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I need a 1945 Vintage Port


SWISS_CHEF
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A customer of mine needs a 1945 Vintage port. Anyone have any reliable sources?

Thanks in advance, Ed

Any number of British auction Houses and wine merchants will have regular auctions. Other than that, I hope some of our transAtlantic cohorts will pipe up...

Jancis Robinson seems to think highly of

http://www.wine-searcher.com/

as a tool for the tracking down of wine. I have never searched out anything nearly that old, but you might try a couple of searches.

Actually, I did just try it (just put in "1945" for Vintage and "Europe" for Merchant Location), and a number of Port results came up, from Borges through what appears to be a Taylor's, from Peter Wylie.

I can't vouch for the reliability of any of the purveyours, though.

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I can't vouch for the reliability of any of the purveyours, though.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. The wine is for a birthday so I can't wait around for an auction and I have to admit I never buy from auction because I think it is largely a dumping ground for poorly stored wines. This wine is going to cost between 500 and 1000 bucks so I want to really try hard to find one that has been cellared properly. I think I will start working the English dealers and see what I can come up with. Selling this kind of stuff makes me kind of nervous though, if the bottle is bad, I'm going to look bad to one of my best customers. :unsure:

Edited by SWISS_CHEF (log)
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I have recently tried two bottles of the Quinta de Estanho vintage 1945. This is an out of this world port which reflects a very good vintage.

As far as storage - the best thing is a direct shipment from Portugal through an agent.

Your customer should know about sedaments and decanting.

Some of the wineries offer personalized labels but such a task might take a month to prepare.

Good luck,

Andre Suidan

I was taught to finish what I order.

Life taught me to order what I enjoy.

The art of living taught me to take my time and enjoy.

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The best accessible authority I know on port is a guy named Roy Hersh who is a regular on the Squires board. He is US-based, so may not be able to help with merchants, but will be able to recommend what houses were best in 1945 vintage (and which wines seem to have had least bottle variation and held up best).

I can tell you that Fine and Rare Wines in the UK has a great selection, but I've never bought from them, so I can't vouch for reliability.

Good luck,

Jim

Jim Jones

London, England

Never teach a pig to sing. It only wastes your time and frustrates the pig.

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I can't vouch for the reliability of any of the purveyours, though.

Thanks to everyone for you thoughts. The wine is for a birthday so I can't wait around for an auction and I have to admit I never buy from auction because I think it is largely a dumping ground for poorly stored wines. This wine is going to cost between 500 and 1000 bucks so I want to really try hard to find one that has been cellared properly. I think I will start working the English dealers and see what I can come up with. Selling this kind of stuff makes me kind of nervous though, if the bottle is bad I'm going to look bad to one of my best customers. :unsure:

Well, a good wine merchant will be able to tell you what is (and isn't) known of the bottle's cellaring history. That will tell you something about your odds. Port is not nearly as fragile as non-fortified wines, so you've got that working for you in this case.

As to the customer... as a customer myself, if I've been kept apprised of what you've been trying, and what's involved, and I understand the risks, it's a lot less likely I would blame you for the outcome. But obviously you are the only judge as to what's appropriate.

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Well, a good wine merchant will be able to tell you what is (and isn't) known of the bottle's cellaring history.

Well, that's what I thought.... but, I have spent most of the day on the phone with half a dozen different merchants and ten times out of ten I get a "twenty-something" that "knows it all" and is used to selling much more expensive wine than my pathetic $600 bottle and with far fewer questions asked, thank you very much!

You know what? ...this reminds me of why I don't drink expensive wines any more. It is all a giant muscle flexing competition for sad wankers that don't have the self confidence to seek out and find really great $20 wine and share the discovery with their friends.

Sorry, I'm just a bit down on this whole process. I wish I didn't have to do this.

Edited by SWISS_CHEF (log)
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Well, a good wine merchant will be able to tell you what is (and isn't) known of the bottle's cellaring history.

You know what? ...this reminds me of why I don't drink expensive wines any more. It is all a giant muscle flexing competition for sad wankers that don't have the self confidence to seek out and find really great $20 wine and share the discovery with their friends.

:laugh:

Andre Suidan

I was taught to finish what I order.

Life taught me to order what I enjoy.

The art of living taught me to take my time and enjoy.

