chocolates: pretty and perfect?

[Trishiad]

I was talking with a local Potter today who explained that she leaves a little blemish in every piece that she creates. She says that is what distinguishes her work from the work of machines.

An artist friend, who loves to paint with lots of color, chastised me for adding a chip of colored chocolate to the top of my green tea chocolate. She said chocolate should look like chocolate, dark and satiny, nothing more.

I've noticed that some of the artisanal chocolatiers are exclusively using a guitar slicer and transfer sheets. Some seem to use only Belgian molds. Some allow tiny air holes or slight irregularities.

I know what matters in the end is the taste but what about first impressions? You're spending $30 on a box of 20 pieces.....Would you rather see something so perfect that it looks as if it cuold have been created by a machine or something flawed in some small way? Do you want it to look naturaly formed and organic in color or more dolled up in high fashion. Opinions please....

trish

[JSkilling]

I like them beautiful and decorated if they are that expensive. Not that I won't eat the claylike lumps with just as much abandon

[Skwerl]

I have to agree with JSkilling. For high end chocolates, I much prefer a exotic high-gloss finish with edgy colors or design (Christopher Elbow) to something rustic and quaint. Aside from that just being part of my personality, I think if one KNOWS that said chocolates are not manufacutred by a machine, perfection is indicative of mastery. My two cents...

[Trishiad]

While I agree that perfection is indicative of mastery, I wonder how we KNOW what machinery is or isn't involved? Is using a guitar to get perfect squares cheating? If you design your own transfers do you earn enough "points" that the consumer overlooks the fact that you use an enrober? Or does the average consumer care at all?

I was reading a comparison of Mariebelle and Recchuti the other day. Being in California, I've never tasted MarieBelle but they looked SO perfect there in their box. Recchuti chocolates always look a little handmade to me and I suspect that is Michael's intent. In striving for perfection, beating myself up, and tossing inferior chocolates into the sink, I wonder if perfection is truly attainable when doing everything without machinery.

I asked a chocolatier how his molds were always the perfect thickness, "machines" he said. I was snooping around a certain store in St. Helena and noticed that when they opened the door into the HUGE kitchen I was bombarded by machinery noise. Tempering machines? Maybe. Enrober? maybe. What else? Still "hand made"? Maybe. I using an enrober like making a cake from a box? Or more like using an oven instead of a fire pit?

And do we want our chocolates to be flashy or just lovely? Josh says flashy, how 'bout the rest of you?

[nightscotsman]

I think using an enrober is like using a sheeter for croissants rather than a rolling pin. At serious commercial quantities there is simply no way to do everything by hand and make money. If a machine is going to give me better quality faster, then I'm all ears.

I also vote for perfect finishes whether decorated to death or naked chocolate.

[chefette]

I think this is an interesting discussion - not at all unlike the discussion on use of edible papers that you can print designs on and transfer to a cake.

Maybe the real underlying questions here are these:

What is the value of artistry and skill?

If you find a way to essentially mass market your skills and artistry to allow those without the same level of skill and art to appear as talented and skilled and artistic in their work - are you in fact devaluing yourself?

Where do you draw the line between time saving, toolsets, and skill/artistry?

I believe that doing fine molded chocolates is a real skill and that if you do them - you should do them perfectly - saying that you leave air bubbles to show they are made by hand is just opening the excuse door to sloppy workmanship. And keep in mind that it is not just about the exterior - good fillings are also part of the difference.

For ages there has been a tug of war between pastry pros going for the rustic look trying to tap into the goodness and handmade warm fuzzies but then machines can made rustic looking stuff

and rustic or perfect it can all taste like inedible glop or it can be good

whether you make something yourself by hand or it is manufactured - whether products are simple and rustic or finely finished they should all be as good as they can possibly be - consumers should demand that.

The product should reflect its use and its setting. If you are going for a fine sophisticated menu or ambiance then your work should follow suit and harmonize.

[JSkilling]

I think the artistry and skill still play in because even with the use of all the technology and machinery possible, someone who doesn't understand the process can't produce the same product, never mind can't produce the same quality product. How you choose to color them, the shapes you use, the decoration all reflect the artistry used to produce your goods. For me as a consumer it doesn't matter how you achieved it but I do expect that high priced chocolates will taste scrumptious, look beautiful and be artfully presented.

