Pastry Cream

[shinyboots]

I am making a pastry cream for the first time. After whipping the hell out of it, I skeptically put the thick cream over a fine metal sieve (I bought a cuisipro 7-8") and the darn stuff just sat there. Some filtered through, but most just chilled in the sieve. I eventually bagged it and food-processed the rest. What happened?

And, how is it ever possible that pastry cream (unless hours of waiting is required) could filter through such tight mesh?

[ladyyoung98]

ok i admit that ive not worked with pastry cream very often..and not for years...so i have to ask why you put it in a seive of any kind? im just curious as any recipe ive ever used never called for it

[chefpeon]

Gee, same here.....a sieve? The only time I've ever used a sieve with pastry cream was when

I screwed up once and let it sit too long on the fire and the bottom got a little toasty. I ran it

through the sieve to get the little burned bits out. Didn't have time to make a new batch or I would have.

Fill us in on the recipe and the method of preparation it calls for.

[TurtleMeng]

Well, the last recipe I read (Baking Illustrated) called for the sieve. I think Sherry Yard's book called for it but I'm @ work and can't check on it. There must be others. The recipe also states "if still grainy you can process it in the food processor".

For all the pros out there I doubt anyone would have time to do it.(or if it's necessary). I am a home baker, and actually did push mine thru the sieve last time, I used a rubber spatula and had no problem. It did turn out to be very smooth. The "sieve" I use is my do-everything-strainer, very fine mesh, I also use it to sift.

[culinary bear]

"if still grainy you can process it in the food processor".

Oh dear god. Why not just add miracle whip? *shudder*

If you need to pass something thick, a good tip is to have a large square of muslin, put it in a bowl, pour/dollop your sauce/ganache/whatever on to the muslin, gather up the corners, and squeeze - instantly, it passes through and all the lumps disappear.

Edited February 12, 2005 by culinary bear (log)

[chefpeon]

Grainy pastry cream?

[chromedome]

Most recipes I've seen for any sort of custard/anglaise/pastry cream suggest straining it through muslin or a fine tamis. If you've been lax and allowed your eggs to curdle slightly, it will fish the lumps out; or if you've not incorporated the starch into your pastry cream properly it will conceal the evidence of your shortcomings.

I don't think I'd every "whizz" a badly curdled custard in the food processor to try and pass it off; but who knows what we'll do under enough time pressure?

[chiantiglace]

Hahaha, lord just get a freakin laddle and puch it through already.

Who the hell has time to sits around and waits for soething to pass through, pound that shit down, dont mesh the prticles through ut a little force and agitation is going to help you a lot.

Edited February 12, 2005 by chiantiglace (log)

[ladyyoung98]

"if still grainy you can process it in the food processor".

Oh dear god. Why not just add miracle whip? *shudder*

If you need to pass something thick, a good tip is to have a large square of muslin, put it in a bowl, pour/dollop your sauce/ganache/whatever on to the muslin, gather up the corners, and squeeze - instantly, it passes through and all the lumps disappear.

←

muslin?...is that the same as a cheese cloth?

Edited February 12, 2005 by ladyyoung98 (log)

[culinary bear]

muslin?...is  that the same as  a cheese cloth?

←

Similar, yes.

[simdelish]

I usually put my pastry cream through a chinois, to get the vanilla bean pieces out. I also was taught if you did manage to curdle your pc, you could save it by adding a bit of cold milk and blending it, although I have never done that. As you must bring it to a boil, curdling is hard to do. It can be lumpy however if you have had to step away or neglected it for a moment...

Creme anglaise is more likely to curdle however, and since I always want mine perfectly smooth, and have to remove the beans anyway, that always gets sieved straight into an ice bath.

Coincidentally, I came across a recipe today of Payard's that I love, his lemon chibouste. He specifically says to sieve to get out the pieces (naturally), but then he continues (what surprised me, which is why I remember it) "put in a blender to blend out the lumps!"

[aidensnd2]

The recipe also states "if still grainy you can process it in the food processor"

I think this should read, "If still grainy then you have done something wrong."

As long as you mix everything properly and don't overcook it you shouldn't have a problem with it being grainy.

Depending on the recipe you might end up with a really firm product after it's been chilled. If so just put it in a mixer with the paddle to get it to a smooth workable consistency.

If you are straining to get the vanilla pod out you can just strain the milk when adding it to your egg mixture or just leave the pod in until it has cooled and then just pull it out.

[bakerboy]

If i strain my pastry cream at all, i do it when its hot...soon as it comes off the heat, then add a bit of butter or whatever.

Shinyboots: if you had a nice thick pastry cream, "whipping the hell out of it" or sieving it may be two steps you could omit completely. Give us a bit more info on ingredients and technique and maybe someone could better figure out what went wrong if anything. if it wasn't really lumpy or curdled, your probably fine. Did it taste O.K.?

Found this in a pad mag. 1996, the one with Charlie Trotter on the cover:

"If your creme anglaise happens to break, quickly funnel into a wine bottle, filling it halfway; cork the bottle and shake vigorously. The creme anglaise should come back."

