Working in the UK

[Kit]

I have recently started to entertain the idea of working in the UK. I'm from the US and in the pastry business. I found a company that does all the bother of getting you the job, appropriate visa, health insurance and whatnot and seems to deal mostly in setting people up in pretty fancy hotels. Does anyone on here know what it's like to work in a UK hotel kitchen? Anything special I should know?

[Kit]

I think I forgot some info. I have never been outside of the US for work or pleasure. I just never got around to it yet. Also, this would be far from my first job. I've been in pastry for about 9 years now. I went to school, but I've spent more time working in high end bakeries and restaurants than I spent there by far. I expect to be in a fairly large city if not London but I don't know in what region. Like I said, I'm just seeing if anyone knows not so much about techincal things (like how taxes work and whatnot) but more about quirks of UK kitchen culture or things to watch out for, or just anything they think I might need to know. Thanks.

[Paula Jonvik]

Dear Kit:

EVERYTHING! I found that everything was different.

First of all, they have split shifts at most good places... Begin in AM; Lunch service; Break for 2 to 3 hours in afternoon; Return and complete dinner service.

Better brush up on your metric and celsius... It makes a huge difference in the measurement and baking of items. Some recipes are in metric and some imperial, which are different from each other, depending upon the particular recipe/formula. Conversions can be a challenge.

The quality of the dairy products- i.e. butter, eggs milk and especially cream are far superior to anything we have available here! Beautiful stuff! They have several different creams and the viscosity gradually increases, making the selection of the proper cream for the recipe or formula essential! They have access to lovely ingredients that we seldom see in the states. A wonderful assortment of chocolates and apples, cheeses and fish/shellfish, salts and truffles that make a person weak in the knees! (Although, I stand by Dungeness crab personally as the finest crab in the world.) ;)

If you have your own tools... watch them like a hawk! Very small offset pastry spatulas are at a premium there... They have never seen a pastry blender, and I never, ever saw an instant read thermometer in use there...

How is your ear for dialect and foreign languages? I found it challenging to understand 'exactly' what was said due to the variety of languages and dialects in a UK kitchen. There are a wide variety of nationalities in UK hospitality and catering, and we don't always speak the same language, have different meanings and definitions for things, so just pay attention and ask for clairification if you aren't certain about something. Methods for tasks vary from kitchen to kitchen.

Most of the people I worked with were wonderful, and then, there were a couple that disgusted me.

Safe food handling and kitchen sanitation issues are paramount to me, and you might find that some of the junior staff haven't got a clue about this issue, due to the fact they haven't been trained in that area properly, and are arriving from outside the UK and work for peanuts.

There can be a distinct degree of intolerance with immigrants and it can surface as downright offensive language and treatment. Watch the floors outside the kitchen! Seems to be a distinct lack of understanding about signage that can result in a nasty fall...

On a non-culinary note, the legal boundries that are firmly in place in most top American kitchens regarding sexual content among other things, are different in the UK. Use your common sense and don't slip into inappropriate behavior mode.

If you are ever injured, be sure to have it documented in the accident book and don't let them cheat you out of what them term 'statutory sick pay', like our industrial accident pay. Have good medical coverage that extends to UK, otherwise you could end up with a course in state run health... in other words COVER YUR ASS!

That said, I worked with some very taleted professionals and learned loads from them! Afternoon tea was a favorite of mine, with the endless assortment of pastries, cakes, cookies (biscuits), chocolates and candies. Plated 'puddings' (desserts), in top establishments are finer than most in America! They have a real knack for them, and most every one includes the componant of freshly made ice cream or sorbet.

I'd be interested to know the name of the company who obtained your work visa for you? Also the cost? Might you share that?

It is ghastly expensive to live in the UK, so be prepared. If you think things are expensive here, just wait! Try not to let your jaw hit the floor when you make the conversion from dollars to pounds!

Good Luck to you fellow eGulleteer!

Sincerely,

Paula Jonvik

[kitwilliams]

If you have your own tools... watch them like a hawk! Very small offset pastry spatulas are at a premium there...

So funny you should mention that, Paula. I did a stage at a bakery in London and whipped out my small offset spatula to a chorus of guffaws. None of the staff had seen one and couldn't imagine it would be of any use. When I left, they were all begging me for it so, next trip over, I brought them back as gifts!

And ahhhh, the cream. All the dairy products.

And the beautiful, pink forced rhubarb. As Paula said, you'll be thrilled with the quality and variety of produce available there.

Aside from all that, when I first saw your post, Kit, I did a double-take as a few years ago (more than a few), I was moving to the UK, my background is in pastry and my name is Kit. It sounded as if I had written it! But it was long before egullet ever existed. And it was before I moved over to the pastry biz. I wish egullet had been around then. I hope you get lots of useful advice and, when you get over there, I hope you post frequently about your experiences! It's my favorite country, for a myriad of reasons. I'm envious (except at the thought of the current exchange rate -- yikes!)

Good luck!

[culinary bear]

Make sure you possess a sense of humour - you will need it.

At the moment I'm running the pastry section at a 4* hotel restaurant in manchester with nearly 200 rooms. It's, erm, fun. :)

[FaustianBargain]

forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is an offset pastry spatula?

[Kit]

Better brush up on your metric and celsius

Metric I can do. I think I can work in the *other* measurements as long as they don't make me convert too often.

How is your ear for dialect and freign languages?

Well, sometimes better, sometimes worse... I'm most worried about the British themselves really. I've worked with French, Spanish, Flemish, and English all spoken in the same kitchen (some, like Spanish, I understand more than say, Flemish) but I'm really worried about the different English dialect the British speak. It sounds so much like what I'm used to hearing but I know it's not, really.

