Over and Underrated Restaurants

[chef koo]

this is sort of a game. but it lacks a winer or loser. there's no prize and fun is debatable. but first name a restaurant that you think is over rated and why. you must have gone there for dinner and not base your answer on hear say. and then the same again except with a restaurant that is under rated.

so to start off

over rated: wild rice. i went there with a friend. i'm the kind of guy that won't complain. i can get the wrong food, have it completey cold and taste like crap and i omst likely won't say anything. so i ordered a bowl of soup with a black truffle broth and a green onion cake. can't quite remember the name but it was bland as hell. i may as well have drunk a glass of warm water. i didn't finish it. for my main i ordered a braised boar dish with a brown rice. it was so salty that even if i was starving i couldn't finish it even if i wanted to. so up to then i was pretty dissapointed. i hadn't finished anything. i thought i'd give em another try and ordered the spring rolls. they were soggy, greasy, and the filling inside must have been bound with flour or somethign because it had a dry starchy texture t it and it was also bland as hell. i'll probably try it again sometime in the future to make sure it wasn't just a bad night on their part.

under rated: oritalia. i know they've changed chefs quite a bit but at their peak they were one of the top 60 restaurants in the world. and for good reason. their souffle's were made a la minute. their beef was sterling silver beef from alberta. sterling silver is the top 10% of the beef from alberta. sterling gold is the top 5%. the quality in the ingredients were amazing. i should know. i used to work there. but then something happened after i left. i heard alot of people talking about bad expiriences there. i've had dinner myself there alot and was rightly impressed with it. i guess after i left they must have changed things or something because everything i've heard was that oritalia was crap. who know. maybe it is now. it was a while since i've been there. last time i was there was about 2 years ago so alot could've changed. but if nothing has changed than i say this is definatley an under rated restaurant. i probably should go check it out just to make sure i don't lose face in front of my fellow society members

[Andrew Morrison]

great idea chef koo!

over: Feenie's. David Hepworth's room is Coupland-esque swank. I love it. The food is down home Canuck prepped with the expertise of professional eccentricity. I can go for that. But too much hype can be a bad thing. Don't get me wrong, Feenie's is awesome for what it is, but it's been hitched to a soaring reputation that often is not met because even though it easily meets the quality criteria it sets for itself, it's nearly impossible to consistently meet such high expectations. And the regulars! Plenty too much glitterati can take the focus off a meal. The FBI would have trouble triangulating a cellphone call here methinks. When you remember the shishi more than the meal, a grown-up would click their Manolo Blahnik's elsewhere.

under: it's a TIE! Fiction Wine Bar and Brix. My current faves. In my borderline useless opinion, I think Sean Sherwood and Patrick Mercer have their fingers on the pulse of Vancouver. Consistent with their vision, equally excellent hosts, these two are tops in my book but seem to have dodged the accolades.

PS. Can Chambar be both?

[Oyster Guy]

I don't know if this thread applies to Whistler restaurants but here goes.......

OVER-RATED- Araxi

While I admire and respect James Walt as a chef, the place has all the ambience of an airport terminal restaurant with its rather unique way of doing fine dining at high volume.

Fine dining and serving a high number of guests is something that does not usually work and it doesn't work here either.

Aside from the feeling of being, albiet subtlely, pressured to hurry up and order and eat, I found the food to be okay but there was nothing to write home about it.

The presentation and quality of the dishes we had were surprisingly uninspired and I hate to say this, boring.

The only ray of sunshine was the sushi, expertly prepared and presented by Joel who works at their oyster/seafood bar.

The oyster bar itself is a disappointment as there are only 6 seats and seems as tacked onto the place like a bad romantic interest in an otherwise passable action film.

I think that the hype does not live up to its product and I can't figure out how it manages to win the Best in Whistler award year after year.

I don't wish to cast dispersions on the awards themselves but I wonder if their placing on the list has anything in common with how much they spend on their advertising.

UNDER-RATED: Les Gros

Although the location is a bit out of the way, it is definetely worth the trip to the far reaches of town to dine at the fat man's place.

I have eaten there before he closed and I am estactic to see him back in town.

The fare is simple French style but it is good, filling and his sauces are to die for!

The room is warm and cozy with a large fireplace and you can not help but relax while you are there.

The service is bang on and the wine list, while small is still very interesting.

The prices, for Whistler, are very reasonable and the portion size is great as Pascal tends to give you the amount that he would eat for dinner.

