Kaitenzushi

[jrufusj]

Lazrowp:

In another thread here there was some discussion of kaitenzushi, including some great tips from smallworld on the hallmarks of the better places.

In any case, best of luck with your venture.

Jim

[mrbigjas]

So....how do people on the East coast (not including NYC) feel about "real" sushi???

i think i speak for every single east coast resident when i say we love it more than life itself, and would eat it every day if we could.

[BryanZ]

Kaitenzushi is something I hold very near and dear to my heart. Every time I go to Japan, I always look forward to going to Tsukiji Honten in Shibuya. I just got back from Japan and ate their twice. It's ridiculously cheap and always crowded, the two defining marks of a good kaitenzushi. Although the quality is obviously not the best, you can't go wrong when all the plates are 105 yen, less than a dollar. Needless to say, I eat more than my fair share in such an eating conducive environment. I've gotten up to 25 plates, 50 pieces, without that much trouble. I can't wait until I can go back.

[herbacidal]

i think i speak for every single east coast resident when i say we love it more than life itself, and would eat it every day if we could.

←

I think those of us who know James somewhat know that he is joking.

I do think there is a much broader acceptance of and willingness to try sushi here on the East Coast, at least in Philadelphia, than I recall was here a decade ago.

[Lazrowp]

- re:What are your likes and dislikes at kaitenzushi?

Back on January 17th 2005, I asked about likes and dislikes at sushi restaurants on “alt.food.sushi”. I have compiled a summary list below.

Note #1: these are for traditional sushi restaurants, not kaitenzushi restaurants

Note#2: these are for restaurants in America only therefore tipping and communication are not real issues in Japan like in America

Note#3: only the first six are from me.

Compiled from alt.food.sushi

• Having to ask for low-sodium soy sauce

• When the server does not know the brand name of the house "hot sake"

• Ordering any sashimi and not having the shiso leaf come w/the order (instead maybe being given some regular lettuce. lettuce no matter what kind, is not something that should be served with sashimi. Ever. Calls for punishment.)

• Not being given a spoon for agedashi tofu

• Ordering a roll and it automatically comes in the "inside-out roll" style. Why, and since when, has inside-out roll style replaced the more traditional seaweed-on-the-outside style?

• Female workers dressed in kimonos. Isn't that cruel and unusual punishment to force someone to work in that restrictive clothing in a U.S. restaurant environment? I rarely see a Chinese or Thai restaurant where the workers are still dressing in their native dress in order to "add flavor to the eating experience." Just serving delicious food in a nice environment should be enough. Kimonos should be left in the closet.

• Ordering an assortment and the server not being able to tell me what's what.

• Server not speaking English adequately to communicate well.

• Server not knowing specials.

• Specials board still listing things that are sold out.

• Lack of a specials board or any seasonal items.

• Waiters who don't know what the cold premium sake choices are.

• If you are sitting at the bar, the chef should be able to tell you everything you need to know. Otherwise, yes.. server should know these things.

• I have a hard time communicating with the sushi chefs at the bar when not at my usual haunts.

• Asking what is fresh today and being told everything.

• I do NOT appreciate hip joints and places with attitude. I do NOT like places where the staff are nattily dressed with thin ties and where they play hip music. If they have to do music, they should play traditional Japanese. Koto, shakuhachi. I prefer traditional decor, but PLEASE no ultra modern decor with or without Japanese anime robots.

• It would be nice if the specials board actually listed specials, instead of the same items all year round.

• Not being given a spoon for agedashi tofu…I would be more annoyed at being given a metal spoon instead of a traditional Renge (a white ceramic oval spoon of Chinese origin).

• Servers who fail to mention from the start which items they are out of, rather than waiting for me to order 10 things before they tell me which 5 things they are out of. Calls for death.

• when I order sashimi, nigiri, and maki... and the sushi comes first.

• When "spicy sauce" is just that.. straight hot sauce. I prefer spicy mayo.

• When the menu describes the sushi deluxe as (for example) "12 nigiris and a California roll" without describing what the 12 nigiris are. (Gee, if I had known I was going to get 4 each of whitefish, tuna, and salmon, I would’ve ordered a la carte instead).

• Lack of natto maki (I like it, but not many places serve it).

• Getting charged for green tea.

• having specials listed in Japanese, but not in English (presumably because they are things they think that Westerners won't eat.)

• I won't order combinations with Ca. rolls, unless they are willing to substitute. Some places do. Boo hiss to those that don't.

• I've even been charged for green tea TEABAGS! Getting charged for the hot towels. Not getting hot towels at all.

• A waiter should never tell a customer who orders something "No, you can't have that."

