Kai

[Mao]

I went to Kai for the 1st time last night and my overall impression was: bland.  The wonderful textural aspects of a great Japanese meal were present, but only at the start of the meal.  A couple of things were brilliant, but most of the meal was unremarkable.  Not surprisingly, the tea was superb--there is a tea store downstairs and that a Japanese tea company owns the restaurant.  My favorite places for kaiseki in the city remain in this order: Sugiyama, Hatsuhana, Kai and Nadaman Hakubai.  Donguri has an omakase offer, but its not kaiseki by name.

The highlights included the first course, which consisted of about 5 to 6 little tastings of mostly seasonal vegetables.  The most memorable of these was a gelatin tomato cake with caviar.  This was art.  Embedded within the gooey cake taste was just about every smell and nuance of tomato that I have in my memory banks.  One of those truly memorable food moments in life where your entire experience with tomatoes passes across your tongue.  There was also some home-smoked duck that was superlative.  The other highlight was the sea bass, which was cooked in a helmet of sea salt and tea and accompanied by a yuzu? sauce (the smoky flavor that typically is an ingredient in Japanese clear broth soup) and mushrooms.   Sea bass should never be served any other way again.  It was very delicate, fleshy and supremely smoky odiferousness.

Other items in the meal were a lily bulb soup that tasted remarkably like Western potato soup, and while fragrant, really had nothing going for it beyond this initial whiff.  I have had excellent lily bulb mouthfulls before at Sugiyama, so this was disappointing.  Sashimi was OK-kampachi, giant clam and one other forgotten item. Soba, which are made on premises, were under-brothed and not particularly special (Sobaya and Honmura An have much better soba).   The final main course of steak with various sautéed veggies was one of the blander versions of this combo I can remember.  There was one other dish with mushrooms and another with bamboo that left no impression.   Desserts were a little piece of slightly dry chocolate cake (intentionally so) and one or two more traditionally Japanese-like desserts with sweet beans/rice.  The hoji cha (burnt rice tea) that went with this was excellent.

So overall probably worth the trip for those one or two memorable moments, but a surprisingly bland and atextural meal to my mind.  Nao Sugiyama has little to fear from the upstart.

[jjijj1]

i'm interested to know of your backround; what you bring culturally to your assesment of kaiseki in nyc, are you Japanese?  How much experience do you have eating japanese food?  I only ask because i would like to know how subjective your experience is when you discuss Japanese dining.  Native Japanese tend to have very different views about Japanese food in the west- even at the highest levels- than Americans.  I am interested in a reliable source of opinion on Japanese food in nyc, do you know of any sources?

[Akiko]

jjijj, are you japanese?  I agree with you Japanese tastebuds are different than most westerners... just as everyone has a preference and is probably influenced by their "food background/upbringing".  

I've seen Mao post on other boards and have always appreciated his views on food regardless of his nationality, as I learn a lot from the amount of detail... although, I'd be interested to know Mao's background just out of curiosity.

jjijj, I'm japanese american, lived in japan for several years and grew up in a very japanese household with a very japanese community around me.  

What are you looking for in New York?  My Japanese friends think that Sugiyama is the closest you will get to Kaiseki in america, I myself am waiting to take my mother there when she comes to visit next month.

I've been to Nadaman for their kaiseki and back a few times for sushi and have been hugely unimpressed.

I haven't been to Kai and on Mao's descriptions have no interest in going.  

I believe those are the three kaiseki places in New York.  Does anyone know of any others?

I can recommend a few in Japan though....  

Best,

Akiko

[cabrales]

Mao -- What did you choose to drink with the described meal, and how would you compare the wine lists (with respect to non-Japanese items) offered by the various kaiseki restaurants?  

[SobaAddict70]

I'd like to chime in here as well

haven't been to Kai and based on Mao's and Grimes' reviews, have no interest in going.  If I wanted Japanese/French fusion, I'd go to Nobu.

plan on taking my partner to Sugiyama sometime next month -- haven't been back in about a year, so that should be a treat.  if memory serves, the last time I was there, we ordered the 12 course kaiseki.  highlights included superlative sashimi, crabs no larger than a fingernail, crispy fried shrimp (ebi) heads, matsutake mushrooms with steamed rice and seaweed...

sheer heaven.  Kai sounds more "down to earth" but that's just my perception

[Mao]

:wow: Gee, I post once.  The thread dies sans response. I have jury duty and the thread explodes behind my back.

