Roberto's in da Bronx (off Arthur Ave.)

[Rachel Perlow]

Did you read everything I posted above? I gave you things to order and to not order, and why. I don't know specifically what they don't do well. Somehow I tend to order well, I guess, and when I haven't I don't order it again (the Seafood Pasta in Cartochio, teensy Veal Scallopini, for example). I doubt I would have ordered the soft shell crab, so I wouldn't know to tell you not to order it, you know what I mean?

Tell you what, next time you're going to Roberto's, drop me a PM or email and I'll tell you my cell phone number. If you can't decide what to order, call me and I'll talk you through the menu!

[Rachel Perlow]

Say you're presented with a long list of specials.

←

You are always presented with a long list of specials. I would get the whole fresh fish, possibly served marichera, the pasta in cartochio with eggplant, any grilled or braised chop. Actually, I usually order off the specials list, the regular menu is full of typical Italian menu dishes, the specials board is more interesting and it's what they are featuring that night as fresh.

As for their no reservations policy, we only make Roberto's a destination if we can get there before 6 PM (I think they open at 5 or 5:30 for dinner). I didn't even know they were open for lunch. Other times, when it's been spur of the moment and we end up there at prime time (6:30-9 PM), one of us goes in and checks the wait before the other even parks the car. If they wait is too long, we've recently been going to Umberto's, where we've never had a wait. We tried Dominick's again recently (after vowing not to go back after they way overcharged us a few years ago), and it was OK, but not fabulous. Dominick's is another place where you should go with what the waiter is pushing. If, when you are confronted with no menu, you fall back on veal or chicken parm, don't bother with that there. The stuffed peppers were good if I remember correctly, and the steak pizzeola.

[Sneakeater]

OK. Then let me put it this way. Again, not to be argumentative (when a lawyer says that, you know you should stop reading there and then -- I really apologize if I'm being obnoxious).

At least as I read them, your posts list exactly ONE dish that you'd recommend avoiding (I'm not talking about your warning of small portions, which (a) wasn't what gaf complained about and (b) sounds like they'd be a relief by the time you got to the secondi there). They make Roberto's sound like a generally good -- even excellent -- and generally reliable restaurant. They don't make Roberto's sound like the kind of place where you have to order carefully, and avoid certain whole classes of dishes, to avoid disappointment.

So I'm still puzzled by Jason's response to gaf's post.

Obviously, this is a bigger point. It just bothers me when people post honest reviews of places and then get castigated for "ordering wrong". From your posts, I don't see how gaf should have had any idea he was "ordering wrong".

Edited May 22, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Rachel Perlow]

I'm not the one who said he ordered wrong. I was just responding to Pan's request for things to order at Roberto's. I've never found anything distastefull about the scallopini, I just prefer not to order it. The only dish that I've ever been truly disappointed with, and it was recommended to me by someone else to order it, was the seafood in cartocio, and you've now been warned by me that the seafood tends to get overcooked. Next time we're there we'll take a pic of the specials board and go over it in more detail. If someone else is there first, either take a pic or transcribe it and we'll do the same. Or, tell me when you're going and we can talk you through the menu, seriously.

[Sneakeater]

I'm not the one who said he ordered wrong.

←

Do you know what precedes the famous line in (I think it is) The Pickwick Papers that "the law is a ass"?

[Sneakeater]

I'm not the one who said he ordered wrong. I was just responding to Pan's request for things to order at Roberto's. I've never found anything distastefull about the scallopini, I just prefer not to order it. The only dish that  I've ever been truly disappointed with, and it was recommended to me by someone else to order it, was the seafood in cartocio, and you've now been warned by me that the seafood tends to get overcooked. Next time we're there we'll take a pic of the specials board and go over it in more detail. If someone else is there first, either take a pic or transcribe it and we'll do the same. Or, tell me when you're going and we can talk you through the menu, seriously.

←

Thanks, BTW. Seriously.

