Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Sign in to follow this  
Dejah

Joong & Joongzi: The Topic

Recommended Posts

As Ben Sook requested:

"Ladies and Gentlemen, I propose a JOONG cook off. Strut your stuff, O Ye of stout heart and nimble fingers".  :biggrin:

How many of you make and indulge in joong in May? Do you know the history behind this tradition? What are your family recipes?

This is my joong session from last year:

http://www.hillmans.soupbo.com/soos/joongzi.html

May is always a busy teaching time for me so I don't have a set date to make mine. I do have my supplies on hand, so I will enter the fray when I can no longer control the drooling! :laugh:

As with all cook-offs, it is never too late to enter! I am still trying to make my siu mai and more attempts with dan tart.


Edited by Dejah (log)

Dejah

www.hillmanweb.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be game but I don't know if I can get bamboo leaves in my area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The joong festival will be celebrated on June 11 here. Guess I'll wait a couple of weeks.......unless I can't stand drooling over all your joongs.


TPcal!

Food Pix (plus others)

Please take pictures of all the food you get to try (and if you can, the food at the next tables)............................Dejah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The joong festival will be celebrated on June 11 here. Guess I'll wait a couple of weeks.......unless I can't stand drooling over all your joongs.

I will probably make my supply around June...unless like tepee...I cannot wait...My freezer is empty of joong these days. :sad:


Dejah

www.hillmanweb.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, wow. No one in my family knows how to make joong. As for my grandmother - she prefers needle and thread over a wok and shovel. I do love joong though (even though its murder on my digestive tract). I'll definitely be looking foward to everyone's joong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait, how is joong hard on the digestive tract? I'd think it'd be pretty gentle...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are 2 schools of thought; some (actually, a lot of folks I know) say glutinous rice is tough on the digestive process, some say it actually aids digestion. I suppose it depends on your yin-yang make-up. :smile:


Edited by Tepee (log)

TPcal!

Food Pix (plus others)

Please take pictures of all the food you get to try (and if you can, the food at the next tables)............................Dejah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really?!?!?! It's just rice...I can't imagine it imparing your digestion in the least bit. It's not like it's durian or something.

Huh. Ya learn something new every day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally don't think that glutinous (sticky) rice affects the digestive tract more than any other rice, I think that the problem may be the "liu" or haum that is in them, like fat pork, beans, chinese sausage, egg yolk, etc. I am always receptive to corrections of my thought processes these days. :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand that glutinous rice (or at least the way it's normally prepared by Chinese) is considered a "hot" food so that if you eat too much you will supposedly have problems with yeet hay, or "hot air."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi

I think the reason why some of us say that glutinous rice is hard on the digestive tract is that typically for glutinous rice dishes it is steamed just to the point that it is done.

This means that it is hard and has less moisture then normal white rice and as it is dryer it can continue to absorb more water so when you eaten it it expands in your stomache and as such gives some people indigestion.

well that the theory anyway. :unsure:


"so tell me how do you bone a chicken?"

"tastes so good makes you want to slap your mamma!!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you know the history behind this tradition? What are your family recipes?

not sure on the accuracy but the story I was told was Qu Yuan a popular famous chinese scholar in the olden days got drunk fell off his boat and drowned or was it suicide? :unsure: anyway the bloke drown in the river.

The local townsfolk after hearing that he had drowned wanted to find his body as such they threw joong into the river so that the fish would eat the joong and not the body and they also beat their drums to scare the fish away thats also the origins of dragon boat racing.

althought thinking about it that rather silly the food would attract more fish :raz:

anyway my family recipe is

soak, clean and boil the leaves

glutinous rice

yellow beans

a piece of fatty pork marinated in five spice and other stuff

some chestnuts

some shittake mushroom

some dried shrimps.

wrap up in leaves and tie with string cook in big pot for a few hours

eat :wub:


"so tell me how do you bone a chicken?"

"tastes so good makes you want to slap your mamma!!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The local townsfolk after hearing that he had drowned wanted to find his body as such they threw joong into the river so that the fish would eat the joong and not the body and they also beat their drums to scare the fish away thats also the origins of dragon boat racing.

