• Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

schneich

Ganache: Tips, Techniques & Troubleshooting

610 posts in this topic

I'm going to make a raspberry ganache based on Wybauw's recipe, but I have no invert sugar. Can I substitute someting else for it??

Thanks

/Mette

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if not stored too long honey works as it is an invert sugar though the inversion is not complete and therefore the crystallization over time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Corn syrup should work. If you don't have that, heat and acid will invert regular sugar. If you look around, you should be able to find a corn syrup recipe that uses granulated sugar and cream of tartar.


Edited by scott123 (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm going to make a raspberry ganache based on Wybauw's recipe, but I have no invert sugar. Can I substitute someting else for it??

Thanks

/Mette

If there's any shoppes around that sell wedding cake or cake decorator supplies you should be able to pick up some trimoline or numoline, one of those guys.

Is the Wybauw book available thru normal channels or just the usual suspects, ie: JBPrince, etc.?

Good Luck!


2317/5000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

great suggestion regarding invert sugar

either torreblanco or corvitto include a recipe to do it yourself invert

dont have the books on me but im sure someone here does

try me pm tomorrow

question for tan isnt corn syrup more similar to glucose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
great suggestion regarding invert sugar

either torreblanco or corvitto include a recipe to do it yourself invert

dont have the books on me but im sure someone here does

try me pm tomorrow

question for tan isnt corn syrup more similar to glucose

corn syrup is often suggested as a sub for glucose.

I've never seen it suggested as a sub for invert sugar ala trimoline.

I'll bet nightscotsman has a recipe for invert sugar also.

BTW, everytime those Torreblanca/Corvitto books are mentioned I get shaky and try to figure out how I could possibly snaggle 400 dollars worth of books into my place.

Not to mention that 'Grand Livre' desserts book that throws another 225 on there...


2317/5000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm afraid that I don't have a recipe for making your own invert sugar, but I do know that corn syrup/glucose does not work as a substitue. For one thing corn syrup is about half as sweet as sucrose while invert sugar is about 50% sweeter. Also, invert sugar works as emulsifier in the ganache recipe while glucose would not. When it comes to something as finely ballanced as a ganache recipe, even corn syrup and glucose aren't interchangeable since corn syrup contains significantly more water.

As Akwa posted above, honey will work since it is an invert sugar, but even with the lightest clover honey, it will alter the flavor of your product. Which might not be a bad thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, the difference in sweetness between corn syrup and invert sugar will need to be compensated for, but from a perspective of texture (and shelf life as well as humectation) corn syrup will fit the bill in this instance.

Invert sugar is 50/50 glucose/fructose.

Corn syrup, depending on the brand, is a combination of high fructose corn syrup and corn syrup, giving it some fructose, just not quite as much.

Honey, being a natural product, varies greatly in it's sugar content/fructose-glucose ratio. You could pick a brand with very similar fructose/glucose specs as corn syrup AND you'd still end up with the honey taste - which, imo, would be a bit of a stretch in raspberry ganache.

Here's one recipe for invert sugar using citric acid.

I've seen lemon juice used to invert sugar, but I wouldn't use it here. If you can't find citric acid, I'd go with cream of tartar, but double the amount. According to my calculations, cream of tartar has about half the strength of citric acid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can often find citric acid in a natural foods store, herbalist or candle making store.

Maybe GNC or those kinds of places too.


2317/5000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a pic of the final result

gallery_29514_1165_312531.jpg

I'm a bit intimidated by posting pictures as an amateur amongst all you great pros, but I am very pleased with the result myself.....

In the end I used a subtle honey (which was what I had around), and the flavour compliments the raspberries very well. I'm not too worried about the shelf life, as they are only going to have a life of about two weeks. Next time, I think I'll try and concentrate the raspberry puree for a more intense flavour. The ganache was very tasty, and my husband (who has no class :-)) had the leftovers on a piece of crusty italian bread, pretending it was high class Nutella

Thanks for all the suggestions on subs for invert sugar. I'll try them out some other time.

Thanks again

/Mette

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the Wybauw book available thru normal channels or just the usual suspects, ie: JBPrince, etc.?

I got my book through my local Callebaut-pusher. It was quite pricy but I am enjoying it a lot. Don't know about the usual suspects - I'm in Denmark, where the usual suspects are a completely different lot.....

/Mette

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mette, those look awesome!

Nice work indeed.


2317/5000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I particularly like your choice of red to match your raspberry flavor and the speckled spray reminds me of real reaspberries. Very well done, I can taste them just from their looks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Next time, I think I'll try and concentrate the raspberry puree for a more intense flavour.

I find that if you cook raspberry puree down, the delicate flavor tends to dissipate rather than concentrate. Getting an intense flavor out of raspberries is tricky business. One trick that I do is to add a very tiny amount of lemon juice. Not enough to be noticed as lemon, though. It helps to give the raspberries a little oomph/brightness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The finish on the chocolates is amazing. Would you mind telling us how you got it? Did you use any special cocoa butter colors and how did the speckles occur? Thanks.


