canelloni disaster

[easternsun]

i found some canelloni and thought i would make it for a friends birthday dinner. i dont think any of my japanese friends have ever had it, so i thought it might be special.

where do i start?

none of the tubes were stuffable! i did not over cook the pasta or rather i followed the suggested time on the box. there wasnt even one tube left - so i ended up making a spinach and cheese layered shredded pasta in tomato sauce & bechemel sauce. it tasted like it should have but it looked terrible - not like stuffed pasta at all!

one of my mates always makes her lasagna without cooking the pasta first. would this work for canelloni too?

any tips?

thanks!

[Kevin72]

What happened to them exactly? Did they just fall apart trying to stuff them?

You'd need to look for dried canelloni tubes that specifically say on the package that they don't require boiling first if you want to do it like your friend does for lasagne.

Otherwise I'd consider making the pasta sheets or crepes by hand and then roll them around the filling.

[monavano]

Another alternative is to cook lasagna noodles, spread the filling on top and roll them up. Bake with sauce until cheese melts.

Stuffing canneloni is a pain in the arse!!

[AK@Spicehouse]

Pasta myth. No Boil noodles are an expensive hype to what is a known cooking fact. The best lasagna and Canneloni starts with dried pasta, hard as a rock. It will cook with in the sauce and mositure of the cheese in the oven at 350 degrees. Stand up perfect, not gamey or impossible to handle and never running water. Never cook lasagna noodles first or canneloni noodles.

What happened to them exactly?  Did they just fall apart trying to stuff them?

You'd need to look for dried canelloni tubes that specifically say on the package that they don't require boiling first if you want to do it like your friend does for lasagne.

Otherwise I'd consider making the pasta sheets or crepes by hand and then roll them around the filling.

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Edited April 26, 2005 by AK@Spicehouse (log)

[easternsun]

Pasta myth. No Boil noodles are an expensive hype to what is a known cooking fact. The best lasagna and Canneloni starts with dried pasta, hard as a rock. It will cook with in the sauce and mositure of the cheese in the oven at 350 degrees. Stand up perfect, not gamey or impossible to handle and never running water. Never cook lasagna noodles first or canneloni noodles.

What happened to them exactly?  Did they just fall apart trying to stuff them?

You'd need to look for dried canelloni tubes that specifically say on the package that they don't require boiling first if you want to do it like your friend does for lasagne.

Otherwise I'd consider making the pasta sheets or crepes by hand and then roll them around the filling.

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thank you!

this is what i was thinking too. they will be in the oven for awhile covered in sauce, so the pasta should cook. do i need to increase the baking time?

it looks like i am going to be eating a lot of pasta this week testing this recipe for the weekend!

thanks for all the replies!

[jm chen]

I second monavono's suggestion of lasagne rolls -- I've always had good luck with this, and it's always novel to my guests.

Good luck with your test runs and, of course, the main event!

[albiston]

Pasta myth. No Boil noodles are an expensive hype to what is a known cooking fact. The best lasagna and Canneloni starts with dried pasta, hard as a rock.

You'll excuse me if I'll disagree and keep thinking that the best lasagne and canneloni (rolled up as monavano explained) are made with fresh home-made pasta.

It will cook with in the sauce and mositure of the cheese in the oven at 350 degrees. Stand up perfect, not gamey or impossible to handle and never running water. Never cook lasagna noodles first or canneloni noodles.

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"Never" seems a bit far fetched, rather: you can absolutely cook the directly with the sauce (at least if you're doing an oven baked pasta dish), but it won't necessarily work better. There is a very simple reason for par-boiling lasagne and cannelloni first. If your pasta is cooked almost all the way, it will absorb only a minimal amount of sauce and eventual cheese moisture - and that only if you use a fresh cheese- so you can control how wet or dry you want your dish to be while you assemble it. A mistake here would be cooking too much pasta at once often increases the chance of having such a problem. Ideally one should use between one and one and a half liters of water for every hundred grams of pasta.

If you cook the pasta directly in the sauce, and have little experience in doing so, you might use too little or too much ending with dry or soupy cannelloni. In Italy too much sauce is seen as a mistake, much more than it is elsewhere and for this reason par-cooking gives IMO better results. I'm well aware that this is not necessarily the view elsewhere .

I think easternsun's problem lies in something not related to the cooking method. When large pasta like cannelloni break apart like described, usually it simply means that the pasta has been damaged during transport. It doesn't need to be broken, a few paper-thin cracks are enough. Had the problem myself once.

[monavano]

I agree and I par cook my pasta before assembly, always. I;ve tried the no boil lasagna noodles and they came out crunchy in some places and cooked in others. Also, I don't use a lot of sauce with my lasagna, that's just the way I like it.

If you decide to use regular pasta without boiling it first, I'd be sure to do a practice with it. I'd never trust it, but then again, I've been making a kick butt lasagna for years and know what works for me.

