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Demo: Sculpting A Cake


chefpeon

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I'm all by myself in the bake shop (well, I share space with a caterer) so coming here makes me feel connected to others who are passionate about pastry, cakes, food and the food industry. And there's always something to learn from everyone here, and people are fantastic about answering questions and helping solve problems.

Thanks, Annie, for sharing. That was a great design to show, thanks for taking the time. You rock!

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Thanks so much for answering my (and all) the questions!!

I TOTALLY understand what you mean by your pricing "strategy". I do the same. If a customer seems like they're going to be a pain they get my "special" pricing structure. They get the PIA fee which ranges depending on how crabby I am! Glad to see I'm not the only one!

Also thanks for the info on the chocolate. I'll definitely have to work that back into my decorating box because I stopped using it because it never seemed to work right for me.

It seems like you really enjoyed doing this cake and I'm glad you did. We all need an opportunity to do work that we actually *want* to do occasionally, for fun... to rejuvinate our senses, even if it isn't paid.

Question: You say you used modelling chocolate rather than fondant because it's less stretchy. I'm assuming by modelling chocolate you mean the chocolate/corn syrup concoction? How is this less stretchy than fondant? It gets so warm in my hands whenever I do anything with it that it's far worse than fondant (for me) to deal with. I'm curious if you have a secret trick or something!!

Modeling chocolate isn't stretchy at all.....if.....you work it at a rather cool temperature. The key to working with modeling chocolate is to keep it cool. After I knead it, it's too warm to work with, so I flatten it out into a disk and throw it in the cooler for a few minutes. I'm constantly bringing my chocolate in and out of the walk-in, to keep it at the right temperature. Modeling chocolate that is too warm is totally un-manageable. Luckily I live in a cool climate....I can get away with a lot of things that my friends in warmer parts of the country can't. However, the summers can get pretty warm here, and there have been some days that I've had to do my chocolate work at night, because the days were too warm to do anything. Sometimes I'd have to work directly in the walk-in. I hated that. Anyway, after I rolled out, embossed, and cut my strips, I set them in the cooler for about 5 minutes, so they would be easy to handle and a cinch to get on my pots without losing their shape. With fondant or gumpaste, refrigerating does no good.....they're stretchy no matter what, and on top of that, the longer they sit the more they dry out, and then when you go to put the strip on your cake, you get ugly cracks. Modeling chocolate is the way to go when you need straight, exact type stuff......like pot rims.

Oh, and I also wanted to ask (and you don't have to answer if you don't want)...

If you had made this cake for sale, what would you have charged? It looks like it would have fed 80 people or so? I'm guessing a minimum of $6 a serving so around $500??

I knew someone would ask this! And, believe it or not, my price for this kind of work isn't set in stone. I have a general formula to figure it out.....sort of. This is going to be kind of confessional here, because my "formula" is more emotional than uh, practical. When I worked at the cake shop, the formula was "subject to quote from the pastry chef". This meant that my salesgirls couldn't quote a price on a big project, because only I knew the variables involved. They'd come back and tell me what the client wanted, how many people to feed, what my lead time was, how many other projects I had in that time frame, etc. Sometimes I'd talk to the client personally.....what am I saying? Gee, MOST of the time I talked to the client personally.

If the client was a real pain in the arse, I'd quote an outrageous price, just to make them go away. If my quote didn't make them go away, then whatever I quoted would be what it was worth for to me to deal with them. So, for instance, if you were a jerk and wanted that cake, and you wanted in less than a week, then I'd quote you $1800. But, if you were really nice, and gave me a huge lead time, I'd charge about $750. Think I'm kidding? Nope.....!

Most of the time though, I charge for my cakes based on difficulty levels, and the time it takes me to do them. My general formula was my (estimated hours) x (my wage, doubled). Then I'd add in the food cost and overhead, and that was the price. Then there's delivery and set-up fees if applicable.

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This is an awesome tutorial, an awesome design, but more importantly an INCREDIBLE work of art. You should be so proud of this... it's an incredible undertaking and you accomplished it as if it was a piece of cake (pun intended!).

