Food Histories of the Non-Toysan People

[Tepee]

OK, I'm getting a bit jealous about the amazing sense of community/identity the Toysan guys have.

The rest of us, Overseas Chinese, where are you now, and where are you from?

Starting from ngo....

I'm a 2nd generation chinese;

My mom was born in Singapore, her mom's from Hong Kong. Cantonese.

My dad was born in Malaysia, his family's from China. Hakka.

Let's get this thread rolling (preferably in the direction of Food, or we'll get axed).

Edited March 30, 2005 by Tepee (log)

[origamicrane]

ok i'm game

I am a BBC1 ( British born chinese 1st generation)

Family is from HK and they moved to the UK ain 1973.

And like most chinese in the UK we are part of the catering Trade

[Laksa]

My father's parents came from Kutian, close to Fuzhou and I think my mother's parents were city folk from Fuzhou itself. After migrating from China to Malaysia, they made their way to Johor and Singapore, before eventually settling in Sibu. A large number of migrant Foochows ended up in Sibu or other nearby towns.

I keep hearing stories of my grandparents being in the food business, first serving Ding Bian Hu from a stall, then operating a Foochow pastry/cookie shop, but none of their children ever took up the trade. It was hard work making cookies and pastry, and nobody wanted to do it. All the knowledge in the family has been lost, but none of the relatives I've spoken with seem to show any hint of regret.

[Shalmanese]

Born in China, moved to Australia when I was 5.

Family is from Manchuria.

[Yuki]

I have already introduced my family in the Toysan thread but I will do it again.

My maternal grandparent came from Xinhui and my paternal grandparent came from Nanha. My parent and I were born in Hong Kong and we do not have much knowledge about our home villages. I came over to Canada in 1997 and the only close relatives I have are my maternal grandmother and uncle's family. Many members in my family are educated in Canada and returned back to Hong Kong after they finished schooling.

All my relatives are spreaded across the world but whenever it comes to big event (Example: grandma's 70th b-day), we always go back to Hong Kong. Most of the family members also make a trip back to Hong Kong every year or two.

[hzrt8w]

The rest of us, Overseas Chinese, where are you now, and where are you from?

Starting from ngo....

I'm a 2nd generation chinese.....

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Boy. It seems awefully lonely to be non-Toisaynese on eGullet!

I am a non-Toisanese Chinese too, but I married to one. So I still have one foot in the Toisanese thread in case things don't go too well!

I'm a many many generation Chinese... just a second generation Hong Konger, and a first generation Chinese immigrant to the USA. Mother was born in Hong Kong. Father was born near Guangzhou and took a train to Hong Kong at the age of 13 and never looked back. That's before WWII. Many of the mainlanders went to Hong Kong in the 50's because of communists and that Hong Kong had a loose border back then. Growing up, many of my schoolmates have non-Guangzhou dialects (such as Shanghai, Chowzhou, Hakka, Mandarin, etc..) I have not heard of the Toisanese dialect until I came to the US for college back in late 70's. I have been living in California since for over 20 some years.

hzrt... hzrt... talk about food! Talk about food!!!

Oh, yeah... *cough* *cough*

Many of the toisanese dishes posted in this forum... I found them almost identical to the daily family meals we eat in Hong Kong. (such as lap cheung, salted fish, steamed ground pork, etc..) I am just wondering if these are just all in general Cantonese, or more precisely Guangzhou Cantonese dishes. Hong Kong has been under the influence of so many different food cultures: some from overseas such as British, French, Malasian, Indian, Japanese, Korean and so on, while many from other regions of China. While I was a teenager, when I bit into something I automatically presumed that's Cantonese food!

Edited April 3, 2005 by hzrt8w (log)

[LT Wong]

I'm 2nd generation Singaporean.

My paternal grandparents came from Shun Tak in China. My mother's Hokkien Peranakan (Malacca, I believe).

My food experiences growing up were Cantonese on my father's side, and really mixed (Teochew, Hokkien, Malay, Cantonese) on my mother's end. And with my mom's siblings living overseas in Canada and England, there was also "western food" that was different from the Hainanese form found in Singapore.

My mom enjoyed baking, and I grew up eating lots of cakes and biscuits.

Studied and lived for a while in the US, and had lots of friends from many different countries who shared a lot of food with me.

Good thing I love to eat.