[easternsun]

i agree that fresh pasta is the way to go -- and the more i think about how supposedly time consuming it would be, the reality is that it takes more time (lets use lasagna for example) to boil the individual lasagne noodles than it would to whack up a batch of fresh stuff.

thank you albiston and monavano for the inspiration.

you know, living in japan is not often that i see anything other than spaghetti/penne or macaroni at a regular super market. i saw the canelloni and started thinking about spinach and cheese stuffed creations.

now the reminder of how good the fresh stuff is has me thinking about pumpkin ravioli which can only be done by hand! and turkey lasagne that people will barter their children and spouses for a "ake home" piece..thanks for reminding me that the easy way is not always the easy way

[ChefCarey]

i found some canelloni and thought i would make it for a friends birthday dinner.  i dont think any of my japanese friends have ever had it, so i thought it might be special.

where do i start? 

none of the tubes were stuffable!  i did not over cook the pasta or rather i followed the suggested time on the box.  there wasnt even one tube left - so i ended up making a spinach and cheese layered shredded pasta in tomato sauce & bechemel sauce.  it tasted like it should have but it looked terrible - not like stuffed pasta at all! 

one of my mates always makes her lasagna without cooking the pasta first.  would this work for canelloni too?

any tips?

thanks!

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I thought we were all pros here??? :)

Cannelloni

This stuffed pasta dish probably originated in Northern Italy - in Piedmont.

Technique: Dry Heat, Baking

Yield: 8-10 portions

Ingredient Quantity

Egg Pasta (page 000) 1 Recipe

Stuffing (page 000) 1 Recipe

Sugo Bolognese (page 000) 1 Recipe

Béchamel (page 000) 1 Recipe

Parmesan cheese, freshly grated ½ Cup

Butter, softened 2 Ounces

Method:

1) Preheat the oven to about 400.

2) Make the pasta and roll as thinly as possible. Cut into rectangles about 3” X 4”.

3) Make the stuffing.

4) Make the meat sauce.

5) Make the béchamel.

6) Blanch the pasta for about 30 seconds in boiling water. Cool and dry.

7) Place approximately one tablespoon of stuffing on each pasta rectangle and spread evenly.

8) Roll the strip into a cylinder on the shorter side.

9) Place in an oiled baking dish and cover with a layer of the meat sauce.

10) Cover with the béchamel.

11) Strew the cheese over the top and dot with butter. Bake for about 15 minutes.

Cannelloni Stuffing

Ingredient Quantity

Onion, yellow, medium, diced ½

Olive oil, extra virgin if possible 3 Tablespoons

Lean ground beef (or veal) ½ Pound

Ham, minced ¼ Cup

Egg yolk 1

Parmesan, freshly grated 1 Cup

Ricotta 1 ¼ Cup

Béchamel (page 000) ¼ Cup

Nutmeg Pinch

Salt To taste

Pepper, black, freshly ground To taste

Method:

1) Sauté onion in the olive oil until translucent.

2) Add ground meat and sauté until cooked.

3) Strain to remove fat.

4) In a mixing bowl combine meat mixture with ham, egg yolk, parmesan, ricotta, béchamel, nutmeg, salt and pepper.

Creole Nouvelle

[albiston]

I thought we were all pros here??? :)

Only those who have "chef" in their nickname

Cannelloni

This stuffed pasta dish probably originated in Northern Italy - in Piedmont.

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The origins of cannelloni are much disputed. Piemonte is one of the regions who claims to have invented these. According to Italian Author Angelo Martelli they were invented in Amalfi, others claim they come from Sicily, without forgetting Emilia Romagan as candidate. I have no firm opinion, as long as it tastes good .

The interesting result of the dispute above is that you can find quite a few different cannelloni recipes in the various Italian regional cuisines. The recipe you posted above, for example, has a definite touch of Emilia Romagna to it.

[JasonTrue]

I would suggest looking carefully at how aggressively your water was boiling. If it was a furious boil, it might be causing the pasta to bounce around and collide too much. Or they may have simply been overcooked... Were the instructions provided in Japanese? They might have advised a longer cooking time to suit Japanese tastes. I think you should take them out just as they start to deform, before they are actually soft, since they need to have enough structure to survive the trauma of the stuffing.

i agree that fresh pasta is the way to go -- and the more i think about how supposedly time consuming it would be, the reality is that it takes more time (lets use lasagna for example) to boil the individual lasagne noodles than it would to whack up a batch of fresh stuff.

thank you albiston and monavano for the inspiration.

you know, living in japan is not often that i see anything other than spaghetti/penne or macaroni at a regular super market.  i saw the canelloni and started thinking about spinach and cheese stuffed creations. 

now the reminder of how good the fresh stuff is has me thinking about pumpkin ravioli which can only be done by hand!  and turkey lasagne that people will barter their children and spouses for a "ake home" piece..thanks for reminding me that the easy way is not always the easy way

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