Thank you so much for sharing your techniques, comments, pictures... it is incredibly helpful to those of us that hope to be half as good as you!!

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Dittos! What more can be said that hasn't already been said? Thank you SO much for posting this. It was extremely helpful to see everything step by step. Also, thank you for posting about your pricing. I start my pricing at a different level (less experience, different market), but I still have a hard time explaining to customers why cake should cost so much. I particularly love the brides that say, "Can you do this (Martha Stewart Wedding mag picture) for about $1, $1.50 a slice?" :wacko: Are you #%&* kidding me? I just tell them I'm booked that weekend. No sense trying to convince someone that dumb.

Can you explain a little more about how you approach the pricing right off? Do you find out their budget, or find out what they need first and say something like, "well, that will cost approximately xyz" and then delve into the details?

Thanks again for this awesome tutorial!

:wub: Katie

"First rule in roadside beet sales, put the most attractive beets on top. The ones that make you pull the car over and go 'wow, I need this beet right now'. Those are the money beets." Dwight Schrute, The Office, Season 3, Product Recall

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Since everyone agrees that this is such an excellent How-to, I suggest and propose that it be elevated to the status of an eGCI course. Don't want it to get lost here (though, from the response of appreciative fans, I doubt it will) in the distant future.

I actually think this is a great idea! I'd love to learn how to do just a simple starter-type cake. Nothing so advanced, mind you. And I suspect that living in Arizona will handicap me to some extent, esp as we are starting to get into triple digit weather. Can you post a picture or IM me some simple design(s) to cut my teeth on?

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I wish Rosemary Watson had not closed Sugar Bouquets.

Yeah, that's where I got mine.....I haven't purchased any new silicone molds in a long time.....where do you get them now?

Well now that Rosemary is gone there is a huge void in the market. :sad: The closest in quality is NY Miami Sweets aka Sunflower Arts and crafts at http://sunflowersugararts.com (although note some people have had difficulties ordering from them in the past I hear they have gotten better) You can buy some of their items also at http://www.beryls.com Their double sided veiners and presses for leaves and flowers(I have several of them) are really nice! Good quality and good detail. Their decorative molds are nice too. I have not yet ordered any of their lace molds.

Then there are the blue silicone molds from CK.

Another option for those who don't want to spend a ton on silicone molds is the foam press molds from Elegant Lace Impression in Oregon. http://www.elegantlacemolds.com I have quite a few of her lace wraps and collections molds. They work pretty well.

I still love Rosemary's stuff the best. :wub:

Thanks again Anne for all of your help!

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Also, thank you for posting about your pricing. I start my pricing at a different level (less experience, different market), but I still have a hard time explaining to customers why cake should cost so much. I particularly love the brides that say, "Can you do this (Martha Stewart Wedding mag picture) for about $1, $1.50 a slice?"  Are you #%&* kidding me? I just tell them I'm booked that weekend. No sense trying to convince someone that dumb.

Can you explain a little more about how you approach the pricing right off? Do you find out their budget, or find out what they need first and say something like, "well, that will cost approximately xyz" and then delve into the details?

Gosh, you know, I think I could start another thread all about cake pricing! I must say, as long as I've been doing it, it's still kind of a puzzler. But I've gotten better over the years at how I price my cakes out.

:laugh: First, though, you are SO RIGHT about the questions you get from brides......! The stories I could tell.....my oh my......! I always knew I was in trouble when the bride came in with the Martha magazine. "I really LOVE this cake! But I only want to spend $250!" Yarrrrgh.

Pricing cakes that I do over and over is a cinch. I know exactly how much time it will take me, and better yet, because I do them all the time, I'm more efficient with them and it's more profitable for me. Although I curse, and continue to curse, and will always curse Martha for as long as I shall live, she does provide me with a lot of brides that request the designs in her mag.

This can be a "good thing", because I can crank them out without a whole lot of effort. For instance, a few years ago her mag featured a cake with a fancy monogram on it. That really set a trend, and I've done tons of them. I now consider that design to be boring, but it's easy money.

But since I'm an artist at heart, most of the time I wish they'd just put the magazine away and let ME design something for them because I know it will be better, and more fun for me. I really enjoy doing my OWN designs....not other people's.

