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Vancouver baby Adria?


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So, anyone have any guesses when the fad for lack of a better term, molecular cuisine will hit Vancouver? Are we too down to earth to buy into this trend? Is anyone really interested in twenty course tastings consisting of globules of beef marrow essence suspended in a flavourless pure protein gel? I see from the TO board that Czehoski's is going in that direction. Chicago and NY both have multiple examples, even here on the board the development of one has been documented..

Anyone know if any Vancouver chefs are looking in this direction?

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I've heard rumblings about it internationally, you know, flavoured paper capturing the essence and shite, but I honestly think (hope!) they'd get laughed out of town if they tried it here. I'd just loathe to serve the stuff.

Time to move to Pender and start my grow op.

Edited by editor@waiterblog (log)

Andrew Morrison

Food Columnist | The Westender

Editor & Publisher | Scout Magazine

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Sure, the art form needs to be taken to that level, and maybe beyond, but it has nothing to do with real dining. Sensual sharing with loved ones is at best a simple pleasure. Vancouver is such a great fresh, vibrant, fun food city, I just don't think we need to witness someone's gastronomical masturbation to enhance it.

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If I had a half dozen whip cream canisters and co2 bombs, I would have extreme fun trying to change liquids into foams.

Would I want to pay for this in a restaurant? Nah, I don't think so.

I like the idea of playing with blow torches too!

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If I had a half dozen whip cream canisters and co2 bombs, I would have extreme fun trying to change liquids into foams.

Would I want to pay for this in a restaurant? Nah, I don't think so.

I like the idea of playing with blow torches too!

This is exactly why the avante garde is valuable, the trickle down of good ideas into the mass market. For every one hundred failures, you get one really good execution. Foams are the first legacy of this movement, I'm certain there will be more.

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If you've experienced some of the amazing flavours created at E Bulli or Comerc 24 you might change your mind. We create foams at home as a accompaniment to an appy or entree. The real skill lies in creating complex flavours and the correct texture. They are fun and a lot of work.

Stephen

"who needs a wine list when you can get pissed on dessert" Gordon Ramsey Kitchen Nightmares 2005

MY BLOG

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Chefs the likes of Ferran Adria are culinary geniuses, from what I have seen of his work I belive they are setting the bar for new cuisine. Adria enhances the natural flavours that so many Chefs cover up or blow out with intense flavoured multi-culteral dishes that they believe is 'what's hot'.

Tall poppy attitudes that strike down the innnovation and creativity of Chefs such as Adria and Achatz are retarding the advance of top notch cuisine in Vancouver. Foams are fun and you see them everywhere, this is just an introduction to what is to come.

If an establishment opened in Vancouver that experimented with molecular gastronomy, done well mind you. I would gladly pay top dollar to experience it.

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I just don't think I've fully explored "normal" food enough yet. Once I've done/eaten it all, then I might venture into the world of Adria-esque food. I'm pretty sure it would be completely lost on me. It might be cool, and even deliscious :shock: but would I appreciate what went into it?

Even Adria touched on this contact with "normal" food in the documentary, and also when he did the Q&A on eGullet. Interesting answers if you get a chance to read it.

As to the likelihood Vancouver will see such cuisine ... if somebody can make a buck at it, I'm certain of it.

A.

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well, chefs like D. Hawksworth have started playing around with "sous-vide" and slow cooking, canisters and CO2... I also think West will be getting a pacojet soon... Oh, i would love to have one of these babies!

But really, my opinion is that this kind of cooking involves extremely strong technical skills and knowledge, and that is still lacking around our beautiful west coast. Most people in Van are still at the Mussels&fries stage... The last thing we need is some Dubrulle graduate kid with too much money starting fooling around with adult toys.

Let's keep on the right tracks, and get the basics right.

Eddy M., Chef & Owner

Se.ed Artisan Foods, Vancouver BC

Follow Se.ed's growth at: http://spaces.msn.com/members/fromseedtofood/

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But really, my opinion is that this kind of cooking involves extremely strong technical skills and knowledge, and that is still lacking around our beautiful west coast. Most people in Van are still at the Mussels&fries stage... The last thing we need is some Dubrulle graduate kid with too much money starting fooling around with adult toys.

