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Food Histories of the Non-Toysan People


Tepee

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The capital of the province is Xiamen (aka Amoy). Fuzhou is in the northeastern part of the province. Both of those cities are ports.

Michael aka "Pan"

 

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After some sleuthing, I found that Foochow is the port city of the province of Fukien. To me, it's quite mind-boggling how, although related as such, the dialect of Foochow is so different from Fukien. Apparently, it's one of the most difficult dialects to learn.  :wacko:

Yoohoooooo....Mr Foochow/Laksa....where are you?

Thanks for the sleuthing, Tepee! I am also quite puzzled that the Foochow dialect is so different from Fujian. I know that there is a difference as I have a friend whose dialect is Foochow (but she only knows like three or four words!) and from whom I had the privilege of tasting chicken stewed with red wine lees.

By the way, the word in Mandarin for province is "shen" (third tone).

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After some sleuthing, I found that Foochow is the port city of the province of Fukien. To me, it's quite mind-boggling how, although related as such, the dialect of Foochow is so different from Fukien. Apparently, it's one of the most difficult dialects to learn.  :wacko:

Yoohoooooo....Mr Foochow/Laksa....where are you?

Thanks for the sleuthing, Tepee! I am also quite puzzled that the Foochow dialect is so different from Fujian. I know that there is a difference as I have a friend whose dialect is Foochow (but she only knows like three or four words!) and from whom I had the privilege of tasting chicken stewed with red wine lees.

The Foochow dialect is very easy to learn -- it only comprises three or four words! :biggrin: Teepee, sorry, I can't teach you the swear words because I don't know any.

Typing off the cuff, I had always believed that Fuzhou was the capital of Fujian province. That's what my mum (whose family was from Fuzhou), always told me. She doesn't often miss the opportunity to point out her family were city-folk, while my dad's were from the villages.

The Foochows in Sibu are great moonshiners -- they love to make red rice wine. Apparently the wine is much sought after by mothers in confinement. The red wine lees are a wonderfully flavored by-product, and feature in some quintessential foochow dishes like the chicken dish already mentioned.

I believe Foochows invented Fo Tiao Chiang or Buddha jumps over the wall (the dish is so tasty that even the ascetic Buddha reputedly jumped over a six-foot brick wall to eat it).

Food I ate when growing up was influenced by such a variety of styles that I find it difficult now to identify what dishes are typically foochow. Although one that springs to mind, har har, are foochow chung mian, or spring rolls. They are made with bean sprouts, firm tofu, chives, lard and ginger.

Another favorite that my mum always makes for Chinese New Year, a secret family recipe of sorts, is rice smoked duck (mi siu ark). A whole duck is put on a bed of raw rice in a wok over a medium flame. The rice that will eventually burn lends the duck a nice smokey flavor. After an hour or so, chop the duck into pieces and stir-fry.

Makan King, I will now try oh nee with pumpkin, but only because your royal highness has decreed that I must.

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  • 6 months later...

I am coming out!

No, I don't mean it that way. After all, I have a wife and a happy marriage! :raz:

I know, I know... I have a rather difficult-to-remember online moniker "hzrt8w". A few fellow eGulleters asked me if it stands for anything. It would be a great word puzzle, wouldn't it? Horse + Zebra Resemble Trojan Ate (8) Weeds.

Truth be told now: "hzrt8w" has absolutely no particular meanings. It happened to be a computer login name I was assigned at a company I used to work for long time ago. It was company policy that required us to remember this meaningless, computer-randomly-generated sequences (gotta have a number in addition to letters, right?) by heart. After using it for a few years, even though I had long departed that company I could not cleanse it out of my brain. Many millions of my neurons had already been imprinted with these 6 alphanumeric characters. Since it is rather unique, I just use it to sign up for accounts every where I go on the Internet. So far I have not seen been rejected!

So I went through the same routine when I registered on eGullet. Little did I know at the time, that this login name would also be used as my screen name. I would have chosen another one that's easier to remember otherwise, like "ChowMein" or something.

To make it easier for fellow eGulleters to address me, I am providing my name in my signature block. I still, however, would like to maintain at least partial anonymity. So let me just my initials and my street salutation "Ah Leung".

