BBQ Question

[jm chen]

Asking on behalf of someone on behalf of someone. You know the drill.

Is there a BBQ restaurant in the DC area that's appropriate for a date?

In DC proper I can think of 3 places that offer barbecue. Capital Q has the best 'cue, but is crowded and small and undatey. Rocklands is the same way but without the great 'cue. And Old Glory has plenty of space, but inferior 'cue.

I'm not sure why barbecue was offered up as a requisite for the date, and if I were the girl in question I wouldn't expect to mesh nice surroundings with this particular cuisine, but... anyway, I said I'd put the question in front of the experts.

Experts?

As if that's not enough of a challenge, I am not sure whether either of the people involved has a car.

Jael

[captainjaroslav]

I'd have to back up your supposition that it might just not be a date-friendly cuisine. Unless of course the date loves BBQ as much as I do. Pulling rib meat off the bone with your teeth or eating a big, sloppy, pulled pork or Texas-style brisket sandwich just doesn't seem right paired with white tablecloths and candlelight. And if the place doesn't serve these things, is it really BBQ?

[V.H.]

Capital Q has the best 'cue

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You are so right on that statement. I dream about their brisket. Mmmm...

For a date, I would suggest going right on down to Capital Q, which is right there at the MCI Center/Chinatown Metro stop. After some luscious Q, take a walk down to Jaleo and get some killer dessert at the bar.

[oliveDC]

I'm mentioning this even though I've heard mixed things about the 'cue because the place has table cloths and is metro accessible: Riedel's

Now if I were the date in question, I'd consider an act of confidence for someone to take me to a divey spot. So I'm seconding V.H.'s suggestion for a meal at Capital Q with cocktails, dessert, etc at one of the more upscale spots. Hell, with the money he saves eating at Cap Q, he might be able to buy his date one of those $15 drinks at Oya.

[MelGold]

Carpool in Ballston is good for a casual date - the BBQ is decent (not great, but decent), the beer is cold, and if you need entertainment after dinner there's pool tables and darts...try to sit outside if it's a pretty evening.

[bookluvingbabe]

Reidels at Van Ness and Connecitcut has decent BBQ and a nice-ish atmosphere.

[jm chen]

Thanks for the input so far, everyone! We were hoping that the girl in question is cool enough to enjoy Capital Q, and making it just one stop in the area could make for a nice evening. I'll pass the recommendations along.

[Soup]

I'm actually back of Capital Q from my office. IMHO I don't think that Cap Q is that great. Have eaten there 3 times (brisket each time) and haven't found it to be that great.

I'm still doubtful that you can find great BBQ in DC (but I also have tried a few places yet) but for a date why not try the Rockland's in Arlington near Ballston. Carpool is attached to it and you can eat and play pool darts etc. at the Carpool.

Soup

[Al_Dente]

I'm still doubtful that you can find great BBQ in DC (but I also have tried a few places yet) but for a date why not try the Rockland's in Arlington near Ballston.  Carpool is attached to it and you can eat and play pool darts etc. at the Carpool. 

Soup

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Rockland's makes some decent stuff-- by DC standards anyway.

Another advantage of Carpool is if your date doesn't work out, there are plenty of other single young ladies in the vicinity.

[The Doctor]

Have to chip in here, I've never had an experience at Capital Q that beat any experience at Rockland's.

That said, after trying some more authentic joints in the burbs recently, I don't put Rockland's on a pedestal anymore either.

I know nothing of this Reidel's, but if I were in this position, I might reconsider Old Glory. If you're already resigned to just having mediocre BBQ anyways, you might as well do it in a place with decent table service and a cool atmosphere.

[Mayhaw Man]

I usually don't try to give personal advice, but, well, this subject calls for an exception.

Man, if she doesn't like BBQ, and gets all flipped out with a little sauce on her clothes......

It's your life. Make the right decisions the first time.

[Busboy]

I'm with Brooks. Kind of. Forget the service, pick up something to-go from wherever you think best, and go down to the river over by FDR memorial or the Jefferson and watch the sun go down. Bring a six-pack and a roll of paper towels.

If she passes that test, take her out for drinks at Madam's Organ afterwards.

[divalasvegas]

I usually don't try to give personal advice, but, well, this subject calls for an exception.

Man, if she doesn't like BBQ, and gets all flipped out with a little sauce on her clothes......

It's your life. Make the right decisions the first time.

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I'm with you Mayhaw Man and Busboy on this one. I can't imagine wanting to know anyone who didn't like barbeque, let along date him. Also--my prejudice is showing--I'd be suspicious of an "upscale, white table cloth" barbeque joint/fine dining establishment. Having said all that, I wish I could make a recommendation in DC. The place I've enjoyed barbeque, as well as the sides, the most in this area is Famous Dave's in Woodbridge. I know that there are a lot of bbq purists in eGullet and I'm sure there's better to be had across the nation, but I like it. Actually, the absolute best bbq spareribs I've ever tasted was at a place in St. Paul, Minnesota called the St. Clair Broiler; coincidentally the same state where Famous Dave's originated. I mean both the ribs and sauce tasted like food that should be entered into prestigious bbq cookoffs.