Let's keep on the right tracks, and get the basics right.

Sad but true.

Nice one edm.

Do you think we could get a two for one on the pacos?

Maybe then I could start saving for the infamous thermomix.

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I'm with Arne in that I know crap all about the stuff. Therefore (and unlike Arne), I fear it. Before I go gallavanting around the net like a google-sapien does anyone have any clickety links that might direct me (and others) to where I might find some basics? Thanks.

I might have to eat humble pie and serve it one day. :biggrin:

But again...I wonder. How far away from astronaut food is this? Excuse my ignorance as I'm not being facetious, but is this just getting rid of things like texture to get at the heart of flavour? I mention this because I love to chew, gnaw and slurp. Is it for garnishing? Starch replacements?

I just sling the stuff so don't make fun of me. :cool:

Edited by editor@waiterblog (log)

Andrew Morrison

Food Columnist | The Westender

Editor & Publisher | Scout Magazine

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Honestly, after watching the show, I would be hard pressed NOT to want to try this style of cuisine. If we really consider ourselves to be 'foodies', for me it doesn't mean eating within a certain comfort level, or certain "style" of cooking. It is about tasting anything and everything regardless of preparation styles or standards. Heaven forbid that we all eventually end up only having food served or prepared in 'comfortable' styles that we are familiar with. It may not be a style of food I could eat daily, but man, just one evening to enjoy this kind of experience would be ideal - just as I could not eat other styles or preparations of foods every night either. This man is doing things that while seemingly foreign to our comfort zones, has taken the culinary experience to a different level - bravo to him and sign me up for opening night when it comes to Vancouver. :raz::raz:

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I tend to agree with RooStew's observations.

Originally I was all against the type of cuisine...seemed too much like the "Jetson's" comics of my childhood...too much science and pretence than good food.

Did I really want the server to tell me how to eat, spray this, inhale that? Did I want to get small morsels served to me on devices that looked like high school shop glass designers on acid had designed them? I was very dubious.

Then I saw the episode of Into the Fire or some similar program featuring Aschatz [sp?] at Trio and then more recently, Bourdain's visit to Spain. I was very impressed and intrigued.

I would love the opportunity to try something like this. Goodness knows it will never happen in Edmonton any time soon.

That having been said I would also enjoy...likely just as much...a classically prepared coq-au-vin or some similar rustic dish.

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The last thing we need is some Dubrulle graduate kid with too much money starting fooling around with adult toys.

I can personally atest to the fact that once you are done with Dubrulle, you don't have any money left for toys :-)

I thought that Aschatz, who has now left Trio for his own venture, was a bit on the Cooking School Grad with too much money side...I didn't think he was particularly interesting or inspired with the little bits of paper flavoured with dust. I found it a bit irritating, really.

At least Adria is presenting actual food, not spray painted paper. I was glued to the TV for the Bourdain special, not just because of the way the food looked, which was spectacular...that cherry with the ham fat totally got me...but the potential for what he is developing, and the range of technique that may some day make it into the mainstream. Food is science, and he is certainly making it work for him. I also loved that the total price of a meal at El Bulli is about 100 pounds sterling, which, when you think about the development time of the techniques, is not very much.

I was, however, kind of disappointed and demystified when my husband, upon seeing the pea ravioli globules, said 'hey, that's just glycerin and gelatin, we can do that in our own kitchen if we can figure out the proportions - that's how they make artificial skin'. I'll let you know if he hits on the right formula :-)

Don't try to win over the haters. You're not the jackass whisperer."

Scott Stratten

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Returning to the original question ....

  • Do you foresee this type of cuisine coming to Vancouver?
  • Are we "ready" for it?
  • Is there anyone currently on the radar who would undertake such a venture, or would it have to be someone new?
  • What kind of molecular dishes would a Vancouver "el Bulli" offer, considerng our local ingredients?

A.

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Returning to the original question ....
  • Do you foresee this type of cuisine coming to Vancouver? 
  • Are we "ready" for it? 
  • Is there anyone currently on the radar who would undertake such a venture, or would it have to be someone new? 
  • What kind of molecular dishes would a Vancouver "el Bulli" offer, considerng our local ingredients?

A.

