Peppercorns

[Suvir Saran]

What do you know about peppercorns?

Is there a particular was you use them?

How do you decide which to use (black, white, red or green)?

Any peppercorn stories to share...?

[Rachel Perlow]

This thread was moved to the Cooking forum from the India forum by Suvir's request.

[Suvir Saran]

Thanks Rachel.

What do we know about peppercorns?

How do we use them?

Do we love them or not?

Where do they come from?

[mamster]

My old peppermill couldn't handle the large Tellicherry peppercorns, but my new one (the Unicorn Magnum) can.  I think I can tell the difference--the Tellicherry are hotter, to start with--but haven't done a blind tasting.  The peppercorns are from India, of course.  

I should put in my usual plug for fresh green peppercorns, which are unavailable in the U.S. but something I love to eat in Thailand (they're thrown into all sorts of curries, particularly northern and northeastern ones).  Suvir, are unripe peppercorns used this way in India?  I find they taste like a cross between a peppercorn and a green vegetable, just a wonderful thing to find in your curry.

[Wilfrid]

If green peppercorns are the fresh version of black peppercorns, where do those cute pink ones come in?

[Liza]

The cute little pink store? (Sorry, couldn't resist).

I like the pink ones on fish.

[tommy]

The cute little pink store? (Sorry, couldn't resist).

I like the pink ones on fish.

cute little pink ones.  wilfrid.  hehe.

[jaybee]

I buy my peppercorns from Penzey's.  I make a five pepper mix

Telicherry black, white, green, pink and sechuan with a little gros sel mixed in.  I keep this mix in an old (1930s vintage) coffee grinder with a bowl under it.  This grinder is like a crusher for coarse pepper which I use to coat food before cooking.  I also blend this into chopped meat for hamburgers before grilling. I use a separate grinder for muntouk (sp?) white pepper corns and for the telicherry black.  I find the white best in soups, the black in salads.  I also have tins of wet green peppercorns that I've used in various recipes. But I generally follow recipe directions that specify.  The Penzey's catalog has good information about the different grades and kinds of peppers, most of which were "greek" to me before reading this.

[Wilfrid]

Go ahead.  Laugh.

[Suvir Saran]

Wilfrid they are part of a transition as the peppercorn ages.

In fact the creeper often has some green and some pink and some very light in color.. almost white, all at the same time.

In short black, white, green and pink peppercorns are all from the same vine, Piper nigrum.  They are only picked at different stages of their maturing.

There is a second kind of pepper we get in India and now one sees available here called Piper longum.  This is a grayish pepper that resembles a caterpillar.  In fact the word pepper is derived from the Sanskrit word for this plant, pipali.

But the white ones you find in the spice stores are black ones that have been soaked in water and the outer skin is removed.  The darker inner corn is dried till it bleaches to white.

Peppercorns are considered the King of Spices.  In fact in old days this spice was traded as currency.  It was the demand in Europe for the Indian peppercorn that made Vasco da Gama discover a sea route to India.

In India we believe that the larger the berry the more intense the flavor.  Peppercorns are used for their deeply woody quality as also the pungency and aroma.  

Since pepper is quite neutral in flavor, it can be used successfully with both savory and sweets.

In India we use pepper teas to cure flatulence. Pepper is also used to treat colds and coughs.  

In India white pepper was usually used in sauces that were cream based and you would not want the black powder to show.  White peppercorns are not as subtle as black.  So, they are used in small amounts.

In Goa and in some southern homes, one would find sauces where fresh green berries are added into stews and sauces.  Most often people do not even stop and give credit to the spice, as they take it for granted.  A few berries added into a cream sauce can give a very wonderful peppery aroma and some heat as well.

[Suvir Saran]

Jaybee,

Are the green ones in brine?  I have only seem some in supermarkets.  I never find them fresh, so I never have them. Just curious to know.

Thanks.

[Priscilla]

I use Penzey's Tellicherry peppercorns.  The flavor is so rich and full, and hot, too, but it's the richness what makes it.

White are occasionally seconded, e.g. for Icelandic fish cakes or when their little difference seems indicated, but I do not fret about black pepper bits in a light-colored medium, in fact I like to see 'em in there.  Green and pink I like with duck, one or the other or both.

Recently I tried a Pakistani rice and meat dish, sorry I don't know the name, it was not unlike plov, delicious, that had whole black peppercorns (and other whole spices, including cloves) throughout, softened a bit in cooking, providing a surprisingly HOT, sort of fruity flavor blast when encountered, and a long, wavy afterburn.

Priscilla

[Suvir Saran]

Priscilla,

Are you sure you are not Indian or Pakistani?

You seem to describe the rice beautifully.  That is exactly what we sub-continentals are looking for when cooking the Khare Masale Ke Chaawal (rice fried with whole spices and then steamed).  A long wavy afterburn.

[Suvir Saran]

Sichuan Pepper

Also called Fagara, is from the Prickly Ash tree, which is native to China, India, and many South and South East Asian countries.  The Chinese variety is what is most popular.  In India it grows wild and not used very often.

Sichuan peppers have been a staple of Chinese cooking for a long time

To my taste buds Sichuan pepper has the initial woody aroma of black peppercorns, but while black peppercorns have a pungent and hot bite, Sichuan peppers have a numbing quality like cloves.

Sichuan pepper also brown and burns far more quickly than the black or white peppercorns.