Has anyone ever tried this? I've tried putting the creme on ice and straining or blending and came away with a bit of "usable" product, but usually when my anglaise or pastry cream breaks, its shot, done, its over johnny. I've been able to save some if i act quickly, but i can safely say i've never been able to "bring it back".

[chefpeon]

I think this should read, "If still grainy then you have done something wrong."

As long as you mix everything properly and don't overcook it you shouldn't have a problem with it being grainy.

Depending on the recipe you might end up with a really firm product after it's been chilled. If so just put it in a mixer with the paddle to get it to a smooth workable consistency.

If you are straining to get the vanilla pod out you can just strain the milk when adding it to your egg mixture or just leave the pod in until it has cooled and then just pull it out.

Amen!!!!!

I have always considered pastry cream to be one of the most simple things to make. I use a crapload of the stuff. Curdle? Grainy? Heck I've never had a problem. Sometimes I think people can make things much more complicated than they need to be.

Here's the simple foolproof way to make pastry cream:

Put your cream (or whatever combination of dairy products you use) in a pot with your butter and put it on the fire. Whisk occasionally.

Meanwhile, toss your sugar and starch together, then whisk your eggs into it. Add your vanilla if you want.....some people toss this in at the end, as they do their butter also. I also like to add a coupla pinches of salt.

Wait for your cream to just come to a boil (or you can do like I do and be on the other side of the kitchen, and then when you see cream boiling over on to the stove, you know it's ready )

Dip a little pitcher or ladle into your barely boiling cream, and while whisking your egg/starch/sugar mixture, stream your hot cream in. Once you've tempered your egg/starch/sugar mixture with the hot cream, pour all that back into your barely-boiling cream pot.

On low fire, whisk your pastry cream til it's thickened....then cook for a couple minutes more to

cook the starchiness out.

Add your vanilla and/or butter if you haven't already done so.

Pour your pastry cream in to a shallow pan (sheet pan, hotel pan, 9x13 pyrex...whatever suits) and cover the surface directly with plastic wrap. Put in fridge to cool. When ready to use, put some in a bowl and stir, or stick on mixer on low speed to smooth out.

Easy.

On the occasions where I've been privy to using a vanilla bean, I split the pod (or pods) and scrape the insides into the dairy product I'm intending on heating. I don't strain, because I like

the little specks in my final product. It says "hey, look at me! I used a real vanilla bean!"

Or sometimes it says, "hey, look at me! I spaced out and burnt the pastry cream!"

[shinyboots]

It's funny that some of the early posts mentioned never seeing the "sieve" step in making pastry cream, all the recipes I saw called for it.

Anyways, I used Sherry Yard's recipe and I guess it worked pretty well. The cream was a little lumpy after cooking in the pot (probably caused I was "whipping the hell out of it") so I did throw it in a blender for a few seconds. The resultant cream was thick and tasty. I must say it was pretty orange, flavor and appearance, thanks mostly to the addition of orange zest. I must have put too much in, but nevertheless the flavor was nice.

One thing, I felt that the yield was a little low. How much cream do you expect (like ounces) from a recipe that calls for 2 cups milk and 1/2 cup sugar and 3 eggs - including other miscalleny?

[aidensnd2]

(or you can do like I do and be on the other side of the kitchen, and then when you see cream boiling over on to the stove, you know it's ready tongue.gif )

Damn. I thought I was the only one who used that technique.

[chefpeon]

One thing, I felt that the yield was a little low. How much cream do you expect (like ounces) from a recipe that calls for 2 cups milk and 1/2 cup sugar and 3 eggs - including other miscalleny?

You didn't expect that all the ingredients were going to magically expand and give you a lot of pastry cream, did you? What you put into it is what you get out of it. If you put in 2 cups of milk (16 ounces), 1/2 cup sugar (about 3.5 ounces), and 3 eggs (which I think is about a 3/4 of a cup, or about 6 ounces), you'll get about 25.5 ounces of Pastry Cream or 1 lb 9.5 ounces.

[artisanbaker]

use a whisk and it will pass through, leaving you with any tiny pieces of starch or egg white.

pour it in while it is hot and whisk immediately

[TurtleMeng]

Like the original poster said, it was actually stated in Sherry Yard, page 101, to strain and to "process until smooth if lumpy". Hey, I know most are pros here, and that's why the amateurs ask questions, but don't be too cynical when you guys see us bring up we-thought-would-be-good-idea techniques. I would not process it just because I am too lazy to wash yet another bowl. Fortunately my cream has not been lumpy.

I have seen some recipes using whole eggs and some using just yolks, does anyone care to comment which way you prefer?

[chefpeon]

I have seen some recipes using whole eggs and some using just yolks, does anyone care to comment which way you prefer?

It just depends on how rich (and yellow) you want the end result to be, actually. Some applications are great for richer creams and some aren't.

[Wendy DeBord]

Like the original poster said, it was actually stated in Sherry Yard, page 101, to strain and to "process until smooth if lumpy".  Hey, I know most are pros here, and that's why the amateurs ask questions, but don't be too cynical when you guys see us bring up we-thought-would-be-good-idea techniques.  I would not process it just because I am too lazy to wash yet another bowl.  Fortunately my cream has not been lumpy. 

