High Alcohol Wines: Over 14%

[Rebel Rose]

I'd love to hear from a grower on this issue because I'm totally clueless and wouldn't mind being enlightened.

This is a topic that has been oft discussed in our region. Every growing region has its advantages and challenges. Growers here love the soils, and the long, warm growing season with a nice 50 degree diurnal swing. Late frosts are rare, hailstorms rarer, no fog to contend with--we don't have the crop-destroying challenges of other areas. Our challenge is that we do have long, warm growing days and very cool nights (50 degrees), so the grapes achieve sugar ripeness slightly ahead of pigment, flavor development, and toasty pips. In order to pick at optimum flavor, we wait a little longer than other regions--resulting in wines with higher alcohol, yes, and also much more intense flavor due to the longer 'hang time.'

You see, the little buggers do not necessarily develop evenly, and in any area, it's a huge challenge for growers to keep the grapes on track, so that sugar, pigment, flavor and pips are all ripening on schedule. (Which is why they say 90% of a good wine is made in the vineyard. That's because 90% of the work and emotional stress happens in the vineyard!!!) Soil deficiencies, vine diseases, sucking pests, drought, rainy seasons, generally affect one or two factors, throwing the whole vine off balance.

Here's what vintners look for:

Sugar--with practice you can guess Brix by tasting. Easy. Vintners want to pick at 22-24 (resulting alcohol will be roughly half of the Brix), but must also evaluate the grapes for the following . . .

Pigment--it's a really good sign when the weight of the grapes in the picking bin results in some dark, juicy leakage at the bottom. When you squeeze a cluster, does your hand turn purple? Sometimes the grapes look ripe, but just don't release much color. How thick is the skin? We want thick, purple skins, but not tough or fibrous.

Flavor--do the grapes have recognizable varietal character? Does the acid seem out of whack with the sugar?

Pips--the seeds should be fat, brown and toasty. They should burst happily between your teeth and taste like popcorn. Not green.

So you see, it's a fine balancing act. Vintners do not intentionally "jack up" the alcohol or concentration or tannin. Their goal is to bring the fruit in when everything is in perfect balance, and keep it that way through the vintning process. It's hard to keep everything in balance. We don't always suceed, but when we do, mmm mmm!

[Brad Ballinger]

Thanks, Mary. And this lends support to the balance issue. An alcohol percentage on the label is a federal requirement in the U.S., and maybe should be viewed as nothing more. Beverages are taxed according to the percentage of alcohol, which is one reason for including it on the label.

But, as I mentioned above, wines can be labeled high alcohol and have great balance, and other s can be labeled low alcohol and still come across as alcoholic.

So for the Argentine grower, it's not that he should harvest at lower brix or alcohol, but that the winemaker makes a balanced wine.

Revisiting the title of the thread, sometimes it is certainly alcohol overkill. Other times it is ripeness overkill.

But one comment on the following...

Vintners do not intentionally "jack up" the alcohol or concentration or tannin.

I'll give you this point on tannin (edited to add: although some tannin comes from oak, so...). I can't give it to you on the others. Chaptalization jacks up alcohol. Overripeness jacks up alcohol. Roto fermenters and spinning cones jack up concentration.

[Rebel Rose]

You got it.

Bordeaux has the opposite problem in terms of balance. Their cooler growing season postpones sugar development, so getting the grapes ripe is a huge challenge. That's why they practice cepage. They reserve part of their best vintages as insurance against green vintages, when the grapes are not adequately ripe or developed. Then they blend the good vintage into the less-than-perfect one to create a consistent wine. Their wines are amazing, and I think it adds to the enjoyment of a Bordeaux to really appreciate the challenges the vignerons face in creating them!

[Rebel Rose]

Chaptalization jacks up alcohol. Overripeness jacks up alcohol. Roto fermenters and spinning cones jack up concentration.

Eh, sad but true. You're totally right. I don't think about those methods normally, because (ssh) when Dover Dan and I hear about someone using these expensive methods of wine manipulation, our reaction is, "What the hell?" It's inconceivable to us that someone would actually do that to a wine, much less pay for it. It's so easy to screw up a wine for free.

I guess that's the difference between a 'vintner' and a 'producer'.

[Echezeaux]

We often ask ourselves "Just how DID they manage to make such good wines way-back-when at only 12-13% alcohol?"