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I use WineAlert to check retail prices in the U.S. and U.K. Here are a few that I found (can't vouch for shipping costs). These are the cheapest prices in the U.S. for these (if you want to know the merchants for any, let me know.)

Croft - £359 - Antique Wine Co. in Norwich

Dow - $650

Graham - $937.50

Quinta do Noval - $1,019.83

Sandeman - $640

Taylor - £480.00 - Fine & Rare Wines, Ltd., London, £516.00 - Antique Wine Co in Norwich

Also, I remember when I visited Graham and Taylor in Villa Nova de Gaia (sp?) they had a number of older vintages available. Not sure if a 1945 was included, but you might want to check. At least storage should be less of an issue, wouldn't it?

Edited by mikeycook (log)

"If the divine creator has taken pains to give us delicious and exquisite things to eat, the least we can do is prepare them well and serve them with ceremony."

~ Fernand Point

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Let's see if I can get Luis Gutiérrez, an expert in Portuguese wines (including Porto), to take a look at this thread.

In the meantime, why don't you get in touch directly with the producers? In that way, you have more certainty about cellar issues.

PedroEspinosa (aka pedro)

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Thanks, Pedro, Jackal and Mikey for your help.

I told my client via e-mail how tough this is going to be....She was hoping to keep it around 500 bucks but would go to a thousand if I thought it was worth it (thus the pressure)......Frankly, I think all these prices are crazy! I had a case of '63 Sandeman that I sold 10 years ago and as hard as I tried I could only get $50 a bottle! I don't even want to see what they are asking for '63 Sandeman today! Anyway, I have asked if she would consider a Cognac or Armagnac because it would'nt be hard to find and it would make my job a bit easier.

Pedro, I hope Mr. Gutiérrez has time to read all this. I would be more than happy to buy the wine directly from a Portuguese cellar. 19 years ago I toured the wine makers of Oporto and really enjoyed it there but I didn't make any contacts.

Thank you all for your help, I wish I could pour each of you a few glasses from my cellar!! :smile:

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Thanks, Pedro, Jackal and Mikey for your help.

I told my client via e-mail how tough this is going to be....She was hoping to keep it around 500 bucks but would go to a thousand if I thought it was worth it (thus the pressure)......Frankly, I think all these prices are crazy! I had a case of '63 Sandeman that I sold 10 years ago and as hard as I tried I could only get $50 a bottle! I don't even want to see what they are asking for '63 Sandeman today! Anyway, I have asked if she would consider a Cognac or Armagnac because it would'nt be hard to find and it would make my job a bit easier.

Pedro, I hope Mr. Gutiérrez has time to read all this. I would be more than happy to buy the wine directly from a Portuguese cellar. 19 years ago I toured the wine makers of Oporto and really enjoyed it there but I didn't make any contacts.

Thank you all for your help, I wish I could pour each of you a few glasses from my cellar!!  :smile:

Hello Ed,

I've just received a mail from Pedro about this. I've emailed a few producers in Portugal about it, let's see what they say. However 1945 is one of the myhtical vintages, and therefore VERY expensive! Does it have to be a Vintage? There's also Colheita, which is normally cheaper than Vintage.

Will get back to you when I have some news/ideas. Cheers,

Luis

PS: I sometimes travel to Lausanne. Where are you exactly?

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Thanks, Pedro, Jackal and Mikey for your help.

I told my client via e-mail how tough this is going to be....She was hoping to keep it around 500 bucks but would go to a thousand if I thought it was worth it (thus the pressure)......Frankly, I think all these prices are crazy! I had a case of '63 Sandeman that I sold 10 years ago and as hard as I tried I could only get $50 a bottle! I don't even want to see what they are asking for '63 Sandeman today! Anyway, I have asked if she would consider a Cognac or Armagnac because it would'nt be hard to find and it would make my job a bit easier.

Pedro, I hope Mr. Gutiérrez has time to read all this. I would be more than happy to buy the wine directly from a Portuguese cellar. 19 years ago I toured the wine makers of Oporto and really enjoyed it there but I didn't make any contacts.

Thank you all for your help, I wish I could pour each of you a few glasses from my cellar!!  :smile:

Hello Ed,

I've just received a mail from Pedro about this. I've emailed a few producers in Portugal about it, let's see what they say. However 1945 is one of the myhtical vintages, and therefore VERY expensive! Does it have to be a Vintage? There's also Colheita, which is normally cheaper than Vintage.

