Over and Underrated Restaurants

[nwyles]

Besides, how influential are opinions posted on eGullet anyway? I posted a pretty negative DOV of Bis Moreno - it seems hard to believe that their business will suffer because of that.

You'd be incredibly surprised. I have the feeling that eGullet (the Vancouver chapter) has it's finger on the pulse of dining in Vancouver, more so than the glossies and the print press. If I owned a restaurant, was a consultant, or cared about the industry, i'd be cruising these boards for smelt like a shark.

Ahhh, it's nice to have the apron off.

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They are ! It's true ! ( Ok, this is starting to sound like some kind of conspiracy theory, it is time for me to go and put my tinfoil helmet back on so "they" can't read my mind )

[transfattyacid]

gosh whats going on here then ?

if a forum can only say good , postive things, then its only doing half its job .

comparable to only using salt , but not pepper ?

[seanw]

What does not kill us, only make us stronger! You should be concerned at what your customer thinks about your meal, only problem is when it becomes the concesus of feeling. Listen & if valid change things!! problem their could be financial so it's a bit of a bind for some.....It's difficult to gauge the clientele so why bother & try doing what you want but it's kinda personal don't you think?.

cheers sean

[nwyles]

Ok, I give. Not !

Sean is a friend and I feel a strange compulsion to defend him even though he does not need it ( and has not asked for it - I am going to be crushed when he tells me to shut the fuck up ! ). I do not know what is driving it ? I must be crazy becuase I can't let it go ! Like a dog with a bone !

When I said Sean is one of our own, perhaps that is not quite true. He and I ( and a few others ) share something in common. We post about our experiences, giving everybody a chance to see and understand what goes on behind the scenes in restaurants in this town. He invited all of us down to the Heather ( on his dime ! ) for a cheese and whiskey tasting, sharing two of his passions in his home. Any place that you spend 95 % of your waking hours is your home. The other place is where you sleep. He is one of the "professionals" on this board and has shared a unique insight into his operation in the first post on the Irish Heather thread. He let it all hang out, leaving nothing unsaid. Overwhelmed and expressing difficulties with the whole Dine Out adventure, having to close the doors on one of the outlets because of staff shortages etc.

I am not the ettiquite director and am not hear to point out the lack of social graces ( we will leave that for Andrew's mother ) It is not about being "nice nice" or pulling punches. It is knowing when to not say anything.

I know, you paid your $15 so you get to have your moment in the sun. You sat in the corner and scribbled on your napkin all of your thoughts. Or you quietly got drunk and jumped on the bandwaon when your head cleared enough for you to remember you were there. You ran home and posted as soon as you could for all to see. Good for you. You paid your $15.00. so you get to play food critic. Bully for you.

Why does this bother me ? I guess because he already let it all hang out, telling about the difficulties and everyone so quick to agree and point out other short comings. Then it starts to pile on.

Whatever. Good for you. I have fuelled the fire by not letting this go. I accept that. But you know, it just seems like kicking a guy when he is down ( not really, I mean Sean has three business that he built in a really rough neighbourhood. It will take more than a few mean words from a few egulleters to have any real effect ) It just does not seem sporting and is not a true representative of what the Heather is all about. It is good to see that some of you have gone down and checked it out in the past 24 hours and it would seem that everything is OK.

Anyways, I have to go now, I too am starting to get cranky.....................

Edited February 3, 2005 by nwyles (log)

[appreciator]

It will take more than a few mean words from a few egulleters to have any real effect ) It just does not seem sporting and is not a true representative of what the Heather is all about. It is good to see that some of you have gone down and checked it out in the past 24 hours and it would seem that everything is OK.

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Aaaaaaaaaack!!!!!

Show me the mean words and I'll happily jump off my own and on board your bandwagon....

People were posting about their experience which is exactly what the DOV threads were set up to be.... man... if you can't post about that then what the f*&^%k? No one was being mean that I could see.... just expressing and describing their meals and the service. Why is that such a problem?????????

The commentary here is just that.... commentary, opinion, self expression, etc. Take it in the spirit of which it is intended.... we are not out there on our "soapboxes" frantically scribbling notes in the corner thinking we are quasi restaurant critics.... we are average joes and janes.... taking notes so that we may share our common love of food. It's really not that complex.

Restauranters and chefs get to read what the dining public has to say about eating in their own and other's establishments. The dining public get to see an insider view of what goes on behind the scenes. This should be a win-win for all, don't you think?

If we all try to be happy, happy, happy and always mind our Ps and Qs, we will end up with a lack of diversity in posting and that would make me

Edited February 3, 2005 by appreciator (log)

[appreciator]

I know, you paid your $15 so you get to have your moment in the sun. You sat in the corner and scribbled on your napkin all of your thoughts. Or you quietly got drunk and jumped on the bandwaon when your head cleared enough for you to remember you were there. You ran home and posted as soon as you could for all to see. Good for you. You paid your $15.00. so you get to play food critic. Bully for you.

