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Dryden

Tarte tatin for Passover

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Any help on this would be most appreciated - we have guests coming who love our tatin, but not too sure how to make a flour-free crust.


I want pancakes! God, do you people understand every language except English? Yo quiero pancakes! Donnez moi pancakes! Click click bloody click pancakes!

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Passover "alternatives" for crusts which will not give you what a flour pate brisee will but are acceptable for this holiday ... :hmmm:

I have used the matzo meal crust and the nut, and crushed cookie crust but it will not be what you are used to using ... it is, after all, only an eight day holiday ...

aha! Pam will have a more interesting answer with her background in baking ...


Melissa Goodman aka "Gifted Gourmet"

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This may be completely wacky and not at all what you're looking for - I've never done anything like it before - but what if you did the apples as you would... then pipe a thin layer of choux paste made with cake meal over it and bake?? Does that sound terrible? I'm thinking I may be on to something... or it may be an absolutely terrible idea :biggrin:

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aha! Pam will have a more interesting answer with her background in baking ...

I have an idea... I don't know if it's a good idea but it's an idea :wink:

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I've seen ground toasted almonds used as a sub for flour in "flourless" chocolate cakes. Would something like that be worth trying?

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See? She will have an answer for all of us .. how to make a puff pastry Passover tarte is something I have long dreamed about ...

a thin layer of choux paste made with cake meal
perhaps the butter, water, cake meal, and then do the thing with the four eggs added one at a time?

recipe:rolleyes:

I might just try this tomorrow as a quick experiment ...


Melissa Goodman aka "Gifted Gourmet"

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I've actually heard of one that is made from ground up macaroons (not the french ones, presumably) but have no idea where it goes from there... any thoughts?


I want pancakes! God, do you people understand every language except English? Yo quiero pancakes! Donnez moi pancakes! Click click bloody click pancakes!

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Passover macaroons are basically made from coconut and egg whites and are sticky and extremely, actually, cloyingly sweet ...

I think I would go with ground up nuts and butter and sugar ...

or the matzo meal and butter and sugar mixture ...

none of them will give you anything really too close to flour for the dessert.


Melissa Goodman aka "Gifted Gourmet"

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I still think my idea has potential :raz:

I figure it should puff somewhat - and will be as close to a 'puffed pastry' as you'll get.

I have made cream puffs before and they worked (it's just a passover roll with cake meal instead of matzo meal).

OK I'm done. :wink:

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Passover "alternatives" for crusts which will not give you what a flour pate brisee will but are acceptable for this holiday ...  :hmmm:

I have used the matzo meal crust and the nut, and crushed cookie crust but it will not be what you are used to using ... it is, after all, only an eight day holiday ...

aha! Pam will have a more interesting answer with her background in baking ...

Doesn't matzo meal contain flour? It's unleavened? The rule is, no leavened flour products, not neccesarily no flour products? If that's the case pate brisee fits the requirements.


I can be reached via email chefzadi AT gmail DOT com

Dean of Culinary Arts

Ecole de Cuisine: Culinary School Los Angeles

http://ecolecuisine.com

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Almond flour can be used as a somewhat passable sub for flour in a lot of passover baked goods. I'd go with ground pine nuts and almond flour (hazelnut flour is good too). You'll need more egg to hold the dough together and the texture will be a bit gritty, but we've made lemon tartes, brownies, etc this way for the last few sedars.

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Doesn't matzo meal contain flour? It's unleavened? The rule is, no leavened flour products, not neccesarily no flour products? If that's the case pate brisee fits the requirements.

You were doing fine until you started using logic... Sure matzo meal is flour and water, but just because you can use it doesn't mean you can use flour and water. You can make muffins and rolls and all sorts of other passover bread products that rise, but they can't use flour or yeast - steam is fine. :blink: The fact that none of this makes any sense is an integral part of the holiday in our house….

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Mixing of flour and water makes matzo but it must be done within the time of 18 minutes so there is no "rising" ... because the Israelites left Egypt in a hurry before the Egyptians could stop them, their bread did not have time to rise ... hence the eating of the flat matzos is the touchstone of this holiday ...


Melissa Goodman aka "Gifted Gourmet"

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Mixing of flour and water makes matzo but it must be done within the time of 18 minutes so there is no "rising" ... because the Israelites left Egypt in a hurry before the Egyptians could stop them, their bread did not have time to rise ... hence the eating of the flat matzos is the touchstone of this holiday ...