Will get back to you when I have some news/ideas. Cheers,

Luis

PS: I sometimes travel to Lausanne. Where are you exactly?

Hi Luis!

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP! I think it should be vintage, but maybe not a Niepoort this time. :rolleyes: We live about 30 minutes west of Zürich. That's about 1 hour and 45 minutes north of Lausanne. You are certainly MORE than welcome to come here for a visit. We have good wine friends, drinkable wines and a nice spare bedroom! :smile:

Kind regards, Ed

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Hi Luis!

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP! I think it should be vintage, but maybe not a Niepoort this time. :rolleyes:  We live about 30 minutes west of Zürich. That's about 1 hour and 45 minutes north of Lausanne. You are certainly MORE than welcome to come here for a visit. We have good wine friends, drinkable wines and a nice spare bedroom! :smile:

Kind regards, Ed

Why not a Niepoort? If you've had enough Niepoort 45s I offer to buy any bottles you don't want... :wink: Dirk is one of the guys I emailed...

OK, so close to Zurich... Do you know the guys from Global Wine? Maybe they could help you...

Cheers,

Luis

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Why not a Niepoort? If you've had enough Niepoort 45s I offer to buy any bottles you don't want... :wink: Dirk is one of the guys I emailed...

OK, so close to Zurich... Do you know the guys from Global Wine? Maybe they could help you...

Cheers,

Luis

Hi Luis,

Sadly, Niepoort is a little out of my customer's budget. :sad:

I assume you mean Globus wines. Both Globus and Mövenpick are good wine stores but both are retail department store chains that will offer no discount to a wine merchant such as myself and they carry very few older vintages.

I have been working with http://www.badaracco.ch and http://www.cavebb.ch/ but have turned up nothing so far. In the case of Badaracco the ports they have listed don't exist and cavebb only has a crusted port from 1945 and I have no idea exactly what a crusted port is except that it is not like a vintage port, so it seems to me that it shouldn't be in the same price range.

Shipping from England is very expensive so I have been avoiding that. I don't mind paying a fair price for the wine but I hate to pay 50 pounds to to have the thing shipped. Complicated no?

Wine Greetings, Ed

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Sadly, Niepoort is a little out of my customer's budget.  :sad:

I assume you mean Globus wines. Both Globus and Mövenpick are good wine stores but both are retail department store chains that will offer no discount to a wine merchant such as myself and they carry very few older vintages.

I have been working with http://www.badaracco.ch and http://www.cavebb.ch/ but have turned up nothing so far. In the case of Badaracco the ports they have listed don't exist and cavebb only has a crusted port from 1945 and I have no idea exactly what a crusted port is except that it is not like a vintage port, so it seems to me that it shouldn't be in the same price range.

Shipping from England is very expensive so I have been avoiding that. I don't mind paying a fair price for the wine but I hate to pay 50 pounds to to have the thing shipped. Complicated no?

Wine Greetings, Ed

Not much luck with Portugal either. They have told me you could check with a shop in Porto, called Tio Pepe. Their site is here

The guys from Zurich I was telling you about are Global Wine.

Cheers,

Luis

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Sadly, Niepoort is a little out of my customer's budget.  :sad:

I assume you mean Globus wines. Both Globus and Mövenpick are good wine stores but both are retail department store chains that will offer no discount to a wine merchant such as myself and they carry very few older vintages.

I have been working with http://www.badaracco.ch and http://www.cavebb.ch/ but have turned up nothing so far. In the case of Badaracco the ports they have listed don't exist and cavebb only has a crusted port from 1945 and I have no idea exactly what a crusted port is except that it is not like a vintage port, so it seems to me that it shouldn't be in the same price range.

Shipping from England is very expensive so I have been avoiding that. I don't mind paying a fair price for the wine but I hate to pay 50 pounds to to have the thing shipped. Complicated no?

Wine Greetings, Ed

Not much luck with Portugal either. They have told me you could check with a shop in Porto, called Tio Pepe. Their site is here

The guys from Zurich I was telling you about are Global Wine.

Cheers,

Luis

Hi Luis,

Thanks for all your help! I spoke to the customer and she said a cognac or armagnac will work too so I'm going to go with on of the '45 armagnac's available here in Switzerland. The better ports from '45 are just too expensive.

Regards, Ed

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