Yup, it will get here eventually...a fool and his money are soon parted, and there is a PT Barnum in every crowd.

Ready...hmmmm...well, are we ready to part with our money in an effort to leap on the cutting edge bandwagon? Probably. From a cuisine standpoint? No, most places can't even get the basics correct, so this would just present another opportunity to screw up something that should have been simple to begin with. And most people don't know good food from bad. There are maybe 500 people in Vancouver that would 'get it'. The rest would be lemmings. But you know what they say...if you build it, they will come. Charge 200 bucks for it and they will be lining up at the door.

I can see Feenie doing the mango caviar kind of thing...and the ravioli. And probably other chefs as well. I think someone new will come on the scene tho. And they will go at it full tilt. Money, all you need is money.

I think a Vancovuer 'El Bulli' would have to have seaweed foam...and the fish in cotton candy :-)

Don't try to win over the haters. You're not the jackass whisperer."

Scott Stratten

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Returning to the original question ....
  • Do you foresee this type of cuisine coming to Vancouver? 
  • Are we "ready" for it? 
  • Is there anyone currently on the radar who would undertake such a venture, or would it have to be someone new? 
  • What kind of molecular dishes would a Vancouver "el Bulli" offer, considerng our local ingredients?

A.

Arne, I think your first two bullets can be combined in one answer: No. We are not ready for it because of economics and general tastes. Read the first few responses: even Andrew, someone who spends every working minute in the presence of basically the same form of cuisine (which I'm not saying it's bad, it's just restaurant reality), says he isn't ready to see bright green globules on the plate, let alone a gravy boat full of carrot foam.

We are somewhere inbetween the general public loving all things Cactus Club and a small percentage of the population (eGulleters) complaining about the proliferation of food for the masses. We see it all the time: a lot of people cannot fathom spending $100 on dinner when they can get a burger and a beer for $15. (Again, no offense intended against burgers or, especially, beer.)

Like Eddy says, let's get the basics down first. When we can get 51% of average Joes and Janes to recognize and appreciate a great moules frites or bouillabaisse or har gow, then we're ready to take another step towards Adria's food.

That said, the appearance of foams on local plates was noticed, so things can be integrated slowly and gradually. But in reality, how many Vancouverites are ready to sit for 4+ hours to eat 32 micro-courses of weird looking things? Plus, although the price of a meal at El Bulli is only ₤100 pp, that must be supplemented somehow or perhaps even subsidized by Adria himself. I forget the amount it costs to run the lab each year, but it is huge. And the El Bulli cooks all stage for free. (I don't know if this is true of all big name restos, but I'm sure someone else does.)

As a concept, it might work better in Whistler where the disposable income is much higher, and in El Bulli tradition, the place can close down during each shoulder season. :raz: Sorry for the ramble, I'm done!

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I'm thinking of how wine pairings will work  :laugh:

no kidding...same thought crossed my mind and so I inquired over at the Spain/Portugal board.

I have not travelled nor as a consequence dined very much in Europe but was advised that the "wine pairing" aspect of tasting menus is not as in vogue there as it is here. Again that is second hand information. I am sure others can speak from first-hand knowledge as to whether this is correct or not.

The wine component did not seem as "staggering" ...price-wise...as it can be on "this side of the pond"...many recommended Cava...not surprisingly given it is Spain and a still bottle of white or red or both...and a driver.

If I win the lotto I will post because Barcelona and El Bulli have been added to my "foodie fantasy list"....mind you, just tasting the jamon in that shop before he went to the "laboratory" looked fabulous.

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Returning to the original question ....
  • Do you foresee this type of cuisine coming to Vancouver? 
  • Are we "ready" for it? 
  • Is there anyone currently on the radar who would undertake such a venture, or would it have to be someone new? 
  • What kind of molecular dishes would a Vancouver "el Bulli" offer, considerng our local ingredients?

A.

I could see this type of cuisine making guest appearances at Lumiere or West - but as a whole evening thing - I am not too sure. I went to a restaurant in Hong Kong where there were a series of tastings - with the opening savlos being the new 'molecular' style of cuisine and then the menu moved back into more grounded territory.