For those who are not familiar with the Cantonese language... the term "Ah" is not exactly a name. It is sort of a meaningless adjective serving the purpose of a place holder. When we say a person's name, it is as if a requirement that the name must have at least 2 characters. So how do we say a 2-character name if we only know that person's family name? We put a meaningless adjective "Ah" in front of it! Therefore, it is common to address a Mr. Wong as “Ah Wong” and a Mr. Lee as “Ah Lee” and so on. This is typically done to male names, although the same custom can also be applied to female names (e.g. Miss Wong as “Ah Wong”.) In Mandarin, the practice is pretty much the same – though they use the word xiao3 [Mandarin, meaning small or young] instead of “Ah”. “Xiao Liang” – my name in Mandarin.

Actually there is another reason: I would like to use my family name as a way to pay tribute to my late father, now, in the 6th anniversary of his passing. He taught me how to cook when I was ten and got me interested in this culinary art. First it was just for survival when I went through high school, then it was for necessity when I went through college in the USA, and later it was for enjoyment through the rest of my life.

My given names' initials (Chinese) are W.K.. Feel free to address me as WK or simply – preferable - "Ah Leung". :smile: Or, if you like, of course... continue on with "hzrt8w", "hzrt", or "hz".

To stay with the food subject... I have to say... my all time favorite Chinese food is: Gon Chow Ngau Ho [Cantonese] - Stir-fried rice noodles with beef and soy sauce, dry style. (Gosh... the English translation takes so many more words!)

BTW: I am getting close to my 1000 post! What’s my reward this time? Laksa? Another bowl of virtual laksa?

Edited by hzrt8w (log)
W.K. Leung ("Ah Leung") aka "hzrt8w"
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I would like to bring to this topic something that may have been overlooked regarding the evolution of Chinese Cuisine during the past 50 or so years.

After the 2nd World War Hong Kong was a relatively small city without a significant population. It wasn't until the immigration began from the Chinese mainland that the effects of the population growing at one of the fastest rates anywhere began to take effect.

There were immigrant populations arriving daily from almost everywhere in China, including the villages immediately bordering Hong Kong.

In less then 10 years the growth of population went from hundreds of thousands to over four million. It was amazing how well the British Government dealt with this situation.

When I began doing business in Hong Kong the population was about one million after moving there until I relocated it had grown to well over four million.

As happens in new areas many immigrants began opening Restaurants/Hawker Stands or residential eating clubs. Because there was no place for ghetto's to evolve the population of immigrants lived all over the colony.

What was very unusual to those new comer's was the available ingredients since they came from China where everything was generally in short supply. In many areas Rice, Oil and almost everything was rationed.

Since these new eating places needed to attract all ethnic Chinese customers due to the mixed populations they learned to do what every business man acquires. They managed to adapt the cuisine to become acceptable to their customers tastes.

As more people became affluent they being Chinese enjoyed trying new dishes and eventually there were lots of Shanghai, Hakka. Chiu Chow, Peking, Vegan and other regional Restaurants, but the Cantonese were still the most popular. The only other type of Restaurants that meet most customers criteria were those opened by immigrant seamen from Singapore and Malaysia that featured combinations of Chinese, Hainan, Malay and European Style Dishes.

It wasn't long until there were regional Chinese Restaurants opening that were more authentic. This growth was timed by the Fast Food, Chain Restaurants and representative Restaurants from all over the World.

It's still growing with no end in sight. There are authentic Asian Restaurants in most large cities in North America especially Vancouver, Toronto, Winnipeg and Montreal in Canada. Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, Boston, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Chicago and your City next.

I hope my attempt to explain this evolution isn't to ambitious but I felt it should be added to this thread.

Everyones comments and thoughts are welcomed.

Irwin :wub:

I don't say that I do. But don't let it get around that I don't.

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After the 2nd World War Hong Kong was a relatively small city without a significant population. It wasn't until the immigration began from the Chinese mainland that the effects of the population growing at one of the fastest rates anywhere began to take effect.

I do remember my father told me that there used to be no borders between Hong Kong and the neighborhood city Shenzhen. People who wished to come to Hong Kong (like he did) just took a train there, or walked over. The fences along the Shenzhen River were not set up until there was a hugh immigrant wave at one point (can't recall what the incident was or what year).

