Ushi Wakamaru

[Jesikka]

I was in this evening, sitting in front of the young guy who served me last time. I think he's a terrific sushi chef. Kudos to Hideo-san for having a number two and number three who maintain such high standards.

The renovation is impressive -- I can't believe they did such a comprehensive overhaul in such a short period of time. The place is barely recognizable. Gone is the green paint, replaced by rich blond wood. The sushi bar is entirely new, including all the refrigeration. It's conceptually the same as the old refrigeration (top loading) but at a much higher standard of construction.

The place was stuffed to the gills the whole time I was there (8:15 until a little after 10).

←

I was also in (we saw you at the bar but didn't want to interrupt and also don't know you) last night and had a great meal. We split a 15 piece chef's tasting and then added another 8 or so pieces of sushi/sashimi. The uni was particularly delicious last night.

I think the place looks great, but I'm a little sad that they don't have the private room anymore. That was a great space for a sushi dinner party. However, it is definitely bigger and more upscale feeling. I hope the prices don't follow.

[Fat Guy]

The people next to me at the bar both ordered the 15-piece tasting, and received piece-by-piece service and an excellent assortment -- better than I received by doing the full omakase. I think the 15-piece is probably the smartest order you can place at the bar from a cost/benefit perspective.

[Bricktop]

Right - many people may remember the Ehime Maru, the Japanese training fishing-boat that was hit by a US submarine practicing a surfacing maneouver, and many more, the Kobayashi Maru, the no-win-hypothetical-situation in Starfleet Academy, that only William T. Kirk has won, by cheating on it.

James T. Kirk, William Shatner. OK, back to sushi talk.

[jkaw]

went last night and had a great meal (15 pc omakase, plus some other favorites). the fish and sequence was pretty much as i remember (ikura, awabi, uni and anago at the end, followed by torched wagyu). a few notes:

1) rice was noticeably good. i didn't remember the rice being too remarkable in the past.

2) slices of fish were larger. not sure if this in an new adjustment for them to try and be more like the nontraditional nyc sushiya with mammoth pieces, but i hope not. i prefer well-proportioned nigiri.

3) as mentioned above, the 15pc omakase (but not the 10pc, as i noticed from somebody sitting next to me who got his meal on trays) is now served piece-by-piece, which greatly heightens the experience. this might have been because the bar was half empty when i ate (around 7:30), as i imagine it might be hard for the three chefs to serve a full bar of people as well as make sushi for the rest of the tables piece-by-piece.

4) the chef i sat with (not hideo-san, but the guy with the shaved head who is next to him) mentioned that they are looking to hire a fourth chef and to expand their sushi menu. he showed me a pot in which duck was marinating in soy, mirin and sugar and said that they would be making sushi (??) from it in a few days (i asked if they were adding more cooked food to the menu and he said "no, this is a sushi restaurant").

5) the new blond wood decor is nice (looks like they took a few cues from yasuda, especially with the bar and the lighting) but i do really miss the character and charm of the old place. screw the doh.

6) the fish tank is gone! that means no more broiled miso lobster (the best cooked dish on the old menu) and live lobster tail sushi. damn!

7) the omakase included some osechi snacks, which was a pleasant addition.

all in all though, i am very happy they are back, as their sushi is far and away the best value in nyc and the chefs are really great guys.

Edited January 5, 2008 by jkaw (log)

[JWangSDC]

Did anyone make a list of the 15 pieces they were served? Also does anyone know the price of the 15 piece omakase?

Last time I went to Ushi I had the complete tasting menu and the amount of food was overwhelming. (I rack up $100-$150 sushi only omakase's @ 15 east and Yasuda and still go out for dessert) But at Ushi, I was so full that I couldn't really enjoy the sushi when it finally arrived. Have been meaning to go back to try just the sushi, but they closed before I had the chance.

Edited January 9, 2008 by JWangSDC (log)

[JWangSDC]

was CRAVING sushi after work so I took a trip down to Ushi and here's what I found.

I walked in at around 545PM to ask what time they open (really I was hoping they'd just let me in at that moment since I knew they opened @ 6) and they told me not until 6 so I took a stroll around the block till then.

When I got there I ordered the 15pc set and it came in 3 trays of 5 which was good, but I would have preferred to be served piece by piece. It might have had to do with my appearance as I visit top quality sushi establishments generally in sweats and sneakers and then ask for the most expensive omakase they have. I find that once I start up a conversation with the chef about sushi they usually look past my excessively casual attire but I had no luck this time. The main chef never said a word to me even though I was seated @ his side of the sushi bar and the young prodigy serving me my sushi platters seemed to ignore quiet comments I made about each fish he served me so perhaps they do still serve the 15 pc chef's special piece by piece.

The sushi itself was very good. I personally prefer the ratio of fish/rice that ushi serves over Yasuda's ratio, but I dont think Ushi can really compete in the variety department. All in all it was very good, my only two complaints were that the uni is what I consider just good enough (it had a slight aftertaste that I don't like). On my 25 or so visits to Masato's bar (whether it be @ JB or 15 east now), I can only remember one instance of such quality being served. On my 10 or so trips to Yasuda, I have never been served Uni with that aftertaste. My other complaint is that my Sardine piece had a little bit of bone in it.( I would asusme it was Kohada, I said "Kohada?" very softly as the sushi chef placed it in front of me but he did not acknowledge or respond)

Really it's the best value in the city for good traditional sushi and the decor after the renovation is quite nice. It kind of reminds me of the X-men's mansion though with a similar design on the wooden wall behind the chefs.