For what it is worth, there's my opinions on the subject.

Eat well and enjoy life!

Chris

[winegeek]

This is a really great but tough question. I believe it's our inclination to say a restaurant is over-rated based on one or even 2 bad experiences there, regardless of others opinions. The same holds true for places that we consider to to be under rated. If they are so-called "under rated", it's may mean that alot of people have found it be be below par, with the exception of yourself and maybe a few others. Having said all that I'll ponder this great question and get back to it later . Andrew may have answered this question in regards to Feenies. It's really is surviving off the reputation of Rob Feenie. Would it be doing as well if a no-name had opened it?

[Coop]

Under, the wine list at Earl's.

Over, Aussie Shiraz.

Under, Cru.

Over, (priced) wine list at Lumiere.

Under, the wine service at Fiction.

Over, peek a boo showings of sommelier's underwear.

["T"]

Under, the wine list at Earl's.

Over, Aussie Shiraz.

Under, Cru.

Over, (priced) wine list at Lumiere.

Under, the wine service at Fiction.

Over, peek a boo showings of sommelier's underwear.

←

What Coop said word for word.

You speak the truth Brutha!!!!

Although, I've seen some cute sommeliers. Bring on the underwear

[transfattyacid]

Just a quick note, this is Mrs. TFA here: had to get involved when I saw the link. I've been waiting for this moment:

Over rated: Bins 941 & 942: I've been waiting for a long time say something about this place.What is the deal? I have dined there two times and both times have been totally put off by the sweetness of the "savoury" dishes. I can't recall the name of one specific dish, a beef tenderloin number involving a fillo pastry wrap, but it was particularly sickly sweet. I had struggled to find a dish that didn't have a sweet sauce or garnish and was really underwhelmed by my options. My dining partner suggested that they are trying to achieve a balance between salty, sweet etc. They are more than a little heavy handed with the sweet element. I don't think this is particularly genius cooking, and it makes me think the chefs have a serious sugar addiction or worse. I don't understand why so many rave about what I feel, imho, is bordering on lazy cooking. I will say that Bin does have a fantastic by-the-glass wine list, but that's about the only draw for me.

Under rated: The Ordinary Cafe: What a little gem! Great food, great service, nice decor, nice menu, all in all the whole package. The only thing that may be a bit of a detraction is the location. It is on 4th just before Fir Street, where there is not a lot going on other than autotrade shops, not a great inspiration for foot traffic. Mr. Fatty Acid and I dined there and had a delicious, perfectly cooked meal. His braised shortribs were falling off the bone with unctuous goodness (if a bit over generous in portion), followed by an outstanding linguine with clams and chorizo. My salad was perfectly dressed in a light rasperry vinigrette, not tart, just tangy enough. My main, a well cooked tenderloin steak with frites and grilled veggies (ultiimate mid-winter fair), did not disappoint. The wine by-the-glass list was modest in length but made a good impression. All in all, a lovely night out at a very able neighbourhood restaurant.

[Andrew Morrison]

Under rated: The Ordinary Cafe: What a little gem! Great food, great service, nice decor, nice menu, all in all the whole package. The only thing that may be a bit of a detraction is the location. It is on 4th just before Fir Street, where there is not a lot going on other than autotrade shops, not a great inspiration for foot traffic. Mr. Fatty Acid and I dined there and had a delicious, perfectly cooked meal. His braised shortribs were falling off the bone with unctuous goodness (if a bit over generous in portion), followed by an outstanding linguine with clams and chorizo. My salad was perfectly dressed in a light rasperry vinigrette, not tart, just tangy enough. My main, a well cooked tenderloin steak with frites and grilled veggies (ultiimate mid-winter fair), did not disappoint. The wine by-the-glass list was modest in length but made a good impression. All in all, a lovely night out at a very able neighbourhood restaurant.

Couldn't agree more about the Ordinary. It's a step below the big guns in town, but I was really impressed by the attentive service staff, the options on their prix fixe menus, and above all the charm of the place. Open kitchen. You also sense a determination on the part of everyone to do right by their customers. I like homespun ops that just really, really try. No big money. No star chef. Just good food, good wine, and friendly, capable folks.

Plus, there's a wickedly awesome Ducati showroom right next door, man.

Edited February 1, 2005 by editor@waiterblog (log)

[Oyster Guy]

Upon further reflection and reading the other threads in this forum, I hereby wish to retract my earlier statements.