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Did you mean to be so condescending here? I hope not.... it's not really very endearing.

[Andrew Morrison]

I recognise the cadence of a chef when I hear it. It's usually my cue to pick up my plates from the line and get out of his kitchen in a hurry! More amusing than condescending.

Neil, though I think Sean doesn't need to be defended, I admire you sticking up for him.

I don't think anything has gone wrong here. It's just getting really interesting.

Edited February 3, 2005 by editor@waiterblog (log)

[Daddy-A]

ANYWAY ....

We really need to get this thread back on topic, or it will have to be shut down.

Don't misunderstand me. The discussion here is really good. But it doesn't belong in this thread, or this forum for that matter. Perhaps someone could start this up again over in General Food Topics and we can let the rest of the world weigh in as well.

Now ...

Over rated - After all the discussion Jamie brought up about CFD establishments, I'd say that while successful, Earl's is a place I just don't get. Had lunch there Tuesday. New menus. Nice looking room. The Kung Pow Chicken was still noodles and veggies swimming in sauce. Had a better meal for less money at the Korean BBQ on Wednesday.

Under rated - Tropica on Cambie. I know Banana Leaf is the gold standard around here for Malaysian, but I've enjoyed my meals (admittedly there have been a lot) at Tropika every bit as much ... often more. Tropica has a bigger room too.

A.

[Vancouver Lee]

Ummm ... Lee?  Did nobody tell you you're not allowed dining friends outside of eGullet? 

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I know, I know. I'm a polygamist at heart.....or maybe thats a polygastronomist?

[Coop]

My advice on Earl's is to enjoy the pizza, cheap wine mark ups and the unattainable hostesses.

[Daddy-A]

My advice on Earl's is to enjoy the pizza, cheap wine mark ups and the unattainable hostesses.

That's funny Coop! I was thinking about you and your pizza thread (where you ended up at Earl's) when I was ordering. Need to listen to my inner Coop.

A.

[Chocoholic]

(quietly ignoring the debate raging on above )

over: Coast. I have eaten there two times now and even though the food is perfectly edible and the service pleasant enough, I don't think it deserves the accolades and hype it has been receiving. It is not the kind of place I put in my list of places to take friends from out of town who want to sample good Vancouver food for example.

under: I totally agree about the Ordinary. Another place in walking distance from my house, this time on our way to Kits. After passing by a few times and glancing inside and checking out the menu we decided to pop in for some dinner. This was a while ago and I don't exactly remember what we had but what I do remember is that we really liked the place and will certainly return soon. They were also very accomodating to our little boy who is undergoing rigorous restaurant training but still makes a bit of a mess

Another one is Jumbo Sushi on 6th and Willow. Ignore the somewhat distracting name. It is a very nice little place with a funky interior, jazz music in the background and a Japanese couple in the kitchen who crank out quality sushi, donburis and sobas at bargain prices. The three of us ate our fill there last week for what I paid for just my steak at Gotham the night before.

Lastly is En, I never see it mentioned here. Not nearly as cheap as Jumbo, it does deliver innovative and quality Japanese food outside of the norm. This is my wife's favorite Japanese place and I agree fully. Somehow after eating at En we always end up at the Bizou Bistro next door for specialty coffees and chocolate bombs...

[nwyles]

Overrated : Milestones - The service style sucks. I can never tell who is taking care of me. One person seats us, a different person says hi at the table, a different person takes the order( I think this would be our waiter ) , a different waiter delivers it, water refilled by a different person, drinks run by bartender, quality check by someone else, a few others inbetween and then back to the waiter for bill delivery. It is not the fault of the people who work there, but the system that they work under. Very strange. I understand that they can only walk in one direction in the dining room. Either clockwise or counterclockwise, I do not know, but you end up using more shoe leather than needed. I am not sure if they still do that but it certainly was the afterwork complaint when the servers came down for a drink after work.

The second to last time we ordered our 4 year old a cheese burger and fries from the kids menu - it was not fit for human consumption - a shriveled up burger patty the resembled something out of that Gordon Ramsay's nightmare episode. The bun was as hard as a rock. Matthew would not eat that, so the next time we were in, we just got him a regular burger. It really steamed me. Have they been keeping this patty on the corner of the grill on the off chance that a kid came in ?

Underrated : Amarcord - This is a nice little Italian joint on the next block in Yaletown. As far as Italian places in Yaletown, it certainly gets overshadowed by Pino's place, Umberto's place and La Terraza. I think it gets overlooked but the food is great ! Sort of old school Northern Italian. Pinkish tablecloths, quiet music, low key but nice. Manlio is a kind and attentive host. A great meal at a third the cost of the big boys. No silicone, no Ferrari's outside, no cougars at the bar, just nice.