PS: I think it might sound like my service was subpar but realistically it was quite good. I'm just trying to point as many details as possible. Also I have to admit I'm spoiled by the attention I receive @ places like 15 east, shimizu, and Yasuda when I sit @ the sushi bar. My brother makes fun of me and says I have some sort of complex about sushi and he's definitely right. (We had Azuma Sushi in westcester last week and the omakase came to $262 for both of us, he felt the service was superb, I described it the same way I"m describing Ushi...what I'd call good/adequate but not stellar).

[JWangSDC]

was CRAVING sushi after work so I took a trip down to Ushi and here's what I found.

I walked in at around 545PM to ask what time they open (really I was hoping they'd just let me in at that moment since I knew they opened @ 6) and they told me not until 6 so I took a stroll around the block till then.

When I got there I ordered the 15pc set and it came in 3 trays of 5 which was good, but I would have preferred to be served piece by piece. It might have had to do with my appearance as I visit top quality sushi establishments generally in sweats and sneakers and then ask for the most expensive omakase they have. I find that once I start up a conversation with the chef about sushi they usually look past my excessively casual attire but I had no luck this time. The main chef never said a word to me even though I was seated @ his side of the sushi bar and the young prodigy serving me my sushi platters seemed to ignore quiet comments I made about each fish he served me so perhaps they do still serve the 15 pc chef's special piece by piece.

The sushi itself was very good. I personally prefer the ratio of fish/rice that ushi serves over Yasuda's ratio, but I dont think Ushi can really compete in the variety department. All in all it was very good, my only two complaints were that the uni is what I consider just good enough (it had a slight aftertaste that I don't like). On my 25 or so visits to Masato's bar (whether it be @ JB or 15 east now), I can only remember one instance of such quality being served. On my 10 or so trips to Yasuda, I have never been served Uni with that aftertaste. My other complaint is that my Sardine piece had a little bit of bone in it.( I would asusme it was Kohada, I said "Kohada?" very softly as the sushi chef placed it in front of me but he did not acknowledge or respond)

Really it's the best value in the city for good traditional sushi and the decor after the renovation is quite nice. It kind of reminds me of the X-men's mansion though with a similar design on the wooden wall behind the chefs.

PS: I think it might sound like my service was subpar but realistically it was quite good. I'm just trying to point as many details as possible. Also I have to admit I'm spoiled by the attention I receive @ places like 15 east, shimizu, and Yasuda when I sit @ the sushi bar.  My brother makes fun of me and says I have some sort of complex about sushi and he's definitely right. (We had Azuma Sushi in westcester last week and the omakase came to $262 for both of us, he felt the service was superb, I described it the same way I"m describing Ushi...what I'd call good/adequate but not stellar).

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I might add that I've taken my friend to JB and 15 east and he said the omakase we received was much better than the $1100 meal he had @ Masa for his 5th anniversary just as a reference.

[Fat Guy]

Not that there's any justification for it, but the picture I get is that you get treated better at Ushi if you have a reservation. Walk-ins are accommodated/tolerated but they want to clear those seats in time for reservations.

Bone in sardine is sloppy, probably hurried prep. Not good.

Very few sushi places serve what I consider to be excellent uni. I don't think I've ever had uni from a wooden tray that I thought was in that category. It has to be live to be excellent. Nobu Next Door often has it live on the raw bar, and it's so much better than any wooden-tray uni that it kind of ruins the experience of all other uni. That being said, my experience of Ushi's uni is that it has been as good as at any other place that serves high-end wooden-tray uni. The aftertaste issue isn't necessarily a quality indicator. Uni is highly variable by source and season. I did notice last time I was there that Ushi goes through a large quantity of uni. The chef I was in front of went through three whole trays while I was there and was into his fourth tray when I left. I couldn't believe it. So, at least we know the turnover is high.

[JWangSDC]

Not that there's any justification for it, but the picture I get is that you get treated better at Ushi if you have a reservation. Walk-ins are accommodated/tolerated but they want to clear those seats in time for reservations.

Bone in sardine is sloppy, probably hurried prep. Not good.

Very few sushi places serve what I consider to be excellent uni. I don't think I've ever had uni from a wooden tray that I thought was in that category. It has to be live to be excellent. Nobu Next Door often has it live on the raw bar, and it's so much better than any wooden-tray uni that it kind of ruins the experience of all other uni. That being said, my experience of Ushi's uni is that it has been as good as at any other place that serves high-end wooden-tray uni. The aftertaste issue isn't necessarily a quality indicator. Uni is highly variable by source and season. I did notice last time I was there that Ushi goes through a large quantity of uni. The chef I was in front of went through three whole trays while I was there and was into his fourth tray when I left. I couldn't believe it. So, at least we know the turnover is high.

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Hmm where else can I get uni freshly cracked? I've had it served in it's shell but I was certain it was just wooden tray uni placed back into the shell. While I trust my judgement of many pieces of Sushi, I am not very good @ rating uni...I can just tell you how much I enjoyed it and that is a combination of texture, creaminess, and mostly LACK of a dirty aftertaste. I have always found Yasuda's uni to be what I consider "top notch", he usually has both red and light orange uni as well.