I find that I have been unfair at judging a place by 1 bad experience and I wish to apologize to anyone or everyone that I might have offended by my flippant comments.

My deepest apologies and from now on, I will stick to what I know the best.

Oysters!

Sincerely

Oyster Guy

[chef koo]

This is a really great but tough question.  I believe it's our inclination to say a restaurant is over-rated based on one or even 2 bad experiences there, regardless of others opinions. The same holds true for places that we consider to to be under rated.  If they are so-called "under rated", it's may mean that alot of people have found it be be below par, with the exception of yourself and maybe a few others. Having said all that I'll ponder this great question and get back to it later  .  Andrew may have answered this question in regards to Feenies. It's really is surviving off the reputation of Rob Feenie.  Would it be doing as well if a no-name had opened it?

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my intent was to see members opinions. in both of my answers i stated that i would like to try them both again so that my opinions are justified. but this shouldn't be a deathly contest with reputations and restaurants sucess' on the line. it should be fun

[transfattyacid]

This is a really great but tough question.  I believe it's our inclination to say a restaurant is over-rated based on one or even 2 bad experiences there, regardless of others opinions. The same holds true for places that we consider to to be under rated.  If they are so-called "under rated", it's may mean that alot of people have found it be be below par, with the exception of yourself and maybe a few others. Having said all that I'll ponder this great question and get back to it later  .  Andrew may have answered this question in regards to Feenies. It's really is surviving off the reputation of Rob Feenie.  Would it be doing as well if a no-name had opened it?

←

my intent was to see members opinions. in both of my answers i stated that i would like to try them both again so that my opinions are justified. but this shouldn't be a deathly contest with reputations and restaurants sucess' on the line. it should be fun

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i see this as more of a reflection on the amount of hype a restaurant gets , or doesn`t get .

its fickle world out there

[appreciator]

This is a really great but tough question.  I believe it's our inclination to say a restaurant is over-rated based on one or even 2 bad experiences there, regardless of others opinions. The same holds true for places that we consider to to be under rated.  If they are so-called "under rated", it's may mean that alot of people have found it be be below par, with the exception of yourself and maybe a few others. Having said all that I'll ponder this great question and get back to it later  .  Andrew may have answered this question in regards to Feenies. It's really is surviving off the reputation of Rob Feenie.  Would it be doing as well if a no-name had opened it?

←

my intent was to see members opinions. in both of my answers i stated that i would like to try them both again so that my opinions are justified. but this shouldn't be a deathly contest with reputations and restaurants sucess' on the line. it should be fun

←

Yah know... this is interesting. We are all walking on eggshells now.... worried that we're going to offend due to postings and replys in other threads.

So should we all just post positive happy thoughts and keep the rest to ourselves.... how boring would that be... yawn.....

I'm feeling cranky now.... can ya'll tell? Rhetorical question......

Edited February 2, 2005 by appreciator (log)

[transfattyacid]

This is a really great but tough question.  I believe it's our inclination to say a restaurant is over-rated based on one or even 2 bad experiences there, regardless of others opinions. The same holds true for places that we consider to to be under rated.  If they are so-called "under rated", it's may mean that alot of people have found it be be below par, with the exception of yourself and maybe a few others. Having said all that I'll ponder this great question and get back to it later  .  Andrew may have answered this question in regards to Feenies. It's really is surviving off the reputation of Rob Feenie.  Would it be doing as well if a no-name had opened it?

←

my intent was to see members opinions. in both of my answers i stated that i would like to try them both again so that my opinions are justified. but this shouldn't be a deathly contest with reputations and restaurants sucess' on the line. it should be fun

←

Yah know... this is interesting. We are all walking on eggshells now.... worried that we're going to offend due to postings and replys in other threads.

So should we all just post positive happy thoughts and keep the rest to ourselves.... how boring would that be... yawn.....

I'm feeling cranking now.... can ya'll tell? Rhetorical question......

←

sorry but i for one aint gonna walk on egg shells for no one.

i thought this was a well balanced thread something positive something negative

this place could use some rants i bet ?

[eatrustic]

Nobody here should worry about "walking on eggshells" as long as the policies of this forum are respected.

There is a point, though, with criticising an establishment, where if you want to really get into opinions vs cold facts. i.e the chef is a bitch vs it took 35 minutes for the apps, that you need to put your name on your document and not hide behind your handle. Fair is fair.