[*Deborah*]

My parents and I often go to Amarcord, for the nice, same, homey-ness of it. The wine has low markups. It's not exactly exciting, but it's very comfortable it's always where my dad wants to eat after spending a few weeks in Asia and frantically travelling.

Lack of cougars (and Hockey Wives) is always a big plus for me; my eyes don't get so tired from rolling around in my head

[chef koo]

hehe. you'd like the beach house then. lots of hockey wives and lots of cougars.

[Coop]

This just in......Milestones is over rated. Sorry Neil.

[nwyles]

This just in......Milestones is over rated. Sorry Neil.

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In Yaletown it is ! I know, who would have thunk it. I can only speak for that one. I should have been clearer.

Neil

[Coop]

Cougars and hockey wives are bad? Am I the only one with some love for the older sisters?

[FannyBay]

Just a quick note, this is Mrs. TFA here: had to get involved when I saw the link. I've been waiting for this moment:

Over rated: Bins 941 & 942: I've been waiting for a long time say something about this place.What is the deal? I have dined there two times and both times have been totally put off by the sweetness of the "savoury" dishes. I can't recall the name of one specific dish, a beef tenderloin number involving a fillo pastry wrap, but it was particularly sickly sweet. I had struggled to find a dish that didn't have a sweet sauce or garnish and was really underwhelmed by my options. My dining partner suggested that they are trying to achieve a balance between salty, sweet etc. They are more than a little heavy handed with the sweet element. I don't think this is particularly genius cooking, and it makes me think the chefs have a serious sugar addiction or worse. I don't understand why so many rave about what I feel, imho, is bordering on lazy cooking.  I will say that Bin does have a fantastic by-the-glass wine list, but that's about the only draw for me.

Under rated: The Ordinary Cafe: What a little gem! Great food, great service, nice decor, nice menu, all in all the whole package. The only thing that may be a bit of a detraction is the location. It is on 4th just before Fir Street, where there is not a lot going on other than autotrade shops, not a great inspiration for foot traffic. Mr. Fatty Acid and I dined there and had a delicious, perfectly cooked meal. His braised shortribs were falling off the bone with unctuous goodness (if a bit over generous in portion), followed by an outstanding linguine with clams and chorizo. My salad was perfectly dressed in a light rasperry vinigrette, not tart, just tangy enough. My main, a well cooked tenderloin steak with frites and grilled veggies (ultiimate mid-winter fair), did not disappoint. The wine by-the-glass list was modest in length but made a good impression. All in all, a lovely night out at a very able neighbourhood restaurant.

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I have been waiting to see how long it would take someone in this group to comment on how sweet the food in Vancouver is. It seems that so many of the chefs both over use sweet to enhance their food, or they are failing to use salt correctly. Is it the Asian influence in so much of the food? A palate trained by eating pop tarts for breakfast as youngsters? I run in to this over and over again. I agree with the Bins, especially the Granville St location, especially their reductions. Wild Rice as well and West for sure! Lumiere seems to really get seasoning, not sure if that carries through to Feenies, and Chambar seems to get it when they should (though I find the Tagine, which I know is supposed to be sweet, just a little too....)

[transfattyacid]

Just a quick note, this is Mrs. TFA here: had to get involved when I saw the link. I've been waiting for this moment:

Over rated: Bins 941 & 942: I've been waiting for a long time say something about this place.What is the deal? I have dined there two times and both times have been totally put off by the sweetness of the "savoury" dishes. I can't recall the name of one specific dish, a beef tenderloin number involving a fillo pastry wrap, but it was particularly sickly sweet. I had struggled to find a dish that didn't have a sweet sauce or garnish and was really underwhelmed by my options. My dining partner suggested that they are trying to achieve a balance between salty, sweet etc. They are more than a little heavy handed with the sweet element. I don't think this is particularly genius cooking, and it makes me think the chefs have a serious sugar addiction or worse. I don't understand why so many rave about what I feel, imho, is bordering on lazy cooking.  I will say that Bin does have a fantastic by-the-glass wine list, but that's about the only draw for me.

Under rated: The Ordinary Cafe: What a little gem! Great food, great service, nice decor, nice menu, all in all the whole package. The only thing that may be a bit of a detraction is the location. It is on 4th just before Fir Street, where there is not a lot going on other than autotrade shops, not a great inspiration for foot traffic. Mr. Fatty Acid and I dined there and had a delicious, perfectly cooked meal. His braised shortribs were falling off the bone with unctuous goodness (if a bit over generous in portion), followed by an outstanding linguine with clams and chorizo. My salad was perfectly dressed in a light rasperry vinigrette, not tart, just tangy enough. My main, a well cooked tenderloin steak with frites and grilled veggies (ultiimate mid-winter fair), did not disappoint. The wine by-the-glass list was modest in length but made a good impression. All in all, a lovely night out at a very able neighbourhood restaurant.

