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The Terrine Topic

457 posts in this topic

Seth - It's beautiful!  Isn't it strange that we all start making the same things at the same time.  :smile:

Thank you Lucy... but I'm afraid I've got nothing on those pics you posted of Les Halles, or on Adam's work, for that matter.

The mention of rabbit makes me wish I'd tried that instead of duck.

I don't think I've ever tasted a fish terrine, and I find the subject intriguing. I gather from what I've read here and there that the ratio of fat to meat is the most important single thing about constructing pork- or other meat-based terrines. Getting the right fat content helps it hold together and gain the right kind of mouthfeel. Is that so with fish, and how is the balance achieved? With dairy ingredients, I guess.


"I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast;

but we like hot butter on our breakfast toast!"

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Are there specific ingredients or preparation that make a terrine uniquely French?


Shelley: Would you like some pie?

Gordon: MASSIVE, MASSIVE QUANTITIES AND A GLASS OF WATER, SWEETHEART. MY SOCKS ARE ON FIRE.

Twin Peaks

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I was just trying to find details on this book. It is one of the best I have seen on the subject. The funny think is that I also have my eye on the stuffed boars head. I even have access to the boar. Now all I have to do is get a different set of less squeamish friends then I can do it....

Funny -- actually, I've got the friends willing to help, but could never get a Boar's head here in California!!!

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There are many examples of specific regional French terrines. Not sure if there is a pan-French example that comes to mind, but I would think that most people would consider all terrines to be 'French', although this is incorrect.

The English pork pie is basically a terrine after all.

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Are there specific ingredients or preparation that make a terrine uniquely French?

I don't think so -- I just believe the French perfected the art... :wub:

I wasn't sure. Thanks! :smile:


Shelley: Would you like some pie?

Gordon: MASSIVE, MASSIVE QUANTITIES AND A GLASS OF WATER, SWEETHEART. MY SOCKS ARE ON FIRE.

Twin Peaks

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1st - Appologies the French nation for non-French terrine on the French board.....

I am attending the Leeds Food Symposium tomorrow, this year the topic is cerals. Anyway, as it is a meeting of food history I made a 17th century 'steak pie' (delegates provide the food :wub:). Essentially a terrine. Fresh from the oven it looks like this:

gallery_1643_978_709946.jpg

It should look like this:

gallery_1643_978_67848.jpg

As you can see I have made some mistakes and this is going to be given for lunch to some of the best historical recreation cooks on the planet..... :unsure:

I will take photos of the interior if I am not too shamed.

So nobody else should fear making terrines. :biggrin:


Edited by Adam Balic (log)

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I'd love to become proficient at making terrines. Any other cookbooks you all would recommend to help a beginner terrine maker?? I'm not afraid of complicated recipes...


Born Free, Now Expensive

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English language books are few and far between. On of the best 'Pâtés & Terrines by Friedrich W. Ehlert, Edouard Lonque, et al...' has been out of print for ~ 20 years.

I have seen some interesting French and Italian books, but don't own any.

Making basic terrine is easy, but some examples are require a great deal of skill and art.

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English language books are few and far between. On of the best 'Pâtés & Terrines by Friedrich W. Ehlert, Edouard Lonque, et al...' has been out of print for ~ 20 years.

I have seen some interesting French and Italian books, but don't own any.

Making basic terrine is easy, but some examples are require a great deal of skill and art.

Well, if you want to get serious, you could go to Book Finder.com which has several copies of this book we all suggest:

1 Alibris

[united States] ISBN: 0688038964

New York Hearst Books 1984 Hard Cover Very Good/Very Good 4to-over 9 3/4 "-12" tall 0688038964 Very good condition hardcover book with a small 1/8th inch burr on lower edge of the front board. There is a touch of rubbing at base of spine. Clean bright dust jacket has a closed 1/2 inch tear at the lower front edge. Keywords: Cookbooks & Dieting COOKERY GERMAN COOKING REGIONAL ETHNIC Cook Books Cookbooks $74.95

2 Friendly Used Books

via Abebooks ISBN: 0688038964

Publisher: New York: Hearst Books, 1984; Hard Cover. 4to - over 9 3/4 " - 12" tall. Very good condition hardcover book with a small 1/8th inch burr on lower edge of the front board. There is a touch of rubbing at base of spine. Clean bright dust jacket has a closed 1/2 inch tear at the lower front edge. $75.00