• poor sanitation

• Funny how rarely you bump into garlic at a Japanese place. Quite rare indeed. It's always a big shock. I guess don't like it there, as it tends to flavor everything after I eat it. For the same reason I

figured out why they don't have more robust beers, ales and such, at Japanese restaurants.

• Tipping. I've gone into places, and decided to get some takeout. You would not believe the look of disdain that I've seen on a server's face because I haven’t dropped a $10 bill into the tip jar. It's one thing to expect a tip if a person stays at the sushi bar, and eats there. It's quite another to get one just for walking in the place.

• I also cannot understand and am greatly offended by people who use their cell phones at the sushi bar.

Can you add anything specific to kaitenzushi?

Paul

[Hiroyuki]

Can you add anything specific to kaitenzushi?

Paul

←

- Each individual plate on the conveyor belt not managed properly. Who wants to eat stale sushi on a plate that's been on the belt for hours?

- Customers smoking. Sushi chefs smoking!

- What are your favorite kaitenzushi to go to and why (pictures are a plus)?

I moved out of Tokyo in 1990, and here in Shiozawa, there is only one kaitenzushi restaurant, so I really can't answer this question.

All I can say is that I like this place, called Sushi Douraku

http://www.citydo.com/prf/nigata/guide/sg/205000122.html

because human sushi chefs make nigiri, not robots, they use expensive Koshihikari rice for shari (vinegared rice), and they have tatami (straw mat) floor spaces where you can relax. Besides, they have ramen, tonkatsu (pork cutlets), pickles, tofu, and many other items, besides nigiri.

- What makes some kaitenzushi popular while some are not so great?

- Do you see kaitenzushi as just a gimmick?

I will answer these questions later.

[Hiroyuki]

Kura Corporation has been innovative in that it has developed a touch-panel system

Kura's new computer-graphics touch-panel system, which the sushi chain spent about 25 million yen (200,000 dollars) to develop jointly with Tokyo-based game maker Sega Corp., was installed at its Senboku outlet in Osaka.

from here:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/?articleID=1977

and in that it has developed 'muten kura zushi'. By 'muten', they mean that their shari is free from both artificial and natural additives. The rice is seasoned with 100% rice vinegar, natural dashi, sugar, and salt only. And, they serve "chilled neta and hitohada shari". Hitohada means human skin temperature.

They have installed high-tech systems:

a "time limit management" system whereby sushi is automatically discarded within (in?) 55 minutes,

a "plate counter" that counts the number of plates that each customer has eaten,

and a "sushi robot" that makes sushi sanitarily.

Links to other webpages containing some description of Kura Corporation:

http://web-japan.org/trends01/article/011126sci_r.html

http://www.japaninc.net/article.php?articleID=135

http://www.ikjeld.com/japannews/00000032.php

Another company worthy of mention is Kakiyazushi,

http://www.four-seeds.co.jp/kakiya/

which is operated by Four Seeds Corporation

http://www.four-seeds.co.jp/

which also operates PIZZA-LA.

http://www.pizza-la.co.jp/index.php

Kakiyazushi is a new type of kantenzushi restaurant aimed at females, providing a "modern, chic, and stylish" atmosphere (according to their website), using chairs imported from Italy and other items

http://www.hotpepper.jp/s/H000001487/top.html

(See the 2nd photo.)

http://www.tesoro.st/store/aohara/area03/003/

(See the 1st photo.)

[Lazrowp]

Welllllll....for better or worse, construction has begun on my kaitenzushi!!!!

I am working on throwing together a "time management system" of my own which is less costly that Kura's system. Do most of the kaitenzushi in Japan have these systems? I don't think so. For the places that don't have the system (US$30,000 - US$40,000) how do they ensure freshness?

I worked at a place in NYC and they said that they kept track of each plate visually but in reality that method is unreliable as it is impossible to remember every plate.

Separately, do you feel sushi is a late night food? Have you ever seen a kaitenzushi open late at night for business?

Paul

[AzianBrewer]

Had couple of bad incidents in Kaitenzushi...Not going back to one in the near future.

[Lazrowp]

Had couple of bad incidents in Kaitenzushi...Not going back to one in the near future.

←

What City? Within the past couple of years?

Paul

[torakris]

Separately, do you feel sushi is a late night food?  Have you ever seen a kaitenzushi open late at night for business? 

←

are you asking about the US or Japan?

[Lazrowp]

Separately, do you feel sushi is a late night food?  Have you ever seen a kaitenzushi open late at night for business? 

←

are you asking about the US or Japan?

←

When I lived in Osaka, I saw many traditional sushi places that were packed late-night, but no kaitenzushi. Here the the US, I have spoken w/people who feel that sushi is not a late-night food. I guess I am asking about both places, and what makes sushi a late-night food in Japan?

[JasonTrue]

Seems to me like ochazuke is a good late-night food.