Part of today's "problem" is not only chasing points and making wines for competitive tastings, but greed. Given the amazingly high prices, many vineyards are pushed for quantity. I've heard some grower/winemakers say "The only way you can squeeze a bit of character out of these over-cropped vines is to pick the fruit later and at higher sugar levels."

There IS a difference between wines for drinking and wines for "tastings." This distinction, however, is not an important one for many wine buyers.

[jbonne]

what i do wonder, with ever more talk about physiological maturation, is whether the ever-expanding realm of viticultural knowledge has extended hang time and pushed picking dates later into the season.

not sure there's any empirical way to track such things, but i'd be curious whether winemakers have grown willing to let their grapes hang just that tiny bit longer, hoping that science will allow them to roll the dice and keep them from getting too cold or too wet as the season wears on.

not saying that alone would hike the alcohol levels, but it might help explain part of it.

as to getting a wine back down from 15 percent, as in the Argentina case, seems to be a tricky thing, no? one suggestion that emerged last weekend in a discussion of Oregon's tricky 2003 extra-ripe pinot crop, was the addition of a bit of, ahem, "very dilute acid" in the balancing process. which is not to say it helped the wine at all.

my non-winemaker self is very puzzled by it all ...

[wnissen]

Given that in most of the traditional winemaking regions of Europe, it is a struggle to acheive either ripeness or maturity before rains and rot set it, why would anyone expect that the same vines planted in much warmer climactic conditions be as balanced as in Europe? If that were the case, it would be a huge surprise, the effects of rootstock, trellis, irrigation, and hills notwithstanding. The way I see it, you have two choices: 1. Grow in a marginal climate, fighting for both ripeness and maturity and therefore producing in poor years wines that are green and thin, and in great years wines where the acid, sugar, and flavor all come together perfectly. This is the European model. Or 2., Grow in a warm area, where ripeness is nearly a given, and hope that you get maturity before the potential alcohol hits 17%. This is the new world model.

From the standpoint of a multi-million case brand, the choice is obvious. Even the supermarket consumer demands a vintage date, but is not willing to put up with any vintage variation. We just don't allow our wines to be sub-par in sub-par years. So unless the perception of wine as almost a manufactured product changes (not likely, seeing as we insist on year-round tomatoes and cheap chicken no matter the cost), the big producers are going to have to make the easy layup and grow wines in places where ripeness is rarely an issue. Even when we're talking about premium wines, I certainly see a trend that the most sought-after wines are ones that are most consistent from year to year. This just makes sense. I don't fault anyone for desiring a consistent wine, because it sucks to be stuck with inferior wine.

However, I have a hard time accepting 14.5% alcohol chardonnays and pinot noirs as table wines. I want it all: ripe fruit and acid. Flabby wines taste good (like fruit syrups) on their own, but just taste harsh when placed with food. I'm willing to do some work and taste the wines in order to find the ones that are balanced. My cellar is 45% California, so clearly I'm no hater of the new world.

P.S. At least in Australia, powdered tannin is OK. And acidification is OK in California.

[Rebel Rose]

Is it a passing fad?

Is it a new expression of physiological ripening? An expression of terroir?

Do only California wineries produce wines over 13%?

Can it be done gracefully? Do big-alcohol wines have a place on your shelf?

Eric Asimov tackles the issue in today's New York Times:

The Hard Stuff Now Includes Wine

Related Topic:

East Coast vs. West Coast palates

[SparrowsFall]

Great that Asimov tackled this. The winemaker's point is well-taken: if they want to make this kind of wine, and it's what the terroir seems to want, more power to them. (Though the Languedoc and Spain don't seem to require this style of winemaking.)

I only object because that style of winemaking is devouring the old-world style in the old world, because Robert Parker likes that kind of wine.

I hate that kind of wine--blockbuster, hedonistic, overextracted, heavilly oaked, outré American monster-truck experience. I find much of it undrinkable. And it really bugs me that my favorite vineyard, Gruaud Larose, now makes that kind of wine, not the kind they've made for decades or centuries, a wine I adore. Because of Parker.

Flame off.

Steve

[melkor]

Zind-Humbrecht in Alsace makes a number of wines with more than 14%, white wines at that... Some of it has a place on my shelf - the Zind-Humbrecht's certainly do, along with a bunch of Turleys, but it's been a while since I bought any California cabs and the only California chards I've picked up in the past several years have been Montelena and Joseph Swan both of which are atypical for California chardonnay. My palate I don't think qualifies as either East or West coast - I hope that doesn't mean I have a fly over state palate...

