Thai Cooking at Home, 2005 - 2006

[SuzanneW]

Jumping in here -- I just found this thread (don't spend a lot of time on this site), and am completely thrilled. I was wondering if my Thai cooking phase might fade, but you all have me completely invigorated. I get recipes from a mix of sources -- plenty from HSSS -- for example, gai pad gaprow is a weeknight staple -- and sometimes from David Thompson, and others from recipes from my Chiang Mai cooking class, especially for my curry pastes.

This weekend, I am craving a basic pad see ew, and I was wondering if anyone could solve my stir-fried noodle problem. I can't seem to make any rice noodle stir-fry (usually raad na, which in HSSS is that "favorite noodles with gravy" or something like that, or pad see ew) without the noodles glomming together into one big whole cake. This is true no matter how quickly I stir them, or whether or not they were coated with soy sauce or something beforehand. Maybe I'm not using enough oil (which is too bad, because it already seems like plenty)? Wok not hot enough? Can freshness of the noodles (these are dry noodles soaked) matter? And is there any way to get that fantastic smoky-wok flavor I associate with a great fried noodle dish at home? Just wondering if any one else has had the same problem, and how they solve it.

Please keep posting about your luck with recipes--I'll do the same (kitchen all upside down from a very modest renovation, and I've been away in Africa for a month, so it may take a while before I get ambitious)--but do know that others are reading and learning.

And Austin--love the blog, can't wait to read more.

[Austin]

Have you tried frying smaller portions? For example, rather than frying enough noodles for three people (or whatever) at once, divide it into three portions and fry them individually. This is what they do at shops here.

Austin

[SuzanneW]

Have you tried frying smaller portions? For example, rather than frying enough noodles for three people (or whatever) at once, divide it into three portions and fry them individually. This is what they do at shops here.

Austin

←

Nope, haven't tried that but I will.

My thinking is that maybe my wok is just not as hot as it should be when I do this, and the noodles sort of "bake" together for a few seconds. Don't know. I'll see what happens this weekend.

[C. sapidus]

Tonight we made Grilled Chicken with Hot and Sweet Dipping Sauce (gai yang, ping gai) from Hot, Sour, Salty, Sweet. It was simple and tasty, and I liked the dipping sauce a lot. I will definitely use the Peppercorn-Coriander Root marinade again. I cooked the chicken in the wok rather than on the grill, mostly out of laziness.

For accompaniment, we had jasmine rice and Spicy Cucumber Salad (layout huanggua). The cucumber salad wasn't bad, but the dinner was overloaded with sweet vinegary dressings. This was the first time I had used Sichuan peppercorns, and I enjoyed the numbing-mouthwatering sensation that persisted for some time after the meal.

Suzanne: I agree with Austin about stir-frying in smaller batches. Even with a relatively high-BTU burner, I have had better results if I avoid overloading the wok. Good luck, and please report on your results.

Bruce

[SuzanneW]

Bruce, how did you do the gai yang in the wok? I can't grill outside (no outdoor access in my apartment) and have a lousy broiler, so I have only made gai yang when at the beach or when I have access to a grill. Non-grilling is never the same, but if you found it worked well anyway, I'll give it a try.

I agree the HSSS peppercorn-coriander root marinade is excellent--I like that it is very tasty, but not with any particularly overpowering flavor. Once I had to use all cilantro stems because the coriander roots I had frozen went putrid in the thawing, and in some ways it was actually better. I've used it with a sweet-sour dipping sauce from an issue of Saveur -- I may try to find it, since it was great.

Also, experts: Last month, I froze a good amount of Nittaya red curry paste without cooking it first. I was lazy. Will it still be any good?

Off to get the greens for pad see ew. Will report back.

[C. sapidus]

Suzanne: I just heated up the wok until it was very hot and stir-fried the marinated chicken in a little peanut oil. The marinade stuck a bit, but the flavor was good. We will make the recipe on the grill this week for comparison.

Please do report on the pad see ew.

Bruce

[SuzanneW]

Sunday's pad see ew went better than before, but still needs some work. I had to use a few substitutions since I didn't quite plan right: used broccoli rabe instead of Chinese broccoli (good substitute), and had to use thinner rice noodles, like you'd use for pad thai, since I was mistaken in my belief that my pantry held wide noodles. It was also the first dish made on my new stove, and I was using a tiny burner that made it hard to heat up the wok.

I tried to keep the wok less crowded to prevent noodles from sticking, so after stir frying half the garlic and the meat (some marinated chicken) and rabe, I took them out and stir fried the noodles in batches, with some sauce, then added it all back together. It definitely worked better, but they got mushy, probably because I cooked them too long. After mixing the whole thing, added the eggs. Served with some fish sauce w/ chilies and sugared vinegar sauce with chilies.

Very tasty flavor and the perfect weekend brunch dish for me, but it still does not have that wok-charred taste I associate with good pad see ew. Next time: a different burner and less smushing of the noodles, and maybe letting them sit and sizzle a moment to get some charredness off of the wok.