Fred Rowe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

at my place of apprenticeship the chocolatier put a product that came in a small clear bottle into all our ganache recipes. the recipe included about one teaspoon of said "ingredient" and i could not detect any off flavor. i'm pretty sure it contained invertase. i can't remember where we got it from, maybe peter's?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, the difference in sweetness between corn syrup and invert sugar will need to be compensated for, but from a perspective of texture (and shelf life as well as humectation) corn syrup will fit the bill in this instance.

Invert sugar is 50/50 glucose/fructose.

Corn syrup, depending on the brand, is a combination of high fructose corn syrup and corn syrup, giving it some fructose, just not quite as much.

Honey, being a natural product, varies greatly in it's sugar content/fructose-glucose ratio.  You could pick a brand with very similar fructose/glucose specs as corn syrup AND you'd still end up with the honey taste - which, imo, would be a bit of a stretch in raspberry ganache.

Here's one recipe for invert sugar using citric acid.

I've seen lemon juice used to invert sugar, but I wouldn't use it here.  If you can't find citric acid, I'd go with cream of tartar, but double the amount.  According to my calculations, cream of tartar has about half the strength of citric acid.

I'm wondering if you can get a product not only as close to the trimoline you would buy from a supplier but as good a substitute gram for gram, from the recipe above.


2317/5000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The finish on the chocolates is amazing.  Would you mind telling us how you got it?  Did you use any special cocoa butter colors and how did the speckles occur?  Thanks.

FWED, the thread I'm linking here covers how to get that look in your chocolates in detail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Next time, I think I'll try and concentrate the raspberry puree for a more intense flavour.

I find that if you cook raspberry puree down, the delicate flavor tends to dissipate rather than concentrate. Getting an intense flavor out of raspberries is tricky business. One trick that I do is to add a very tiny amount of lemon juice. Not enough to be noticed as lemon, though. It helps to give the raspberries a little oomph/brightness.

I use the RL Beranbaum method (Cake Bible). Essentially, you thaw frozen raspberries in a strainer and press gently so that only clear juice is collected. This is boiled down to a concentrated syrup and then added back to the pureed pulp. If you don't cook the pulp, you get an intensely fruity puree, without that cooked, jammy flavor. Extra labor, but a good result and I freeze it successfully for months.

Now I'm thinking about the container I noticed in my freezer last week... there may be raspberry ganache in my future. :smile:

Edited to add: Your chocolates look amazing, Mette!

Fern


Edited by Fernwood (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm... something strange has happened to my ganache. I have an order for a ganache cake (filled and frosted).

I made the ganache a few hours ago. After the chocolate was completely combined with the hot cream I put the warm ganache in an ice bath to cool it down and continued to stir it periodically. Once it was completely cooled I covered the bowl with plastic wrap and put it in the cooler. (I want it completely chilled because I'm going to lightly whip it so I can frost with it.) I just went and checked on it and it's beautiful to look at (nice and glossy), but when I took a spoonful I detected a grainy texture. The graininess instantaneously dissolves on my tongue, but it's definitely there when I first taste it. The only thing I did differently than normal was that I used Plugra butter instead of regular old American butter. (I had a chunk sitting in the cooler and I couldn't resist the temptation.) Could that have made a difference? Do you think it will incorporate when I whip it? Or, because the cake will be served at room temp will it not be noticeable?

Has anyone else had this problem with ganache?

FYI... I just recently opened my own shop so this whole post may be paranoia driven because now it's my name on the product and not someone else's! I have, however, found that suddenly I'm having trouble making the simplest things that I've made 1000's of times! (You don't even want to hear my caramel woes!) It's really frustrating! :angry:


"Health food may be good for the conscience but Oreos taste a hell of a lot better." Robert Redford

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently it's a common problem. Here's something I found:

After the cream is poured over the chocolate to melt the cocoa

butter, the mixture is set aside to warm undisturbed for a minute and then

stirred in a slow, circular motion. Steady agitation is essential in reducing the

fat to tiny droplets. Care must be taken to resist excessive beating, which

can bring the temperature of the fat below 90°F too quickly, producing

ganache with a grainy texture.

REPAIRING A BROKEN OR GRAINY GANACHE

If your ganache looks broken or feels grainy, there is still hope for it. To repair

a broken ganache, divide it in half. Warm one half over a double boiler to a

temperature of 130°F. The fat will melt and pool at this temperature, making

the mixture thinner. Cool the remaining ganache to 60°F by stirring it over a

bowl of ice. The fat in this portion will begin to solidify, causing the ganache

to thicken.

When both halves have reached the desired temperatures, slowly

stream the hot ganache into the cold and stir to combine. You can use a

food processor for this step by placing the cool ganache into the bowl of the

food processor, turning on the machine, and streaming in the warm ganache.