[raji]

how much is the 15pc then? I heard $50 and that seems like a wicked deal to me....

don't most auth sushiya get their uni unshelled, while mere mortals get the trays you can basically get at mistuwa and sunrise?

FG is right about univariability, and proper prep and storage of hulled uni makes a big diff

ill find out about yasuda tonight as clearly theirs is the best. yasuda excels often because of his exemplary local sourcing

I know you are a MS devotee, clearly I have to finally visit him at 15 east, but are you saying his is THAT good, or masa is such a waste, or both

[JWangSDC]

how much is the 15pc then? I heard $50 and that seems like a wicked deal to me....

don't most auth sushiya get their uni unshelled, while mere mortals get the trays you can basically get at mistuwa and sunrise?

FG is right about univariability, and proper prep and storage of hulled uni makes a big diff

ill find out about yasuda tonight as clearly theirs is the best. yasuda excels often because of his exemplary local sourcing

I know you are a MS devotee, clearly I have to finally visit him at 15 east, but are you saying his is THAT good, or masa is such a waste, or both

←

The 15 piece is $50 and it is an AWESOME deal. I wish they had a 25 piece selection for $80, that would be ideal for me. (Served as is, in 5 piece trays at a time, the dish is still wonderful and ideal for table service. I would still prefer it piece by piece though).

I myself have not been to Masa so I cannot compare the two on my own but I have never been dissatisfied with a MS omakase. Never. My main point is that a lot of the meal depends on how much attention the chef is willing to give you. When you pay $500/person for a meal, I assume it's guaranteed that he's giving you 100% attention. I really liked all of the sushi @ Ushi and the bone in the sardine was really careless, something they could have EASILY avoided if they didn't treat me like a common spicy tuna roll demanding customer.

To me, MS just has the perfect combination. He has a wide assortment of high quality fish, the style he uses to cut and massage the fish is most preferable to me, both the fish to rice ratio and the actual size of each are my ideal, he was clearly trained in the traditional style of "edo-mae zushi" but he's willing to diverge a bit and get creative, he adds just enough style and trendyness to his dishes, and his poached octopus is fabulous.

The downsides to MS omakases are that he trails yasuda in the variety department, the freshness of his fish is not as consistently perfect as yasuda(this has more to do with variety...the majority of the time everything is impeccable but at times he's short of what I consider GREAT uni but in those cases he ususally declines to serve it), his pieces are somewhat small in regards to my appetite(I always get 20-30 pieces and a sashimi platter...really the size is ideal, just not for my budget), and sometimes the meal is slower than I'd prefer but that's just because he's so busy and paying great attention to detail with every piece for every person.

MS is by far my favorite sushi chef and the most similar guy I have seen shares the same namesake. Shimizu of "Shimizu" seems to have the exact same style but he hasn't achieved as much success so his fish variety is more limited. While I'd rate 15 east higher than Shimizu, I don't actually rate it higher than Yasuda I just prefer it more. I have tremendous respect for Yasuda. To me they are just different experiences and I have my personal preference. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the majority of sushi lovers share teh same preference as me though....

I'll be making a trip to Masa one of these days, its' jsut whenever I have an occasion that makes me want to go, i decide going to visit MS is a safer bet.

[JWangSDC]

how much is the 15pc then? I heard $50 and that seems like a wicked deal to me....

don't most auth sushiya get their uni unshelled, while mere mortals get the trays you can basically get at mistuwa and sunrise?

←

Yasuda's uni is clearly on wooden trays...whether it came that way or he put it onto the tray, I have no idea. I'm not sure that uni fresh from the shell is best anyway(though I haven't tried so I don't know either way), just like the "freshest" tuna isn't the best. Tuna is actually supposed to be aged until it's texture is perfect (something like a week I believe).

But yea, every sushi place I've ever been to serves uni from the wooden tray. MS will often serve uni in it's shell,but I'd bet money he just keeps uni shells and places the uni from teh tray back into the shell, so I am extremely curious to try this "fresh" uni to see if it's just a cute gimmick/presentation or if the freshest/best uni can only be had from a freshly cracked live one.

[ulterior epicure]

how much is the 15pc then? I heard $50 and that seems like a wicked deal to me....

don't most auth sushiya get their uni unshelled, while mere mortals get the trays you can basically get at mistuwa and sunrise?

←

Yasuda's uni is clearly on wooden trays...whether it came that way or he put it onto the tray, I have no idea. I'm not sure that uni fresh from the shell is best anyway(though I haven't tried so I don't know either way), just like the "freshest" tuna isn't the best. Tuna is actually supposed to be aged until it's texture is perfect (something like a week I believe).

But yea, every sushi place I've ever been to serves uni from the wooden tray. MS will often serve uni in it's shell,but I'd bet money he just keeps uni shells and places the uni from teh tray back into the shell, so I am extremely curious to try this "fresh" uni to see if it's just a cute gimmick/presentation or if the freshest/best uni can only be had from a freshly cracked live one.

←

The times that I've been served uni by Yasuda, the uni were on trays - but not the kind that are sold to "mere mortal" consumers. I have a feeling that Yasuda receives them in some other form (than tray packages) and then stores them on his own trays (which, as I recall, was lined with towels of some sort). I'll be interested in what raji finds out.