The quality of the dairy products- i.e. butter, eggs milk and especially cream are far superior to anything we have available here!

Woot!

On a non-culinary note, the legal boundries that are firmly in place in most top American kitchens regarding sexual content among other things, are different in the UK.

I'm a woman, should I be worried, or am I more protected there?

I'd be interested to know the name of the company who obtained your work visa for you? Also the cost? Might you share that?

I haven't signed up yet, I've got at least a year before I can afford to move anywhere, if not more. The company is HRC International. They've got all sorts of info on thier website. (www.hrc-international.com) I'm checking into them though... no way am I going to hand over the cash before I find out if they're a scam. The reason I'm posting now is because I like to know as many facts about the big things I do before I do them.

(except at the thought of the current exchange rate -- yikes!)

Actually, I'm looking foward to that... I figure coming *back* I'll benefit!

It is ghastly expensive to live in the UK, so be prepared.

Heh, I'm from NJ, how much more expensive could it be?

Thank you so much for sharing... This only makes me more excited. It'll be quite a few months before I get going, but man, I can't wait! I'll bring over a laptop and post many many times.

[culinary bear]

forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is an offset pastry spatula?

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One of these, also available in dinky version as one of these.

They're handy in that you can spread batters and other things on a baking sheet (with rims) - the offset step allows you to do this without the blade of the spatula hitting against the rims of the baking sheets. Some people, myself included, find that you gain more control over the base of the spatula blade when it's offset.

The small ones are very handy for intricate pastry work, especially placing small items on cakes, smoothing the tops of small set items, levelling small moulds, etc.

edit : in the UK, what you know as a spatula is called a palette knife.

Edited January 24, 2005 by culinary bear (log)

[FaustianBargain]

One of these, also available in dinky version as one of these.

Ahh..thanks.

[Paula Jonvik]

EXPENSIVE!!!

N.J. to the third power!!!

I live in Seattle and it is one of the most expensive areas to live in the US. But London.... WHEW!!!!

The outskirts are bad too. But do-able.

Paula

[Kit]

I was going to bring over about 1,500 pounds for starter money... (to get an apartment, etc. on top of what I need to get over there) Is that a good start?

[Paula Jonvik]

Kit:

Depends? Depends upon the going rate for the area you end up in... Housing is at a *%$@#! premium there... Then there is the utilities, unless they are included in the place you end up with. try to swing a deal that way...

You can get a cheap pay as you go mobile phone from communications over there. No contract. Easy. Shop around and ask others you meet for their take on that.

Don't bother to take anything that plugs in there, i.e. hairdryer, emersion blender, radio, or the like- wrong voltage and the plugs are different, as you might have heard. Easier to purchase them there.

Transportation is v. expensive. Tubes, trains, cabs, buses all extremely expensive and crowded. Nevermind about owning a car. How long are you planning on being there? Might want to check into some train passes that you can buy in advance with unlimited travel. Something like Discover Britain, I can't remember the name now, but ask around.

Food and drink a premium. Hope you don't have a nasty habit like me (smoker) 'cause you'll be sticker shocked there too!

You'll need a couple of dishes, pots pans, tools... I always ship my culinary tools (knives) ahead via UPS. No post 911 hassles at the airport, or getting there and finding your baggage has been gone through and robbed of any and all goodies!

All in all you should have a great time and may find that my points are totally out of line, but having been there several times, I find it just keeps getting more expensive for everything and the availability of housing is shrinking.

Take plenty of sweaters (jumpers) as even in the summer, things there seem damp to me? And a damn good pair of work shoes!

Still, I love the UK. Evidently, so do a lot of others from over the globe, you'll find your niche and have a great time!!!

P

[MobyP]

Rents in London are expensive these days - from 10-25% up on a couple of years ago - as people are waiting out the housing boom.

[confiseur]

Kit.........London as others have mentioned is horrendously expensive.........the salarys for pc's are generally poor here with very rare exceptions ,over 30k and you will need to be very strong in sugar and chocolate.......there are some very good pastry people indeed in the UK but there is practically no appreciation of there work......the cult of the chef is very strong here and Jo Public wants to turn on the tv and see Gordon,Gary or Heston do yet another version of tarte-tatin. We are still recognition wise 30 years behind France , Belgium or Switzerland. If you are looking for a starting position try Harrods where the Exec. pc is a US national, a top craftsman and is always looking for staff.

[Kit]

Again, thanks to everyone for the advice. Don't think I'm not writing it down.

Another question I have... How are the chefs over there? Are they really old-school style (hard-ass, screamy etc.) or a little more laid back?

[Basildog]

Chefs is chefs is Chefs.

Some are inspiring ,some are wankers.Same the world over.

Best of luck

[SamanthaF]

Chefs is chefs is Chefs.

Some are inspiring ,some are wankers.Same the world over.

Best of luck

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Which is you Bas?

[Basildog]

I couldn't possibly comment.

It does remind me of a story an old Head Chef of mine told me.He was a lowly commis at the Savoy, and after a particulaly appalling service, the Head Chef shouts to the brigade,"Right you c***s,line up here!".He then picks out one chef, with the words,"Not you, you have a line on your own, you are a Super C***"

Makes me laugh anyway

[FaustianBargain]

Kit, they are just messing with you.

(NOT)...

(YEA)...

(NOT)...

(OH YEA)...

I couldn't possibly comment.

It does remind me of a story an old Head Chef of mine told me.He was a lowly commis at the Savoy, and after a particulaly appalling service, the Head Chef shouts to the brigade,"Right you c***s,line up here!".He then picks out one chef, with the words,"Not you, you have a line on your own, you are a Super C***"

Makes me laugh anyway

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[d.hawksworth]

you just have to be very focused...only work for very talented people. Laid back isn't really a quality most chef's have in London.

DH