In Seattle two places (Blue C, kaitenzushi) and Banzai (nightclub that happens to serve sushi, usually on Saran-wrapped naked people) do late night sushi and drinks.

I can't bring myself to eat at either one. Though it has little to do with the time of day.

[Hiroyuki]

Separately, do you feel sushi is a late night food?  Have you ever seen a kaitenzushi open late at night for business? 

←

In a word, a sushi ya is men's salon, as described in this article:

"Sushi restaurant culture has developed along with the corporate culture in Japan, which considered expensive sushi places as convenient venues for high-powered corporate entertaining. Naturally, those places have come to serve mainly male customers, especially men with power."

As a result, many of those establishments have come to play the role of exclusive salons, where regular customers and the chef develop a special bond. Those customers generally know a lot about sushi, and also know the prices, even though their host does not disclose them directly. "Women also go to such restaurants -- but generally they are accompanying those 'knowledgeable' men," Yuyama says.

I'll post the rest of my comments later.

[Hiroyuki]

I am working on throwing together a "time management system" of my own which is less costly that Kura's system.  Do most of the kaitenzushi in Japan have these systems?  I don't think so.  For the places that don't have the system (US$30,000 - US$40,000) how do they ensure freshness?

I worked at a place in NYC and they said that they kept track of each plate visually but in reality that method is unreliable as it is impossible to remember every plate.

←

Sorry for a belated reply.

I just mentioned the state of the art in the world of kaitenzushi because I thought that that's what you wanted to know, and I think you are quite right. Most kaitenzushi restaraunts in Japan still keep track of each plate visually, I think.

According to here (Japanese only), the number of plates disposed of was 100 before the system was installed and increased to 800 after the installation. Thus, Kura developed another system called a "manufacturing management system": When customers go into the restaurant, the cashier enters the number of them-how many adults and how many children. Based on that information, the difference between the number of plates that the customers will eat within 15 minutes from now on and the number of plates currently on the conveyor belt is determined. If additional plates need to be prepared, a blue signal will be displayed to the cooks; if not, a red signal will be displayed.

[okinawaChris]

To me, Kaitenzushi = speed. A quick, inexpensive meal option where you can begin eating as soon as you are seated. From an operational perspective, it's a great set-up. I love the Dim Sum palaces of Hong Kong and even Los Angeles for the same reason, you eat as soon as you sit and you get to pick what you want. But the drawbacks are obvious in managing food costs through waste while saving on labor costs through reduced staff needed due to a self-service. Also, the amount you can charge is less because the customer won't expect to pay too much for the limited service provided. The only true way to make it work is through volume. At least in this part of Japan, Kaitenzushi are always large places that need rapid turn times of their seating to make a profit. The novelty factor will wear off and then it will survive or not depending on the quality served and the loyalty built up with the guests. It's an obvious risk that all opening restaurants face.

For me after all the years in the business, I would choose something a bit easier to operate and open. If I was in the states right now, I would be contacting Muginoho USA and buying a Beard Papa franchise as soon as possible. Simple operation, cult status and a great product....what else could you want!

Hi!

I lived in Osaka from 1989 - 1995.  During this time I 1st began to eat sushi and of course it was the 1st time I tried kaitenzushi = conveyor belt sushi (C.B.S.).  When I returned to the States sushi had become so popular with new sushi restaurants popping up all over the place, but not so many C.B.S. restaurants.  My dream is to open a C.B.S. restaurant on the East Coast of America in Philadelphia.  It is tough to get a serious feel for C.B.S scene while I am here in the States, so I would like to start this thread so that I can better understand what is going on currently in Japan. 

I would like to discuss:

-  What are your likes and dislikes at kaitenzushi?

-  What are your favorite kaitenzushi to go to and why (pictures are a plus)?

-  What makes some kaitenzushi popular while some are not so great?

-  Do you see kaitenzushi as just a gimmick?

Ookini!

Paul

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[Lazrowp]

(Japanese only), the number of plates disposed of was 100 before the system was installed and increased to 800 after the installation.  Thus, Kura developed another system called a "manufacturing management system":  When customers go into the restaurant, the cashier enters the number of them-how many adults and how many children.  Based on that information, the difference between the number of plates that the customers will eat within 15 minutes from now on and the number of plates currently on the conveyor belt is determined.  If additional plates need to be prepared, a blue signal will be displayed to the cooks; if not, a red signal will be displayed.

←

Kura has an interesting system. They have really been the leaders in including technology in their operation. I will have to discuss the article with my Japanese Sushi Chef so that we can work out our system for food cost waste reduction.

Paul

[dornachu]

Hi all-

I had a wonderful time when i went to this Kaitenzushi in Shinjubu where everything is 105 yen per plate. 築地本店

However, my japanese is quite limited, I wonder if they have some rarer types of sushi that I can't get in the states? its difficult for me to ask them, and even if i manage to ask the question, i don't usually understand what the answer is..