[LPShanet]

how much is the 15pc then? I heard $50 and that seems like a wicked deal to me....

don't most auth sushiya get their uni unshelled, while mere mortals get the trays you can basically get at mistuwa and sunrise?

←

Yasuda's uni is clearly on wooden trays...whether it came that way or he put it onto the tray, I have no idea. I'm not sure that uni fresh from the shell is best anyway(though I haven't tried so I don't know either way), just like the "freshest" tuna isn't the best. Tuna is actually supposed to be aged until it's texture is perfect (something like a week I believe).

But yea, every sushi place I've ever been to serves uni from the wooden tray. MS will often serve uni in it's shell,but I'd bet money he just keeps uni shells and places the uni from teh tray back into the shell, so I am extremely curious to try this "fresh" uni to see if it's just a cute gimmick/presentation or if the freshest/best uni can only be had from a freshly cracked live one.

←

The times that I've been served uni by Yasuda, the uni were on trays - but not the kind that are sold to "mere mortal" consumers. I have a feeling that Yasuda receives them in some other form (than tray packages) and then stores them on his own trays (which, as I recall, was lined with towels of some sort). I'll be interested in what raji finds out.

←

I'm pretty sure Yasuda gets most of his uni from Santa Barbara and Catalina (he confirmed this once), as do most of the sushi chefs in the area. There are very few providers of top notch uni to NYC and there may be some advantage realized from the relationship a chef cultivates with one of the two or three providers. As Raji and others have pointed out, though, there's quite a bit of variability inherent in uni. So you might find a better or worse piece on a given night at one place, even though they got it from the same source. Overall, the variation can be greater from week to week than it is from place to place at the top end.

As for the comparisons made between sushi places, I agree that Shimizu (the restaurant) seems to have slightly less variety than Ushi or 15 East, but with close to comparable quality. And I really like 15 East overall...it's one of my 2 or 3 faves, but have one complaint (that is probably a nitpick): every time I've eaten there and ordered sushi omakase, I've received the exact same assortment provided in the exact same order. At a really great sushi bar, I expect the chef to give me whatever's great that day, and throw in some new, unusual or interesting things that make it different from the last visit and that reflect what is the best stuff currently available. Having this choreographed sushi assortment instead (while top notch) suggests a slightly lower level of service and personalization. By contrast, when I order sushi omakase at Ushi Wakamaru, it's always completely different. The pre-set thing can still be very good, as it often is at Sasabune for example, but it's not the same as having the chef create the procession for you, which is the way great sushiya do things. At the top places in Japan, they watch you when you eat each thing, and use the info from your reaction to decide what else to give you. Kind of like a good poker player.

Can't wait to get back to Ushi....

[foodhunter]

Here's a question regarding 15 East's omakase (perhaps still relevant to this thread as it may be a general question regarding omakase at sushi restaurants that also have a number of hot kitchen items on the menu).

Have been to 15 East probably close to 10 times since it's opened. Have always requested the omakase, or simply said 'yes' when our waiter asked if the chef should assemble our meal that evening.

In the past, I always believed Masa put the line-up together, whether it be sushi bar or kitchen items. In the beginning, these were very creatively done, usually something new in the 'hot' category and often items not found on the menu.

On my last few visits, it became apparent that the waiter was putting the omakase together -- i.e., selecting what came out of the kitchen and simply signaling Masa when it was time for the sushi bar to put out the next course (the sashimi platter or octupus, for example). And on my most recent visit, our waiter seemed overwhelmed at the idea of the chef's tasting menu altogether. They were slammed with customers that night, and it felt like the dishes were selected at random.

And even on occasions when I've my best meals at 15 East (at the sushi bar), I've witnessed a haphazard approach to assembling the omakase for other tables in the dining room (based on the discussions I would overhear between the waiters and Masa).

So I guess my question is one of terminology. At 15 East, is the omakase the same thing as the chef's tasting? According to the menu, it all seems to be the same price ($120). Should I be asking for the omakase and specifying that it only be of items from the sushi bar? My impression is there is another chef at work in the kitchen, and I've always been somewhat disappointed with the dishes that have come out of there (with the exception of Hideji Asanuma's soba).

[LPShanet]

Here's a question regarding 15 East's omakase (perhaps still relevant to this thread as it may be a general question regarding omakase at sushi restaurants that also have a number of hot kitchen items on the menu).

Have been to 15 East probably close to 10 times since it's opened.  Have always requested the omakase, or simply said 'yes' when our waiter asked if the chef should assemble our meal that evening. 

In the past, I always believed Masa put the line-up together, whether it be sushi bar or kitchen items.  In the beginning, these were very creatively done, usually something new in the 'hot' category and often items not found on the menu.

On my last few visits, it became apparent that the waiter was putting the omakase together -- i.e., selecting what came out of the kitchen and simply signaling Masa when it was time for the sushi bar to put out the next course (the sashimi platter or octupus, for example).  And on my most recent visit, our waiter seemed overwhelmed at the idea of the chef's tasting menu altogether.  They were slammed with customers that night, and it felt like the dishes were selected at random.

And even on occasions when I've my best meals at 15 East (at the sushi bar), I've witnessed a haphazard approach to assembling the omakase for other tables in the dining room (based on the discussions I would overhear between the waiters and Masa).