[Rachel Perlow]

While in the shower just now, I was thinking about how to order "right" at Roberto's. Here's my suggestions: 1) Each order an appetizer and a secondi, either pasta or anything else that sounds good to you. Don't blame me if you don't like what you ordered if it is not something I recommended above. 2) Order one app to share (or two), one pasta to split, and one secondi, but be sure to choose a secondi that is sharable, like the osso buco or whole fish. You might have room for dessert that way.

We tend to order one app, one pasta to share and two entrees, but that is because Jason usually doesn't want to share what I want to order, so I usually end up with lunch the next day. No problem with that.

Oh, and try not to go as more than a party of 4 and go early, much easier to get a table that way.

[TongoRad]

... 2) Order one app to share (or two), one pasta to split,..

←

Do you know if they even offer half orders of pasta, or do you have to share with somebody?

[gaf]

I have, of course, been following the thread with great (and personal) interest.

First, I was told (at lunch) that they did not serve half orders of pasta (as, for instance, A Voce does). But they do wrap things up.

A central issue on the thread is what do we expect from a chef. We seem to have a consensus that the Secondi are not as good as the Pasta and Risotto at Roberto's, and this was clearly my experience. (We can debate how "not as good" they are). After all, we are not talking about particular dishes, but about classes of dishes, and we are suggesting not just that Roberto's had an off-lunch, but that this experience is in some measure characteristic.

So the question for the Chef (and not just him, but many chefs where diners share a consensus that one part of the menu is better than the other), is a) does s/he not know? b) does s/he not care?, or c) can s/he not do any better?

I hope (and again I'm not talking about any particular restaurant) that B is not the case. The role of the critic is to insure that A does not apply. And then we are left with C, the reality of differential skills and talents, which is always and forever the lot of the artist who is all-too-human.

[oakapple]

We entered the latest debate because of Jason's inelegant admonishment, "You ordered wrong. Period." I mean, it's not as if he went to Peter Luger and ordered the salmon. If a whole page of the menu (the secondi) is sub-par, it seems to me that's the restaurant's problem, not the diner's.

[Jason Perlow]

It's not sub-par, Marc. Its just that this not what they excel at. Restaurants do certain things better than they do at other things. That doesn't necessarily make the secondi bad -- far from it. I just feel their appetizers and pasta are their strongest point. That's the nature of restaurants. There is no perfect restaurant.

I'm also having a problem figuring out what exactly was wrong with the preparation of gaf's dish in his photos.

Edited May 23, 2006 by Jason Perlow (log)

[gaf]

I'm also having a problem figuring out what exactly was wrong with the preparation of gaf's dish in his phots.

←

Look at the liquid the veal is sitting in; that is not sauce but tomato water. And while the presentation might be acceptable for a red gravy Italian, the dish, photographed as the plate arrived, is not the presentation that you would expect from a really exceptional restaurant.

But to reiterate, we enjoyed our appetizer very much, an the pasta was cooked nicely al dente.

[slkinsey]

. . . the presentation might be acceptable for a red gravy Italian . . .

I had the impression that that's what this place is. Is it not? Granted, I haven't been there myself, but the impression I get from pictures and comments is that it's "updated red sauce Italian-American."

FWIW, while I suppose it is possible to get an oustanding experience in a fundamentally flawed restaurant by only sticking to one area of the menu, that still makes it a flawed restaurant. Staying entirely or mostly away from non-pasta dishes is not quite the same thing as not ordering the pad thai at Sripraphai or making sure you stick with Sichuan dishes at Grand Sichuan, where certain dishes that are not the restaurants' forte have been retained on the menu to satisfy certain expectations and exconomic realities. I should add, while I am at it, that I absolutely do not subscribe to the premise that the non-pasta dishes at Babbo are in any way inferior to the pasta dishes. They may be less familiar to those who are not experienced in the Italian way with protein and have more Italian-American influenced expectations about dinner at Babbo, but I think many of the secondi at Babbo are excellent and the fennel-dusted sweetbread in particular is one of the best preparations of its kind in the City. Regardless, even if someone prefers Batali's pasta dishes over his protein dishes, I don't think one would observe what, based on gaf's pictures and descriptions describe, seems to be a fairly dramatic drop-off between primi and secondi.