The ingredients chosen in the product probably play into the equation more than the methods for me. Fresh natural choices over preservatives and flavors would go a long way in enhancing the value of the artistry. That shows you know how to make the base and then when you present it well you highlight your own individuality and skill.

I would choose truly beautiful generally over flashy.

[jeniac42]

I would want them to look as perfect as possible. I am far from being skilled enough to make anything I bake or any chocolates look perfect, but that's the eventual goal. Not machine-made cookie-cutter, but no air bubbles, no misshapen blobby things, etc. I think I pretty much agree with Skwerl.

[Skwerl]

This probably all comes down to something like personality type and personal tastes. I'm a young computer programmer into modern art, contemporary decorating, bright colors, and the edgy look of Madison Avenue graphic design. I like my chocolates to look (and taste) the same way I like everything else- bold, unique, and exotic. Someone who is a parent, enjoys casual design and comfort foods for example might appreciate hand-dipped chocolates that look and taste familiar and homemade. There will always be markets for both styles just as there are both of these kinds of people, so you should just craft your own style of chocolates around your own philosophies and what you prefer.

I was talking with a local Potter today who explained that she leaves a little blemish in every piece that she creates. She says that is what distinguishes her work from the work of machines.

Like Cheffette was saying, I don't think this is a valid way to establish that something is hand-made, or at least made by hand with care. This sounds like a quaint way to make actual defects into something that looks intentional. "Yeah, yeah I meant to do that!" A hand-etched signature on the bottom side of a plate should be sufficient to convince someone it's hand-made.

[chefette]

I also think that the intentional 'flaw' is a sort of 'signature' but until you are well enough known - like maybe Alfred Hitchcock - the signature mark is sort of vain and meaningless.

If anyone saw the episode of The Apprentice last group - not the most current one - where they made those mini M&M chocolate bars you can see that just because you have a machine to help you doesn't mean that you are guaranteed to do a good job. The quality control people tossed alot of the bars that the apprentices made because of bubbles and flaws.

Now if you are asking if hand dipped are somehow inherently better or worse than molded chocolates that is another long and involved discussion and generally speaking from a skill standpoint - most chocolate people (well - french chocolatiers' would say that the hand dipped are the more skillful since it requires more skills and effort to do those well than to temper the chocolate and mold off chocolates.

If you are asking if chocolate should be left plain or colored or decorated that is merely an aesthetic style choice. Clearly your friend has their perspective and when you make chocolates for her to make her most pleased you should keep that in mind - but it has no bearing on anything.

Moving on - NSM said hell yes to machines and I would agree - that if you are producing any real volume on a regular basis you cannot manage without equipment. Assuming all aspects other than the equipment used to facilitate the processes are equal (that you have great fillings, great quality chocolate, and produce a clean and well executed product) then it is just a question for the consumer.

Edited May 27, 2005 by chefette (log)

[R Washburn]

I value perfection. As Chefette wrote above, flaws are just poor craftsmanship. I would also point out that since I make my own chocolates, I would prefer to buy ones that are better than the ones I make.

Edited May 27, 2005 by R Washburn (log)

[Wendy DeBord]

I think this is an interesting discussion - not at all unlike the discussion on use of edible papers that you can print designs on and transfer to a cake.

Maybe the real underlying questions here are these:

What is the value of artistry and skill?

If you find a way to essentially mass market your skills and artistry to allow those without the same level of skill and art to appear as talented and skilled and artistic in their work - are you in fact devaluing yourself?

Where do you draw the line between time saving, toolsets, and skill/artistry?

I believe that doing fine molded chocolates is a real skill and that if you do them - you should do them perfectly - saying that you leave air bubbles to show they are made by hand is just opening the excuse door to sloppy workmanship.  And keep in mind that it is not just about the exterior - good fillings are also part of the difference. 

For ages there has been a tug of war between pastry pros going for the rustic look trying to tap into the goodness and handmade warm fuzzies but then machines can made rustic looking stuff

and rustic or perfect it can all taste like inedible glop or it can be good

whether you make something yourself by hand or it is manufactured - whether products are simple and rustic or finely finished they should all be as good as they can possibly be - consumers should demand that.

The product should reflect its use and its setting.  If you are going for a fine sophisticated menu or ambiance then your work should follow suit and harmonize.

←

I strongly agree with all the points made in Chefettes post above. You must first practice great craftsmenship, regardless of motive.