So I guess my question is one of terminology.  At 15 East, is the omakase the same thing as the chef's tasting?  According to the menu, it all seems to be the same price ($120).  Should I be asking for the omakase and specifying that it only be of items from the sushi bar?  My impression is there is another chef at work in the kitchen, and I've always been somewhat disappointed with the dishes that have come out of there (with the exception of Hideji Asanuma's soba).

←

Not sure if the menu still indicates this, but there are actually multiple versions of the omakase at 15 East. They have a general omakase that includes hot kitchen items as well as sushi, and they have a sushi bar omakase that only includes sushi bar items.

[JWangSDC]

Here's a question regarding 15 East's omakase (perhaps still relevant to this thread as it may be a general question regarding omakase at sushi restaurants that also have a number of hot kitchen items on the menu).

Have been to 15 East probably close to 10 times since it's opened.  Have always requested the omakase, or simply said 'yes' when our waiter asked if the chef should assemble our meal that evening. 

In the past, I always believed Masa put the line-up together, whether it be sushi bar or kitchen items.  In the beginning, these were very creatively done, usually something new in the 'hot' category and often items not found on the menu.

On my last few visits, it became apparent that the waiter was putting the omakase together -- i.e., selecting what came out of the kitchen and simply signaling Masa when it was time for the sushi bar to put out the next course (the sashimi platter or octupus, for example).  And on my most recent visit, our waiter seemed overwhelmed at the idea of the chef's tasting menu altogether.  They were slammed with customers that night, and it felt like the dishes were selected at random.

And even on occasions when I've my best meals at 15 East (at the sushi bar), I've witnessed a haphazard approach to assembling the omakase for other tables in the dining room (based on the discussions I would overhear between the waiters and Masa).

So I guess my question is one of terminology.  At 15 East, is the omakase the same thing as the chef's tasting?  According to the menu, it all seems to be the same price ($120).  Should I be asking for the omakase and specifying that it only be of items from the sushi bar?  My impression is there is another chef at work in the kitchen, and I've always been somewhat disappointed with the dishes that have come out of there (with the exception of Hideji Asanuma's soba).

←

Not sure if the menu still indicates this, but there are actually multiple versions of the omakase at 15 East. They have a general omakase that includes hot kitchen items as well as sushi, and they have a sushi bar omakase that only includes sushi bar items.

←

I usually ask for a plate of sashimi then get two $55 sushi omakase's and also let the chef know to add whatever he wants in. He periodically asks if I feel like eating more or not. I've had all of the tasting menu's though(I thought there were 3, one being a combo of kitchen and sushi, the other sashimi and sushi...and yet for some reason i still thought there was one other option that was essentially sushi and sashimi also)

The sushi only tasting menu is probably the best choice because it has sashimi appetizer dishes like uni in it's shell and ponzu sauce items but I skip it becuase I'm all about the sushi. I actually get the plate of sashimi out of tradition; I'd be fine with skipping it but he always offers so I accept.

[raji]

how much is the 15pc then? I heard $50 and that seems like a wicked deal to me....

don't most auth sushiya get their uni unshelled, while mere mortals get the trays you can basically get at mistuwa and sunrise?

←

Yasuda's uni is clearly on wooden trays...whether it came that way or he put it onto the tray, I have no idea. I'm not sure that uni fresh from the shell is best anyway(though I haven't tried so I don't know either way), just like the "freshest" tuna isn't the best. Tuna is actually supposed to be aged until it's texture is perfect (something like a week I believe).

But yea, every sushi place I've ever been to serves uni from the wooden tray. MS will often serve uni in it's shell,but I'd bet money he just keeps uni shells and places the uni from teh tray back into the shell, so I am extremely curious to try this "fresh" uni to see if it's just a cute gimmick/presentation or if the freshest/best uni can only be had from a freshly cracked live one.

←

The times that I've been served uni by Yasuda, the uni were on trays - but not the kind that are sold to "mere mortal" consumers. I have a feeling that Yasuda receives them in some other form (than tray packages) and then stores them on his own trays (which, as I recall, was lined with towels of some sort). I'll be interested in what raji finds out.

←

Hey guys - haven't gotten an answer from the man himself just yet - he's a bit intimidating, yes - but yes, asking around and from my experience, shipping whole uni vs. hulled uni would be a huge waste of refrigerated shipping costs - so the uni are usually shelled at the source and packed up for refrigerated shipping. So, as long as quality control is consistent through the entire supply chain, which is true for everything served at a sushi bar, there isn't much difference between one shelled at the source or at the table - so it's done more as a novelty item more than anything else.

[raji]

Here's a question regarding 15 East's omakase (perhaps still relevant to this thread as it may be a general question regarding omakase at sushi restaurants that also have a number of hot kitchen items on the menu).

Have been to 15 East probably close to 10 times since it's opened.  Have always requested the omakase, or simply said 'yes' when our waiter asked if the chef should assemble our meal that evening. 

In the past, I always believed Masa put the line-up together, whether it be sushi bar or kitchen items.  In the beginning, these were very creatively done, usually something new in the 'hot' category and often items not found on the menu.

On my last few visits, it became apparent that the waiter was putting the omakase together -- i.e., selecting what came out of the kitchen and simply signaling Masa when it was time for the sushi bar to put out the next course (the sashimi platter or octupus, for example).  And on my most recent visit, our waiter seemed overwhelmed at the idea of the chef's tasting menu altogether.  They were slammed with customers that night, and it felt like the dishes were selected at random.

