Kosher Salt?

[Fat Guy]

My operating assumptions, which are partly backed up by the one piece of researched reporting I've seen (a Steingarten article):

1 - if you're using salt as an ingredient (aka dissolved in cooked food) it doesn't matter what kind you use -- it all tastes the same. Some people claim to be able to detect the iodine taste, so they prefer non-iodized salt, but I can't taste that difference. Many cooks find coarse salt easier to work with (grab), though.

2 - if you're sprinkling salt on finished food, the main difference in salts is crystal size (and therefore texture).

3 - in some other applications (e.g., brining, pickling, curing), the chemical composition and crystal size/shape of salt matters more.

[Fat Guy]

Recently I read (perhaps in these forums) that kosher salt, per se, isn't available in some parts of the world, specifically Europe. What is used in those places instead of kosher salt?

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Any other coarse salt, I imagine. It's odd that the name "kosher salt" has gained widespread use in the United States. Pretty much all salt is kosher unless it comes in contact with pork or something. Kosher salt gets its name because coarse salt is used in the koshering process to salt meat and therefore draw out the blood. Any coarse salt should do as a substitute.

[slkinsey]

For general purpose salt, there is not going to be anything "better" or "cleaner tasting" than Diamond Kosher salt. This is because this salt is 100% sodium chloride. There is no potassium iodide which, as Steven points out, some people say they don't like; there is no glucose (added to prevent breakdown of the potassium iodide) and more importantly there are no "free-pouring" anti-caking agents such as calcium silicate or, less commonly, ferric ammonium citrate, silicon dioxide, sodium ferrocyanide, magnesium silicate, magnesium carbonate, propylene glycol, aluminum calcium silicate, sodium aluminosilicate/sodium silicoaluminate, or calcium phosphate.

Sea salt is actually less "clean" than refined table salt -- although the reality is that all edible sea salts are >99% pure sodium chloride (sea salts are also refined, they're just refined by solar evaporation in combination with other techniques). As Steven points out, sea salts are largely distinguishable due to their shape and size, so unless you are sprinkling the salt on at the end so that it does not melt, there is no use in using expensive sea salt.

[ChefCrash]

Diamond Crystal is Thomas Keller's choice of kosher salt.

[Shel_B]

For general purpose salt, there is not going to be anything "better" or "cleaner tasting" than Diamond Kosher salt.  This is because this salt is 100% sodium chloride.  There is no potassium iodide which, as Steven points out, some people say they don't like; there is no glucose (added to prevent breakdown of the potassium iodide) and more importantly there are no "free-pouring" anti-caking agents such as calcium silicate or, less commonly, ferric ammonium citrate, silicon dioxide, sodium ferrocyanide, magnesium silicate, magnesium carbonate, propylene glycol, aluminum calcium silicate, sodium aluminosilicate/sodium silicoaluminate, or calcium phosphate.

←

You left out yellow prussiate of soda (a water-soluble, anti-caking agent)

shel

[emsny]

Note that Morton's kosher is nearly twice as dense (i.e. heavy per unit of volume) as Diamond Crystal, so if you're used to one it takes quite a bit of adjustment to get used to the other. Also, some food writers give precise quantities of "kosher salt" in their recipes - useless unless you know which brand they're using.

[dougal]

Well, at least there's something I can (more or less) agree on with Fat Guy!

After you've dissolved it, the crystal shape and size don't mean a thing.

HOWEVER, the reason that crystal size CAN make a difference with brining and such is if you try to use volume measures, like measuring cups or spoons.

With big crystals, you get more air (and therefore less salt) in your cup or spoon.

Now, that's not such a big deal if you are cooking and taste-test for correct seasoning (as long as you don't over-salt it by using smaller crystals - more salt to the spoonful - than the recipe writer anticipated).

But its different if you are using the salt as a preservative, or elsewhere when you simply can't judge the correctness of your quantity by taste.

Note that this problem (of accurately communicating salt measurement) disappears entirely if weight measures are used instead of volume measures.

The size (and texture/shape) of the crystals also determines how quickly they dissolve.

This can, allegedly, matter to some dry curers. Maybe.

BUT, much more importantly, it matters when the crystals are dissolving on the tongue.