But back to price. One thing I always do early in the consultation is the money aspect. I may not know exactly how much to charge them at first, but I always know within a short period of time if we are talking about "big money" or not. If I suspect that their idea does involve big money, I tell them upfront......you are talking about spending at least "x" amount of dollars here. Either they blink, or they don't. If they don't blink then we proceed. If they do, then we start talking compromise, and I design something that better fits their budget. Often, when I take an order for a project that could be difficult and it's something I've not done before, I will tell my client that it will be at LEAST "x" amount of money, but I have to think it out and estimate my hours and methodology before I commit to a final figure. I think better when people aren't staring at me expectantly to pop out a price. I've done that before under pressure and severely underpriced myself, and cost my shop money. This is not a good thing to do!

When pricing wedding cakes, my prices start at $3.50 per serving and go up from there. $3.50 per serving includes some very nice basic piped designs.

Every decorator has to come up with their own pricing system. We all have our "specialties" or "fortes", and some of us will take longer with a certain design than another.... we're all comfortable with different things. For instance, I can crank out a Swiss Dot cake with my eyes closed, so I don't charge a whole lot for those. Another decorator may hate doing Swiss Dot, or it's more of a struggle for him/her to get the dots spaced out right without spending a lot of time at it, so they may charge more.

If I get a bride who is "shopping around", I always encourage her to do so, but also tell her that I don't negotiate. My price is my price. If she prefers to get a cake elsewhere for cheaper, then by all means. There's nothing that annoys me more than to have a bride call back and try to bargain me down by saying that "so and so" only charges "such and such". Well, great, then you need to get your cake from "so and so"!

People DO have a hard time understanding why cakes cost so much. In their mind, it's food, and food should be cheap (relatively). I just keep it simple because most people don't want to be lectured. I just tell them that time is money, and these cakes take time, plain and simple.

Oh, one more thing......before I discuss money with a client, I bring up the most important thing before we even START talking design.....and that question is, "when do you need it?" Would you believe that more often than not I get the answer, "this Saturday" or "tomorrow"? Yeah, sure ok, and for my next trick, I'm gonna pull a rabbit outta this hat!! :laugh:

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Gosh, you know, I think I could start another thread all about cake pricing! I must say, as long as I've been doing it, it's still kind of a puzzler. But I've gotten better over the years at how I price my cakes out.

I think it would be very helpful to have a thread on cake pricing. I'm just starting out and haven't figured out yet how much time certian things take, so I've had a hard time figuring out how to price things. It would help to know what all the rst of you are doing and how you calculate various things.

:smile:

Sherri A. Jackson
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Also, thank you for posting about your pricing. I start my pricing at a different level (less experience, different market), but I still have a hard time explaining to customers why cake should cost so much. I particularly love the brides that say, "Can you do this (Martha Stewart Wedding mag picture) for about $1, $1.50 a slice?"   Are you #%&* kidding me? I just tell them I'm booked that weekend. No sense trying to convince someone that dumb.

Can you explain a little more about how you approach the pricing right off? Do you find out their budget, or find out what they need first and say something like, "well, that will cost approximately xyz" and then delve into the details?

Gosh, you know, I think I could start another thread all about cake pricing! I must say, as long as I've been doing it, it's still kind of a puzzler. But I've gotten better over the years at how I price my cakes out.

:laugh: First, though, you are SO RIGHT about the questions you get from brides......! The stories I could tell.....my oh my......! I always knew I was in trouble when the bride came in with the Martha magazine. "I really LOVE this cake! But I only want to spend $250!" Yarrrrgh.

Pricing cakes that I do over and over is a cinch. I know exactly how much time it will take me, and better yet, because I do them all the time, I'm more efficient with them and it's more profitable for me. Although I curse, and continue to curse, and will always curse Martha for as long as I shall live, she does provide me with a lot of brides that request the designs in her mag.

This can be a "good thing", because I can crank them out without a whole lot of effort. For instance, a few years ago her mag featured a cake with a fancy monogram on it. That really set a trend, and I've done tons of them. I now consider that design to be boring, but it's easy money.

