Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Fried Corn


Holly Moore

Recommended Posts

At Sylvan Park, a pleasant meat & three eatery in Nashville they serve fried corn as one of the threes on Tuesdays and creamed corn as one of the threes on Wednesdays. The thing is, it's the exact same corn. I asked them about this. They agreed it was the same style corn both evenings - kernels of corn with some water and starch added. And no, they didn't know why it was called different names on different days.

What peaked my curiosity in the first place was the term "fried corn." I hadn't come across it before. Is this a typical meat and three dish, and is it indeed the same as southern style creamed corn? If not, how is it prepared?

While I'm at it, why is it "and three" and not "and two?" My theory is that with money being so tight in many rural regions, prices had to be kept low, meaning smaller portions of "meat." To balance out the plate and fill up the customers, places took to offering three vegetables instead of the more miserly two.

Holly Moore

"I eat, therefore I am."

HollyEats.Com

Twitter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I'm at it, why is it "and three" and not "and two?"  My theory is that with money being so tight in many rural regions, prices had to be kept low, meaning smaller portions of "meat."  To balance out the plate and fill up the customers, places took to offering three vegetables instead of the more miserly two.

Uh, no. Serving lots of vegetables (or all vegetables) on restaurant plates simply reflects the rural diet, whether at home or in a restaurant (which is a poor approximation of home cooking in any case).

A better question would be "why three and not four?" Well, because the long "e" in meat and the long "e" in three sound nice together.

Can you pee in the ocean?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Uh, no. Serving lots of vegetables (or all vegetables) on restaurant plates simply reflects the rural diet...

That's right....the meat and three thing got its start in households that had access to a garden. There were always fresh vegetables. Lots of them. And you were expected to eat them. Everyone had to do their part.

Like at my grandmother's place. We always had meat and three. The restaurants just took it from there.

Edited by Jaymes (log)

I don't understand why rappers have to hunch over while they stomp around the stage hollering.  It hurts my back to watch them. On the other hand, I've been thinking that perhaps I should start a rap group here at the Old Folks' Home.  Most of us already walk like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I remember of my childhood visits to Georgia (my extended family is all there), the options at many inexpensive local restaurants was either "Meat and Three" or Four Vegetable Sides (I don't remember what the "technical" name for this was).

As I child, I always chose the four vegetables because so many of them were vegetables that were absolutely transformed by the copious amount of meat and/or dairy flavorings.

My favorites were fried okra and macaroni & cheese ( wait - how is this a vegetable?).

Robin Tyler McWaters

Link to comment
Share on other sites

mac and cheese is not a vegetable? Oh no, life is so bittersweet sometimes.

It is good to be a BBQ Judge.  And now it is even gooder to be a Steak Cookoff Association Judge.  Life just got even better.  Woo Hoo!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, let's just clear this up once and for all: nobody, not even my fellow ignorant southerners, and most certainly nobody who ever ate out of a garden, has ever considered either macaroni and cheese or Jello a vegetable. Or fruit. Or whatever.

But they do consider both of them to be "sides", and when a person says "meat and three" he means "three sides", not "three vegetables". True, vegetable plates are not necessarily comprised solely of vegetables. But then vegetarians don't just eat vegetables, do they?

One of the reasons that vegetable-based dishes from the south often contain significant amounts of dairy or meat is because they are eaten instead of meat, not alongside it.

Can you pee in the ocean?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Therese - Now that I think about, I agree completely.

I think my confusion comes from my family's weekly "Vegetable Night" dinner. It usually comprised about 4 different vegetable-based dishes ( but meat and dairy were often elements of at least one or two of those dishes). A sample menu would be: green salad with avocado and fresh tomatoes, corn on the cob, baked zucchini with tomato, basil and mozzerella, and lima beans (with the requisite hamhock).

I guess "Vegetable Night" just sounded better than "Sides night."

Robin Tyler McWaters

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You kidding me, Therese?!

In the South, Mac 'n' Cheese is totally a vegetable!

The Meat 'n' Three I go to most often is Monell's, simply because they have a small outlet (Monells Express) about five blocks from my house. Their skillet fried chicken is the best. Their corn pudding, although gluey, is really quite delicious.

But they offer both a meat 'n' two and a meat 'n' three. I think most places do around here.

Don Moore

Nashville, TN

Peace on Earth

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What peaked my curiosity in the first place was the term "fried corn."  I hadn't come across it before.  Is this a typical meat and three dish, and is it indeed the same as southern style creamed corn?  If not, how is it prepared?