The shape, texture and crystal size do make quite a difference to taste perception when they are eaten as salt crystals.

As slkinsey says, "purity" does get horribly confused between chemical purity and purity of tradition or origin.

The French "Sel Gris" is very 'pure' in the sense that, er, its just ordinary seawater with the water taken away, but chemically its terribly impure - which is why it is actually grey, not white.

The premier British salt would be Maldon (crystal, sea) salt. The traditional method of production produces flakes, airy assemblages of tiny crystals, being particularly pleasant in the mouth (small so fast dissolving giving a "strong" taste, yet seeming "mild" because of all the air and maybe the whole crystal not contacting the tongue simultaneously) . But as loose flakes, you get more air (and less salt) in your measuring spoon. Think of the difference between sugar and candyfloss... Maldon is a sort of candyfloss salt! http://www.maldonsalt.co.uk/

If a recipe specifies salt by volume (spoons, etc) its well worth checking to see what sort of salt is specified, because if you should happen to be using a different type you probably should be using either more (easy to fix later) or less (a definite problem).

Chefs tend to use a lot of salt, British chefs tend to use Maldon routinely, and this creates a risk of very high sodium food if table salt is substituted in the same volume quantity!

After I worked out that the UK anti-caking agents were used at a concentration of about a teaspoonful to a ton of salt, and discovered that the safe daily dose of pure additive was actually bigger than the safe dose of pure salt, I stopped bothering about something I (personally) certainly can't taste.

Different places add different amounts of Iodine - depending on the local mineral deficiency. If you reckon you can taste it, my advice would be to check up on your local conditions, and if you avoid Iodine in salt, find another way of supplementing your intake - because its probably rather short otherwise. And that's well-intentioned advice from someone with only half a thyroid...

Edited September 1, 2008 by dougal (log)

[paulraphael]

You left out yellow prussiate of soda (a water-soluble, anti-caking agent)

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That's the poetic name for sodium ferrocyanide

[jayt90]

Windsor kosher salt, in Canada, has a prussiate additive, for anti-caking.

Oddly, Windsor pickling salt does not have an additive, so it is my choice for general use.

Edited September 4, 2008 by jayt90 (log)

[slkinsey]

As slkinsey says, "purity" does get horribly confused between chemical purity and purity of tradition or origin.

The French "Sel Gris" is very 'pure' in the sense that, er, its just ordinary seawater with the water taken away, but chemically its terribly impure - which is why it is actually grey, not white.

Actually, no sea salt is "seawater with the water taken away." As I said before, all edible salt is at least 99% sodium chloride. Sea water contains 7.68% sulphate, 3.69% magnesium, 1.16% calcium, 1.10% potassium and around 0.72% other stuff. Sea salt is refined using fractional crystallization via solar evaporation, and sometimes by "washing" of the resulting crystallized sodium chloride with a saturated solution of sodium chloride. The color comes from a minute percentage of "other stuff" that remains in the salt.

[Recoil Rob]

FYI, in "Charcuterie" it's stated that one cup of Morton's Kosher weighs almost 8 ounces,whereas one cup of diamond Crystal weighs 4.8 ounces, hence the importance of weighing your salt when used for preservation.

[paulraphael]

Has anyone done a blind taste test to see if they can really taste iodide or anti-caking agents?

I think the way to do it would be with non-sea salt (so there aren't other minerals confusing things) and with the salt disolved in water (so the texture can't be an influence).

[Shel_B]

Has anyone done a blind taste test to see if they can really taste iodide or anti-caking agents?

I think the way to do it would be with non-sea salt (so there aren't other minerals confusing things) and with the salt disolved in water (so the texture can't be an influence).

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A chef friend tasted Diamond Crystal and Morton's Kosher Salt, and he concluded that there was a clear difference between the two, with Diamond Crystal having a "cleaner" taste. Another person, on another cooking board, came to the same conclusion.

shel

[Chris Amirault]

Was the salt tasted in its original form, or was it ground to a powder to eliminate the effect of the crystal size and shape? If the former, then the test is bogus: it's very easy to tell texturally whether you've got Morton's or Diamond in your mouth if you know both.

[nickrey]

As has been said above, refined sea salt is more or less equivalent to table salt. At 99.9% Sodium Chloride in both, there is no argument there.