The mixture will not fall below 90°F during this procedure, so there is no risk

of creating a grainy texture. Combining the two portions of ganache in this

way averages the temperature into the optimal working range, and the fat

droplets will be suspended evenly in the water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hmm... something strange has happened to my ganache.  I have an order for a ganache cake (filled and frosted).

I made the ganache a few hours ago.  After the chocolate was completely combined with the hot cream I put the warm ganache in an ice bath to cool it down and continued to stir it periodically.  Once it was completely cooled I covered the bowl with plastic wrap and put it in the cooler.  (I want it completely chilled because I'm going to lightly whip it so I can frost with it.)  I just went and checked on it and it's beautiful to look at (nice and glossy), but when I took a spoonful I detected a grainy texture.  The graininess instantaneously dissolves on my tongue, but it's definitely there when I first taste it.  The only thing I did differently than normal was that I used Plugra butter instead of regular old American butter.  (I had a chunk sitting in the cooler and I couldn't resist the temptation.)  Could that have made a difference?  Do you think it will incorporate when I whip it?  Or, because the cake will be served at room temp will it not be noticeable?

Has anyone else had this problem with ganache?

FYI... I just recently opened my own shop so this whole post may be paranoia driven because now it's my name on the product and not someone else's!  I have, however, found that suddenly I'm having trouble making the simplest things that I've made 1000's of times!  (You don't even want to hear my caramel woes!)  It's really frustrating!  :angry:

Terrasanct is probably right about what happened with your ganache...just a note though; cold ganaches also cannot take much agitation without gentle re-warming. A subsequently broken ganache would look grainy as well. It doesn't sound like this was your problem, but something to remember. Also, while many cringe at the idea of re-emulsifying a ganache with either a robotcoupe (a non-garlicy one) or a stick blender...it works very well if there is no concern about any reduction in shelf life from incorporating some extra air.


Randall Raaflaub, chocolatier

rr chocolats

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the suggestions. I hadn't read the replies until just now, so what I did was take the ganache out of the cooler and let it sit at room temp overnight. I was hoping that the graininess would dissolve. Last night I noticed after it had been out of the cooler for about half an hour that the ganache that had splashed up on the sides of the bowl had warmed up and it wasn't grainy. I was hoping that would happen to the whole thing. When I checked it this morning it was still grainy. So, I re-melted the whole thing. I wish I'd read these replies first!!! Now I've got a big huge oil slick on top and chocolate underneath. It's even worse! I don't need it until tomorrow, so worse comes to worse I just re-make it but I hate to waste this much chocolate and cream! I'm going to keep gently stirring it as it cools to see if maybe magically it comes together, but I don't have high hopes. If it does come together will it be noticeable in the finished cake? Since the cake is being filled and frosted with it it will be very noticeable if something is wrong with the ganache. Should I just cut my losses and make it new? I don't want to lose this customer.


"Health food may be good for the conscience but Oreos taste a hell of a lot better." Robert Redford

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the suggestions.  I hadn't read the replies until just now, so what I did was take the ganache out of the cooler and let it sit at room temp overnight.  I was hoping that the graininess would dissolve.  Last night I noticed after it had been out of the cooler for about half an hour that the ganache that had splashed up on the sides of the bowl had warmed up and it wasn't grainy.  I was hoping that would happen to the whole thing.  When I checked it this  morning it was still grainy.  So, I re-melted the whole thing.  I wish I'd read these replies first!!!  Now I've got a big huge oil slick on top and chocolate underneath.  It's even worse!  I don't need it until tomorrow, so worse comes to worse I just re-make it but I hate to waste this much chocolate and cream!  I'm going to keep gently stirring it as it cools to see if maybe magically it comes together, but I don't have high hopes.  If it does come together will it be noticeable in the finished cake?  Since the cake is being filled and frosted with it it will be very noticeable if something is wrong with the ganache.  Should I just cut my losses and make it new?  I don't want to lose this customer.

Try, with the ganache warmed up, using the stick blender/robotcoupe/mixer. If it is simply separated, it will sound sloshy at first...when it comes back together sufficiently, it will get smooth and quiet. If in doubt...try sticking a small sample in the cooler for a little while to see if it goes grainy. Good luck!


Randall Raaflaub, chocolatier

rr chocolats

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's what I've done so far... I'm in the process of moving and a lot of my stuff is in a box somewhere so I can't get my hands on a robot coupe or my stick blender. I put the ganache in a bowl and periodically stirred it with a rubber spatula until it was room temp. I then put it in the mixer on "stir" with the paddle and have been slowly stirring it. Within five minutes it came together-nice and glossy and perfectly smooth. It's been going for about an hour and a half. I took your advice, rraaflaub, and stuck a small amount in the cooler because I figured there was no point in trying to fix it if it was going to break again once I stuck it in the cooler. Anyway, the small amount I stuck in the cooler has set up very firm and it's completely smooth! So... so far so good. Thanks everybody for your help.


"Health food may be good for the conscience but Oreos taste a hell of a lot better." Robert Redford

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.