Now a couple of requests:

First, I'm sure there are some great threads in eGullet on bbq. Could any of you direct me to those you think are the most informative? Secondly, as a native Washingtonian I have never gotten a good answer as to why it is so hard to find good barbeque in DC or the nearby suburbs. Can anyone tell me why? Is it as I fear in regards to trying to find quality representations of other cuisines, that the Metro DC palate (present company excluded) may have been so dumbed down over the years you can sell us ANYTHING?

[Mayhaw Man]

I'm with Brooks. Kind of. 

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I'm pretty sure that is what most people consider to be a safe place with me. I think I remember my wife, 21 years ago, when the hippie minister asked her . "Do you take this man to be your lawful wedded husband?" that her answer was something like, "I do, kind of".

As for BBQ in DC, I don't think that the situation is as bad, or as unusual as you might think. For all of the talk about all of these legendary BBQ places all over the Deep South, and occasionally elsewhere-Memphis Minnie's in San Francisco comes to mind, it's pretty terrific- there really aren't that many great ones. Of course, putting that into perspective, even the average ones in the South are probably better than most of the big city wannabees, but not always. There are many many things that can go wrong when cooking a cheap cut of meat for a very long time. It's pretty easy to do OK, moderately difficult to do well, and damn near impossible to do specatacularly.

Later this Spring, and early this Summer eGullet will be hosting a related series of events involving BBQ-not only how to, but why and what for and who. We are still working on the particulars, but it is shaping up to be something that even BBQ neophytes can take an interest in and real BBQ freaks will positively love. Stay tuned to this station for more late breaking announcements.

[Steve Klc]

Secondly, as a native Washingtonian I have never gotten a good answer as to why it is so hard to find good barbeque in DC or the nearby suburbs. Can anyone tell me why? Is it as I fear in regards to trying to find quality representations of other cuisines, that the Metro DC palate (present company excluded) may have been so dumbed down over the years you can sell us ANYTHING?

diva--that's a much larger, and more general discussion, at least in terms of the dumbed-down DC palate. But our region's collective palate--and its approach to food--has been too tolerant of convenience and too accepting of mediocrity for decades, but I see this in most of the country not just here. I'm not up on national barbecue-specific history, but I've always thought our region has always had more alternatives, more high end, more New American, more ethnic dining choice and diversity, than almost all of the barbecue-rich regions in the South and Midwest. I never got the sense we embraced barbecue as our own and certainly never touted it in a primary way, say, as a Carolina or Louisville or Kansas City or "insert name of southern city here" touted its barbecue as part of a definition of its region. We may have had the dedicated little shacks and smokestacks out in the sticks but much of our culinary focus has always revolved around the downtown core--and as more and more people moved out to the burbs to raise their families, enduring longer commutes on inadequate roads, their focus became their strip malls. That would hinder anyone's palate growth. And as has been mentioned on quite a few other threads--it's not like our region's transportation planners and consultants have done a decent job enabling us to get around the region as we've continued to grow.

I think your real question, though, of why there aren't more good independent barbecue joints out in those burbs even today--is a valid one--but it's not like there are many good independent anythings out in those burbs--even the more accessible kid friendly pizza and pasta places have a tough time making it, leveraged out of space by franchises and more corporate entities because of better margins. The independent "ethnic" destinations become more homogeneous, more predictable, because that's what their clientele wants: if that weren't the case, there would be more restaurants emulating the approach of Bangkok 54 and Minh's, rather than mailing it in.

When John Snedden opened his first Rocklands location in Glover Park it was a breath of fresh air--it was very good then and even with expansion it still is very good, unlike, say, Red Hot & Blue, which opened strong and then declined rapidly over time, or Old Glory, which was never more than merely adequate for tourists in an area with relatively poor dining options.

I too think Famous Dave's Woodbridge does an at least adequate to pretty good job--it's kind of like the job Rio Grande does within its genre: if you're careful about what you order, and don't have too much of a purist's agenda or overt chip on your shoulder going in--you can get some very good ribs or fajitas, at a fair price, with good service and refilled iced teas with real lemon wedges albeit in a hokey environment. Measured against strip mall, edge city and suburban fare in general, places like Famous Dave's and Rio Grande are in the top tier--frankly, Famous Daves is the best "restaurant" option in their area (Potomac Mills-IKEA-Best Buy) not just the best "barbecue" option. Second-best is probably a tie between the Chik-Fil-A across the street and the IKEA Cafe. Sad, I know, but that's what all of us are up against. That's also why Famous Daves is always, always packed.

Rocklands I place just a rung higher. All of them--Rocklands, Rio Grande and Famous Daves belong on a some kind of pedestal, though, given the number of terribly mediocre alternatives which surround them--it's just that their pedestals, and our collective awareness, isn't that high to begin with.

There are now at least a handful of proven destinations in Courthouse/Clarendon (where I live) that are worth a drive even if you don't live here--Ray's and Minh's still lead the way in their niches. They offer better, more interesting, cooking, in what they do, than what you have available in your neighborhood. Not much else here surpasses being merely a good neighborhood option--though at least we're lucky to have other good options. In terms of barbecue, I still find myself returning to the Carpool Rocklands for brisket, and I'd drive there or to the Glover Park Rocklands for it, along with some mustard greens and mashed potatoes. If you ever have a chance to have John and Rocklands cater a party you're throwing, do so without hesitation--and ask him to do a whole pig for you. It's delish. But overall, I think most people in our area will find barbecue comparable to Rocklands wherever they live. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, unless you're looking to put your Calvin Trillin hat on and wax poetic.