Undercooked Food

[shelora]

After years of dining, working with and more recently writing about food, I've reached a point where I no longer enjoy undercooked food served to me in restaurants. I'm getting increasingly frustrated.

I don't want risotto al dente - why is it 9 times out of ten served this way? I know it is a difficult thing to "hold" risotto and it is usually par-cooked and then cooked the rest of the way to order. But why al dente? I do not recall any recipe in any book that requires you to cook risotto al dente.

The other day I was served pork loin in a wonderful gorgonzola sauce. The pork was undercooked with pink - making it hard to cut through and chew. Why? It was too late to send it back, so I left it for my partner who struggles with the concept of food left on his or my plate.

On numerous occasions, I have sent meat dishes back, when they are too rare - I usually go medium - only to be presented with overcooked meat. Am I being punished?

I don't enjoy dry overcooked food either.

Is it the quality of the restaurants I'm frequenting? Is there some cooking technique or reasoning behind undercooking I've forgotten? Why not just serve the meat raw?

I thoroughly enjoy sushi and sashimi and quality steak tartare. But food disguised as cooked when it is almost rare, I no longer enjoy.

Have I lost my palate? Do I now only order braised meats and long simmered stews? Am I quickly heading down the senior's road of pureed foods only?

Please help.

[TheFoodTutor]

I thought risotto was supposed to be al dente, and I love my pork loin cooked medium rare. Maybe you should take me with you to restaurants, and I can eat the stuff you don't like.

Seriously, though, you should be able to get a steak cooked to the correct temperature, no matter what your preference is. Are you going by the same gauge I am?

Rare = cool, red center

Med Rare = warm, red center

Medium = warm, pink center

Medium Well = warm throughout, thin line of pink in the middle

Well = warm and cooked completely through

Most restaurants these days cook pork to either medium or medium rare, unless the customer specifies they want it cooked more than that, so often the server won't ask for a preferred temperature.

I don't know what else to say to be helpful.

Edited March 10, 2005 by TheFoodTutor (log)

[=Mark]

I've noticed this more with veggies as a side dish. It's fine if I'm having a salad for the veggies to be crunchy, but in the last 15 or so years the fad seems to have held that warmed, but not actually cooked veggies are preferred.

As for pork, it seems the percieved view in the industry for leaner cuts has resulted in pork so lean that if cooked anything past medium rare turn into leather. A secondary consequence is the industry practice of injecting most cuts of pork with brine to counteract the results of the super-lean cuts.

[shelora]

Thanks Food Tutor.

I'm going to take your gauge with me to check against what I'm ordering and receiving.

Wasn't there a time when pork was cooked all the way through? In the olden days?

I don't get the pleasure of hacking through a med to med rare piece of pork.

Anyone know the reasoning behind serving pork this way? What exactly is the esthetic?

[eje]

Wasn't there a time when pork was cooked all the way through? In the olden days?

←

Trichinosis used to be a problem in pork. However, it has been almost entirely eradicated in farmed pork, so is not the concern it used to be. However, if you are ever served Wild Boar (or other carnivorous or omnivorous game,) you should insist it being cooked to at least 150.

Erik

[mizducky]

Wasn't there a time when pork was cooked all the way through? In the olden days?

←

Trichinosis used to be a problem in pork. However, it has been almost entirely eradicated in farmed pork, so is not the concern it used to be. However, if you are ever served Wild Boar (or other carnivorous or omnivorous game,) you should insist it being cooked to at least 150.

Erik

←

Moreover, the recommendations that still appear in many cookbooks to cook pork to an internal temp. of 170-185 deg. F was always, literally, overkill. The trichinae die at 137 deg. F--most authorities now round that up to a recommendation of 150-165 deg. F, as eje mentions, to allow a margin of error for inaccurate thermometers, etc. Taking pork all the way to 185 would result in dry overdone meat--the moreso now that commerically-produced pork is that much lower in fat.

[Moopheus]

I thought risotto was supposed to be al dente

←

Yes, I think most traditional recipes would say al dente, though as I understand it, not to the point where the center of the grain is still hard and crunchy. It should be cooked but not soft.

[fifi]

I guess my pet peeve is with the vegetables. Vegetables should be raw and crisp, as in salad, or cooked until at least tender. Let's take green beans for instance. Those lovely little haricots verts should be lightly sauted until just tender. Hey chef . . . You can't do that to fully mature Kentucky Wonders! Those must be stewed into submission Southern (US) style or at least, you should check to see if they can be chewed before you serve them to me! And don't even get me started on big slabs of "grilled" squash that require a steak knife to cut them.