[Jason Perlow]

As far as my tastes are concerned, If a wine is over 12-13 percent alcohol (yes, I know, it eliminates a ton of California wine) its flawed because it won't go well with food. It means it can't stand on its own without the heat and it is totally unbalanced. But that's just me.

[Rebel Rose]

Actually, Jason, even though we make higher alcohol wines at Dover Canyon, I agree that lower alcohols are more food friendly. The 14%ers are better fireside wines--good for a game of chess or a murder mystery when I just want to savor a really rich wine.

However, I continue to notice that most discussions about higher alcohol wines tend to omit the Rhones, which are often high in alcohol, whether European or American.

I also find that I gravitate to wines with gentler tannins for food, like sangiovese and pinot noir. The sangios and pinots can still be high in alcohol as far as I'm concerned, as long as they have plenty of fruit acid and not too much oak. If a pinot, for instance, is 13% to 14%, and fleshy with fruit, mushroom and spice flavors, but still with a little acidic zing and no planky over-oaked character, I'm a happy camper indeed.

So let's remember to include some other varietals in our discussion. . .

[malcolmjolley]

Jancis Robinson had a great piece on this on her site last year. Can't find it, but her big beef was the interruption of flavour from the food (as per Jason's post) and that sometimes it's nice to kick back and a drink a few glasses of wine without worrying about a headache the next day.

[Jason Perlow]

Actually, Jason, even though we make higher alcohol wines at Dover Canyon, I agree that lower alcohols are more food friendly. The 14%ers are better fireside wines--good for a game of chess or a murder mystery when I just want to savor a really rich wine.

Generally speaking, I never drink wine just to drink wine -- I'm not a wine person, I am a food person that drinks wine, so I like my wines to match well with the food I eat. Now that being said, I do drink high alcohol wines on occasion, but they are usually fortified, such as a port or a sherry, and typically I will have them with a cheese course or as a cocktail substitute later on in the evening

[carswell]

Now that being said, I do drink high alcohol wines on occasion, but they are usually fortified, such as a port or a sherry, and typically I will have them with a cheese course or as a cocktail substitute later on in the evening

←

And if you're like me, you typically have a small glass or two of that Port. Yet lots of people often drink a half bottle (or more) of wine with dinner — that's three good sized glasses of wine. And, as Asimov points out, when it's a 15% zinfandel instead of a 12% gamay, they're consuming 25% more alcohol, in this case more than enough to make them a little tipsy.

The scariest wine tasting I ever attended was devoted to these firebombs. In number and volume, the pours were identical to those at every other table wine tasting. When the tasting ended and everybody left to drive home, the participants' cars were weaving across the traffic lanes. That never happened after a tasting of normal wines.

The thing is, California is perfectly capable of making delicious wines with moderate alcohol levels. Some of Ridge's wines from the '70s and '80s clocked in at 12.5-13.5% (e.g. Geyserville: '82@12.6%, '83&'84@13.4%, '85@13.3%, '86@13.2%). And I'm pleased to note that the tasty Ca' del Solo (Bonny Doon) Charbono, which just made its inaugural appearance in Quebec, is a civilized 12.5% alc./vol.

Am still looking forward to my first taste of an old-fashioned Beaujolais. In Kermit Lynch's Adventures on the Wine Route, Paris wine merchant Jean-Baptiste Chaudet recalls pre-1945 Beaujolais as being "very light in color, at times really pale, slightly aggressive, even a touch green, and rarely above 11 degrees alcohol. In those days [...] Beaujolais was still very good, which is not the case today [...] above all because of this chaptalization, this addition of sugar to the must which allows them to raise the wine's alcoholic content up to 3 degrees." Lynch then compares Chaudet's description with the adjectives Parker uses to glowingly characterize modern Beaujolais: "soft, lush, silky, full, fleshy, rich." Oy.

Edited April 14, 2005 by carswell (log)

[TongoRad]

My overall tendencies will generally dovetail with Jason's but I must admit that one of my favoritest wines in the world clocks in at 15% (AbV)- Bertani Amarone. My experience with amateur winemaking (as well as meadmaking) favors the low temperature approach that Bertani claims to use. The difference is that the slower, and longer, ferentation gives a lower concentration of fusel alcohols (aka higher alcohols) to the end product. Those fusels will give a 'hotter alcoholic' sensation. Ultimately I will bow to Mary's expertise as far as the practices in California are concerned, but I do notice a difference in how alcohol can be percieved which may transcend the numbers and favor European producers.