I don't think that we need to deem ourselves ready or not. It takes tremendous skill to pull this type of cuisine off. Both technical skill (that is rooted in classic training) and intellectual skill. I saw the program on Achatz on Food TV and also found him irritating. The program showed no intellectual underpinnings - he just seemed interested in what weird technical thing he could do the the food. At some point - the food being served was basically is processed food and people were paying $200 a head to lick garlic powder and chew flavored paper. That is why the intellectual underpinning is important - it is all about re-examing food and explore flavours in a new way. But for many, the ghee-whiz esthetic aspect takes over and it becomes illiterate cooking (remember how quickly nouvelle cuisine deteriorated?).

I think that it is a good thing that neither Feenie or Hawksworth has jumped on the bandwagon and tried to pull something like this off. I think that it actually speaks to their integrity and understanding of theirs skills that they don't go down that path. I agree with so many of the posters here that there is so much undiscovered bounty still in BC that there is still much to explore. Let's get the real food down before we jump into astronaut food.

Finally - here is my recipe for molecular pesto

1 Tb Dried Basil

1 Tsp Garlic Powder

1 Tb Grated Cheese (dried Denman Island Chevre is ideal)

1 Tsp ground pine nuts.

Mix with fingers and sprinkle on clove flavoured cigarette paper. Let dissolve on tongue. Charge $25.00

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I'm thinking of how wine pairings will work  :laugh:

no kidding...same thought crossed my mind and so I inquired over at the Spain/Portugal board.

I have not travelled nor as a consequence dined very much in Europe but was advised that the "wine pairing" aspect of tasting menus is not as in vogue there as it is here. Again that is second hand information. I am sure others can speak from first-hand knowledge as to whether this is correct or not.

The wine component did not seem as "staggering" ...price-wise...as it can be on "this side of the pond"...many recommended Cava...not surprisingly given it is Spain and a still bottle of white or red or both...and a driver.

If I win the lotto I will post because Barcelona and El Bulli have been added to my "foodie fantasy list"....mind you, just tasting the jamon in that shop before he went to the "laboratory" looked fabulous.

"Wine and Foamy food".......Looking at regionality; Cava, Priorato (foie gras foam) and white Euro blends work well with this type of food. One of the most amazing pairings we had was a foam made from blood oranges added to a glass of olorosso sherry paired with a tuna sashimi and grapefruit foam...yummy!!!!! Just envison the foam as a piece of protein without the textural element and you can come up with some wonderful wine pairings.. Maybe we can discuss this at our table at Chambar tonight.

Cheers,

Stephen Bonner

Edited by SBonner (log)

"who needs a wine list when you can get pissed on dessert" Gordon Ramsey Kitchen Nightmares 2005

MY BLOG

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IIRC, Adria put the laboratory's price tag at about 300,000 Euros per annum. I'd hate to try tweaking my food cost to accomodate that, pretty much anywhere in Canada.

Realistically, like any avant-garde, this one will fade. Adria and a couple of the others are stone geniuses, wild men who will take us into places we'd never dreamed of before. Most of what they've done will be forgotten almost immediately, because that's the way of the creative world (the shortest line between two points runs from Avant-Garde to Old Guard). The remaining...what, two percent?...of what the MG crew come up with will continue to inform and inspire us for a generation.

As in any field, most other practitioners of the style will not have the chops, the creativity, to make a lasting impact on the culinary world. Think fast, how many cubist painters can you name after Picasso, Braque, and Miro? There were thousands, and a few of them did interesting things, but none measured up those three.

“Who loves a garden, loves a greenhouse too.” - William Cowper, The Task, Book Three

 

"Not knowing the scope of your own ignorance is part of the human condition...The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is you don’t know you’re a member of the Dunning-Kruger club.” - psychologist David Dunning

 

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There are times at work when I wish I could just pop a food pill in my mouth that would satisfy my tastebuds and make me feel full, no time taken. I'm wondering how much of this molecular food do you have to eat to feel full? 20 courses plus. Also, how many calories are involved? (i.e. in a foam) Could this molecular food turn into the next diet trend? I would pay to try a Baby Adria once, but I prefer textures when dining. Pills at work would be great though. Food pills that is.

"One chocolate truffle is more satisfying than a dozen artificially flavored dessert cakes." Darra Goldstein, Gastronomica Journal, Spring 2005 Edition

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