And even on occasions when I've my best meals at 15 East (at the sushi bar), I've witnessed a haphazard approach to assembling the omakase for other tables in the dining room (based on the discussions I would overhear between the waiters and Masa).

So I guess my question is one of terminology.  At 15 East, is the omakase the same thing as the chef's tasting?  According to the menu, it all seems to be the same price ($120).  Should I be asking for the omakase and specifying that it only be of items from the sushi bar?  My impression is there is another chef at work in the kitchen, and I've always been somewhat disappointed with the dishes that have come out of there (with the exception of Hideji Asanuma's soba).

←

There is mass confusion concerning omakase outside of the Japan - it's really something that is lost/confused in translation. Chef's tasting is a bit different because it doesn't really change per person - a true omakase should. True to it's meaning, ordering omakase means you should get a guided tour of what's good and in season at that sushiya. Pricing should always be ($xx AND UP) - the price of an omakase is just a minimum, and it would only cost you that if you only want as many pieces as included in whatever the "stock" omakase is that day. And this is if you don't give the chef more information as to what you like and dislike or want to try that day. I've written about omakase ad nauseum in other threads. Either way, sitting at a table is not the best way to order omakase because your interface to the sushi chefs is your waiter. They can't see your face or mouth or general disposition, and this would explain the disconnect. Get your money's worth and sit at the bar. BUT, you've been there 10 times already! If you're resigned to a table, tell them what you like and don't like, and as long as you don't get the waiter in training, they should be able to assemble a great omakase for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omakase

Edited January 24, 2008 by raji (log)

[foodhunter]

Here's a question regarding 15 East's omakase (perhaps still relevant to this thread as it may be a general question regarding omakase at sushi restaurants that also have a number of hot kitchen items on the menu).

Have been to 15 East probably close to 10 times since it's opened.  Have always requested the omakase, or simply said 'yes' when our waiter asked if the chef should assemble our meal that evening. 

In the past, I always believed Masa put the line-up together, whether it be sushi bar or kitchen items.  In the beginning, these were very creatively done, usually something new in the 'hot' category and often items not found on the menu.

On my last few visits, it became apparent that the waiter was putting the omakase together -- i.e., selecting what came out of the kitchen and simply signaling Masa when it was time for the sushi bar to put out the next course (the sashimi platter or octupus, for example).  And on my most recent visit, our waiter seemed overwhelmed at the idea of the chef's tasting menu altogether.  They were slammed with customers that night, and it felt like the dishes were selected at random.

And even on occasions when I've my best meals at 15 East (at the sushi bar), I've witnessed a haphazard approach to assembling the omakase for other tables in the dining room (based on the discussions I would overhear between the waiters and Masa).

So I guess my question is one of terminology.  At 15 East, is the omakase the same thing as the chef's tasting?  According to the menu, it all seems to be the same price ($120).  Should I be asking for the omakase and specifying that it only be of items from the sushi bar?  My impression is there is another chef at work in the kitchen, and I've always been somewhat disappointed with the dishes that have come out of there (with the exception of Hideji Asanuma's soba).

←

There is mass confusion concerning omakase outside of the Japan - it's really something that is lost/confused in translation. Chef's tasting is a bit different because it doesn't really change per person - a true omakase should. True to it's meaning, ordering omakase means you should get a guided tour of what's good and in season at that sushiya. Pricing should always be ($xx AND UP) - the price of an omakase is just a minimum, and it would only cost you that if you only want as many pieces as included in whatever the "stock" omakase is that day. And this is if you don't give the chef more information as to what you like and dislike or want to try that day. I've written about omakase ad nauseum in other threads. Either way, sitting at a table is not the best way to order omakase because your interface to the sushi chefs is your waiter. They can't see your face or mouth or general disposition, and this would explain the disconnect. Get your money's worth and sit at the bar. BUT, you've been there 10 times already! If you're resigned to a table, tell them what you like and don't like, and as long as you don't get the waiter in training, they should be able to assemble a great omakase for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omakase

←

raji, to clarify, I've been to 15 east numerous times and have always sat at the sushi bar. masa seems to know my sushi preferences quite well, and we've discussed some of his more unique offerings on numerous occasions. my original question was more along the lines of what the various terminology on 15 east's menu refer to. ultimately what i'm looking for is exactly what you describe, an omakase meal that is tailor-made to my tastes and incorporating what is best that evening. when it comes to the sushi and sashimi portions of the meal, the 'chef's tasting' at 15 east deliver on that front. but i also get a lot of the kitchen stuff that i'm usually not too impressed with. so again, i'm trying to figure out how to communicate this to the staff. a previous post suggested ordering a sashimi plate and the sushi chef's tasting menu.. perhaps that is the way to go?

[Todd36]

1. My one experience with 15 East suggests that it is a fashion oriented restaurant and not a place to spend money in search of good sushi----its well overpriced for what you get.

2. I'm suspicious about anyone who says that shipping costs make live uni too expensive. For one

thing, they frequently sell live uni at Citerellia. And its not that expensive. They cost $5 a piece on Cataina Offshore's web site. And I've seen them for around $15 at restaurants in NYC.

3. There are several different species of uni that people eat---the ones from Maine are different I believe from CA and both are different from those in Japan. I know that at least some of the time,

they've been from Maine at Sugiyama.