Anyone been there, and what are some special sushi that you had?? Thanks!

Dorna

[torakris]

Do you have any more information about the shop? address? phone number?

I am finding quite a few shops with that name but not in Shinjuku...

What time of year will you be here? Probably the best thing to do will be to go for the fish that are in season.

If you ever need help at a restaurant, especially sushi, just let me know I would be more than happy to join you!!

[dornachu]

Do you have any more information about the shop? address? phone number?

I am finding quite a few shops with that name but not in Shinjuku...

What time of year will you be here? Probably the best thing to do will be to go for the fish that are in season.

If you ever need help at a restaurant, especially sushi, just let me know I would be more than happy to join you!!

←

Sorry, it's actually in Shibuya. I can't type the words out from this computer, but the numbers are 24-8

I'll be there late november, what kind of fish is in season? I don't know if it's a norm (not here in the states), i actually order from the chef alot, i copied what my neighbors do "Umi o kudasai" eheheh... but i wonder what other type that I can try to order and they won't give me a dirty look because it's very expensive and not suppose to find in a kaitenzushi... Thanks!

[torakris]

is this it?

Everything is 105 yen (with consumption tax included), these kinds of places will usually have a menu either on a wall or on the table of the items that are available to be ordered. My experience with these 105 yen places in that their selection is usually quite limited. You may be better off at a more expensive place if you want more selection.

This is apparently quite a famous place in Shibuya though most reports I have gone through on the net (mostly blogs) don't give it a very high rating....

There is also a sign on the door that says to please finish your meal within 30 minutes and each customer must order over 7 pieces.

Do you read Japanese at all? Can you read the menus?

I ahve to run now but I will be back later with some fish that are in season in late November.

[dornachu]

is this it?

Everything is 105 yen (with consumption tax included), these kinds of places will usually have a menu either on a wall or on the table of the items that are available to be ordered. My experience with these 105 yen places in that their selection is usually quite limited. You may be better off at a more expensive place if you want more selection.

This is apparently quite a famous place in Shibuya though most reports I have gone through on the net (mostly blogs) don't give it a very high rating....

There is also a sign on the door that says to please finish your meal within 30 minutes and each customer must order over 7 pieces.

Do you read Japanese at all? Can you read the menus?

I ahve to run now but I will be back later with some fish that are in season in late November.

←

Torakris-san, Yep, this is it!! I enjoyed it although selection is prob limited.And yes, one must finish at least 7 plates and finish by 30 min. I was by myself last time, so that was easy.

Do you have any other good sushi place that won't burn a hole in my wallet that you recommend? I prefer to be at either Odaiba (i'll be visiting here!! and get some hot spring soak!), shinjuku, shibuya, or neighborhood of Roppongi hills (where i stay). Thanks!!!

I can read a little bit, mostly recognizing the Kanji because I can read chinese. But I'm determined to learn the fish names that I like, and use them in Tokyo.

I know enough phrases to get by, like please , thank you, where is, how much is that, etc.

[torakris]

Some fish that are good in late November:

many types of shrimp, squid and octopus, these are often looked down upon but they can be a completely different fish (? ) when theya re in season. One time last year at a kaiten place my husband made almost and entire meal out of some incredible octopus!! These also tend to be cheap ones so even at a slightly more expensive place, these will still only set you back 100 to 200 yen.

hirame (flounder) is another common sushi topping but it will be in season then and is worth a couple tastes.

some of the more rare fish in season at that time are

kibinago (banded blue sprat) can be served as sushi but it is more common to see it as sashimi

koi (carp) isn't a common sushi topping but you should be able to find it as koi no arai 鯉の洗い. This is a type of sashimi where the fish is "washed" in ice water before serving.

mutsu (Japanese bluefish) is one to keep an eye out for, it is at its fattiest in the winter and is usually served in cooked forms but the sushi versions when you can find them are great.

bora (grey mullet) is similar to tai (red snapper) but much cheaper, this also is rarely seen as sushi but rather as bora no arai (like the koi). I just picked up a large block for sashimi last week and it was great. I don't know why people spend the money on tai when you can eat bora for less than a quarter of the price.

namako (sea cucumber), I have had this once as a gunkan maki but it is more more common to see it in a vinegared dish served as an appetizer.

Most of these more unusual ones won't be found at a 105 yen place though...

[torakris]

You might also want to keep your eye out for kujira (whale), this can be found as sushi as well as the more common sashimi. I am pretty sure you can't get that in the US.

[torakris]

don't forget about the kaiten sushi thread from about the middle there is some talk of ways to choose a good place as well as some names for theTokyo area.