This part mostly jives with what I've understood to be the story, although I'm not sure about the dragon boat tangent,, but it's plausible.

not sure on the accuracy but the story I was told was Qu Yuan a popular famous chinese scholar in the olden days got drunk fell off his boat and drowned or was it suicide?  :unsure: anyway the bloke drown in the river.

This doesn't jive as much.


Herb aka "herbacidal"

Tom is not my friend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

June 11 is the date of the Chinese Dragon Boat Festival, and I will be holding the first of 2 joongzi sessions at my house starting at noon! This time around, I will be "teaching" some friends how to make these. They are both in bi-racial marriages, one to re-educate herself, the other to please her Chinese husband, her family and herself! :biggrin: I'll take pictures!

After the festival, my Mom and I will make our family and Ben Sook's supply. :laugh:

Anyone else making joong? Tepee? origamicrane? Herb? Yetti?


Dejah

www.hillmanweb.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyone else making joong? Tepee? origamicrane? Herb? Yetti?

hmmm.....

I'll ask my mum see if she's feeling mad enough :laugh:

If she is I'll take loads of photos too and make a photo tutorial.

The problem with making zoong in my household is that we have to make loads for our extended family and a few for the workers in the restaurant.

We usually end up making over 80! and each one I think weighs close to a kilo each!!

by the way whats the official english name for zoong???

as i find it hard to explain to my non chinese friends :unsure:


"so tell me how do you bone a chicken?"

"tastes so good makes you want to slap your mamma!!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Woohoo! My tiny local Chinese grocery store just received a shipment of bamboo leaves, so now I can have a go at making joong. I think I will use Grace Young's recipe. The only problem is that I'm not sure how to fold them (GY's explanations are pretty incomprehensible.)

Can anyone explain how to wrap them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anyone explain how to wrap them?

Hmm, I thought GY's instructions were pretty good, but then, that may be because I know how to wrap them! :unsure:

I couldn't begin to attempt an explanation. Why don't you soak some leaves, then practise by following GY's instructions until you can figure it out?

GY 's method of soaking and cleaning the leaves is different from mine. I just sent instructions to my "students" and this is what I do:

"Two to three days before using, separate carefully and soak these in a big tub. When they are pliable,wash each by running each leave between your thumb and other fingers to remove any dirt residue. Then boil in small batches for 5 - 10 minutes in big pot of water with 1/2 cup vinegar. You don't need to change water or add more vinegar with each batch. Some people don't do this step, but I find the leaves are easier to work with. Drain, lay them all in one direction and keep moist until ready to use.(big garbage bag works well) Never press down on the leaves at any time!"

Also, I don't soak my rice for an hour. I just wash and drain, then season. And Lordy! I never boil my tamales for 5 hours! :shock: 2.5 hours is plenty long enough. Mine were boiled by mistake for 4 hours once...and once was enough.


Dejah

www.hillmanweb.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyone else making joong? Tepee? origamicrane? Herb? Yetti?

by the way whats the official english name for zoong???

as i find it hard to explain to my non chinese friends :unsure:

Grace Young calls them Savory Rice Tamales. That's the first time I've heard them called tamales. I always say sticky rice in bamboo leaves.

I think I will have you beat, origamicrane. My Mom and I usually make +150...This weekend, I will have 10 people for the session. 8 of my students want to come and learn also.


Dejah

www.hillmanweb.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, I thought GY's instructions were pretty good, but then, that may be because I know how to wrap them! :unsure:

I couldn't begin to attempt an explanation. Why don't you soak some leaves, then practise by following GY's instructions until you can figure it out?

I guess that's what I'll end up doing. I was hoping that someone would have pictures! :biggrin: GY's directions use 3 leaves per joong, but I've seen other recipes use only 2. How many does everyone else use?

Grace Young calls them Savory Rice Tamales. That's the first time I've heard them called tamales

That name undoubtedly originated in California, where even my Toisanese mother in LA knows what tamales are! Other than that I don't think there is an English name for them, as pretty much the only people who eat these are Chinese.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
    "Two to three days before using, separate carefully and soak these in a big tub. When they are pliable,wash each by running each leave between your thumb and other fingers to remove any dirt residue.