[jo-mel]

I've had Chinese blood in me --- but I ate it. (pig blood and duck blood pudding)

Can I please qualify?

Welllll --- at least I kept it in the food line!

[Tepee]

Maybe we should name the forum, 'Toy Story'! Meantime, we'll grab Jo-Mel before the others get her.

Food. Since my mom's Cantonese, we grew up drinking a lot of soup. There seems to be a soup for everything, whether it's to clear heat, to aid digestion, to nourish the blood, to warm the body, to make you smarter (with pig brains, you think?); there's even one purported to help you grow inches (the only danger is you don't get to choose vertical or horizontal inches). My paternal grandfather was a great cook and also a village head. I don't know if it was because I was a small child then, but his wok appeared to me to be humongous, at least 3 feet across. Apparently, there were a lot of uninvited but nevertheless welcomed guests at most of their dinners. My mom learnt to cook very awesome Hakka stuffed taufus and bitter gourd, and char yoke from him.

I'm a many many generation Chinese...

LOL, so am I. We have an ancient jook bo (book of generations) in our possession. I remember seeing it as a child but it is now hoarded by a relative. It shows our Choo roots for quite a few generations; I don't remember exactly how many but I remember being piqued by the fact that daughters are 'terminated' after their name appears; there are no follow-throughs in their family line. I come from a very MCP family.

Edited April 4, 2005 by Tepee (log)

[Shiewie]

I'm a mixture of non-Toysan and Toysan Chinese.

My dad is Hainanese and was born in Wenchang county on Hainan Island and came over to Malaysia as a child in the 1930s to join my grandfather who had to run away from Shanghai for being involved in the student revolution.

(TP, talking about MCP families, think my dad's side is even worse than yours - the jook bo goes back 29 generations and there's not a single female listed in it - females just don't count in MCP Chinese families).

My mum is a mix of Sun Ning (my great-grandfather was a Wong from Ngan Kiang Chun - village of the bespectacled - he was on his way to Kam San (Gold Mountain i.e. California) but decided to stay in Malaysia when the ship docked here), Penang Peranakan Hokkien and some Indonesian Batak it seems (they're not sure as it's been many generations - my grandmother was either the either the 6th or 7th generation in Malaysia).

None of my ancestors were in the food trade but my maternal gran was a very good Nyonya cook - she only learnt to cook after marrying though as she had grown up not knowing even how to boil water or even wash a hankie. My mum didn't inherit any cooking inclination from my gran though - she'd suggest alternative ways of doing things and constantly ended up being shoo'ed out of the kitchen .

Edited April 4, 2005 by Shiewie (log)

[Makan King]

Just to add to the list of non-toysan people on egullet...

I am a (sort of) third generation Singapore-born Chinese. My parents were both born in Singapore, and three of my grandparents were also born in Singapore. My paternal grandfather was born in Swatow in China. I believe that there is some Peranakan blood in the family as well, since my dad's family has some awesome Peranakan dishes in their repetoire and my great-grandmother wore the kebaya on a daily basis.

I am teochew (chaozhou) on my dad's side and cantonese on my mom's side. I speak some teochew and almost no cantonese.

I have now come a full circle in that I am now working in Beijing. A great disappointment, food-wise (just to keep it on track!) is the lack of good teochew cusine in this capital city. I miss greatly all my favorite teochew dishes from Singapore - hay cho (rolls made of crabmeat, prawns, minced pork and minced water chestnuts that are wrapped in pig's caul, steamed and then deep fried), steamed promfret, braised goose and tofu, sio be (teochew version of siumai, but less porky and eaten with a vingerary sauce), cold steamed crab, and the ultimate dessert - oh nee (mashed taro with mashed pumpkin and lotus seeds; this is extremely rich and utterly delicious. Also utterly bad for the arteries - it has to be made with lard for the ultra-smooth texture).

[Tepee]

and the ultimate dessert - oh nee (mashed taro with mashed pumpkin and lotus seeds; this is extremely rich and utterly delicious.  Also utterly bad for the arteries - it has to be made with lard for the ultra-smooth texture).

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Ooooo....oh nee! My favorite Teochew dessert. I only just learnt how to make it, after being married to a Teo'Jew' for 14 years. I love the taste of the shallots fried in lard, syrupped, then covering the pumpkin and taro. Yum.