There are a slew of random questions, so I will answer by person, in no particular order.

jjijj1:

Basics about me.  White caucasian male who speaks a bit of Japanese (studied for 4 years at the college level) and can communicate about basic topics, including politics. Can read newspaper slowly.  Have spent some time in Japan, including eating there, mostly in Kyoto/Osaka area.  I adore Japanese food, and have enough experience eating here and over there to know what most things should at least taste like.  I eat out at a lot of Japanese places in NYC, and while I am no expert, I know as much about most of the Japanese restauarants in NYC as the Japanese expats I meet at the sushi or kaiseki bar.  I am no authority, but feel fairly comfortable that my opinions are not prismed through an overly romantic lens, are honest and pretty well informed.  I know of no reliable source about Japanese food in NYC other than this and the other nameless board.  If you are looking for the Robert Parker of Japanese food in NYC, then I don't think you will find anyone.  On the whole, Akiko and I have fairly strong and similar opinions, though we have never met.

Akiko:  

Welcome here from the other board.  To my knowledge, there are 4 places that consciously offer a Kaiseki menu in NYC: Sugiyama, Nadaman, Kai and Hatsuhana (the latter displays it prominantly in their menu but does not focus on kaiseki like the others).  I have eaten at every one except Nadaman in the last month, and I have had relatively recent "off" experiences at Sugiyama and Hatsuhana, unfortunately.  Please let me know if you go to Sugiyama, what your impressions are.  I have had historically wonderful meals there, but get the sense that they are not going all out for the best ingredients like they have in the past.  I hope I am wrong and that the night I went was just an evening when things were off, as it would be ashame to lose what is one of my favorite restuarants in NYC.

Cabrales:

I had sake in each case.  I find the quality of the sake is completely random though.  I prefer some brands to others, but a lot of its luck as to how fresh the sake they have on hand is. I have had the same bottle at Sugiyama, and could tell it was fresh and recently purchased one time  The next time I went back and ordered the same, only to find it tasted stale.  As for wine, I don't find that any place has a great or even interesting collection.  Its typically the usual assortment of Cali chard.  You might want to opt for the BYO option, though call ahead.   I am not a wine expert but have had superb Mersaualt's with kaiseki meals, and it really clicked.  On an unrelated note, i made it over to Bouley again on Weds, and had a few of his "on form" dishes.  To die for desserts too.    

Question for everyone else:  

Did anyone go to Sono (the French japanese fusion place) before it closed its doors?  How was it? And has anyone else been to Aki and think its as wonderful as I do? Jamaican Japanese fusion anyone?

[cabrales]

Mao -- Thanks for your response. If you are comfortable responding, were the kaiseki meals you had at various establishments relatively expensive (a very general range would be sufficient, or a qualitative indication)?  

[Mao]

75-160 USD including everything. Expensive, but worth every penny, I think.  Despite my recent spat of poor kaiseki experiences, my ideal meal would be strung together of the memories of individually memorable kaiseki dishes I have had over the last 2 years.

[jjijj1]

Thanks Mao and Akiko for your responses.  About me, I'm a white male, and a professional cook trained in european cuisine.  My conversations with Japanese friends and co-workers who have traditional japanese training(kaiseki) and french as well always seem to lead back to the point that restaurants here in new york fail to produce what one could refer to as an authentic "taste" of traditional japanese food as it is experienced in Japan.  Many times this is considered a result of lack of authentic ingredients; e.g.  quality japanese rice, or the fact that in new york, restaurants are approached with a more buisness-like approach.  I have never had the opportunity to travel abroad so i can't make these comparisons myself.  For example, I mentioned a ramen restaurant (rai rai ken) to a japanese co-worker and said that i thought their broth was good.  He laughed a little and said that there was no place in new york to get ramen that would have "real" ramen taste. I dont know if this is a bit of Japancentricity or not, but he was very adamant on this point.  Now I know enough about broths to know whether or not it was good- it was; the question for him was more about whether it tasted at all like what is available in any number of noodle joints in a major Japanese city.  This is why i was wondering about your opinions of Japanese dining in new york, Mao.  The interest for me is in having the experience of tasting Japanese food in an authentic manner, to have a correct map of flavors from which to refer.  Well, I hope that explains a bit more about my questions, thanks again.

[Liza]

I'll chime in to second the Aki recommendation, but as a diner with no particular history with Japanese or Jamaican cuisine.  I recall a sea urchin mousse with yuzu sauce as if it were a lot less than three months ago.

[ned]

I’ve hunted around the site looking for a long and lauditory thread on Kai but have not found anything. Maybe this will be the beginning of that thread.