In addition as an artist I want to see that items are indeed made by the artist themselves. I believe that reproductions that are hand done by the artist retain the value and title of "fine art". But when you use a machine that is set up by a human other then the artist and the reproductions are accomplished by that person (whether their using a machine or not)......those are not fine art pieces.

I believe similarly when this process is used in manufacturing chocolates. Unless the chocolatier/artisian is participating in the process I don't see the product as having the same artistic value.

In a world dominated by machines and mass production I highly value hand created work! One of the ways to set your work apart from others is to make them not look mass produced. How far you want to take that......is up to you. Ideally, I'd like to see chocolatiers design their own molds. I also think this should apply to world wide pastry competitions. I think all molds should be designed and made by the "artist" presenting this as "their' art/creation. Better yet, I'd love to see them make even their molds at the competition. This is something that really defines artists from craftsmen in my opinion........the artist can create the whole item from start to finish with-out another persons interaction. If you want a stencil, you create the stencil. If you want a pattern, you create the pattern. If you want to use a transfer sheet, you make it. If you want to use a mold (either to mass produce something or not) you the artist create the mold.

I do intentionally try to make my work look different then what you can buy at a stores. I never want someone to mistake my work for someone elses or bought in product. Why would you want your work to be exactly like everyone elses? I do try to achieve perfection as outlined by Chefette even though I'm a long way from achieving it!! Sometimes I may be trying to achieve a "rustic" look and sometimes I'm not.........either style or any other, still must be made with as best of craftmenship as one can achieve. Artists/confectioners can hand create sleek contemporary designs just as they create rustic designs. The craftmenship should be the same even if the finish isn't.

Unforunately, we all have to start as students before we become masters and in that process I find beauty in artists imperfect studies/work. When I see a master chocolatiers work have bubbles in it.......theres no excuse.......thats poor craftmenship verses artistic statement (well of course that could be argued too).

[chefette]

Thanks Wendy

Adding to what you said - I think that some 'artists' and possibly misguided consumers as well have come to see - childish or inferior work as somehow indicative of handmade and I think that is doing us all a huge disservice. There will always be small variances in handmade work - especially chocolates - but a good artisan does their utmost to minimize these differences - that is what makes them good at what they do.

In many respects, as any other artist does, we must rely on the consumer to seek out, appreciate, and have the intrest in supporting the arts and enjoying the special aspects of our art because there are alot of immitations and mass produced things out there that are more competitively priced - and there are lots of these products out there that are priced exactly the same as your artisinal work so it is often very difficult for a consumer to discern.

Part of our whole effort is helping consumers know how to judge product how to identify quality.

Every time an artist makes his own mold or transfer sheet or packaging there is someone else creating a method or selling that concept to someone who will turn it around and make it possible for about a zillion non-artists to immitate your work.

[Wendy DeBord]

Yes, exactly!

It does take an educated consumer, too. It's also very subjective just like fine art..........so the consumer really needs to understand the process to know how to judge the quality.

I'm not sure how many real artists are slapping out inferior work. But believe me you get TRAPPED in the pricing delemia. AND it's a huge delemia!!

[cotovelo]

Just to add my view on this topic, because I deal with this on a daily basis in my shop.

When I started my shop, I hand dipped my pieces because I could not afford an enrober. Right away I realized that if I wanted to try to make a living doing this, then I would need to use an enrober to produce the quantity needed. I have to say that you could not tell a difference between the pieces I used to hand dip or the ones that I enrobe. I take just as much care and time to get a uniform thickness and a clean perfectly placed transfer sheet as I did before. I still make and pour all my ganache by hand, just as I did before. As for the molded pieces that we make, everything is done by hand. If a piece has an airbubble or a cooling spot or and kind of imperfection, we don't use it. I guess we are not neccesarily going for that "handmade irregular" look that has been discussed. My view is that we are charging a premium and we are using the best ingredients we can find so they need to look and taste as perfect as we can get them. We actually strive to make our pieces look the same, even the completely hand made ones. Maybe not a good example, but would you buy a new car if the windshield was cracked or it had a scratch in it? There is a technique to apply a transfer sheet so that it is even and not overhanging, or not going all the way to the edge. When I see a piece of chocolate where that is not the case, then my first thought is not wondering if it is handmade or not, but that the time and care was not taken during the production process.

As for producing your own unique transfer sheets and molds....it is very costly and not always an option for someone starting out. We are in the process of creating all of our own transfer sheets so we have a more unique product, but this was not an option for us starting out.