But since I'm an artist at heart, most of the time I wish they'd just put the magazine away and let ME design something for them because I know it will be better, and more fun for me. I really enjoy doing my OWN designs....not other people's.

But back to price. One thing I always do early in the consultation is the money aspect. I may not know exactly how much to charge them at first, but I always know within a short period of time if we are talking about "big money" or not. If I suspect that their idea does involve big money, I tell them upfront......you are talking about spending at least "x" amount of dollars here. Either they blink, or they don't. If they don't blink then we proceed. If they do, then we start talking compromise, and I design something that better fits their budget. Often, when I take an order for a project that could be difficult and it's something I've not done before, I will tell my client that it will be at LEAST "x" amount of money, but I have to think it out and estimate my hours and methodology before I commit to a final figure. I think better when people aren't staring at me expectantly to pop out a price. I've done that before under pressure and severely underpriced myself, and cost my shop money. This is not a good thing to do!

When pricing wedding cakes, my prices start at $3.50 per serving and go up from there. $3.50 per serving includes some very nice basic piped designs.

Every decorator has to come up with their own pricing system. We all have our "specialties" or "fortes", and some of us will take longer with a certain design than another.... we're all comfortable with different things. For instance, I can crank out a Swiss Dot cake with my eyes closed, so I don't charge a whole lot for those. Another decorator may hate doing Swiss Dot, or it's more of a struggle for him/her to get the dots spaced out right without spending a lot of time at it, so they may charge more.

If I get a bride who is "shopping around", I always encourage her to do so, but also tell her that I don't negotiate. My price is my price. If she prefers to get a cake elsewhere for cheaper, then by all means. There's nothing that annoys me more than to have a bride call back and try to bargain me down by saying that "so and so" only charges "such and such". Well, great, then you need to get your cake from "so and so"!

People DO have a hard time understanding why cakes cost so much. In their mind, it's food, and food should be cheap (relatively). I just keep it simple because most people don't want to be lectured. I just tell them that time is money, and these cakes take time, plain and simple.

Oh, one more thing......before I discuss money with a client, I bring up the most important thing before we even START talking design.....and that question is, "when do you need it?" Would you believe that more often than not I get the answer, "this Saturday" or "tomorrow"? Yeah, sure ok, and for my next trick, I'm gonna pull a rabbit outta this hat!! :laugh:

Love your scenerio about brides who want a Martha cake or some other world famous design. :biggrin:

It is truly amazing how much folks don't know about the labor involved with cakes.

While I will do wedding cakes, I have decided that wedding cakes will not be my niche because I feel I can't be creative as you mention because I have to make a copy of what people see in a magazine.

I like to create my own designs based on what my client's needs are.

Believe, Laugh, Love

Lydia (aka celenes)

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Thanks for the show. There was more useful information there than in a lot of the books I was looking at recently. I bailed out of doing my niece's wedding cake for last weekend because it was just too daunting. She wanted that topsy turvy mad hatter thing, which now I think I could have pulled off, but I also would have had to transport it 100 miles. The cake they wound up with looked the part, but tasted like crap. I have a bucket of Satin Ice I may pull out and play with after seeing your tutorial.

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Oh, one more thing......before I discuss money with a client, I bring up the most important thing before we even START talking design.....and that question is, "when do you need it?" Would you believe that more often than not I get the answer, "this Saturday" or "tomorrow"? Yeah, sure ok, and for my next trick, I'm gonna pull a rabbit outta this hat!! :laugh:

Heh. I hate it when the first question is "How much lead time do you need for a cake order?" My answer is always "more than you're about to give me."

Good info on pricing. Thanks for sharing.

B. Keith Ryder

BCakes by BKeith

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I usually dislike those kind of cakes but I just burst into a huge smile looking at your post. That cake is just beautiful (and dare i say cute).

I have made hundreds of wedding cakes but I would never have the patience -- or TALENT -- to make a cake like that. To get the structure, the colours and the balance right you really have to be an artist.

BRAVO! -- And I bet it tasted great as well.

I'm going back to look at it again. :smile: Just to cheer me up.

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