I have seen some recipes using whole eggs and some using just yolks, does anyone care to comment which way you prefer?

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O.k. we have a little confusion going on here. I hope I can clear things up.

On the pro. side: we make pastry cream day in and day out, it's really like tieing your shoes for us. It's that basic to a professional. We do it in our sleep while juggling two dishwashers and tempering chocolate.

BUT this is a forum for professionals and amateurs, and quite honestly we all greatly enjoy all questions, thats why we are here. I hope no one ever feels uneasy about asking any question!!!!!!

With most baking recipes there are many similar and never two exactly the same recipes.... and many small differences in techniques you can use.........but in the end we all pretty much wind up with the same thing. You do not have to strain pastry cream for it to work. Some people find the most remote piece of cooked egg terribly unprofessional, some people can't begin to find the time to strain every item they make using eggs. To each his own. I've never noticed a recipe telling you to strain pastry cream, but heck I own Sherry's book, I just never noticed that step because I knew otherwise.

Yes, there are easier and harder ways to strain dense food. Again, personal preference. I don't like playing with cheesecloth I like a strainer or a chinois and a ladle to push thru verses a spatula or a whisk. Ditto on doing this while the item is still hot once it cools it's way harder to do. But then it all gives you the same thing in the end, and well in time, you might find it interesting to try different techniques, it's supprising and educational sometimes.

Lumps............hum, I find them more likely to form in the beginning of your thickening stage. If your not mixing it well by then, it will take more effort to break those down then just simple light stirring. Using a whisk to stir in a straight sided pot doesn't work. The round whisk can't hit the corners, so your corners are over cooking and ruining your sauce. Instead, buy a heat proof rubber spatula and use that in conjuction with your whisk to scrape all surfaces of your pan while your cooking.

That wine bottle trick with anglaise sauce isn't going to work, period. You can't untighten your over cooked egg. You can modify the sauce. You could add some pastry cream or melted ice cream to it too.You can burr whip the heck out of it and break up every molecule of over cooked egg. But it still isn't the same, theres a huge difference. That's one sauce I don't believe in fixing, do it right or don't do it at all.

Back to pastry cream. I've tried tons of recipes looking for the perfect pastry cream. I always come back to a recipe I got from my Mother, it's 2 cups sugar, 1 cup flour, stir together, add 5 cups of whole milk, bring up close to boil, temper in 8 yolks, cook until thick (boiling) add vanilla and butter to taste. I find that recipes using cornstarch as my thickener are firmer to begin with (while still hot after just making it) but they break down faster in the cooler then using Mom's recipe with the flour. Adding a couple whole eggs is fine, but I can't tell you theres much of a difference in the end. The recipes I've used with whole eggs also had cornstarch as their thickeners and that just doesn't please me. The best pastry cream with cornstarch I've found is the one in the new CIA pastry book.

P.S. And heres a shocker: I use an aluminum pot to cook my pastry cream and all sauces in (that's all they own at work) and I've YET to see any sign of a chemical reaction, taste or greening of my egg. I wouldn't have believed that was true until I was forced into it. Books and people aren't always right. Gotta leave room for your own opinion.

[TurtleMeng]

. The round whisk can't hit the corners, so your corners are over cooking and ruining your sauce. Instead, buy a heat proof rubber spatula and use that in conjuction with your whisk to scrape all surfaces of your pan while your cooking.

Oops. I made some creme anglaise just now, ignorantly stirring with my whisk. The corners DID overcook.

I also need new Lasik surgery. The candy thermometer was reading 190 and I thought it was 175 (now I know you pros don't rely on a stupid THERMOMETER for sure... but I did not know when it would be done...and it WAS over done...little bits of eggs...BIG HUGE FAT HAIRY deal, I strained this stuff. Tasted great.

I should always log on this site before making anything new.

[Wendy DeBord]

A tip for making anglaise: bring your cream and sugar up to a boil, then temper into the yolks and return it to your pot. Having your cream that hot when you've tempered your eggs means that in moments your anglaise will be done. It's really about 4 quick stirs around the pot and it's done.

Sometimes if your watching a thermometer for temp. it will hit it so fast that by the time you react and get your anglaise out of the pot, it's too late you've scrambled your eggs on the bottom. Instead if you know how long it takes (just a couple stirs) and notice the mixture is getting hotter you can stop and strain your anglaise with perfect timing.

I also strain mine into a bowl set in a ice water bath and give it a couple stirs, to quickly lower it's temp.. and prevent any scrambling (which can happen even after you have your eggs out of your pot).

[Patrick S]

I strained pastry cream a few times, but I stopped doing it because nothing was ever left behind in the strainer!

[Melanger]

I've been making my pastry cream with half and half, also, I've been using Eisan starch instead of flour or cornstarch. It tends to get lumpy unless you beat the crap out of it when cooking (correction, it WILL get lumpy).

So, you cook the cream out all the way, as in thick thick thick. Dump it into the mixer with the paddle, turn it on 1st speed and put the butter in bit by bit. Let it mix for about 30 minutes, and presto, creamy, smooth, and deliciously fatty pastry cream.