Whew!

Now, I like my steak more toward the medium rare side. Just don't try that with my fish. I know, I know. But it is just me. I have tried my darndest to like raw fish. I can't get there. It is a texture thing that, literally, not figuratively, makes me gag. I love tuna. The only reason it is my favorite is that I can't get wahoo that often. Please, please, cook it for me. I can't tell you how many luscious sounding tuna dishes I have passed up because they are made with "seared" tuna -- meaning it had a passing acquaintance with the grill or griddle. I finally gave up trying to order it done. I got sick of the condescending raised eyebrows from the waiters.

I am now a believer in pink pork. Not rare. If too rare it tastes funny to me. I cook loin or tenderloin to 140 degrees F and let rest under foil. (Resting temperature comes up to about 145.) It comes out perfect every time.

[emmalish]

I have tried my darndest to like raw fish. I can't get there. It is a texture thing that, literally, not figuratively, makes me gag.

←

Ugh. Me too! This is why I can't eat ceviche. It's delicious, yes, but I can't get past the texture.

[fifi]

Funny thing is, I can eat ceviche just fine if it has been "cooked" in the acid long enough. The texture is then like exceptionally tender cooked seafood. But I can tell an under "cooked" ceviche a mile away. I know that some restaurants habitually under "cook" it, maybe to appeal to the raw fish crowd, and I won't order it there. Actually, for that reason, I most often eat it when a kind fisherman has given me some just caught fish or shrimp and I just make my own like I like it.

[snowangel]

I'm with fifi on vegetables. Raw or tender.

Eggs with runny whites. Yew. Enough to send me to worship the porcelain goddess. Come to think of it, chicken that isn't cooked through (it doesn't have to be cooked to death, mind you) will send me to worship the same goddess. Instand gag factor.

[SuzySushi]

My pet peeve is with the vegetables, too. "Crisp-tender" means that you should be able to bite into them, not have to wrestle with a knife and fork.

[canucklehead]

Weirdness on my part - I like raw fish (except for raw shrimp or lobster - ugghh!) but for some reason ceviche gives me the creeps.

It always seems a little "pre-digested" to me. Again - as with so many of my posts - I apologize for the graphic language.

Edited March 10, 2005 by canucklehead (log)

[fifi]

. . . . . 

It always seems a little "pre-digested" to me.  Again - as with so many of my posts - I apologize for the graphic language.

←

Not graphic at all. Guess what happens to protein in your stomach. Yep. Eat that raw fish and you are makin' ceviche.

[Mooshmouse]

Eggs with runny whites.  Yew.  Enough to send me to worship the porcelain goddess.  Come to think of it, chicken that isn't cooked through (it doesn't have to be cooked to death, mind you) will send me to worship the same goddess.  Instand gag factor.

←

Blecch. You've hit two of my food peeves squarely on the head. I'm getting that funny gagging feeling just thinking about slicing into pink, undercooked chicken meat or slimy egg whites.

Ack to the nth degree.

[Radio7]

I very much agree about the undercooked vegetables thing. Similarly, I've bought 'roasted vegetable' sandwiches, that more often than not, contained oiled-up peppers - Raw - yet mysteriously displaying the black smudges of a non-existent roast.

Bleh.

[NulloModo]

I love my beef rare, my pork medium rare, and fish and chicken cooked just until done the minimal safe amount, I also love sushi.

What I can't seem to get my tongue around, are undercooked vegetables. Now, mind you, I love salads, and raw broccoli, cauliflower, peppers, and etc, when served in a raw fashion, like on a dips tray or something. What I don't like, is what is mentioned above, cooked vegetables that are barely cooked.

Green Beans that are bright green and still have some body to them? blech. Roasted onions or squash that aren't even showing any roasted color yet? Why? The worst though has to be the trend I have seen recently of people cooking greens (Kale, Collards, Turnip Greens, etc) and not long-stewing them, which is clearly the way God intended them to be enjoyed, and thusly why he proclaimed that preparation soul-food.

[Timh]

To me a vegetable is either cooked or its crudite. A properly cooked vegetable does not neccesarily mean washed out either. So , if its "al dente" then its not fully cooked yet. I serve pork tenderloin medium(slight pink) and loin/chops either medium or low and slow braise.

Tim

[Hest88]

I know I'm in the minority about vegetables, but I grew up eating mainly veggies sauteed by my Cantonese parents, which means I expect my greens to be crunchy and bright (unless in a braised dish or soup). Thus, I can't stand going to a restaurant, ordering sauteed chard, and getting mushy greens. I *know* that's the proper Western way, but it's just overcooked and slimy to my palate.