Chocolates have come a long way over the years. I love the experience of eating a good classic truffle, rolled in cocoa powder, I also love the experience of eating an enrobed square of ganache that is decorated with a transfer sheet, and I also love the experience of eating a Belgian style molded piece that is perfectly executed and shiny. These are all very different products but all should still be made with the same care and love, most of all they should taste good.

Any way, for what it's worth, this is how I approach some of the issues discussed in this thread.

[JSkilling]

I like the car analogy - a shiny Jaguar comes off the line exactly the same as the last one and the next one and a premium is charged for the care and exacting standards used to present that perfection. No matter how much technology was used to create it, the technicians had to be very good at their part of the job to create such a vehicle. And, no, I'd not consider a flaw in this artistic license.

I guess I go back to no matter what tools you use to create your work, you will still imprint your own stamp on it. And with great care you'll get perfectly aligned transfers, straight lines or purposefully artful misalignment if you so choose. I love seeing how each person chooses to present chocolates in such a unique way and to present a flavor in such a design as to complement it. I'm a total technology user and have no problems using every single tool available to create in faster, better ways. If it's my product my brain conceived it, my hands created the first sketches of it, my creativity shaped it, and my perfectionism will guide it through whatever couse it takes to get to an end product.

Educated consumers also have to be aware of the price points of art (and I don't think they generally are). Hand crafted, detailed work is expensive whether it be chocolate, cake, painting or drawing. We may understand how difficult this is to produce but very few people are discerning enough to appreciate the craftsmanship and be willing to pay a premium over and above what they are already paying for high end products. There is a compromise for everything. Hopefully it won't be as Wendy said with inferior products going out to avoid the pricing dilemma. I think that's a whole new post just on how to get value and price together!!! Yikes.

I swear I keep having this same discussion with all my entrepreneur friends. How do we keep our products unique, high end and marketable where we can still make an income. I have yet to figure this out!

[cotovelo]

I like the car analogy - a shiny Jaguar comes off the line exactly the same as the last one and the next one and a premium is charged for the care and exacting standards used to present that perfection.  No matter how much technology was used to create it, the technicians had to be very good at their part of the job to create such a vehicle.  And, no, I'd not consider a flaw in this artistic license.

I guess I go back to no matter what tools you use to create your work, you will still imprint your own stamp on it.  And with great care you'll get perfectly aligned transfers, straight lines or purposefully artful misalignment if you so choose.  I love seeing how each person chooses to present chocolates in such a unique way and to present a flavor in such a design as to complement it.  I'm a total technology user and have no problems using every single tool available to create in faster, better ways.  If it's my product my brain conceived it, my hands created the first sketches of it, my creativity shaped it, and my perfectionism will guide it through whatever couse it takes to get to an end product.

Educated consumers also have to be aware of the price points of art (and I don't think they generally are).  Hand crafted, detailed work is expensive whether it be chocolate, cake, painting or drawing.  We may understand how difficult this is to produce but very few people are discerning enough to appreciate the craftsmanship and be willing to pay a premium over and above what they are already paying for high end products.  There is a compromise for everything.  Hopefully it won't be as Wendy said with inferior products going out to avoid the pricing dilemma.  I think that's a whole new post just on how to get value and price together!!!  Yikes.

I swear I keep having this same discussion with all my entrepreneur friends.  How do we keep our products unique, high end and marketable where we can still make an income.  I have yet to figure this out!

←

I deal with that on a daily basis. With the demand so high for our product, I have struggled with the decision on how big I want my business to become. We actually dropped one of our big wholesale accounts last December because we could not make enough to keep them happy, and have chocolates left to sell at our shop. While I really needed that income from that account, it turned out to be the best business decision that I have made. As I was working 18 hours a day 7 days a week, I was wondering what I could do to produce more. It seemed like an easy path to take shortcuts or use preservatives, but that was not an option.

As for right now, we turn away sales and wholesale accounts all the time because we can't produce enough and still maintain quality. I don't need to be a millionare at the expense of the integrity of my product, because for the first time since in the 12 years that I have been in the industry, I am so happy with what I am doing. Hopefully the consumer is getting educated enough that they can appreciate what we do and don't mind spending the extra money for a superior product.

