and ended up working there after I graduated. I agree with Sashavan that a cheaper way to get your foot in the door if you have no experience is to seek out a good place to work, volunteer for a while, and hopefully that will lead to employment.

Edited June 16, 2005 by lemon curd (log)