3 Alibris

[united States] New York Hearst Books 1984 First Edition Cloth Very Good/Very Good 4to 0688038964x 192 pp. Tail of spine and bottom corners bumped, small tear at tail of spine, edgewear, book slightly shaken. Dust jacket lightly worn at corners, edges, head and tail of spine, small hole at top right corner of front, some light soiling. How to master the art of charcuterie. Keywords: Cookbooks Charcuterie $124.95

4 Cellar Stories Bookstore

via Abebooks Publisher: New York: Hearst Books, 1984; Cloth. Very Good/Very Good. First Edition. 4to. 192 pp. Tail of spine and bottom corners bumped, small tear at tail of spine, edgewear, book slightly shaken. Dust jacket lightly worn at corners, edges, head and tail of spine, small hole at top right corner of front, some light soiling. How to master the art of charcuterie. $125.00

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The Terrine is basically a family of dishes that includes, pâté en croûte. How can what we normally find defined as a "terrine" be differentiated from a "pâté en croûte"? Mainly what is offered as a "terrine" contains distinct elements often prepared seperately and then layered instead of a more or less homogenous mix which we would define as a pâté. The name Terrine comes from the vessel it is cooked in. The pâté en croûte is indeed a type of terrine.

One French book on my shelf entitled simply "Terrines", contains recipes for terrines, pâté, pâté en croûte, rillettes, a recipe for a mousse a la gelée, a flan, and several layered fruit desserts which are unmoulded and sliced crossways to be served. As you can see the definition is quite loose, and large. Terrines are an important part of French cuisine, but as Adam ilustrates, the same tradition of the pâté exists in England (and Scotland of course), and in my mind they can and should be grouped together. Some exploration of the etymology of the word might help as well.

The image of the galantine :

gallery_15176_956_29357.jpg

Another French cookbook circa 1900, in the chapter entitles " pâté and terrines" includes recipes for "bouchées", which are a small version of the vol au vent, pâté chaud, pâté en terrine (which is served cold), "terrine ou pâté de foies de canards", various other terrines which are layered larger cuts of meats, timbales, tourtes, and ending with the vol au vent. There seems to be a blurring of the meaning of the words pâté, which is the minced and seasoned meat, and pâte, which is the croute, and two terms that seem to be intricately intertwined as I examine the cookbooks I have dating back into the 1800s.

As for sources in the English language for recipes that might already be on your shelf for the preparation of pâté and terrines, a nice introduction is Richard Olney's chapter entititled "Cold Terrines, Pâtés, Mousses". In an essay preceding his recipes, he gives a historical rundown of notable turning points as the meaning and presentation of the French terrine has developed and what it means today. Julia Child has a chapter in her Mastering the Art in Volume I which briefly covers pâté en croute. Louisette Bertholle, in her "French Cooking for All", has a chapter entitled Game Pâtés, which has some interesting recipes. Paula Wolfert's Southwest France tome contains several terrine recipes. Wolfgang Puck also has two terrine recipes in his "Modern French Cooking", one of which is quite interesting, a "Duck terrine with Hazelnuts and green peppercorns."

(note I have used accents in this post but will not in the future to enable the search feature to work properly for any of these terms.)

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1st - Appologies the French nation for non-French terrine on the French board.....

I am attending the Leeds Food Symposium tomorrow, this year the topic is cerals. Anyway, as it is a meeting of food history I made a 17th century 'steak pie' (delegates provide the food :wub:). Essentially a terrine. Fresh from the oven it looks like this:

gallery_1643_978_709946.jpg

So nobody else should fear making terrines. :biggrin:

It looks Amazing, Adam! :biggrin:

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Adam, those are absolutely stunning!  I've been a maniacal terrine maker for years but never got around to making any fish ones. Back when I worked in a bookstore, I acquired the book Pâtés & Terrines by Friedrich W. Ehlert, Edouard Lonque, et al...