Pate brisee takes about 5 minutes to mix, but ideally it should rest for at least 30 minutes. Is that where the rub lies?


I can be reached via email chefzadi AT gmail DOT com

Dean of Culinary Arts

Ecole de Cuisine: Culinary School Los Angeles

http://ecolecuisine.com

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Doesn't matzo meal contain flour? It's unleavened? The rule is, no leavened flour products, not neccesarily no flour products? If that's the case pate brisee fits the requirements.

Once flour has come into contact with liquid, it must be baked withing 18 minutes - or else fermentation may take place, which is forbidden. You need to get your hands on special flour if you want to bake matzah. Then you have to work with the flour-liquid combo extremely fast and use an extremely hot oven to ensure that the final product is baked without any fermentation happening.

So basically, unless you own a matzah factory, you're not going to be using any flour for this holiday.

what we do instead is buy matzah in different forms - sheets to be eaten as 'bread'. Then their's farfel, which is used to make kugels (puddings), muffins, some sub it as rice and make a 'fried' farfel. Farfel is sheets of matzah that have been broken up into coin-size pieces.

next we have matzoh meal. It's ground - about the size of course breadcrumbs. Use this to make matzoh balls, kugels, passover rolls.

Last - cake meal. It's ground more than the meal and is subbed for flour. If you're baking, you're using this and perhaps some potato starch. It would be nice to say that it works the same way as flour, but it doesn't. It's already been baked once, so it's properties have changed. But once you work out some of the kinks, you can make interesting things... like cream puffs and chiffon cakes and brownies and cookies.

So ummm... yah. No flour.

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You were doing fine until you started using logic

It was not my intent to use this vile thing called logic. :biggrin:


I can be reached via email chefzadi AT gmail DOT com

Dean of Culinary Arts

Ecole de Cuisine: Culinary School Los Angeles

http://ecolecuisine.com

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It is less about logic than knowledge of the laws of Passover ... it takes a while to understand all of the ramifications ...


Melissa Goodman aka "Gifted Gourmet"

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Once flour has come into contact with liquid, it must be baked withing 18 minutes - or else fermentation may take place, which is forbidden. You need to get your hands on special flour if you want to bake matzah. Then you have to work with the flour-liquid combo extremely fast and use an extremely hot oven to ensure that the final product is baked without any fermentation happening.

I'm wondering if a pate brisee that has rested for just a few minutes rather the 30 or more recommended could still work? Less than 4 minutes to incorporate the butter into the flour, 1 to incorporate the tablespoon or so of water, let rest for 9 minutes, roll out (takes less than 3 minutes), slap onto the caramelized apples, run to the oven...


I can be reached via email chefzadi AT gmail DOT com

Dean of Culinary Arts

Ecole de Cuisine: Culinary School Los Angeles

http://ecolecuisine.com

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I'm wondering if a pate brisee that has rested for just a few minutes rather the 30 or more recommended could still work? Less than 4 minutes to incorporate the butter into the flour, 1 to incorporate the tablespoon or so of water, let rest for 9 minutes, roll out (takes less than 3 minutes), slap onto the caramelized apples, run to the oven...

In theory, I suppsoe it would work. But the practical side is another story. First you'd have to find flour that's OK. (It must be out there, for they use it for matzah but I have NEVER seen it in a store). Then you have to .. no wait. It has to be baked within 18 minutes of the liquid hitting the flour - I mean completely baked. If your prep time is 17-18 minutes, it's a no go.

Then you have the issue of people looking at you like you're crazy to be serving them something bake with flour on Passover! It's just not done.

Now, the question is can you make a shortcrust with cakemeal/potato starch?

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The flour used in matzoh is a special type, manufactured just for Passover use -- it's been scrutinized since harvest to make sure it doesn't come in contact with any moisture except for in the matzoh bakery.

Technically, you would be able to use this flour, following the 18 minute rule if you could get your hands on it. But, it's generally not available anywhere.


"Some people see a sheet of seaweed and want to be wrapped in it. I want to see it around a piece of fish."-- William Grimes

"People are bastard-coated bastards, with bastard filling." - Dr. Cox on Scrubs

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Can't you use a convection oven for baking? That has to take less time than a regular oven, right?

There's always a microwave option too, or perhaps I'm completely bonkers.

Soba

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Can't you use a convection oven for baking?  That has to take less time than a regular oven, right?

There's always a microwave option too, or perhaps I'm completely bonkers.

Soba

I'd say just a little bonkers :wink:

Using flour to bake just isn't really an option

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