[Trishiad]

I am just starting out (hence the brainpicking). I make chocolates for Holidays and special orders only, I'm still trying to decide where my storefront will be and how I will afford it (also waiting for the critter to start school). I look at some of the bigger producers and wonder what I would have to sacrifice to be them. The truth is that I do not want to sacrifice anything. I will not use preservatives, lesser quality chocolates, the deep freeze, etc. and I do require each piece to look perfect (which means the people closest to me eat a lot of free rejects!). It turns out that perfection is a whole lot easier to achieve if you don't have weeks off between each production! I, like Cotovelo, will turn away business if it means compromising my values. I am so glad that there are enough people in my area who will pay more for quality and do value things which are handcrafted. My mother and mother-in-law keep mentioning Oprah and Gourmet and my cookbook and then look at me like I'm stupid when I say that's not my goal. Friends look at the rejects and ask what's wrong with them. I show them the airhole on the side or the bent corner on the palet and they look at me like I'm insane. Maybe I am both stupid and insane but I need each little chocolate to be perfect and I won't sell them unless they are. I may never make a profit, I may cave soon and buy a guitar, followed shortly by an enrober, but the chocolates will be perfect GD-it!

As far as the look goes, I do prefer something slightly more organic in terms of color. I love the addition of a little gold and I do like to handpaint a bit of color but would never fill an entire box with colorful chocolates. I find the satiny browns and creams soothing, grounding, somewhat reasuring. I love the look of the flashy chocolates but they aren't what I want to sell. My two cents.

oh, and two more cents: I don't know how to make a croissant but I sure do each them, especially filled with chocolate. I would never know if the chef rolled the dough, used a machine, or bought it. I wouldn't notice if the powdered sugar wasn't sprinkled just right. I might pay $1.50 or $3.50 and never know why I was paying more or less. So, why do I put so much pressure on chocolates? Stupid and Insane!

[chefette]

Cotovelo - do you mind sharing the name and location of your shop?

nevermind - I found your site - nice work!

http://www.christopherelbowchocolates.com/

I thought that was a really good post that dealt with the issue very well. Are you still selling to Dean & Deluca?

Edited May 28, 2005 by chefette (log)

[Trishiad]

chefette, cotovelo is christopher elbow, chocolatier. lovely handpainted little yummies.

[Wendy DeBord]

Maybe it's just me, but I still find the answers to be more complicated.

First......... artisticly...........hum.......sometimes breaking the mold/going against tradition is what the art is exploring. Modern art verses the classics. Both are valid. I've always enjoyed art that broke rules, that made you uncomfortable, made you think or question whether that took place in modern art or classic. I believe that should and can take place in confectionary that is developed into an art. I can't really say that I've seen more then one item of confectionary pushing this envelop and that makes me wonder what this original post is referring to? (Just to clarify things........I see talking about taste and looks as two seperate things. The taste is first and foremost, even though I haven't mentioned it in my responses in this thread yet.)

I don't see the analogy to the broken windshield as others have. The car is a mass produced item, each is not hand created by the artist. Each is not a unique piece, it's more of a limited edition reproduction. Yes, I agree that fine craftsmen build them, but they aren't building "art". Where as if a artist buildt me a car themselves as a piece of art, and they broke the windshield as part of their work of art, yes I would of course accept it, gladly as their artistic statement. But you don't buy (time parishable expensive) fine art from artists that you don't admire and understand (even though you might buy non-edible fine art as a commodity). If your want fine craftmenship, seek out a fine craftsmen.

A fine craftsmen is slightly differently defined in my head. And I do believe that the application of the words artist and craftsmen do apply to edible goods...and may or maynot be used interchangably depending upon the specifics.

Second is how the artist or craftsmen makes a living at their craft or not. Few artists make a living off their original pieces where as a majority of artist can and do make a living off of their more mass produced pieces. Theres alot of factors in the world/society that work against the artisian. Theres only so many high end buyers willing to pay for the artists time and they can't support all the artists in the world. To erk out a living an artist might have to find many different avenues to support themselves so they can stay alive doing their work. As Cotovelo mentioned he's been doing this for 12 years and just now is controling the terms in which he makes confectionary. New artisians often don't realize the amount of time and compromises artists made and make to finally achieve this stand/level. And the risk of trends knocking down you empire or unethical people stealing your product and selling similar at a lower price point is tremendous.

[chefette]

Are we starting to talk about the question of "if it is produced in volume - can it still be art?" or "Can you produce art commercially?"

what are the lines?