[fodgycakes]

I love pad see ew but my sauce needs work. I suspect it is because I don't know if I have the right soy sauce. I went to a large Asian market and they had a whole aisle of soy sauces but none specifically said sweet soy sauce. What are you using in your pad see ew sauce, Suzanne?

I might add some sugar to my chiles in vinegar, the chiles I used are so potent, I can barely handle a tiny millimeter of pepper.

[peanutgirl]

Thai inspired dinner tonight.

prik nam pla

Fried tofu with hot sesame oil, soy, scallions & cilantro for vegetarian child

Very blurry cucumber salad from HSSS:

Massamun Beef Curry from Crying Tiger... with rice, not pictured

Plain steamed snow peas:

Fresh fruit for dessert

I really want / need a new camera !

[Meez]

Been meaning to get over here forever. It's easy to get stalled in the Dinner, Charcuterie, and Regrettable threads. Anyway, I'm trying to do more with Thai this summer; here are some recent meals.

Beef salad

Thai "bolognese"

This is really just a pad thai type thing with some pork simmered in coconut milk, curry paste, and wine, as in a bolognese. It gets really tasty. There's probably a Thai name for this sort of thing, but I like the Italian crossover.

Also, can anyone (Austin?) tell me what this label says, what it is and what exactly it's used for?

The whole name is NUOC MAU DUA BEN TRE

The English part says "condensed coconut," and I gather that's what NUOC MAU means. I've been putting it into sauces and things willy-nilly. It has a really interesting flavor.

[fodgycakes]

Meez, that is a Vietnamese label. My family is Vietnamese but I was born in the U.S. and years of American schooling and little use of Vietnamese has left me very rusty so I can't make much sense of the first part of the description. However, here's what I can tell.. "nuoc mau" means caramel syrup. The common Vietnamese braised dish, "thit kho," uses a caramel syrup for color and flavor (nuoc mau literally means water color). Dua means coconut. So I'm guessing it's a caramel syrup made with coconut and not just sugar.

Usually when I make thit kho, the main flavor comes from just plain caramel syrup and a combination of fish sauce and soy sauce. A common variant is to add some coconut water, so I imagine that sauce is made for a shortcut version of that.

The instructions say to use it for braising, marinating, and grilling/roasting, using 1-5 teaspoons mixed thoroughly into your ingredients.

If you're curious what that first part says, I can ask my mother.

[Austin]

Meez: The beef salad looks great, and yes, as you've been told, that's Vietnamese, a language I am not familar with!

[Susan in FL]

Thai inspired dinner tonight. . . .

Awesome. Please keep posting about your Thai inspired dinners.

Meez, I was hoping to see you over here on this topic. I hope you will keep us posted on all your Thai cooking at home adventures. When you cook Thai or Thai inspired, do you usually follow recipes? When I first started with Thai, I always followed recipes, but the more familiar I became, the more I adapted recipes or improvised. It's great year-round of course, but it's especially good summer food.

[Austin]

Susan: That's a great point, and I totally agree. I have the added advantage of living in Thailand, but I NEVER measure ingredients when making Thai food, except when making certain curry pastes, and I'm pretty sure I've never seen a Thai cook with measuring tools. Especially when seasoning things, I would encourage people to disregard their recipes, and just add ingredients by taste; if you like spicy, add a lot of chilis! If you like sour, then squeeze enough limes until its sour enough for you. Obviously this takes a bit of experience, but I think most people can start cooking this way the second or third time they make a dish.

Austin

[fodgycakes]

I asked my mom for further information and "Ben Tre" is a province in Vietnam known for its good coconut products. That first sentence is basically a talking up of their syrup and how good and pure it is. As mentioned, at home most people just cook sugar and water until it caramelizes. Is there much of a coconut flavor in that bottled syrup?

[peanutgirl]

I would encourage people to disregard their recipes, and just add ingredients by taste; if you like spicy

That's sage advice, except when people disregard the"recipes''... the dishes are no longer authentic right?

Edited May 4, 2006 by peanutgirl (log)

[fodgycakes]

Disregard is probably not the best word, maybe a better way to phrase it is to use the recipe as a guide, not as a formula. Authentic does not mean one exact way. Think of how many different macaroni and cheese recipes there are out there, some degree of modification and even some heavy-handed changes don't necessarily change the essence of the dish. I think when you make ethnic (to yourself) food there's more of a worry about making it inauthentic when the people who do make that food everyday make changes and variations just as you do with the food you're more accustomed to making everyday.

None of the Vietnamese food I have learned to make from my family was set in any sort of recipe, the hardest part for me at first to figure out what I was doing is that almost all of my mom's and grandmother's instructions included the phrase "until it tastes right"

[C. sapidus]

Meez, peanutgirl: traditional or not, those are some tasty-looking meals.

We cooked from HSSS this week. Tonight we had spicy grilled beef salad (neua nam toke) accompanied by coconut rice and phrik nam pla. The mint leaves contrasted wonderfully with the lime juice, fish sauce, meat drippings, scallions, shallots, and chilies. The boys would have preferred basil to mint, though. Anyway, there were no leftovers. My wife made apple crisp for dessert, topped with vanilla ice cream.