Fried corn is a completely different dish than creamed corn. It is really more sauteed than fried but since it is done in a black iron skillet, I think this is how it got its name. You have to have fresh corn to fry it.

Around here a white (Silver Queen) corn is the first choice to fry. To prepare the corn you must "milk" it first. Take a de-silked ear of corn, stand it on its stalk end and cut down the ear removing about 1/2 to 2/3 of each kernel turning the ear as you complete a cut. Using the back of the knife scrape the ear from bottom to top to release the liquid (milk) inside each kernel. This makes a mess but is vital to the preparation of the dish.

In a large black iron skillet melt some bacon grease to just below the smoking point, add the corn with its liquid and simmer until "al dente" . Depending on the amount of lliquid you may need to add some water to the pan during the cooking process. You can also add some sugar depending on the sweetness of the corn.

Creamed corn can be done with older corn as you are adding milk or cream to the mixture and the kernels are more the whole kernel than fried corn. You will see people at the market take an ear of corn and pierce a kernel with a fingernail to see how much liquid is in the kernel prior to buying the ear for fried corn.

I agree with the "sides" interpretation above. In most places it is a meat & three or 4 sides.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

therese, you are right, I must be more serious. And aren't there some others that are included in that three that aren't specifically vegetable. One important fact is that all of those three options must be cooked until mushy. I have bad memories of green beans and new potatos and cabbage just cooked to death. That is why I do not favor that type of meal any longer.

And dlc, that is exactly how my grandmother made her fried corn. It does not taste anything like creamed corn. And she ususally did not make it with the first corn out of the field, but later as the corn was older. From experience, the cast Iron skillet is essential because of the flavor. Al-clad just will not work nor any other modern shiney or adonized metal.

It is good to be a BBQ Judge.  And now it is even gooder to be a Steak Cookoff Association Judge.  Life just got even better.  Woo Hoo!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mmmmmm...........fried corn.dlc's recipe is the one I use. And a little ole church lady, Carrie Bridges, who's 97 and on a cruise right now, gave me a good tip. You stand that ear of corn up on an angel food cake pan. Makes it easier to cut, saves all your scrapin's, and helps a lot if you get sore hands, like I do. I'd have to admit that my cake pan gets far more work for this reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been told that frying corn was a technique for making field corn palatable, back in the days when slaves/poor Southerners relied on field produce for food. Creamed corn, however, is a more delicate dish made from the kernels and juice scrapings from young sweet corn, AKA green corn.

Field corn is still sometimes sold in farm stands, as I sadly discovered when I bought some Trucker's Favorite by accident when I lived in Tennessee.

Too bad Hap Towne's is gone from Nashville. I took it as quite a compliment when Hap told me that my restaurant, far removed from a meat and three, was one of HIS favorite places to dine.

Ruth Dondanville aka "ruthcooks"

“Are you making a statement, or are you making dinner?” Mario Batali

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my experience, the distinction between creamed corn and fried corn is that with creamed corn, you cut the tops off the kernels and "milk" the ears by scraping them to get the juice. I add milk or cream and then cook it down until it thickens. (Imagine my girlish delight when I realized one day that it thickens because of the natural cornstarch in the kernels -- you could almost hear the light bulb over my head bumping against the ceiling.) Adding milk is good but isn't necessary -- my mother remembers that during the Depression, her mother usually added water because she couldn't spare milk.

Fried corn is cut off closer to the cob, more like whole kernels, and is tossed in a hot skillet with a little fat. I seem to recall a story in the Washington Post last year on frying corn to increase the corn flavor in sweet corn.

Creamed corn was one of my mother's standards and it's still on my table, but only in the summer when the corn is juicy. Creamed corn on a plate with sliced tomatoes topped with a dab of mayonnaise -- that just says "summer" to me.

Kathleen Purvis, food editor, The Charlotte (NC) Observer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Field corn is still sometimes sold in farm stands, as I sadly discovered when I bought some Trucker's Favorite by accident when I lived in Tennessee.

When I was a kid, I lived for a time on a farm in Nebraska. The neighbors grew field corn right up to our back fence. They told us we could eat all we wanted and Mom would get the pot boiling and then send us kids racing to pick the corn and see who could bring it back the fastest. There are a great many folks who prefer field corn to the genetically-engineered, overly-sweet stuff you buy today.

I don't understand why rappers have to hunch over while they stomp around the stage hollering.  It hurts my back to watch them. On the other hand, I've been thinking that perhaps I should start a rap group here at the Old Folks' Home.  Most of us already walk like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the "meat and three" issue, here's a theory, Holly: I think it means you get a meat, two sides and a piece of bread (usually cornbread or roll). So you get a meat and three other things on the plate. Most of the ones I know let you get three vegetables if you want, but you pay extra.