[raji]

ultimately what i'm looking for is exactly what you describe, an omakase meal that is tailor-made to my tastes and incorporating what is best that evening. when it comes to the sushi and sashimi portions of the meal, the 'chef's tasting' at 15 east deliver on that front. but i also get a lot of the kitchen stuff that i'm usually not too impressed with.  so again, i'm trying to figure out how to communicate this to the staff.  a previous post suggested ordering a sashimi plate and the sushi chef's tasting menu.. perhaps that is the way to go?

Oh - well that's easy. Just tell them you want all nigirizushi and some sashimi. I'm not all that familiar with their menu, but if there are omakases and tasting menus that don't list their contents, then they will tailor it for you, and if not, doesn't sound like it's any more expensive to order a la carte there anyway, as pricey as it is.

This is all easier at the bar, usually sushi chefs will ask me when to switch from sashimi to sushi to maki etc.

If you go there so much, you should know what their strengths and weaknesses are by now

2. I'm suspicious about anyone who says that shipping costs make live uni too expensive. For one

thing, they frequently sell live uni at Citerellia. And its not that expensive. They cost $5 a piece on Cataina Offshore's web site. And I've seen them for around $15 at restaurants in NYC.

If you knew which sushi chefs I talk to, I doubt you'd be suspicious.

"Consumption Roe

Sea urchin roe is considered a delicacy in Japan, where it is primarily served raw in sushi. The Japanese name for sea urchin roe is uni." Most sea urchin roe buyers at Tokyo's Tsukiji Central Wholesale Market purchase for expensive traditional Japanese-style restaurants which demand extremely high quality in both appearance and taste.

Although some imported sea urchin roe is currently shipped to Hokkaido and northern Honshu for processing, inferior quality has prevented an increased market share for imported roe. The demand for sea urchin roe is seasonal, with the largest amount being consumed in December. Sea urchin roe is marketed in different product forms: Fresh (nama uni), frozen (reito uni), baked and frozen (yaki uni), steamed (mushi uni), and salted (shio uni). Salting is used primarily for lower-grade roe. Two fermented urchin roe products are also popular in Japan: Neri uni (a blended urchin paste) and tsubi uni (a lumpy paste). Live Urchin

Virtually no live imported sea urchin is sold at the Tsukiji Market. Buyers of live sea urchin usually prefer the domestic Japanese sea urchin which is limited in supply. Because of the difficulties in shipping and handling live, whole sea urchins, Japanese importers generally prefer to have the roe processed at the place of origin. "

Edited January 29, 2008 by raji (log)

[JWangSDC]

ultimately what i'm looking for is exactly what you describe, an omakase meal that is tailor-made to my tastes and incorporating what is best that evening. when it comes to the sushi and sashimi portions of the meal, the 'chef's tasting' at 15 east deliver on that front. but i also get a lot of the kitchen stuff that i'm usually not too impressed with.  so again, i'm trying to figure out how to communicate this to the staff.  a previous post suggested ordering a sashimi plate and the sushi chef's tasting menu.. perhaps that is the way to go?

Oh - well that's easy. Just tell them you want all nigirizushi and some sashimi. I'm not all that familiar with their menu, but if there are omakases and tasting menus that don't list their contents, then they will tailor it for you, and if not, doesn't sound like it's any more expensive to order a la carte there anyway, as pricey as it is.

This is all easier at the bar, usually sushi chefs will ask me when to switch from sashimi to sushi to maki etc.

If you go there so much, you should know what their strengths and weaknesses are by now

2. I'm suspicious about anyone who says that shipping costs make live uni too expensive. For one

thing, they frequently sell live uni at Citerellia. And its not that expensive. They cost $5 a piece on Cataina Offshore's web site. And I've seen them for around $15 at restaurants in NYC.

If you knew which sushi chefs I talk to, I doubt you'd be suspicious.

"Consumption Roe

Sea urchin roe is considered a delicacy in Japan, where it is primarily served raw in sushi. The Japanese name for sea urchin roe is uni." Most sea urchin roe buyers at Tokyo's Tsukiji Central Wholesale Market purchase for expensive traditional Japanese-style restaurants which demand extremely high quality in both appearance and taste.

Although some imported sea urchin roe is currently shipped to Hokkaido and northern Honshu for processing, inferior quality has prevented an increased market share for imported roe. The demand for sea urchin roe is seasonal, with the largest amount being consumed in December. Sea urchin roe is marketed in different product forms: Fresh (nama uni), frozen (reito uni), baked and frozen (yaki uni), steamed (mushi uni), and salted (shio uni). Salting is used primarily for lower-grade roe. Two fermented urchin roe products are also popular in Japan: Neri uni (a blended urchin paste) and tsubi uni (a lumpy paste). Live Urchin

Virtually no live imported sea urchin is sold at the Tsukiji Market. Buyers of live sea urchin usually prefer the domestic Japanese sea urchin which is limited in supply. Because of the difficulties in shipping and handling live, whole sea urchins, Japanese importers generally prefer to have the roe processed at the place of origin. "

←

I will confirm this with Yasuda and Masato in the coming months and try to get more honest insight into their uni selection. I wouldn't be surprised to hear them say "it's just a matter of profit".

[mtgtimewalker]

2. I'm suspicious about anyone who says that shipping costs make live uni too expensive. For one

thing, they frequently sell live uni at Citerellia. And its not that expensive. They cost $5 a piece on Cataina Offshore's web site. And I've seen them for around $15 at restaurants in NYC.