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I have been waiting to see how long it would take someone in this group to comment on how sweet the food in Vancouver is. It seems that so many of the chefs both over use sweet to enhance their food, or they are failing to use salt correctly. Is it the Asian influence in so much of the food? A palate trained by eating pop tarts for breakfast as youngsters? I run in to this over and over again. I agree with the Bins, especially the Granville St location, especially their reductions. Wild Rice as well and West for sure! Lumiere seems to really get seasoning, not sure if that carries through to Feenies, and Chambar seems to get it when they should (though I find the Tagine, which I know is supposed to be sweet, just a little too....)

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hi i think the problem is cocaine ( the customers or the restaurants i`m not sure yet )

or maybe too much ketchup , coca cola , maple syrup , and cocaine sounds like the breakfast of champions .( not mine fellow forumites, rest assured of that ).

but as a generalisation of the food in our fair city. the sweet thing is a real problem for those amongst us who enjoy their food savoury.

any one else share this opinion ?

or am i barking up the wrong sugar cane here ?

[Ling]

This just in......Milestones is over rated. Sorry Neil.

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In Yaletown it is ! I know, who would have thunk it. I can only speak for that one. I should have been clearer.

Neil

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Our friend is visiting from Australia soon (she moved there last year) and guess where her "Welcome" dinner will be held? And no, I didn't pick the restaurant!

over-rated: All-you-can-eat sushi. I admit, it was the late night hangout of choice back in high school, but these restaurants are still thriving by serving poor-to-mediocre sushi and sashimi. I can stuff myself at a place like Samurai Restaurant for about the same price, and the quality is better.

under-rated: There's a Szechuan restaurant on Park Road (I think...it is in the complex with the Dairy Queen across from the dentist office) in Richmond with the best "juicy buns" (siew loong bao) ever. There's literally a spoon of flavourful porky juice in each little dumpling! So delicious....

[jamiemaw]

My advice on Earl's is to enjoy the pizza, cheap wine mark ups and the unattainable hostesses.

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I was recently being interviewed. The host asked me if I would ever consider opening my own restaurant. "Absolutely not," I replied, "I know too much about the business. And my sensitive disposition does not lend itself to dealing with the public."

It was not the response she was seeking. "Well, say you did, she went on, "would you rather be chef or maitre d' . . ."

"Neither," I said. "I would insist on being Director of Human Resources at Earls."

Edited February 5, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

[Edible Vancouver]

under-rated: There's a Szechuan restaurant on Park Road (I think...it is in the complex with the Dairy Queen across from the dentist office) in Richmond with the best "juicy buns" (siew loong bao) ever. There's literally a spoon of flavourful porky juice in each little dumpling! So delicious....

The restaurant is called Ba Guo Bu Yi Szechuan and Yu Miao turns out hundreds of these buns a day! In an article by Tim Pawsey last year, Yu was quoted as saying:

"You see, the secret is how we keep the juicy in. Almost everywhere else makes dumplings too. But they're usually frozen. And that makes all the difference because they'll stick to the steamer when you try to take them out." And lose "the juicy."

The restaurant and the buns are fantastic! Stephanie Yuen hosted a dinner there for a group of 10 of us last November and paired a 15 course meal with wines for us (a very interesting experience).

It is located at 8130 Park Rd. just off 3 Road.

Cheers,

Eric

[Ling]

Thanks, Eric--that's the place!

[jamiemaw]

Over rated - After all the discussion Jamie brought up about CFD establishments, I'd say that while successful, Earl's is a place I just don't get.  Had lunch there Tuesday.  New menus.  Nice looking room.  The Kung Pow Chicken was still noodles and veggies swimming in sauce.  Had a better meal for less money at the Korean BBQ on Wednesday.

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As long as you realize that one couldn't exist without the other.

And further--and this was my real point--that we enjoy an unusually high standard of CFD spots here. For example you'd find it pretty tough to find anything approaching Kung Pao on a Chili's menu--you'd have to rely on the deep fryer, I'm afraid, and their Awesome Blossom ® onion.

Sorry your Kung failed to Pow, and hoping that syndrome didn't follow you home,

Respectfully yours etc.,

F. Morris Chatters

Director of Hunan Resources

Kung Pow Phat Soy Restaurants Ltd.

"Where friends come to meet, and then leave"

Richmond, B.C.

Edited February 5, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)