I bought it new at $25 and am shocked to see it used for $75! I guess it is as precious a book as I take it for - amazingly erudite and well-researched with stunning photographs. It is true eye-candy and one of my favorite books to just languish through with a cup of tea. It covers forcemeats, pâtés and terrines, aspic jellies and sauces, galantines, and non-traditional versions including bouchees, vol-au-vents, porozhki, kulebyaka, and English pies.

Adam, the one you might appreciate that I've always wanted to try is a complicated recipe of a stuffed boar's head where, basically, the head of a boar is shaved, stitched up, and most of the internal bone structure removed. The snout is stuffed with a forcemeat of boar, the entire head is covered with a dark brown chaudfroid or brown aspic, and the snout itself is sliced.

Now I'm inspired to make something this weekend!

Good Lord! Who do you serve that dish to? A picky grandchild, perhaps an uninvited drop-in.

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Ah, this (or something similar) is in the TIME-LIFE 'terrine' book, so I will try this soon.

I have that series! I'd forgotten all about it. thank you for reminding me. I also have foods of the world packed away somewhere and there's bound to be a good recipe or 2 in there as well. Thanks again.

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With good intentions we arrived at the market too late to get the fish. I was itching to get started so I decided to prepare a rabbit terrine. Instead of a whole rabbit I got a couple of saddles and legs from the butcher. He had everything I needed, the bard, the fat pork, the cured ham. I had all of these great ideas based on a rouleaux I was doing for a while there, and was going to create a brand new terrine. I deboned the rabbit, and referred to Olney's recipe for the panade. I noticed that in his rabbit terrine he marinates the rabbit and I wasn't going to do that. So at the last minute I changed my mind and decided to marinate the rabbit overnightl, since his recipe looked much better than what I had in mind I would do. So the rabbit's marinating, the fat pork is minced, and the stock is simmering. Tomorrow I will assemble it, and stick with my original idea about something I want to do, but for the most part I am going to follow Olney's recipe (more or less). :smile:

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The English pork pie is basically a terrine after all.

Technically, it is more a pâté. The original pâtés of France were encased in dough and kept for a long time. Now the distinctions are somewhat blurred, but it is commonly understood that a terrine is a preparation of meats/fish/forcemeats/vegetables etc. baked in an earthenware dish (the terrine), and a pâté en croûte is baked in a case of dough in some mold or terrine. But some preparations called "pâtés" are actually terrines, so there you go.

I think the main difference between French-style and English-style pâtés/meat pies is the dough but basically they have the same origins. French style: the dough is thick and hard, meant to isolate the inside and preserve its flavors, and in the case of pâté en croûte is it not meant to be eaten. The English hot-water raised dough is delicious to eat but it is not used in French cooking. French pâtés encased in puff pastry or butter/lard shortcrust are generally eaten warm, dough and all. They are lovely old-fashioned dishes, worth reviving.

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Oh, these are beautiful! I've never made a terrine, and now I have to get going on them. I don't have accents, sorry, but one question I have is about how to keep the filling from shrinking away from the croute - the pates en croute in Las Halles photo, which are all presumably made by professionals, all seem to have this problem.

Besides the book recommendations already made, does anyone have a good online source for molds? I'll be away from cooking, and maybe even from here if I'm unlucky with my connection, for a couple of weeks, but I'd love to try some terrines when I get home.

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... one question I have is about how to keep the filling from shrinking away from the croute - the pates en croute in Las Halles photo, which are all presumably made by professionals, all seem to have this problem.

It's not a "problem", it's a fact of life. :biggrin: You'll note in the "Les Halles" photos that the gap has been nicely filled in with aspic. The filling always pulls away from the pastry shell, and the aspic is poured in after baking to keep the whole affair from caving in. Use a lovely, properly seasoned aspic and the band-aid becomes a flourish!

Wish I could help you with sourcing the molds. I bought mine years ago from a mail-order source. I have the old-fashioned tinned variety (held together by little clips). I'm sure someone must be selling those on the web. I believe that Le Crueset has an enameled terrine that should work for the rectangular style, though it won't impart the cool herring-bone pattern to the finished product.

Lucy, thanks for starting this discussion. By coincidence, I picked up a second-hand copy of Olney's "Simple French Food" today at my local book store today. Now I know which chapter to read first. :rolleyes: I love the way he makes the terrine of veal sweetbreads sound almost not worth making. Then he makes it sound so worth making.