If you knew which sushi chefs I talk to, I doubt you'd be suspicious.

"Consumption Roe

Sea urchin roe is considered a delicacy in Japan, where it is primarily served raw in sushi. The Japanese name for sea urchin roe is uni." Most sea urchin roe buyers at Tokyo's Tsukiji Central Wholesale Market purchase for expensive traditional Japanese-style restaurants which demand extremely high quality in both appearance and taste.

Although some imported sea urchin roe is currently shipped to Hokkaido and northern Honshu for processing, inferior quality has prevented an increased market share for imported roe. The demand for sea urchin roe is seasonal, with the largest amount being consumed in December. Sea urchin roe is marketed in different product forms: Fresh (nama uni), frozen (reito uni), baked and frozen (yaki uni), steamed (mushi uni), and salted (shio uni). Salting is used primarily for lower-grade roe. Two fermented urchin roe products are also popular in Japan: Neri uni (a blended urchin paste) and tsubi uni (a lumpy paste). Live Urchin

Virtually no live imported sea urchin is sold at the Tsukiji Market. Buyers of live sea urchin usually prefer the domestic Japanese sea urchin which is limited in supply. Because of the difficulties in shipping and handling live, whole sea urchins, Japanese importers generally prefer to have the roe processed at the place of origin. "

←

To add a little more details (from some interviews done with the distributors of uni in Tsukiji Market), besides shipping costs, the main reason why most uni are sold in boxes rather than whole is because quality control.

The two advantages whole uni has over shelled uni are freshness (obviously) and lack of potassium alum (chemical product used during the shipping process of shelled uni to prevent it from melting). However, the bottom line is -- it is nearly impossible to tell the quality of an uni until you crack it open. Hence at the source, the uni would be shelled and then packaged according to their quality (and usually labelled accordingly). At big markets like Tsukiji, the distributors would double-check to ensure the quality of the uni match their labels and price listed. This system saves buyers the risk of buying bunch of whole uni of inconsistent qualities and ensures the consistency of quality control, at the cost of pure taste of uni (the use of potassium alum gives uni a bitter taste no matter how tiny the amount used, though in top-quality shelled uni you can hardly taste it unless your taste bud is ultra-sensitive).

The reason why there is limited number of imported live uni in Japan is the same. There is just too much risk that the importers would end up with incosisent qualities on top of the already high shipping costs.

[JWangSDC]

2. I'm suspicious about anyone who says that shipping costs make live uni too expensive. For one

thing, they frequently sell live uni at Citerellia. And its not that expensive. They cost $5 a piece on Cataina Offshore's web site. And I've seen them for around $15 at restaurants in NYC.

If you knew which sushi chefs I talk to, I doubt you'd be suspicious.

"Consumption Roe

Sea urchin roe is considered a delicacy in Japan, where it is primarily served raw in sushi. The Japanese name for sea urchin roe is uni." Most sea urchin roe buyers at Tokyo's Tsukiji Central Wholesale Market purchase for expensive traditional Japanese-style restaurants which demand extremely high quality in both appearance and taste.

Although some imported sea urchin roe is currently shipped to Hokkaido and northern Honshu for processing, inferior quality has prevented an increased market share for imported roe. The demand for sea urchin roe is seasonal, with the largest amount being consumed in December. Sea urchin roe is marketed in different product forms: Fresh (nama uni), frozen (reito uni), baked and frozen (yaki uni), steamed (mushi uni), and salted (shio uni). Salting is used primarily for lower-grade roe. Two fermented urchin roe products are also popular in Japan: Neri uni (a blended urchin paste) and tsubi uni (a lumpy paste). Live Urchin

Virtually no live imported sea urchin is sold at the Tsukiji Market. Buyers of live sea urchin usually prefer the domestic Japanese sea urchin which is limited in supply. Because of the difficulties in shipping and handling live, whole sea urchins, Japanese importers generally prefer to have the roe processed at the place of origin. "

←

To add a little more details (from some interviews done with the distributors of uni in Tsukiji Market), besides shipping costs, the main reason why most uni are sold in boxes rather than whole is because quality control.

The two advantages whole uni has over shelled uni are freshness (obviously) and lack of potassium alum (chemical product used during the shipping process of shelled uni to prevent it from melting). However, the bottom line is -- it is nearly impossible to tell the quality of an uni until you crack it open. Hence at the source, the uni would be shelled and then packaged according to their quality (and usually labelled accordingly). At big markets like Tsukiji, the distributors would double-check to ensure the quality of the uni match their labels and price listed. This system saves buyers the risk of buying bunch of whole uni of inconsistent qualities and ensures the consistency of quality control, at the cost of pure taste of uni (the use of potassium alum gives uni a bitter taste no matter how tiny the amount used, though in top-quality shelled uni you can hardly taste it unless your taste bud is ultra-sensitive).

The reason why there is limited number of imported live uni in Japan is the same. There is just too much risk that the importers would end up with incosisent qualities on top of the already high shipping costs.

←

Now this makes sense. I'm dying to try uni fresh from it's shell, but I have had a long standing feeling that everyone preaching the freshness and taste of such uni, is just peddling hype. Of course, as of now that's just an educated guess. I'd have to try for myself to really know; but many factors lead me to believe this is true.