The figure "four millions" was probably around the early 70's?

[...]The only other type of Restaurants that meet most customers criteria were those opened by immigrant seamen from Singapore and Malaysia that featured combinations of Chinese, Hainan, Malay and European Style Dishes.

It's very interesting isn't it? The early Chinese immigrants to SE Asia brought their Chinese cooking techniques. They created their own fusion food. And when such dishes are introduced in Hong Kong, they have to adjust back to the local (Chinese) taste...

It's still growing with no end in sight. There are authentic Asian Restaurants in most large cities in North America especially Vancouver, Toronto, Winnipeg and Montreal in Canada. Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, Boston, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Chicago and your City next.

And add to that list are your Seattle, Portland, San Jose (South Bay) and Sacramento too! :smile:

W.K. Leung ("Ah Leung") aka "hzrt8w"
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi All

My parents are both from ToiShan or "Hoi San" if you're really from there! My dad immigrated from the White Water area (Bok Suey) in 1923 and my mom came from Hoi Serng in 1940.

I am actually going to visit the ancestral homes this month. Going for a wedding to meet all these relatives I've never known before. Does anyone know of any good restaurants/food stalls in Hoi San and in Hong Kong which I should not miss? Will also be in Guangzhuo for a bit so any food tips will be much appreciated.

This might be a nutty question but with all the avian flu business going on, would it be rude not to eat duck/chicken at the wedding banquets?

Thanks.

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Hi.

Since you're living in Beijing I wonder if you could help me. I will be in Beijing for a few days with my sisters (4 women!) before going south to Toi Shan for a wedding. We are looking to eat the best Peking duck while in Beijing. Any suggestions? I've been to Liqun Duck restaurant on another trip and it was very good but was wondering if there is a better place you can recommend?

Thanks!

Just to add to the list of non-toysan people on egullet...

I am a (sort of) third generation Singapore-born Chinese.  My parents were both born in Singapore, and three of my grandparents were also born in Singapore.  My paternal grandfather was born in Swatow in China.  I believe that there is some Peranakan blood in the family as well, since my dad's family has some awesome Peranakan dishes in their repetoire and my great-grandmother wore the kebaya on a daily basis.

I am teochew (chaozhou) on my dad's side and cantonese on my mom's side.  I speak some teochew and almost no cantonese.

I have now come a full circle in that I am now working in Beijing.  A great disappointment, food-wise (just to keep it on track!) is the lack of good teochew cusine in this capital city.  I miss greatly all my favorite teochew dishes from Singapore - hay cho (rolls made of crabmeat, prawns, minced pork and minced water chestnuts that are wrapped in pig's caul, steamed and then deep fried), steamed promfret, braised goose and tofu, sio be (teochew version of siumai, but less porky and eaten with a vingerary sauce), cold steamed crab, and the ultimate dessert - oh nee (mashed taro with mashed pumpkin and lotus seeds; this is extremely rich and utterly delicious.  Also utterly bad for the arteries - it has to be made with lard for the ultra-smooth texture).

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I am a mutt!!!

Mother side: Japanese, Tianjin, Yunnan and Toishan/Hakka.

Dad: side: Shanghai and Cantonese (Non-Toishanese).

I have lived in Taiwan, HK, Hawaii and Canada when I was a very lad. Pretty much grew up in New Yawk eating lotsa good pizzas and bagels.

Edited by AzianBrewer (log)

Leave the gun, take the canoli

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A little late to this thread. I may have posted my story elsewhere, but I’ll add it here.

My dad was from Toisan, my mom is from Hong Kong. Dad, who was a “paper son”, immigrated to New York in 1927. He married his first wife sometime after that (history is a little blurry here), then she passed away. He went back to China in 1954, where he married my mom, who was considerably younger than he (actually yesterday was their anniversary), and brought her back to New York. They only went back once when they were married, and that was to HK. Being the youngest of four, my command of the language, which is a hybrid of Toisanese and Cantonese, is pretty poor. But my love for food is the strongest. Growing up, we ate a lot of the food of Ah Leung’s pictorials—jook, yook beng, etc.

Dad is credited for teaching Mom how to cook, although I suspect she was able to her own.