I personally had no problems with Oyster Guy's comments, they were not mean spirited or over the top.

[nwyles]

Dear Mr. Acid,

I love to rant!

My staff say " oh, fuck, what is the old man on about now ! . I wish he would just shut up !"

I am careful not to rant on the board because I post under my own name and I have no desire for another Chef to come down here with his entire brigade and kick the crap out of me. ( I also post with my restaurant name - they could quickly find me ! )

But, that being said, I do love a good rant !

So, rant on !

[Ling]

^Just tell them that Ian's been posting under your name. Or arm yourself with your deathly rolling pin.

[transfattyacid]

to both eatrustic and nwyles

thank you for your opinions .

i dont want to get off on the wrong foot here, your right eatrustic opinions should not be personal attacks at individuals , but a fair discription of a service or product that you spent your hard earned on.

and neil i understand and respect your position .

yes i`m an anonymous Author of my posts here on egullet . and i`ve had some pm`s allready trying to out me , and i`ll tell you what i have told them .

i work in the industry , i`m a cook , at a downtown restaurant .

this is a great forum and i`m proud to be a part of it , even tho` i ve only just joined and started to get involed. i`ve been lurking for about a year .

and i` think that the forum could be all the better for some one who doesn`t have to enter in to all the politics by announcing there place of employment .

i know my bosses read this , and i would like to keep my job ( for now any way ) , and most certainly my future bosses and one day customers may read this or even be one of you ?

my modus operandi is not to upset , criticize unjustly, offend , out rage , or abuse my privileges as an egullet poster .

but the truth is out there

good night all

sleep well

[Coop]

I don't get it. If I go to a place and it sucks, why would I go back? Why would I not share this experience with my fellow e gullet members? Sometimes I hesitate to really flame a place here because I feel for the people and what they have invested in their restaurant. If we are all going to walk on egg shells here we will soon become pointless.

[Vancouver Lee]

I don't get it. If I go to a place and it sucks, why would I go back? Why would I not share this experience with my fellow e gullet members? Sometimes I hesitate to really flame a place here because I feel for the people and what they have invested in their restaurant. If we are all going to walk on egg shells here we will soon become pointless.

←

Coop, I agree 100%. If a place sucks, we have every right to share our experience with the other members of this forum. I believe that criticism needs to be fair, constructive and specific, but as long as it doesn't become "name calling" (like the "the chef is a bitch" idea above), it's perfectly OK to post that IMO. If I wanted to read nothing but positive experiences, I'd read Where magazine.

Besides, how influential are opinions posted on eGullet anyway? I posted a pretty negative DOV of Bis Moreno - it seems hard to believe that their business will suffer because of that.

[Vancouver Lee]

Under rated: The Ordinary Cafe: What a little gem! Great food, great service, nice decor, nice menu, all in all the whole package. The only thing that may be a bit of a detraction is the location. It is on 4th just before Fir Street, where there is not a lot going on other than autotrade shops, not a great inspiration for foot traffic. Mr. Fatty Acid and I dined there and had a delicious, perfectly cooked meal. His braised shortribs were falling off the bone with unctuous goodness (if a bit over generous in portion), followed by an outstanding linguine with clams and chorizo. My salad was perfectly dressed in a light rasperry vinigrette, not tart, just tangy enough. My main, a well cooked tenderloin steak with frites and grilled veggies (ultiimate mid-winter fair), did not disappoint. The wine by-the-glass list was modest in length but made a good impression. All in all, a lovely night out at a very able neighbourhood restaurant.

←

On the strength of your and Andrew's recommendation, I'm dining there on Saturday night. My neighbours and I get together once a month specifically to try restaurants nobody in the group has ever been to before. The idea is to try and find undiscovered gems, and this sounds like it might be exactly that. Thanks for the tip!

[Daddy-A]

On the strength of your and Andrew's recommendation, I'm dining there on Saturday night.  My neighbours and I get together once a month specifically to try restaurants nobody in the group has ever been to before.  The idea is to try and find undiscovered gems, and this sounds like it might be exactly that.  Thanks for the tip!

Ummm ... Lee? Did nobody tell you you're not allowed dining friends outside of eGullet?

Just make sure you post about your meal. The Ordinary has been on my list for about a year now.

A.

[nwyles]

I don't get it. If I go to a place and it sucks, why would I go back? Why would I not share this experience with my fellow e gullet members? Sometimes I hesitate to really flame a place here because I feel for the people and what they have invested in their restaurant. If we are all going to walk on egg shells here we will soon become pointless.