Just something to throw into the mix...

[Really Nice!]

Is it a passing fad?

God, I hope so! Please, pass it along!

Is it a new expression of physiological ripening?  An expression of terroir?

How can alcohol in a wine be an expression of terroir? Over ripening a grape is no more an expression of terrior than it is to satisfy some ex-lawyer from Baltimore.

Do only California wineries produce wines over 13%?

Unfortunately no.

Can it be done gracefully? 

No. Excessive alcohol (> 11%) leaves a burning sensation on your tongue.

Do big-alcohol wines have a place on your shelf?

I'd like to say no, but what else is there?

[Jason Perlow]

And if you're like me, you typically have a small glass or two of that Port.

Which is why I almost never open any of my bottles of Port unless friends are coming over that I know will appreciate drinking some, because it has to be consumed within a week once its opened and decanted. Quite a few of my good Ports are Magnums as well.

[jbonne]

i considered this topic in a column last August.

and i don't think there's an easy answer. you can find 15-16 percent zinfandels that are in balance and can match food, and 13 percent Cabs that are thin, weedy and too unpleasant to pair with a meal.

since i wrote that piece, the ABV is probably the second or third thing i examine on a label, as it's an immediate shorthand for the style of the vintage, the winemaker, &c.

i've certainly enjoyed plenty of wines over 14 percent, but my personal buying habits lead me back to wines below that, which usually means wines from Europe, (and sometimes Oregon, though not so much in '03). the Piedmontese achieve wines of extraordinary complexity without exceeding 14 percent, as do a good majority of Rhone vintners.

that said, i accept we live in a world of sweet-craving palates, where high alcohol and the often resultant levels of R.S. are a sure bet in the marketplace.

[Adam Balic]

I would second the Bertani comments, excellent wines. I have also enjoyed dry sherry with food many times, no obvious alcohol burn etc. I would think that it would be a case by case basis, although I'm not a fan of >15% dry reds in general (too many zinfandels). Not that there will be many in this range, given the limitations of the yeast. Over all balance is more important then a strict reading of the alcohol content to me I think.

[Rebel Rose]

My experience with amateur winemaking (as well as meadmaking) favors the low temperature approach that Bertani claims to use. The difference is that the slower, and longer, fermentation gives a lower concentration of fusel alcohols (aka higher alcohols) to the end product. Those fusels will give a 'hotter alcoholic' sensation.

That's a very good point, Tongo. Extended cold maceration and slow, controlled fermentations are much more common now than even a few decades. Many wineries now have jacketed stainless fermentation tanks that cool the fermenting must to keep the rate of fermentation down. A hot, fast fermentation is like boiling your pasta sauce to hurry it to the table--it results in off flavors and a loss of quality.

Slow fermentations produce more pigment, body and flavor. At Dover, assuming we're working with quality fruit picked at the moment it most expresses its varietal character, we hope to end up with a wine that is full of character, with a proper balance of acidity and pH, and medium tannins. We shoot for final alcohol in the 12-14% range, although some releases go beyond that.

I do agree that it's alarming to see a wineries producing a lot of 15% plus wines. There's a fine line between giving grapes a chance to fully ripen and picking them a week too late.

There's also the issue of acidity or pH in a high alcohol wine--a high alc wine can still be graceful (for those of us who don't mind high alc) if it is buoyed by plenty of fruit acid. There's a current trend to produce high pH red wines (see pHat Wines, EnupH is enupH!) but when this style is combined with higher alcohols I always sense a hot mouthfeel, and sometimes mercaptans (burnt rubber).

But that's just me, rattling off some wine geek stuff. I love any well made wine, low, high, dry, sweet, pink, purple.

It would be fun to have a lower alcohol wine as a wine of the week.

[jbonne]

There's also the issue of acidity or pH in a high alcohol wine--a high alc wine can still be graceful (for those of us who don't mind high alc) if it is buoyed by plenty of fruit acid.  There's a current trend to produce high pH red wines (see pHat Wines *) but when this style is combined with higher alcohols I always sense a hot mouthfeel, and sometimes mercaptans (burnt rubber). 