Does art have to be one of a kind? How many reproductions before something is just a thing?

what distinguishes artisinal chocolate from bulk manufactured?

and of course - art doesn't necessarily mean that it is good or better and manufactured does not need to mean that it is bad or inferior. but we already talked about that.

is a bad artist better than a good manufacturer?

I think that as with all artists - you rely on your customers to recognize and appreciate you - to support your work. Developing a following. I guess that is sort of validating.

In a field where your art is so temporal you cannot afford to be a misunderstood artist and if you aren't developing a following or being understood then you have to re-evaluate or perish.

Edited May 29, 2005 by chefette (log)

[cotovelo]

This question of "if it can be produced in volume" is it still art, is something that I have asked myself over and over.

I had this conversation with someone and we were trying to define what an "artisan" is with respect to chocolate. The conversation kept focusing on trying to find a specific volume, where once you venture over that capacity, then you are no longer an artisan but a manufacturer. I don't think such a number exists.

I think that it needs to be defined more along the lines of what the person is doing to get to that capacity. Have they switched to one shot molding lines, do they use preservatives etc. To me, these move one to the category of a manufacturer. If I could use the same techniques that I use now and the same ingredients, and still produce as much as some manufaturers, then is my product a manufactured one?

From the standpoint of wanting to have a profitable business, I need to figure out how to increase production while maintaining my current level of quality.

As far as the analogy of the car, maybe it wasn't a good choice but I wanted to convey that I strive to produce each chocolate to be very consistant with respect to appearance. No, each one is not the same but The challange of trying to me is part of the art form. If it has a crack, an air bubble, a cooling spot then we don't sell it.

I really am glad that this topic has been touched upon, thank you to everyone for their input.

[Steve Klc]

all should still be made with the same care and love, most of all they should taste good

many fascinating tangents on this thread, I keep coming back to this observation of cotovelo. most of all they should taste good. sounds just like what I say about any dish or dessert I receive in a restaurant, whether it's traditional or avant garde. As a diner I have an open mind and palate and neither the look, nor the influence, is really that important until after I taste something. Then I process.

How much of this issue is related to our suspicion, or our personal experience, that the average US consumer hasn't tasted enough good chocolate to "tell" good chocolate? My experience--you put a really good piece of chocolate in someone's mouth, and most get that it's good--they get that there's more there there--but they're not necessarily willing to pay for it.

The problem with mass-produced chocolates, for me, is not that they're mass produced! It's not their perfect look, their well-machined homogeneity--it's their taste. If manufacturers used better, more interesting couvertures and tried to surpass even average standards rather than too-sweet, dull, minimally acceptable ones--I'd be all over them. As it is, I have to spit most out. The problem with the Michel Cluizel line of commercial bon bons and their private label stuff was not that it was made in a large clean mechanized factory--the problem was they weren't using their best, most interesting couvertures, they were using their cheapest and they weren't pushing flavor foward toward something more complex. That was their choice based on how they perceived their market.

And conversely, while I respect the smaller-scale and pseudo-artisanal process, and it holds appeal for me going in, and while that is the reason I'm willing to pay more for a given product, it will be the taste, depth, delicacy and unctuousness that will keep me returning. I can forgive a little dullness or a little lack of thinness or uneven coloring, on both the mass-produced and the artisanal, if the taste still springs alive in my mouth and after I've swallowed. I also don't care whether I have a hand-rolled truffle, a hand-dipped palet, a molded chocolate or an enrobed chocolate in front of me--delicious is delicious and it either is or it isn't. Odds are, if the care and love and skill wasn't employed in creating a professional appearance, it also wasn't employed in creating the taste, but I'm going to let taste be my initial guide anyway.

Appearance, marketing and promotion aside, and I realize appearance is usually a very good indicator of the quality contained within, how sure are we that given average consumers would prefer, say, the taste of an Herme/Wegmans chocolate, which I think on the whole are quite good, tasted blindly against a Godiva?

And how much of the concerns expressed on this thread stem from our fear that said given consumer would choose a Godiva over those hand-made or produced on a much smaller-scale not based on taste but on appearance--or heaven forbid, packaging design alone?

Stylish box, cute ribbon and trendy color scheme, and price point, is that what'll keep em coming back in droves?

[chefette]

I will just say it here and I am certain that the tsunami of passionate backlash will prove my point

See's Chocolates - manufactured mediocrity with a huge and dedicated following that will never concede that See's is maybe just a teeny tad higher on the chocolate scale than a Whitman's sampler from the drugstore.