←

I think that this has started to get out of hand. I do not think that anyone should be walking on eggshells, ever. This started to get a little off kilter when the Irish Heather took a bit of a chewin'. The snowball effect started to take place and Sean is one of our own. He has been our gracious host en mass as well as individually. In this certain case, I think it could have been handled a little better. If you want to sit in the corner, scribble your notes and play food writer - cool , have fun. Although there were lots of well meaning intentions, it came off as a bit of a roasting.

That being said , "Over and under" - great idea, have fun.

If you want to take this piss out of "Bob" Feenie for his funky dancin', go to town - he is a big man and can handle it.( and probably does not read these posts anyways. ) Just remember, what gets written, gets read. Chambar, Bis Moreno etc - you think that these people do not know about this stuff - wrong, they certainly do. Let's not get swelled heads but this is just the long form comment card. You do not have to face them and tell them you thought something was amiss, you leave it on the table as you dart out the door. This is the same thing, just the electronic version with bigger spaces to fill in your stuff.

You go out, spend your money, write your notes and have a good time. It is all in good fun. Just be aware that you never know who is reading your stuff. I know we all think that it is just us reading this stuff but it is not. We have had so many "meets" that we feel that we know each other, and plan on having more. But there are other people out there reading this stuff - Arne heard some chatter on the radio today and you damn well know someone has been reading our posts. Other food writers have been trolling the boards for ideas - if you did not know this before, you sure do now.

If you think a place is a dive or you have had a bad experience, have the goods to back it up and post. Be prepared to be challenged, not in a bad way, but we all have very different opinions. In a few cases, you might see someone from the establishment pipe in and tell the other side of the story. As I have said before, it is the difference in opinions that makes this forum interesting. The market place will take care of the players who don't belong in the game, not a few posts on egullet.

I do not want to see this become a back slapping, glad handing, old boys network where we all sit around and sing the praise of the Chef d'jour. It will become stale very quick. Anyways, that is enough on that. Who wants to fire the first shot across the bow ? Not me - I only have a kitchen staff of five and can not take on the brigade of another restuarant !

[RooStew]

I welcome the opinions of people like transfattyacid. What the hell is wrong with sharing your true feelings on an establishment??

Constructive critisism about an topic is always valid,egullet member or not. 'Sean is one of our own??!? Does he deserve different treatment to a non egullet member?

This is getting ridiculous. Write what you want people, about the thing we have all gathered to celebrate, good food. Ever think, some of these establishments might choose to pick up there game after getting a bad review? It would be about time, I am getting sick and tired of being ripped off by shoddy chefs and owners taking us all for a ride.

Edited February 3, 2005 by RooStew (log)

[appreciator]

I welcome the opinions of people like transfattyacid.  What the hell is wrong with sharing your true feelings on an establishment??

Constructive critisism about an topic is always valid,egullet member or not.  'Sean is one of our own??!? Does he deserve different treatment to a non egullet member?

This is getting ridiculous. Write what you want people, about the thing we have all gathered to celebrate, good food. Ever think, some of these establishments might choose to pick up there game after getting a bad review?  It would be about time, I am getting sick and tired of being ripped off by shoddy chefs and owners taking us all for a ride.

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I totally believe that we should be able to say what we want here.... as long as we use some form of common decency and abide by egullet "rules".

I am quite baffled (and somewhat distressed, frankly) that some people may now feel that we all have to be nicey, nice. I bet you dollars to donuts there will be people very reluctant to post any kind of criticism around here.... at least for the next while.

For the life of me, I really can't think of any "negative review" I've read here that has been off the mark in terms of reporting things in a fair manner. And, if that is the case, then why the uproar about it? It's certainly not the first time but..... I just don't get it........

Edited February 3, 2005 by appreciator (log)

[Andrew Morrison]

Besides, how influential are opinions posted on eGullet anyway? I posted a pretty negative DOV of Bis Moreno - it seems hard to believe that their business will suffer because of that.

You'd be incredibly surprised. I have the feeling that eGullet (the Vancouver chapter) has it's finger on the pulse of dining in Vancouver, more so than the glossies and the print press. If I owned a restaurant, was a consultant, or cared about the industry, i'd be cruising these boards for smelt like a shark.

Ahhh, it's nice to have the apron off.

Edited February 3, 2005 by editor@waiterblog (log)