[Yuki]

and the ultimate dessert - oh nee (mashed taro with mashed pumpkin and lotus seeds; this is extremely rich and utterly delicious.  Also utterly bad for the arteries - it has to be made with lard for the ultra-smooth texture).

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Ooooo....oh nee! My favorite Teochew dessert. I only just learnt how to make it, after being married to a Teo'Jew' for 14 years. I love the taste of the shallots fried in lard, syrupped, then covering the pumpkin and taro. Yum.

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I had the oh nee last year.... it was indeed quite rich. Also I had the taro chunk which seems to be coated with a layer of almost crunch sugar. We also ordered steamed clear crystal bao with green beans and red beans, and a dessert soup with green beans and those chewy substances(I don't know what they are called, but they come in pink and white). I think we ordered too many dessert for 7 people........

[wrek92]

Well, let's see...

My Dad was born in Xiamen, in Fujian. My mom was born and grew up in Guangdong but my great grandfather was a magistrate in the Ching dynasty originally from Fujian who was assigned to Guangdong. So, I guess both my parents roots extend back to Fujian. But, since my Mom and Dad met in college in Hong Kong our family basically follows Cantonese culture if there is such a thing.

Me? I was born in the Caribbean of all places. After my parents wed, my dad's company shipped him out to Trinidad and Tobago of all places . But the odd thing is, there are Chinese folk in the Carribean too. The majority of them are of Hakka extraction. I guess it really is true that the Chinese are the "Jews" of the East in terms of where we have ended up.

I now live in Sunny West Central Florida in Tampa, home of the Stanley Cup Champion Tampa Bay Lightning. Go Bolts!!!! I have called this area home since middle school except for a stint in Atlanta where I went to college and got my engineering degree. The weather is great but the food scene can be lacking at times. As far as genuine Cantonese/Chinese cuisine I can count on one hand the number of restaurants that offer the real deal.

My parents are retired in Toronto now and I have a brother up there too so I whenever I am visiting I am getting my Cantonese food fix big time.

[Tepee]

...and a dessert soup with green beans and those chewy substances(I don't know what they are called, but they come in pink and white). I think we ordered too many dessert for 7 people........

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I think that must be tapioca starch cubes. I can appreciate how you ordered too many dessert. When we go out for a meal at our favorite restaurant which offers a wide range of tong sui (sweet soup), we normally start with one bowl per person, but end up with at least 2 bowls each! And that is after dinner!

[Makan King]

...and a dessert soup with green beans and those chewy substances(I don't know what they are called, but they come in pink and white). I think we ordered too many dessert for 7 people........

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I think that must be tapioca starch cubes. I can appreciate how you ordered too many dessert. When we go out for a meal at our favorite restaurant which offers a wide range of tong sui (sweet soup), we normally start with one bowl per person, but end up with at least 2 bowls each! And that is after dinner!

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Ah...tong sui! There is a Hong Kong style restaurant in Beijing that has a large tong sui menu. And it offers a relatively inexpensive ala carte tong sui dessert buffet between 2pm and 5pm every day (except Sunday). It's a great way to spend a lazy Saturday afternoon - flitting from walnut cream to double-boiled milk to steamed white fungus to papaya to bailey's coffee with tapioca balls!

[Laksa]

and the ultimate dessert - oh nee (mashed taro with mashed pumpkin and lotus seeds; this is extremely rich and utterly delicious.  Also utterly bad for the arteries - it has to be made with lard for the ultra-smooth texture).

←

Ooooo....oh nee! My favorite Teochew dessert. I only just learnt how to make it, after being married to a Teo'Jew' for 14 years. I love the taste of the shallots fried in lard, syrupped, then covering the pumpkin and taro. Yum.

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When did the Teochew start to claim oh nee as their own? The Foochows on egullet demand to know!

I had this heavenly dessert when I was back home. I don't think the Foochow version has pumpkin.

But why anyone would think of putting raisins on top is beyond me. Has anyone here tried oh nee battered and deep-fried?

[Yuki]

Ah...tong sui!  There is a Hong Kong style restaurant in Beijing that has a large tong sui menu.  And it offers a relatively inexpensive ala carte tong sui dessert buffet between 2pm and 5pm every day (except Sunday).  It's a great way to spend a lazy Saturday afternoon - flitting from walnut cream to double-boiled milk to steamed white fungus to papaya to bailey's coffee with tapioca balls!