[mamster]

Suvir, I was under the impression that pink peppercorns were not Piper nigrum but are the berry from a different tree;  I poked around on the net and some say they are Schinus molle and others (including Dave DeWitt) say Baies spp.  I don't think I've ever tasted a pink peppercorn outside of a spice blend, so I'm not really sure what they taste like and whether they taste anything like black or white peppercorns.

[jaybee]

Are the green ones in brine?  I have only seem some in supermarkets.  I never find them fresh, so I never have them. Just curious to know.

Now you mention it, the green are in brine.  These are berrries, not actually  "peppercorns".  I know I have five peppes in the blend, so I'll have to look this weekend to see what they are.

[Suvir Saran]

Matthew,

The pink berries sold as pink peppercorns are Schinus molle.  But they are different from pink peppercorns.  They are just slightly smaller than pink peppercorns and not as pungent but more aromatic than pink peppercorns.  They are most often sold instead of pink peppercorns.

In fact the Schinus molle can be bought also as a powder.

The white, green, pink and black peppercorns are all from the same Piper nigrum plant during different stages.

The black peppercorns are milder than the white.  The pink is stronger than the black.  When I say stronger I mean the pungency.  Green and pink are not as pungent but have a very fresh and zingy aroma and bite.

In Goa I saw some of each of these.  It was nice being in a spice plantation and seeing all of these growing and drying and in their many stages before packaging.

[Adam_Balic]

Suvir - the pink peppercorns avalible in the UK/USA/France are almost entirely of the Schinus terebinthifolious/molle variety. These basically all have one source in the Island of Reunion. I would love to try some of the "true" pink peppercorns, as I love the fresh green variety (which is pretty common here in Scotland of all places). Are they commonaly avalible.

Schinus terebinthifolious berries were really popular in Australia during the '80s, I remember that I had a pear tart that was flavoured with rosemary and pink peppercorns which was rather nice.

[Suvir Saran]

Adam I have only seen the pink ones in India.  And that too very rarely.  The change of color takes place so quickly that it is not very lucrative for farmers to keep the pink ones as such.

The pink ones are mostly added for color.  It is black and white that get farmers business and sustenance.

In India one can find green and pink often as fresh peppers that have not been dried.  Once put in brine, I for one do not enjoy them.

Molle Schinus is sweeter and less pungent (pepper pungency has heat and slight bitterness) than peppercorns.  And it also has a nice aroma.  It is that quality that makes is lend perfectly to dishes that are not overly hot.

[mamster]

Thanks for the clarification, Suvir and Adam.  Sounds like it's one of those oregano vs Mexican oregano things.  If I make it to India I will look for the "real" pink peppercorns.

[jaybee]

I now do recall buying a tin of green peppercorns that were dry and hard and could be crushed similar to black and white peppercorns.  I don't recall the technical name or even where I bought them, but it is likely at Dean & Deluca (who have an excellent spice selection) or Penzeys.

Description: Green peppercorns are unripened black peppercorns. They have a less pungent, more delicate flaovr than black peppercorns. Use this peppercorn on dishes where a light peppery taste is desired. These peppercorns are also delicious in a combination with other peppercorns, such as in our Peppercorn Medley.

Mystery solved! The above description came from myspicer.com

[jaybee]

I now do recall buying a tin of green peppercorns that were dry and hard and could be crushed similar to black and white peppercorns.  I don't recall the technical name or even where I bought them, but it is likely at Dean & Deluca (who have an excellent spice selection) or Penzeys.

[Suvir Saran]

Matthew,

If you have some dried red and black peppercorns, would you mind crushing some of each, very gently to see what is inside?  

Tell us what you find in each.

I do not have any pink peppercorns, or else I would have done this myself.

Would you mind doing this?  Please.

[Priscilla]

That is exactly what we sub-continentals are looking for when cooking the Khare Masale Ke Chaawal (rice fried with whole spices and then steamed).  A long wavy afterburn.

Suvir, I have no ethnic claim to, nor anything like expertise in, subcontinental cuisine, but oh I do love it so.

The dish you identified for me (thank you) was yet another revelation!  Those whole peppercorns!  As you know in Western cuisine, if whole pepper is an ingredient the corpus of the spice is strained out before eating.  A dish that leaves them in is a boon to black-pepper eaters.

Relatedly, have you noticed that Dutch people have a special affinity for black pepper?  (Other spices too, per the Indonesian connection, of course.)  I mean, I have to refill my table peppermill after my Dutch friends eat with us!  I attribute it to the Dutch East India Company's historic spice trade as a working theory, and am happy to provide lovely Tellicherry for them to shower on everything.

Priscilla

[Suvir Saran]

Yes I guess it goes back to the Dutch East India Company days.

Even in India, certain families and dishes call for whole spices to be removed.  But most people choose not to and allow for individuals to make that decision based on choice.

I like the latter. While I cannot enjoy whole spices in rice and other dishes, I know plenty of Indian and non-Indian friends that revel in their taste.

In our home I remember certain dishes where Panditji would put whole spices into a bag made from muslin. This was removed before the dish was served at the table.

I tend to make those dishes now with the spices left in it.  People seem to enjoy them.  I warn our friends about looking for whole spices and removing them as they find them, if they do not want to bite into them.

What else do you do with peppercorns Priscilla?