On the macaroni and cheese issue, I'd agree that it's usually a side dish and is almost always on a plate that has a meat. But here's an interesting side note to chew over:

I was asked to speak to several classes of 8th graders in November for a career day. Since Thanksgiving was so close, I illustrated what I do by quizzing them about what their families serve at Thanksgiving and how we could use those menus to talk about family background and tradition.

Macaroni & cheese became a topic of discussion in every class. Almost all of the African-American students included it as an important part of the Thanksgiving menu. Not only did none of the white students list it, most voiced surprise to hear it used as a side dish, not as a main course.

Somebody ought to teach an academic course on macaroni & cheese.

Kathleen Purvis, food editor, The Charlotte (NC) Observer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are so right Jaymes. I look high and low every year to find just plain old field corn. If I am lucky enough to find it, I buy all I can and put it up.

If you can't act fit to eat like folks, you can just set here and eat in the kitchen - Calpurnia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On the "meat and three" issue, here's a theory, Holly: I think it means you get a meat, two sides and a piece of bread (usually cornbread or roll). So you get a meat and three other things on the plate. Most of the ones I know let you get three vegetables if you want, but you pay extra.

On the macaroni and cheese issue, I'd agree that it's usually a side dish and is almost always on a plate that has a meat. But here's an interesting side note to chew over:

I was asked to speak to several classes of 8th graders in November for a career day. Since Thanksgiving was so close, I illustrated what I do by quizzing them about what their families serve at Thanksgiving and how we could use those menus to talk about family background and tradition.

Macaroni & cheese became a topic of discussion in every class. Almost all of the African-American students included it as an important part of the Thanksgiving menu. Not only did none of the white students list it, most voiced surprise to hear it used as a side dish, not as a main course.

Somebody ought to teach an academic course on macaroni & cheese.

Many white families in Alabama include macaroni and cheese with Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners. Potato salad too. As a "damn yankee" I still don't understand it, even after 20 years of living down here. Sometimes the menu looks more like a picnic than a sit-down dinner. The family I married into feels cheated if someone forgets to bring the macaroni or the tater salad to the family get-together. Me? I have to bring my own turnips and bread dressing (I don't care for cornbread dressing) to the meal. I always get suspicious looks.

As for "meat and three"......we have many places around here (north Alabama) that also go with a "meat and two". And many include sweet tea with the plate lunch. Most of these places seem to do land office business from around 10am to 1pm.

Dave

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
Okay, let's just clear this up once and for all: nobody, not even my fellow ignorant southerners, and most certainly nobody who ever ate out of a garden, has ever considered either macaroni and cheese or Jello a vegetable. Or fruit. Or whatever.

But they do consider both of them to be "sides", and when a person says "meat and three" he means "three sides", not "three vegetables".

Point well taken but when it comes to eating out in a Southern "meat and three" restaurant, a northeastern soul food place or even the Cracker Barrel (yes I have been there!) it's not unusual to see all the various sides listed under the menu heading of "Vegetables". That includes various forms of potatoes and rice, stuffing, mac 'n cheese... even some stuff that has meat in it!

I could almost become a vegetarian with a Vegetables category like that :laugh:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

hmmm..if the fried corn tastes liek the creamed corn - the chef doesn't know how to prepare fried corn.

dlc's method is abotu right - except i learned to add finely chopped onion to the grease (or butter) and soften them up first before adding the corn. and plenty of cracked black pepper for flavor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hmmm..if the fried corn tastes liek the creamed corn - the chef doesn't know how to prepare fried corn.

dlc's method is abotu right - except i learned to add finely chopped onion to the grease (or butter) and soften them up first before adding the corn.  and plenty of cracked black pepper for flavor.

My granny used the oil left over from the bacon she fried at breakfast. We added butter at the table if we wanted that flavor.

It is good to be a BBQ Judge.  And now it is even gooder to be a Steak Cookoff Association Judge.  Life just got even better.  Woo Hoo!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

N-E-V-E-R heard of it...have had lots of fried grits...

we would butter up those grits also.

It is good to be a BBQ Judge.  And now it is even gooder to be a Steak Cookoff Association Judge.  Life just got even better.  Woo Hoo!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

haven't had fried grits in years...gonna have 'em tonight, though...we used to have something called "Beaten Biscuits"...but you have to have a special two roller press to run the dough through...someone inherited the machine from my grandmother...wasn't me & I can't remember who got it...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...