Be really careful running your fingers down those bamboo leaves, especially when they are dry. They cut easier than thin papers. It costed me a few scratches making zoong last yeat.

Then boil in small batches for 5 - 10 minutes in big pot of water with 1/2 cup vinegar.  You don't need to change water or add more vinegar with each batch. Some people don't do this step, but I find the leaves are easier to work with. Drain, lay them all in one direction and keep moist until ready to use.(big garbage bag works well) Never press down on the leaves at any time!"

Is there really a benefit boiling the bamboo leaves before wrapping? I just soak the leaves in water overnight, no boiling.


W.K. Leung ("Ah Leung") aka "hzrt8w"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess that's what I'll end up doing.  I was hoping that someone would have pictures!  :biggrin: GY's directions use 3 leaves per joong, but I've seen other recipes use only 2.  How many does everyone else use?

To use only 2 leaves, you gotta be:

1) Making a small size zoong

2) An expert in wrapping zoong

most of us amatuers use 3 leaves. Much easier to wrap. 2 for holding the "liu" (ingredients), 1 for covering... sort of.


W.K. Leung ("Ah Leung") aka "hzrt8w"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do think Chinese tamale is a better description than I've used/heard yet, but thus far it has been mostly irrelevant since much like Sheetz, I'm not yet aware of non-Chinese that have eaten them even once (although I'm sure there's a few out there somewhere), let alone regularly.


Herb aka "herbacidal"

Tom is not my friend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You've gotta be kidding, Herb. Joong are standard at dim sum places, are they not?


Michael aka "Pan

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You've gotta be kidding, Herb. Joong are standard at dim sum places, are they not?

Hmmm..... I don't think so.

I think you were thinking of "Nor Mi Gai" [Cantonese], which is wrapped with lotus leaves (sticky rice, pieces of chicken, black mushroom, dried shrimp, lap cheung). This is a standard dim sum item.

Joong, which is wrapped with bamboo leaves (sticky rice, mung beans, salted pork, salted egg, black mushroom (maybe), dried shrimp (maybe), lap cheung (maybe), - that's only one version of it... or other ingredients) is offered more commonly in dim sum restaurants in Hong Kong, and very rarely in North America (well, in the ones that I've been to anyway).


W.K. Leung ("Ah Leung") aka "hzrt8w"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • By liuzhou
      Perhaps the food-related question I get asked most through my blog is “What's it like for vegetarians and vegans in China. The same question came up recently on another thread, so I put this together. Hope it's useful. It would also, be great to hear other people's experience and solutions.
       
      For the sake of typing convenience I’m going to conflate 'vegetarians and vegan' into just 'vegetarian' except where strictly relevant.
       
      First a declaration of non-interest. I am very carnivorous, but I have known vegetarians who have passed through China, some staying only a few weeks, others staying for years. Being vegetarian in China is a complicated issue. In some ways, China is probably one of the best countries in which to be vegetarian. In other ways, it is one of the worst.
       
      I spent a couple of years in Gorbachev-era Russia and saw the empty supermarkets and markets. I saw people line up for hours to buy a bit of bread.  So, when I first came to China, I kind of expected the same. Instead, the first market I visited astounded me. The place was piled high with food, including around 30 different types of tofu, countless varieties of steamed buns and flat breads and scores of different vegetables, both fresh and preserved, most of which I didn't recognise. And so cheap I could hardly convert into any western currency. If you are able to self-cater then China is heaven for vegetarians. For short term visitors dependent on restaurants or street food, the story is very different.
       
      Despite the perception of a Buddhist tradition (not that strong, actually), very few Chinese are vegetarian and many just do not understand the concept. Explaining in a restaurant that you don't eat meat is no guarantee that you won't be served meat.
       
      Meat is seen in China as a status symbol. If you are rich, you eat more meat. And everyone knows all foreigners are rich, so of course they eat meat! Meat eating is very much on the rise as China gets more rich - even to the extent of worrying many economists, food scientists etc. who fear the demand is pushing up prices and is environmentally dangerous. But that's another issue. Obesity is also more and more of a problem.
      Banquet meals as served in large hotels and banquet dedicated restaurants will typically have a lot more meat dishes than a smaller family restaurant. Also, the amount of meat in any dish will be greater in the banquet style places.
       