←

thatsa lotta acid, no? i'm stunned by how high the pH in many red wines has gotten, along with the alcohol. whatever happened to balance?

[ademello]

No. Excessive alcohol (> 11%) leaves a burning sensation on your tongue.

←

That's a bit of a broad generalization - we all have different palates as well as varying tolearances for alcohol levels. I enjoy Mike Officer's wines from Carlisle, many of which regularly tip the scales at 15% and over (one was 16.9% if I remember correctly!), without noticing any heat. He is a master of balance, and the acidity and fruitiness play off the alcohol to such an extent as to make it unnoticeable.

I feel that it is important to distinguish between "cocktail' wines and food wines. Jason mentions that he only drinks wines as an accompaniment with food. That is certainly one experience that people do enjoy, but there is also the "purer" experience of enjoying wine on its own. Selecting wines purely based on what you are eating will certainly limit your viable selection of wines.

I also find that there is little bearing on varietal type and "appropriate" ABV as it relates to food pairing. I remember enjoying a Martinelli Pinot Noir with a monstrous ABV % with a very delicate sushi dinner. I also recall my first and only taste of a Marcassin chardonnay at 15% ABV paired with a scallop appetizer that was the most Chardonnay-y of any I have tried AND a perfect match for the scallops! I have no physiological evidence for this, but perhaps the extra alcohol has an astringent effect and cleanses the palate.

My last thought on this matter is that some of these monster wines pair very well with the same foods as the fortified/dessert wines that they compete with on an ABV level. I'm not sure if this is coincidental or not. Try pairing a Turley Zin with a nice aged cheese or with a dark chocolate dessert.

[Capaneus]

Zind-Humbrecht in Alsace makes a number of wines with more than 14%, white wines at that... 

←

Uh. I've been drinking Zind-Humbrecht's wines for well over a decade now, and my impression (though I don't usually check the alcohol content) is that they are pretty mild stuff. That's also my experience with other Alsatians as well, which makes sense, given the climate. Now, if you've climbed aboard recently, the last couple of vintages have been freakish, because of very hot summers. You'll find the same across much of Europe - including the Mosel, if you can believe it.

*****

The Jancis Robinson article stayed in my memory because of another point she made - that part of the problem is that many of these wines are neither designed nor ultimately destined to be drunk with food: more and more people are having them as a substitute for a cocktail, or in fact on occasions that once would have called for an apperitif, or champagne. Now whether the cart or the horses are leading that trend I will leave to your judgements. But I don't see it reversing itself. And some of this is not a bad thing. People forget how we used to bewail the quality of Bordeaux and Burgundies, year after year, until Parker came along to hold them to account. Many of these techniques and technologies are just *tools*, they can be well or poorly used. Overall, I think the quality of wine worldwide has greatly improved. It is only in the Realm Of The Sacred Cows that these changes are a problem, because they are mucking up the classics.

*****

As to Amarone... really, those wines cannot be used as evidence of anything, beautiful freaks that they are.

*****

I went to the Kobrand Pinot and Pork tasting here in Philly last night. Mostly American PN - except for a horizontal of Jadot's current vintage. I found myself sticking to his Pommard whenever I had food to eat, and drifting over to the HomeBoyz between bites. Make of that what you will. I enjoyed both, finally, and buy both. Except that I have a lot more trouble affording Burgundies, these days.

[melkor]

Zind-Humbrecht in Alsace makes a number of wines with more than 14%, white wines at that... 

←

Uh. I've been drinking Zind-Humbrecht's wines for well over a decade now, and my impression (though I don't usually check the alcohol content) is that they are pretty mild stuff. That's also my experience with other Alsatians as well, which makes sense, given the climate. Now, if you've climbed aboard recently, the last couple of vintages have been freakish, because of very hot summers. You'll find the same across much of Europe - including the Mosel, if you can believe it.

The Zind-Humbrecht wines in my cellar range in alcohol content from 11.5% for some of the SGNs to this wine which is better described by Parker than by me:

The 1994 Gewurztraminer Hengst V.T. represents the essence of Gewurztraminer. It tastes dry despite nearly 5% residual sugar. The natural alcohol comes in at an amazing 17+%....

There is a huge difference from vintage to vintage with their wines, the 2000 VTs in the cellar are 13.5%.