Karen C.

"Oh, suddenly life’s fun, suddenly there’s a reason to get up in the morning – it’s called bacon!" - Sookie St. James

Travelogue: Ten days in Tuscany

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Hi.

Since you're living in Beijing I wonder if you could help me. I will be in Beijing for a few days with my sisters (4 women!) before going south to Toi Shan for a wedding. We are looking to eat the best Peking duck while in Beijing. Any suggestions? I've been to Liqun Duck restaurant on another trip and it was very good but was wondering if there is a better place you can recommend?

Thanks!

Judy, welcome to the eGullet Society!

I would suggest that you look through these search results of a site search of topics in the China forum with "Beijing" in the title. If you would like more recommendations, please feel free to ask in a relevant thread.

For what it's worth, I had wonderful Beijing ka ya at the Li Family Restaurant, but that's really high-end cuisine. Here are pictures from the second-best place, which was way cheaper....But back to food histories of non-Toysan people. (And, in case you didn't realize it, there is a thread on the Food Histories of the Toysan People and also one that starts with Ben Hong's wonderful Childhood memories of a Toysan Village. I thought that particularly since you're Toysanese, you'd want to know.:smile:)

Michael aka "Pan"

 

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I am a mutt!!!

Mother side:  Japanese, Tianjin, Yunnan and Toishan/Hakka.

Dad: side: Shanghai and Cantonese (Non-Toishanese).

I have lived in Taiwan, HK, Hawaii and Canada when I was a very lad.  Pretty much grew up in New Yawk eating lotsa good pizzas and bagels.

Oh good another mutt! :biggrin:

Maternal grandmother: Manchurian from Shenyang

Maternal grandfather: Shandong Han (but lived in Russia when young)

Paternal grandmother: English from the Midlands (the family had been in one area since at least the 1600s!)

Paternal grandfather: Low Scots-origin (west coast) Canadian settler

On the lateral 'family shoots', there's Dutch, Indonesian, Japanese and Spanish....

Having been born in KL Malaysia, I lived in HK, Vancouver, Montreal, London, Beijing, and (for a wee bit...) Barbados! :wacko:

I get a bit confused when people ask me where I'm from..... but the best thing is that I've had the chance to eat myself stupid on foods from around the globe :biggrin:

Hi.

Since you're living in Beijing I wonder if you could help me. I will be in Beijing for a few days with my sisters (4 women!) before going south to Toi Shan for a wedding. We are looking to eat the best Peking duck while in Beijing. Any suggestions? I've been to Liqun Duck restaurant on another trip and it was very good but was wondering if there is a better place you can recommend?

To add to Pan's excellent advice, I know of a good place to the south east of the city centre, but I *cannot* for the life of me remember its name - I will try and dig it up, if I can. You might try looking at the website of Beijing City Weekend magazine (it's something like www.cityweekend.com.cn) - they have restaurant awards every year for the 'Best of..'

Have a good trip!!!

<a href='http://www.longfengwines.com' target='_blank'>Wine Tasting in the Big Beige of Beijing</a>

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Thanks Pan. I realized after I posted that I was in the wrong thread.

And thanks for the tips. I went to the threads as you suggested and found some good info. I am excited about all the great food in China.

Hi.

Since you're living in Beijing I wonder if you could help me. I will be in Beijing for a few days with my sisters (4 women!) before going south to Toi Shan for a wedding. We are looking to eat the best Peking duck while in Beijing. Any suggestions? I've been to Liqun Duck restaurant on another trip and it was very good but was wondering if there is a better place you can recommend?

Thanks!

Judy, welcome to the eGullet Society!

I would suggest that you look through these search results of a site search of topics in the China forum with "Beijing" in the title. If you would like more recommendations, please feel free to ask in a relevant thread.

For what it's worth, I had wonderful Beijing ka ya at the Li Family Restaurant, but that's really high-end cuisine. Here are pictures from the second-best place, which was way cheaper....But back to food histories of non-Toysan people. (And, in case you didn't realize it, there is a thread on the Food Histories of the Toysan People and also one that starts with Ben Hong's wonderful Childhood memories of a Toysan Village. I thought that particularly since you're Toysanese, you'd want to know.:smile:)

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