The other night I made spicy eggplant (makeua oop). The ingredients (and yes, I realize that chorizo is not traditionally Thai):

The spice paste. For those of you inclined to read too much into things, sometimes a pestle is just a pestle

The eggplant and spice paste hit the pot:

I cooked the eggplant until it was tender but still recognizable. We ate it for lunch at work, so I forgot to take a picture of the finished dish. Several folks attracted by the aroma asked for a taste, though.

Bruce

Edited for clarity and grammar.

Edited May 5, 2006 by C. sapidus (log)

[Austin]

I would encourage people to disregard their recipes, and just add ingredients by taste; if you like spicy

That's sage advice, except when people disregard the"recipes''... the dishes are no longer authentic right?

←

You're misquoting me! Preceding the sentence you quoted I said "Especially when seasoning things, ..." Obviously if you're not familiar with the food, you'll need to follow recipes. But in terms of Thai food, I would encourage people to adjust the the levels of hot, sour, salty and sweet to a degree that they enjoy. Often the cookbooks are really conservative in this aspect.

Bruce: I've never heard of makhuea op. Where does that recipe come from? The nam tok looked nice. It's a NE Thai dish, so if you wanted to be really authentic, you should try with sticky rice and a simple omelette!

Austin

[C. sapidus]

Austin: The recipe for makhuea oop was from Hot, Sour, Salty, Sweet. Oop dishes are steamed without water in a tightly-sealed pot. The authors attribute the dish to the Tai Koen and Shan people of northern Burma.

Thanks for the suggestion on nam tok. Sticky rice and an omelet would be lovely accompaniments.

Bruce

[Austin]

Bruce: I get it now; I originally read it as "op", which means baked in Thai. I am familiar with "oop", having had this dish many times in Mae Hong Son province in northern Thailand, a place where there are many Shan people. In fact, I have a special spice mix I bought there specifially meant to be used with oop, and like to make a version that uses hard-boiled eggs. Oop are similar to Burmese curries, in that they are, as you mentioned, thick rather than watery, use dried spices, and tend to be very, very oily!

This is a very particular dish, and I'm sure that most people in Bangkok have never heard of it.

Austin

[Abra]

I didn't have time to get a picture, but if you've been eyeing the recipe in HSSS that's green tapioca with sweet corn kernels and coconut cream, make it! It's wonderful, and I got lots of praise from my Thai neighbor for the dish. One thing she's taught me, though, that I never see in recipes, is to very lightly salt the coconut cream on top of sweet puddings. Makes worlds of difference.

[SuzanneW]

I love pad see ew but my sauce needs work. I suspect it is because I don't know if I have the right soy sauce. I went to a large Asian market and they had a whole aisle of soy sauces but none specifically said sweet soy sauce. What are you using in your pad see ew sauce, Suzanne?

I might add some sugar to my chiles in vinegar, the chiles I used are so potent, I can barely handle a tiny millimeter of pepper.

←

I used about 2 tablespoons each oyster sauce and light soy sauce, and then about 2 teaspoons sweet soy sauce (maybe more), some sugar and a lot of ground pepper. Next time I'd use just a little bit of oyster so that the soy flavor comes through better. The light soy sauce was the Dragonfly "thin soy sauce" on this page if it works: <http://www.templeofthai.com/food/sauces/thinsoy-5133231037.php>. I've also used

For the dark soy sauce, I used the sweet dark soy sauce, Healthy Boy brand with the green label: <http://www.templeofthai.com/food/sauces/blacksweetsoy-5132222035.php>. There is also the not-as-sweet see ew dam with the yellow label: <http://www.templeofthai.com/food/sauces/blackthicksoy-5132222175.php>. This is what I thought I should use, though the guy in my Thai store said I should use the sweet one.

[Meez]

Many thanks, Michelle. I'm a little embarassed, because I am actually familiar with the structure of Vietnamese and Thai both. I thought it would have a very sweet coconutty flavor, like coconut molasses or something, but it actually has an interesting tang to it, with a lot of depth. I've put it in meatballs and diipping sauces so far.

Susan, yes, I am not cooking from recipes, but definitely with some inspiration. For example, I think there is a picture of a beef salad in Thomas' Thai Cooking that I had in my head, so when I had some leftover flank, I thought aha... A lot of my blog is devoted to exploring this very idea, that with a little knowledge of basic ingredients you can make lots of things easily.

Tonight I made

Thai fried shrimp

There's some fried ginger and pork belly in there too, with some pickled red cabbabe, potato curry, and shredded carrot on the side. Dipping sauce too, not pictured.

[SuzanneW]

Came home achy with a flu, and when that happens, I need this tom jeud (clear soup) with tofu, greens, rice vermicelli and pork/garlic meatballs: <http://gorgeoustown.typepad.com/lex_culinaria/2006/01/clear_soup_with.html>

I added khunchai (aka chinese celery) and generous amounts of ground black pepper, and used regular cabbage sliced very thin. It's extremely quick and easy, and feels fresh, clean and healthy, especially since I try to eat garlic when sick.