      Traditional Chinese cooking is/was very vegetable orientated. I still see my neighbours come home from the market with their catch of greenery every morning. However, whereas meat wasn't the central component of dinner, it was used almost as a condiment or seasoning. Your stir fried tofu dish may come with a scattering of ground pork on top, for example. This will not usually be mentioned on the menu. Simple stir fried vegetables are often cooked in lard (pig fat) to 'improve' the flavour.
       
      Another problem is that the Chinese word for meat (肉), when used on its own refers to pork. Other meats are specified, eg (beef) is 牛肉, literally cattle meat. What this means is that when you say you don't eat meat, they often think you mean you don't eat pork (something they do understand from the Chinese Muslim community), so they rush off to the kitchen and cook you up some stir fried chicken! I've actually heard a waitress saying to someone that chicken isn't meat. Also, few Chinese wait staff or cooks seem to know that ham is pig meat. I have also had a waitress argue ferociously with me that the unasked for ham in a dish of egg fried rice wasn't meat.
       
      Also, Chinese restaurant dishes are often given have really flowery, poetic names which tell you nothing of the contents. Chinese speakers have to ask. One dish on my local restaurant menu reads “Maternal Grandmother's Fluttering Fragrance.” It is, of course, spicy pork ribs!
       
      Away from the tourist places, where you probably don't want to be eating anyway, very few restaurants will have translations of any sort. Even the best places' translations will be indecipherable. I have been in restaurants where they have supplied an “English menu”, but if I didn't know Chinese would have been unable to order anything. It was gibberish.
       
      To go back to Buddhism and Taoism, it is a mistake to assume that genuine followers of either (or more usually a mix of the two) are necessarily vegetarian. Many Chinese Buddhists are not. In fact, the Dalai Lama states in his autobiography that he is not vegetarian. It would be very difficult to survive in Tibet on a vegetarian diet.
       
      There are vegetarian restaurants in many places (although the ones around where I am never seem to last more than six months). In the larger cities such as Beijing and Shanghai they are more easily findable.
       
      Curiously, many of these restaurants make a point of emulating meat dishes. The menu reads like any meat using restaurant, but the “meat” is made from vegetable substitutes (often wheat gluten or konjac based).
       
      To be continued
    • By liuzhou
      I know a few people here know her already, but for those that don't, she is simply the best creator of Chinese food and rural life videos. It's not what you will find in your local Bamboo Hut! It's what Chinese people eat!
       
      Here is her latest, posted today. This is what all my neighbours are doing right now in preparation for Spring Festival (Chinese New Year to the Lantern Festival 15 days later), although few are doing it as elegantly as she does!
       
       
      Everything she posts is worth watching if you have any interest in food.
       
    • By liuzhou
      Wowotou buns ( 窝窝头 wō wō tóu), also known more simply as wō tóu are originally from northern China. The name means "nest" and they come in many forms. These are the ones I use. As you can see, they are usually stuffed with whatever the cook decides. These are stuffed with spicy pork and pickled greens, but I've also served them with a seafood stuffing.
       

       
      This is the recipe I usually use.
       
       窝窝头
       
      350 grams all-purpose/plain flour
      150 grams black soya bean flour
      3 grams instant yeast
      260 grams  milk
       
      Mix the flours well, dissolve the yeast in the milk and stir into the flour until a dough forms. Knead the dough until smooth. Cover with plastic
      wrap and leave in a warm place until double in size.
       
      Sprinkle flour on the chopping board, knead the dough, adding more flour if too wet. until all air is expelled and the dough has a smooth surface.
       
      Form the dough into six even-sized balls and rub between the palms until smooth and round. Flatten slightly, then use your thumb to press the dough into a nest shape.
       
      Steam covered for 30-35 minutes.
       
      Note: The flours used vary a lot. Corn or sorghum flours are very popular, but I don't like corn and sorghum isn't the easiest to find here in southern China. Use what you like, but the overall quantity for this recipe should be 500 grams. It has been suggested that pure corn flour is too sticky, so probably best to mix it with regular wheat flour.
       
      They freeze well.
       