[SuzySushi]

I know I'm in the minority about vegetables, but I grew up eating mainly veggies sauteed by my Cantonese parents, which means I expect my greens to be crunchy and bright (unless in a braised dish or soup). Thus, I can't stand going to a restaurant, ordering sauteed chard, and getting mushy greens. I *know* that's the proper Western way, but it's just overcooked and slimy to my palate.

←

Asian restaurants do things right! It's the undercooked vegetables in Western restaurants I'm referring to... such as one steakhouse chain that regularly undercooks its carrots so much that they literally bounce off the plate when you try to pick them up with a fork.

[SKinCA]

I prefer almost all meats/fish/poultry way on the rare side. The standard joke is "I want it to "moo" when I poke it with a fork". Fish too - if my salmon isn't translucent on the inside, I'm not a happy camper. I'll would eat sushi every day of the week if I could.

I even prefer my chicken a bit pink next to the bone.

Clearly, raw potatoes suck. But other vegetables a little "al dente" I can live with. For me, it's context driven. I go both ways. The one thing I don't want is mushy, colorless, watery anything!

As for pork - nothing is more heavenly that a nice, pink slice o' pig!

[mizducky]

I even prefer my chicken a bit pink next to the bone.

←

I wish I could remember where I picked this info up, but my understanding is that poultry that comes to market a bit on the young side, or that has been brined, will naturally retain some pink at the bone--I think at least with the brining it's supposed to be due to a little leakage from the marrow??? Anyway, the point is that oftentimes a little pink at the bone is totally natural and does *not* mean the bird is undercooked. But I still have at least one friend who won't eat such chicken. I could assure her up and down that the bird's well past the "done" internal temperature, the meat could even be falling from the bone, but if there's any hint of pink she's still all "EEEWWWWWWWW!!!!" and won't touch it. We did all used to kid her about such reactions, but only gently; some food preferences are learned so young or indoctrinated so intensely that they just don't yield to rational analysis. And hey, if she doesn't like it, she doesn't like it--no point in forcing someone to eat food they just don't like. (Besides, it meant more chicken legs por moi! ).

Edited to add: okay, found one official reference, at any rate:

From the USDA website on chicken safety:

Pink Meat

When chicken has reached 180 °F as measured using a food thermometer, it should be safe to eat. The pink color in safely cooked chicken is due to the hemoglobin in tissues which can form a heat-stable color. Smoking or grilling may also cause this reaction, which occurs more in young birds.

Edited March 10, 2005 by mizducky (log)

[=Mark]

This is true, current poultry is harvested before the major bones have fully calcified and tint the nearby meat pink. A number of BBQ restaurants have had to post signs stating this due to customer fears that the chicken was undercooked.

[djbeers]

The pork doneness issue, for many mid to older aged people, is a product of our childhood and being raised to think pork needs to be done to excess. Personally, I do not care for the "new" leaner pork. It just doesn't taste as good as the pork of 30 years ago. I much prefer the pork of old, with the fat and flavor. All that said, tonight I will be having some not-too-thick center cut pork chops (about 3/4 inch), simply seasoned and fried up in one of my trusty old cast iron skillets. So I have to be very careful not to overcook them, which can happen quite quickly. This to be served with some well cooked pinto beans, white corn bread (baked in another cast iron skillet), and scalloped potatoes. A fresh Del Monte Gold pineapple will be sliced up for dessert. All that and a pitcher of iced tea, and you have a good southern meal.

I am not sure where all this undercooking stuff started. I sometimes think much of it was born out of laziness on the part of some kitchens, playing on the ignorance of many Americans when it comes to food, and our collective will to follow trends whether we like them or not. It used to be that the restaurant kitchens cooked food that satisfied the patrons tastes. More and more, we see patrons eating food in order to satisfy the chefs tastes. I'm convinced people will continue to patronize a celebrity chef's restaurants just to say they ate there, regardless of the food they are served and whether they truly like the food. There needs to be a happy balance here, and I fear it isn't happening. Sorry, but I like my green beans and asparagus to be tender. The level of green color they retain is not important to me. Not biting into something that feels like a twig is important to me.

Well, I didn't mean to launch into a rant....but I guess I did. <g>

[Ben Hong]

The perfectly done Cantonese "bok jam guy" or white cut chicken has a wee soupcon of pink next to the bone.

I skip any recipe that has the phrase "cook until tender".