Kai is owned by the Itoen tea company and is located above their tea store on Madison Avenue between 68th and 69th streets. The name Kai is short for Kaiseki, a Japanese term that describes an aesthetic of cooking and eating. The word itself means warm stone and refers to the keeping of a warm stone in one’s pocket while eating vegetarian food. Back in the day (maybe even now, I don’t know) Japanese felt that a vegetable-only meal will make the eater feel cold. (Thanks to Chika of Chikalicious for explaining this to me) It is my impression that Kai interprets kaiseki loosely. They serve plenty of fish and meat and have four menus: a five course, eight course, nine course and an a la carte menu. Teas accompany some of the courses. In my five visits, the food, service and portioning has been consistently excellent. At nearly every visit we have eaten the eight course tasting menu. Most recently it went as follows.

For amuses, there was a geleed cube of seaweed and dashi with japanese horseradish, to me interesting because the gelee was cloudy and greenish. This largish (3/4 to an inch square) gelee cube is a signature at Kai. On other visits it has had uni suspended inside with no seaweed. On the plate also was a tiny salad of asparagus in yuzu vinaigrette, edamame in preserved tofu sauce and octopus with a dab of surprising sharp horseradish.

The consommé is a high point in the meal. The broth is incredibly delicate dashi with seaweed and other treats to be discovered inside, topped with a little gold leaf. In the past there has been a wafer-thin slice of yuzu aromatizing the bowl. Most recently the broth contained an intriguing vegetable called Jun Sai. It was probably the Jun Sai that got me sitting down writing this post. It's like nothing I've ever put in my mouth and is kind of hard to describe. It is tiny branches encapsulated in gelatinous something or other, like the seeds in passion fruit but tasting like watermelon or cucumber and with very little sweetness. Light, eerie, like tiny jellyfish plants, they hang in the broth neither floating nor sinking. Jun Sai are harvested from lakes in Japan and are seasonal delicacy. I don’t wonder why.

For sashimi they often serve Japanese mackeral called Aji, also known as horse mackerel. The other day there was a tiny squid that, when bitten into, revealed that she was in a family way. Roe squirted into my mouth, rich and powerfully flavored. My partner in crime found this off-puttingly strong. I thought it was heavenly.

The palate cleanser is a granite that changes all the time but often has shiso and to my palate is usually too sweet. Still, the granite is hand-shaven, a nice touch, and always features a bright contrast of citrus and herb.

The entrees are a all hits. Last fall my favorite was braised beef tongue and seared foie gras with baby brussel sprouts, enoki mushrooms and other vegetables in a light, clear, beef stock-based sauce. Black cod, either cooked in salt crust or steamed, maybe depending the time of year, is the obvious choice on a first visit to Kai. The fish is moist, robust and pure white. In a weird sort of way it reminds me of the cured sea bass they’ve had recently at Russ and Daughters. New on the menu is a dish called “Ayu riverfish meuniere with yuzu vinaigrette”. A contemporary Japanese interpretation of the French classic sole meuniere, it’s very good but I would have liked it better if they’d kept more strictly to source of the inspiration for the dish.

The dessert plate distinguishes itself by avoiding sweetness and fattiness. It is a refreshing end to what is usually a pretty long meal. Sesame panacotta, pure white and very toasty is always on the menu. Also found are green tea cheesecake and red bean gelee.

We always drink the same bottle of wine with this meal: Rudi Pichler’s 2001 Gruner Veltliner for 48 bucks. Seems to me an excellent value. If it isn’t, please don’t anybody tell me. I can’t get enough of this restaurant. They are seldom full and I strongly recommend sitting at their eponymous sushi bar. The the charming chefs working there are mild-mannered, calm and willing to answer all your questions about their rare ingredients and preparations.

Edited May 12, 2004 by ned (log)

[jogoode]

I'm sold!

Kai's Website

[SobaAddict70]

You'll probably want to compare it to Sugiyama as well, JJ.

Soba

[jogoode]

Most recently the broth contained an intriguing vegetable called Jun Sai. It was probably the Jun Sai that got me sitting down writing this post. It's like nothing I've ever put in my mouth and is kind of hard to describe. It is tiny branches encapsulated in gelatinous something or other, like the seeds in passion fruit but tasting like watermelon or cucumber and with very little sweetness. Light, eerie, like tiny jellyfish plants, they hang in the broth neither floating nor sinking. Jun Sai are harvested from lakes in Japan and are seasonal delicacy. I don’t wonder why.

The fact that Kai serves Junsai is exciting. According to Steingarten's The Man Who Ate Everything, it's a springtime delicacy, a pod which in the spring is coated with a gelatinous sheath and eaten primarily for its texture. I've been meaning to try it for a while but haven't been able to find it.

I'm also happy to see ayu on the menu, another springtime food and one that I noticed recently on the menu at Koi, in the East Village.