[Fat Guy]

. . . the presentation might be acceptable for a red gravy Italian . . .

I had the impression that that's what this place is. Is it not? Granted, I haven't been there myself, but the impression I get from pictures and comments is that it's "updated red sauce Italian-American."

←

It's less "red sauce" and more "updated" than the other Arthur Avenue restaurants. The veal dish GAF shows, which looks positively awful and incompetent in its pool of water with soggy veal breading and what seems to be incompletely melted commercial sliced cheese, is one of the very few red sauce-ish dishes on the menu, and it's not exactly in a traditional Italian-American gravy.

I also don't think the generalizations, stated throughout this topic, about the entrees are correct. My take on it is that there are two weaknesses in the Roberto's menu, and I say this based only on a few visits several years ago at the old location but I think I decoded it back then and I haven't heard anything new: the veal cutlet and chicken cutlet dishes are poor. I do think there's something of an analogy between these dishes and the token Chinese-American dishes on the Grand Sichuan menu: they're offered to meet customer expectations, and also I think the kitchen may have a slightly lax attitude towards those who order the generic selections. I'm not defending the practice, just reporting it.

The other secondi, at least the ones I've had, are strong: the veal chop, half-rabbit (too much rosemary, but that's just my taste), pork chop, baccala and osso bucco.

I also agree that the pastas are the core of the menu. The pasta is made in-house and the fusilli in cartoccio (fusilli with clams, mussels, shrimp and fresh tomato cooked in foil on the grill) is terrific, though the presentation in foil is kind of lame.

I'd say Roberto's is inconsistent but not nearly as bad as GAF's report indicates. I'm also sure, unless the restaurant has taken a really bad dive, that GAF stumbled on a bad day at the restaurant -- I think he properly intuits that the lunch crew is not supervised by Roberto and is not well-trained enough to be left unsupervised. I imagine this explains the soft-shell crab debacle as well.

The chef at Roberto's, by the way, is Roberto Paciullo. He's from Salerno, though it's not clear to me that he's serving cuisine particular to Salerno.

[Jason Perlow]

pool of water with soggy veal breading

Maybe its my eyes acting up on me, but the scallopine looks unbreaded and it looks like a light "pink" sauce to me.

[Sneakeater]

. . . the presentation might be acceptable for a red gravy Italian . . .

I had the impression that that's what this place is. Is it not? Granted, I haven't been there myself, but the impression I get from pictures and comments is that it's "updated red sauce Italian-American."

←

It's less "red sauce" and more "updated" than the other Arthur Avenue restaurants. The veal dish GAF shows, which looks positively awful and incompetent in its pool of water with soggy veal breading and what seems to be incompletely melted commercial sliced cheese, is one of the very few red sauce-ish dishes on the menu, and it's not exactly in a traditional Italian-American gravy.

I also don't think the generalizations, stated throughout this topic, about the entrees are correct. My take on it is that there are two weaknesses in the Roberto's menu, and I say this based only on a few visits several years ago at the old location but I think I decoded it back then and I haven't heard anything new: the veal cutlet and chicken cutlet dishes are poor. I do think there's something of an analogy between these dishes and the token Chinese-American dishes on the Grand Sichuan menu: they're offered to meet customer expectations, and also I think the kitchen may have a slightly lax attitude towards those who order the generic selections. I'm not defending the practice, just reporting it.

The other secondi, at least the ones I've had, are strong: the veal chop, half-rabbit (too much rosemary, but that's just my taste), pork chop, baccala and osso bucco.

I also agree that the pastas are the core of the menu. The pasta is made in-house and the fusilli in cartoccio (fusilli with clams, mussels, shrimp and fresh tomato cooked in foil on the grill) is terrific, though the presentation in foil is kind of lame.

I'd say Roberto's is inconsistent but not nearly as bad as GAF's report indicates. I'm also sure, unless the restaurant has taken a really bad dive, that GAF stumbled on a bad day at the restaurant -- I think he properly intuits that the lunch crew is not supervised by Roberto and is not well-trained enough to be left unsupervised. I imagine this explains the soft-shell crab debacle as well.