      Recipe adapted from 念念不忘的面食  by 刘哲菲 (Unforgettable Wheat Foods by Liu Zhefei). This isn't a direct translation, but retelling of the gist. Any errors are mine. Not Ms. Liu's.
    • By liuzhou
      This arose from this topic, where initially @Anna N asked about tea not being served at the celebratory meal I attended. I answered that it is uncommon for tea to be served with meals (with one major exception). I was then asked for further elucidation by @Smithy. I did start replying on the topic but the answer got longer than I anticipated and was getting away from the originally intended topic about one specific meal. So here were are..
       
      I'd say there are four components to tea drinking in China.

      a) When you arrive at a restaurant, you are often given a pot of tea which people will sip while contemplating the menu and waiting for other  guests to arrive. Dining out is very much a group activity, in the main. When everyone is there and the food dishes start to arrive the tea is nearly always forgotten about. The tea served like this will often be a fairly cheap, common brand - usually green.
       
      You also may be given a cup of tea in a shop if your purchase is a complicated one. I recently bought a new lap top and the shop assistant handed me tea to sip as she took down the details of my requirements. Also, I recently had my eyes re-tested in order to get new spectacles. Again, a cup of tea was provided. Visit someone in an office or have a formal meeting and tea or water will be provided.
       
      b) You see people walking about with large flasks (not necessarily vacuum flasks) of tea which they sip during the day to rehydrate themselves. Taxi drivers, bus drivers, shop keepers etc all have their tea flask.  Of course, the tea goes cold. I have a vacuum flask, but seldom use it - not a big tea fan. There are shops just dedicated to selling the drinks flasks.
       
      c) There has been a recent fashion for milk tea and bubble tea here, two trends imported from Hong Kong and Taiwan respectively. It is sold from kiosks and mainly attracts younger customers. McDonald's and KFC both do milk and bubble teas.
       

      Bubble and Milk Tea Stall
       

      And Another
       

      And another - there are hundreds of them around!
       

      McDonald's Ice Cream and Drinks Kiosk.


      McDonald's Milk Tea Ad
       
      d) There are very formal tea tastings and tea ceremonies, similar in many ways to western wine tastings. These usually take place in tea houses where you can sample teas and purchase the tea for home use. These places can be expensive and some rare teas attract staggering prices. The places doing this pride themselves on preparing the tea perfectly and have their special rituals. I've been a few times, usually with friends, but it's not really my thing. Below is one of the oldest serious tea houses in the city. As you can see, they don't go out of their way to attract custom. Their name implies they are an educational service as much as anything else. Very expensive!
       

      Tea House

      Supermarkets and corner shops carry very little tea. This is the entire tea shelving in my local supermarket. Mostly locally grown green tea.
       

       

      Local Guangxi Tea
       
      The most expensive in the supermarket was this Pu-er Tea (普洱茶 pǔ ěr chá) from Yunnan province. It works out at ¥0.32per gram as opposed to ¥0.08 for the local stuff. However, in the tea houses, prices can go much, much higher!
       

       
       
    • By liuzhou
      Today, I was honoured to be invited to lunch in a relatively nearby Miao village, where they were celebrating their good harvest.
       
      Before we could eat we were entertained by the some of the villagers.


      These women sang to us.


      Some men played their traditional Lusheng instruments.
       

      Then they had a tug-of war between the men and the women. The women won (but there were twice as many women as men!)

      Most people just hung around looking good in their best leisure wear.


       

       

       

       

       

       
      Finally, we were seated at a table, but before we could eat, we had to toast each other.


      These were some of my table companions. Old friends.
       
       

      Each table was furnished with two dips. On the left chilli, coriander/cilantro, Chinese chives in soy and sesame oil. On the right, duck's blood with chilli. 


      Kou Rou - Roasted, then steamed pork belly and taro.
       

      Chicken
       

      If not this chap I had met earlier, then one of his relations.
       

      Chicken and duck giblets stir-fried with vegetables.
       

      Duck - Note beak on left so you are sure what you are eating.
       

      Deep fried carp
       

      Steamed Shrimp
       

      Water Spinach
       

      People watching people eating!
       

      Neighbouring Table
       

      All very amusing
       
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...