I would add another reference book to the list: Jane Grigson's The Art of Making Sausages, Pâtés, and other Charcuterie. An old standby.

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I've followed Jane Grigson's Charcuterie and French Pork Cooking a few times, and it's worked fine, although I tend to undersalt as well. It's surprising how much you need to put in these things.

Adam, do you have any suggestions for where to get caul in Edinburgh? I've tried a couple of butchers to no avail.


PS

Edinburgh

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It seems that a lot of terrines call for pistachios.  I wonder why that is.  They are very good in a rabbit terrine...

Hazelnuts go very well too. Patricia Wells in Bistro Cooking has a recipe for rabbit terrine that has hazelnuts, some crushed juniper berries and a bit of gin along with other flavours. It's one of my favourites :smile:

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I have to admit, I have not made a paté in a very long time because I shop across the border in France and they always have a simple country paté for €2.50/kilo. It is delicious and everyone loves it and for that price I couldn't be bothered to make it. Besides, when I make it myself I hate to see how much fat goes into a good paté. :shock:

Never be scared to buy the cheap paté from a French grocery store.

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Adam, do you have any suggestions for where to get caul in Edinburgh? I've tried a couple of butchers to no avail.

I would love to know as well. I have asked a few times and the butchers say that it is possible, but resturants tend to pre-order it (which ones I wonder, I have never seen any evidence of it). Oddly I was taking to a friend about this today he mentioned that he got his from a Turkish butcher. Sadly, this is in London.

Good back-fat is also an issue.

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The English pork pie is basically a terrine after all.

Technically, it is more a pâté. The original pâtés of France were encased in dough and kept for a long time. Now the distinctions are somewhat blurred, but it is commonly understood that a terrine is a preparation of meats/fish/forcemeats/vegetables etc. baked in an earthenware dish (the terrine), and a pâté en croûte is baked in a case of dough in some mold or terrine. But some preparations called "pâtés" are actually terrines, so there you go.

I think the main difference between French-style and English-style pâtés/meat pies is the dough but basically they have the same origins. French style: the dough is thick and hard, meant to isolate the inside and preserve its flavors, and in the case of pâté en croûte is it not meant to be eaten. The English hot-water raised dough is delicious to eat but it is not used in French cooking. French pâtés encased in puff pastry or butter/lard shortcrust are generally eaten warm, dough and all. They are lovely old-fashioned dishes, worth reviving.

More information on English pies Ivan Day's Pies

Quite right. Orginally, many of the crusts of the English style pies were not meant to be eaten either. The pie was a way of preserving meat or protecting it for transportation. English pork pies are a survivor of a greater tradition, yesterday I heard a lecture on the history of English pies and it was mentioned that there was some evidence to suggest that the crust were not always eaten even in small pies ('chewits') and in some cases was recycled.........


Edited by Adam Balic (log)

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Here are the pictures of the rabbit terrine which I put together this weekend. :smile:

The process is relatively easy and does not require any special skills. There are many very simple recipes for terrines, and this does require steps, but I can say that the whole process is simple in terms of technique. I read several recipes for rabbit terrine, and had begun the project with the idea that I would simply do what struck me as I worked my way through the process, so things changed this way and that as the process developed. It actually did not take long once I got working nor was it difficult. The most technical thing about the whole thing is boning the rabbit, and with a shrp knife, it's a pleasure.

gallery_15176_1104_1514.jpg

The evening before, as I had dinner on, I took some time to bone the rabbit, and chop the poitrine, as well as a few slices of cured ham. I didn't measure the ingredients, since I was making it to fit my loaf cake pan, I don't have any special terrine pans. I had two saddles and two hind legs. I boned and chopped the meat from one saddle, and removed the meat carefully in two pieces from one side of the saddle, and flattened the haunch filet. There is one large flat thin filet that extends down from the ribs, which is darker meat, and a larger thicker white meat morsel along the haunch that can be flattened by slicing in and folding in increments. These I set aside and then minced the rest of the meat. I prepared a marinade as follows:

1/4 cup white wine

1/4 cup olive oil

1 T. good herbes de provence

2 bay leaves

some crumbled sage

chopped parsley

pepper and salt

The rabbit, including the larger pieces, was set in the marinade, covered with plastic wrap in the bowl, and left to marinate overnight.