The chef at Roberto's, by the way, is Roberto Paciullo. He's from Salerno, though it's not clear to me that he's serving cuisine particular to Salerno.

←

Trying not to sound too syncophantic, but:

What a great post. What a great analysis.

Thanks.

[Rachel Perlow]

I do think there's something of an analogy between these dishes and the token Chinese-American dishes on the Grand Sichuan menu: they're offered to meet customer expectations, and also I think the kitchen may have a slightly lax attitude towards those who order the generic selections. I'm not defending the practice, just reporting it.

That's it, exactly. Thanks for finding the words I couldn't.

I also agree that the pastas are the core of the menu. The pasta is made in-house and the fusilli in cartoccio (fusilli with clams, mussels, shrimp and fresh tomato cooked in foil on the grill) is terrific, though the presentation in foil is kind of lame.

←

This is the dish I think gets (the seafood) overcooked. I prefer the "specials" version. I like the pouch presentation, it is lovely getting that first steamy whiff of the dish.

[Jason Perlow]

I'm not of the opinion that the seafood cartoccio gets overcooked, but I do prefer the tomato/mozzarella version.

[pups224]

Went to Roberto's last night, five of us. To contininue this contentious thread.... We had eggplant caponata with grilled portobllos, grilled octopus with canelli beans and an eggplant and zucchini parm dish for apps. They were all excellent. Lovely looking plates with lots of flavor.

The main consisted of radiotore in cartocce with fresh porcini and tomatoes, outstanding. The sauce was so deep. The porchini odor just wafted over our table. Two of us had the special, mixed grill, which was very good. Quail, (dry), homemade sausages and a pork chop with so-so broccoli rabe. I was longing for some sort of demi-glace.Two others had veal caprese. Veal scalloppini with salad and melted chese on top. Niether of them thought it was very good. I thought it was just okay.

The red wine selection was excellent. The service efficient and hurried.

It was packed at 5 pm and had to wait an hour. The hostess was not polite at all. I would go back on a weekday, the SO won't.

Best part was that I got two whole veal shanks at $5.99/lb at the butcher and will make Stinco di Vitello today.

[Lutece]

Went to Roberto's last night, five of us. To contininue this contentious thread.... We had eggplant caponata with grilled portobllos, grilled octopus with canelli beans and an eggplant and zucchini parm dish for apps. They were all excellent. Lovely looking plates with lots of flavor.

The main consisted of radiotore in cartocce with fresh porcini and tomatoes, outstanding. The sauce was so deep. The porchini odor just wafted over our table. Two of us had the special, mixed grill, which was very good. Quail, (dry),  homemade sausages and a pork chop with so-so broccoli rabe. I was longing for some sort of demi-glace.Two others had veal caprese. Veal scalloppini with salad and melted chese on top. Niether of them thought it was very good. I thought it was just okay.

The red wine selection was excellent. The service efficient and hurried.

It was packed at 5 pm and had to wait an hour. The hostess was not polite at all. I would go back on a weekday, the SO won't.

Best part was that I got two whole veal shanks at $5.99/lb at the butcher and will make Stinco di Vitello today.

←

I came upon this thread re Roberto's while looking for a recommendation for a place on arthur ave. Had a fine lunch at Rigoletto's today and would go back because the food is good and they have a parking lot.

Went to Roberto's only for lunch last year and didn't like it.

I agree that if a restaurant is great, you should be happy with anything you order.

If I remember correctly we were disappointed in most everything we had.

You'd think if you're willing to make the trip to the Bronx, you would be able to find extraordinary food or you might as well just stay at your neighborhood italian place. I know the food they sell in the market is extraordinary so which restaurant has food that is really 'out of this world?" is what I want to know.

Maybe I'm just too picky, but I am not a lover of Batali's restaurants either.

Even the salad at Robertos was bad.

[oakapple]

I understand they don't take reservations. To get a table without waiting a ridiculous amount of time, what time would you have to show up on a Saturday night?