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I love the new Hong Kong style dessert house, they are great. You can get everything from durian pancake, cream brulee, cheesecake, mixed fruit with sweet soup to the traditional dessert. Just one more month then I will be back(I can't stop thinking about the summer, my friends think I am crazy ).

[Tepee]

When did the Teochew start to claim oh nee as their own?  The Foochows on egullet demand to know!

I had this heavenly dessert when I was back home.  I don't think the Foochow version has pumpkin. 

But why anyone would think of putting raisins on top is beyond me.  Has anyone here tried oh nee battered and deep-fried?

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Second question first: Why anyone would think of putting raisins...?

You tell me...if Foochowans are as strange as their language (and we have a fine example right here)......sure your dessert is not called 'oh raisins' or something?

First question second: When did the Teochew start to claim oh nee as their own? They had to rescue the poor dessert from too innovative western toppings...they changed it to the more politically correct gingko nuts. Having made such a brave move, I think they deserve the rights to oh nee, don't you?

Third question: Has anyone tried it battered or deep-fried?

Would love to, but can't decide whether I should stuff the gingko nuts (or raisins ) in.

Edited April 9, 2005 by Tepee (log)

[Tough Cookie]

I'm a first generation Canadian born Chinese. My parents are both from Hong Kong. My dad's family is from Jeet Quon (which I think is near Shanghai) and my mom's family is from Jong San (in Guangzhou province).

I grew up eating mainly Cantonese food, although I do prefer Shanghainese style cooking. Unfortunately, I'm not big on cooking so I tend to make really simple dishes (eg. tomatoes and beef, stir fried vegetables, ching yook beng) and eat out half the time. Our monthly food bill is expensive but my kids are now so well behaved in restaurants!

[hzrt8w]

and my mom's family is from Jong San (in Guangzhou province). 

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Chung Shan [Cantonese] is where the father of Modern China Dr. Sun Yat-sen was born! Famous place.

...eat out half the time.  Our monthly food bill is expensive but my kids are now so well behaved in restaurants!

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That's the benefit of living in a highly concentrated Chinese immigrant community like Vancouver. Best tasting Chinese food at reasonable prices. If you live in Sacramento, you may not want to eat out. What's the point of eating out if you can cook better than the chef in those restaurants?

[Laksa]

Second question first: Why anyone would think of putting raisins...?

You tell me...if Foochowans are as strange as their language (and we have a fine example right here)......sure your dessert is not called 'oh raisins' or something?

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Okay, I have a theory. I think the motivation behind it is the same one that gives us Chinese restaurants with names like New Paris Eating House Western touches give it added cachet, non?

[Makan King]

When did the Teochew start to claim oh nee as their own?  The Foochows on egullet demand to know!

I had this heavenly dessert when I was back home.  I don't think the Foochow version has pumpkin. 

But why anyone would think of putting raisins on top is beyond me.  Has anyone here tried oh nee battered and deep-fried?

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I have always thought of oh nee as a quintessentially Teochew dessert. I can only get it in Teochew restaurants in Singapore, and I think all Singaporeans regard oh nee as a Teochew dessert. Oops if it is also a Foochow delicacy!

Actually, I am not very familar with Foochow cuisine, simply because the Foochow population in Singapore is very small. I have tried meat-stuffed fishballs and chicken stewed in red wine lees (both yummy). Are there any other famous or typical Foochow dishes?

And I have no idea why raisins will be added to oh nee. I don't think the combination works! You must try it with the mashed pumpkin. Its gentle sweetness and slight heft matches the mashed taro very well, and the golden yellow of the pumpkin is very pretty against the dull grey.

[hzrt8w]

..... The main dialect groups in Singapore are the Hokkien (or Fujian), the Cantonese and the Teochews.  Then there are also the smaller dialect groupings of Hainanese, Hakkas and Fuzhou.

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Isn't Fujian the same as Fuzhou? They mean the same region in Mandarin. Fujian = two words [Fu Jian]. Zhou in Mandarin just means a province (or a state). Fu Zhou is the Fu Jian province.

[Tepee]

After some sleuthing, I found that Foochow is the port city of the province of Fukien. To me, it's quite mind-boggling how, although related as such, the dialect of Foochow is so different from Fukien. Apparently, it's one of the most difficult dialects to learn.

Yoohoooooo....Mr Foochow/Laksa....where are you?