Looking up chemical analysis of unrefined sea salt on the web, most express the NaCl content as being anywhere from 95 to 98%. This leaves 2% to 5% of the ingredients in sea salt that are not in pure salt. These are mostly other minerals.

So there is something additional in sea salt apart from texture.

Taste as a sense is well able to distinguish extremely small amounts of compounds (the sensory threshold for tasting sugar is a concentration of .005 gram per cubic centimeter of water; for saccharin, it is 0.0000005 gram per cubic centimeter of water). Even small amounts of the additional minerals in sea salt are likely to leave their own flavor signature.

For cooking, the question is not so much one of whether we can taste the difference between the different types of salt as one of whether these have a different effect on the food we are preparing.

I found an article on the web about the effects of salt on the taste of coffee. The interesting thing for us is a comment on the effects of different sea salts that were used. As this was not the key purpose of the experiment, it should have reduced an expectation effect. They used five different salts that were dissolved in the coffee (presumably removing any texture effects). The reported effect of the salt on the flavor of the coffee varied according to which salt was used, with each bringing out different components of the coffee.

People above and in other fora have written on blind tasting saline solutions made from the different types of salt. Perhaps we should instead be doing a blind tasting on how different types of salt enhances flavor; after all that is how we use it.

[paulraphael]

I found an article on the web about the effects of salt on the taste of coffee.

Can you post a link?

[budrichard]

I use Morton Kosher salt for cooking. I tried Diamond but since I was used to Morton, no sale. It's just what you are used to, neither is better.

I use a commercial variety for canning/preservation because its a little cheaper. I hate to admit we have one fancy sea salt we have been using for a long time because of its large crystals which if added externally, give quite a salt buzz when you encounter one.

That said, salt is salt and all of its eons old whether mined, from the sea or any other process except putting a base and acid together. I am particularly wary of colored salts because they have no analysis for contaminants and heavy metals.

I am also amazed at the prices asked for these salts! Clearly PT Barnum was correct.-Dick

[jsmeeker]

has there been any change to Diamond Crystal salt recenty? It takes me a while to go through a box if it. So, I don't buy it regularly, even if it's the salt I use for all my cooking. (baking usually is done with Morton's table salt).

I bought a box the other week. This stuff seems smaller grained that what I had in the previous box. Am I nuts? Or has anyone else noticed anything.

[Rebecca263]

We use Diamond here at home. I buy at least 3 boxes a year- we use it for cleaning as well as kashering and cooking. I bought a new box last week and I just checked it. The crystals seem exactly the same as the box I bought in November of last year.

I tried Morton's but found it kind of 'heavy' tasting, maybe it is the size of the crystals, I don't know- but we definitely prefer Diamond in our home. Somehow it just tastes fresher, more like plain salt, to me.

[Chefjpk]

Sodium ferrocyanide is the anti-caking agent in Morton’s Kosher Salt. When it comes in contact with an acidic ingredient, a hydrogen cyanide gas is forms. Consumption is hazardous. My question is threefold. What is the percentage of Sodium ferrocyanide in Morton’s Kosher Salt? Should we not preserve lemons in Morton’s Kosher Salt? Is this product gluten free?

[jayt90]

You need pure salt for pickling. No additives. Diamond Crystal kosher should be fine, or any coarse pickling salt.

[Porthos]

I would like to know how many micrograms-per-gram the concentration is and then look into how much gas is formed before forming my opinion.

[Martin Fisher]

Call Morton's and ask for the MSDS sheet...it may or may not be helpful....their MSDS sheets tend to encompass more than one product and are very general.

I know that a lot folks use Morton's Kosher for fermentation, so it shouldn't be a problem.

If you're still concerned, use a real Koshering salt such as David's or Canning and Pickling salt, neither contains additives.

Edited November 5, 2013 by DiggingDogFarm (log)

[gfweb]

I am unconcerned about miniscule amounts of HCN that might be generated during cooking. Neither is FDA which has approved the product.

[Shalmanese]

According to this PDF

The maximum amount of Yellow Prussiate of Soda in the salt products listed above is 13ppm or 0.0013%

This is too inconsequential to care about from a food safety perspective.