gallery_15176_1104_76026.jpg

With the bones, I made a small stock, with onion, carrot, the skin from the ham, some leek greens, parsley, bay leaf, and some sage. This was simmered for an hour and then left to cool overnight. The next morning, I strained the stock and set it to reduce.

gallery_15176_1104_9751.jpg

I then made the duxelles, (Olney does not put duxelles in his rabbit terrine, nor does he use cream when he does prepare duxelles, but I like to do that) which contains:

2 T. butter

1/2 minced white onion

about 200g champignons de Paris (white mushrooms)

salt & pepper

3T. creme fraiche

1T. lemon juice

2T. chopped fresh parsley

Mince the mushrooms (I did this in 30 seconds in the moulinex), and start the onions and butter over medium heat until they soften and start giving off their juice. Add the minced mushrooms, and let simmer, stirring from time to time, until they release their juice, continuing until all of the juice is evaporated. You have to watch it more closely near the end, it takes about 15 minutes from beginning to end. Add the creme fraiche to bind it, the lemon juice to brighten it, and season. Add the parsley at the end.

gallery_15176_1104_24443.jpggallery_15176_1104_30591.jpg

Then make the panade:

1 clove of garlic

about 100g. of yesterday's bread, crusts removed

Mash the garlic and the bread in the mortar.

gallery_15176_1104_3541.jpg

By this time, the stock should be just about reduced to where you want it, you should have 2 or 3 tablespoons.

gallery_15176_1104_80059.jpg

Add the reduced stock and mush it till it's a paste.

gallery_15176_1104_61981.jpg

I then added a bit of water to this and stirred it over heat to make it smoother. I reduced it until it was a paste.

The rest is simple, I just put together the forcemeat:

the 250g. chopped fresh poitrine (which is the meat that bacon's made from but it's not smoked)

a couple of thin slices cured ham (de savoie, proscuitto, or country ham)

the duxelles

the panade

a splash of cognac

seasonings:

gallery_15176_1104_22995.jpg

nutmeg, pepper, a good dose of salt, some creole seasoning (or cayenne if you haven't made any creole seasoning), and some more herbes de provence

and some pistachios which I parboiled and peeled before roughly chopping

gallery_15176_1104_15572.jpg

gallery_15176_1104_92188.jpg

Once that was combined with the chopped rabbit, I spread the flattened and marinated filets with dijon mustard and rolled up some carrots and parsley in the flattened filets which had marinated overnight:

gallery_15176_1104_22967.jpg

These were then rolled

gallery_15176_1104_26647.jpg

The meat was very pliable and they rolled up nice and easily, and stayed put. If I had known they would roll so nicely I would have done at least 2 more like that because they will have a nice effect in the terrine.

I then simply assembled the terrine:

This fat is called "bard" in France.

gallery_15176_1104_135357.jpg

Fill in the bottom and make a channel for the rolls to be fit in end to end. I would have made more rolls and fit them in if I had the chance. I can even imagine making three rolls, and putting them in in such a way that they would make a heart shape in the terrine. But I didn't do that. I just had enough to do one roll in the middle. (the rolls looked strangely phallic and I didn't upload them but if you really want to see them I will upload the pictures.)

gallery_15176_1104_3373.jpg

After the rolls were put in, I took the pits out of a few marinated black olives I had in the fridge and did one row for a stripe of color.

gallery_15176_1104_72391.jpg

gallery_15176_1104_22198.jpg

gallery_15176_1104_17635.jpg

Then rest of the stuffing was mounded in, the bard folded over the whole thing, and it went into a bain marie for 1.5 hours. After that I fitted a piece of cardboard covered with foil the size of the inside of my tin, placed to glasses on top, and weighed it down with a big book. I followed Richard Olney's advice to do this over a pan, and I got lots of juice which went into that night's soup. When that was done and it was cool, I poured just enough duck fat over the top to seal it and it's in the fridge now. I want to cut it on Friday, we're going to have some people over for dinner. :biggrin:

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OK the pics are up. I don't want to cut into it before its time, so that will be this Friday. I think the next terrine will be a veggie terrine.

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