A year of Italian cooking

[Kevin72]

Mark:

Congratulations on the restaurant! Have you written about that somewhere here on eG?

Pan:

I'm mentally summoning Hathor or Alberto to this thread to answer your pecorino question. I've been using younger pecorinos, and I think one is indeed a Toscano. In the bread I used a mixture of finely grated Sini Fulvi Pecorino Romano and coarsely grated Toscano.

[Adam Balic]

Kevin - you food just looks better and better and it always looked good.

Q: Have just got a copy of "The Splendid Table" by Lynne Rossetto Kasper and are rapidly concluding that it is one of the best cookbooks I have. Have you cooked from it and if so what are your impressions?

[kellytree]

http://www.prezzemoloefinocchio.it/modules...oto.php?lid=364

a pic of what the local cheese bread looks like.

In my area they make it around easter time. -- Which makes sense - Around easter time chickens start laying eggs again (they lay them in the winter too but not as much as spring) and people start making cheese (butcher the lambs for easter dinner and then you get to milk the sheep)

The locals use grated parmigiano - grated pecorino romano ( basically any old hard pecorino will do) and cubes of fresh pecorino.

Here is a typical recipe - in italian - if you really want to make it let me know and I can translate it for you no problem. Or better I can try and find my neighbors recipe which is the bomb!

Basically its 600 gm flour - 8 eggs- 50 grams each of oil and milk - salt and pepper(a lot of pepper!)- 150 grams each of parmigiano and "old" pecorino - 350 grams of fresh pecorino cut in cubes ( some people here use half pecorino fresco and half emmenthal)- 50 grams of yeast ( they are talking about 2 cubes of yeast ---which you buy at the supermercato here) - and finally a package of what would be a mixture of cream of tarter and baking soda (I dont actually know whats in these magic little packets that make your cakes rise)

http://www.marchenet.it/galeazzi/pizza%20al%20formaggio.htm

That sausage with grapes sounds good - I think I'll have to try it soon.

By the way , another "in season" thing right now is Biscotti di Mosto - they are really good - and you can only get them from now until october/november.

Typical products from my area: http://www.parks.it/parco.goladellarossa.frasassi/Epro.html

[Kevin72]

Kevin - you food just looks better and better and it always looked good.

Q: Have just got a copy of "The Splendid Table" by Lynne Rossetto Kasper and are rapidly concluding that it is one of the best cookbooks I have. Have you cooked from it and if so what are your impressions?

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I have and it is. More later . . .

[Adam Balic]

Man, you are such a tease.

Now I think we need to discuss Porchetta. As far as I recall it is common in Tuscany, Umbria and Lazio, but most likely originated in Marche. A basic recipe is a bone pig stuffed with wild fennel and garlic, moistened with white wine. A variation in Tuscany I like is to include corinader seeds and fennel seeds in the stuffing. But, I haven't seen a recipe for Porchetta that includes sausage in the stuffing. Do you know how wide spread this is?

I love Porchetta.

[Kevin72]

Man, you are such a tease.

Now I think we need to discuss Porchetta. As far as I recall it is common in Tuscany, Umbria and Lazio, but most likely originated in Marche. A basic recipe is a bone pig stuffed with wild fennel and garlic, moistened with white wine. A variation in Tuscany I like is to include corinader seeds and fennel seeds in the stuffing. But, I haven't  seen a recipe for Porchetta that includes sausage in the stuffing. Do you know how wide spread this is?

I love Porchetta.

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I'm more and more convinced it is not traditional at all. My first version of this was Mario Batali's recipe which called for a pork loin stuffed with sauteed fennel, fennel fronds, onions, garlic, rosemary, and sausage. No other recipes I've seen since call for sausage, but a few recipes do add minced pancetta or prosciutto. I guess I'm being a bit of a heretic then by sticking to using sausage, but my wife wouldn't have it any other way.

And now having greedily gulped down a hot porchetta sandwich in Rome, I realize one of the great pleasures of the dish is, of course, the burnished, crackling skin and that nice fatty layer right under it. You won't see too many butchers in the U.S. selling loin or any other cut of pork with the skin intact, though. One or two recipes I have direct to to find pork skin, then tie it onto the loin with butcher's twine (and put ample seasoning under the skin and over the loin).

[Kevin72]

http://www.prezzemoloefinocchio.it/modules...oto.php?lid=364

a pic of what the local cheese bread looks like.

In my area they make it around easter time. --  Which makes sense  - Around easter time chickens start laying eggs again (they lay them in the winter too but not as much as spring) and people start making cheese (butcher the lambs for easter dinner and then you get to milk the sheep)

The locals use grated parmigiano - grated pecorino romano ( basically any old hard pecorino will do) and cubes of fresh pecorino.

Here is a typical recipe - in italian - if you really want to make it let me know and I can translate it for you no problem. Or better I can try and find my neighbors recipe which is the bomb!

Basically its 600 gm flour - 8 eggs- 50 grams each of oil and milk - salt and pepper(a lot of pepper!)- 150 grams each of parmigiano and "old" pecorino - 350 grams of fresh pecorino cut in cubes ( some people here use half pecorino fresco and half emmenthal)- 50 grams of yeast ( they are talking about 2 cubes of yeast ---which you buy at the supermercato here) - and finally a package of what would be a mixture of cream of tarter and baking soda (I dont actually know whats in these magic little packets that make your cakes rise)

http://www.marchenet.it/galeazzi/pizza%20al%20formaggio.htm

That sausage with grapes sounds good - I think I'll have to try it soon.

By the way , another "in season" thing right now is Biscotti di Mosto - they are really good - and you can only get them from now until october/november.

Typical products from my area: http://www.parks.it/parco.goladellarossa.frasassi/Epro.html

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The bread is, then, more like a cake, with that baking soda in there? Do you know of a flatbread version?

I'd assume the biscotti are dipped in or made of grape must, then?

That website needs to explain the dishes they're talking about!

[Adam Balic]

What, what, what! No skin on USA pork WTF is that about? Sausage I can deal with, I like sausage and it sounds like a good idea. But no terracotta coloured crisp crackling, busting with crunchy piggy deliciousness is plain wrong - not matter what Noel Coward has to say about it

Any part of the piggy

Is quite alright with me.

Ham from Westphalia, ham from Parma

Ham as lean as the Dalai Lama

Ham from Virginia, ham from York,

Trotters, sausages, hot roast pork.

Crackling crisp for my teeth to grind on

Bacon with or without the rind on

Though humanitarian

I'm not a vegetarian.

I'm neither a crank nor prude nor prig

And though it may sound infra dig

Any part of the darling pig

Is perfectly fine by me.

[Kevin72]

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Gah! Gah! You're killing me. It's only 10 am here and I'm already breaking into my snack stash.

It's a fat/skin-phobic culture here, what can I say? I'm sure in more ethnic butchers you can find skin-on loin, but it's just not at all something looked on as "desirable". Remember, the U.S. once implored Parma prosciutto makers to make a "lean" product with no fat. And our pork has progressively had the fat bred out of it over successive years. Though that's making a turnaround and fatter pork is coming back into vogue.

[Adam Balic]

You need to visit Europe again - Land of Pork Skin Products

Back on topic - aside from porchetta, the Italians don't seem to be so keen on pork skin IMO, sound about right to you?

[fou de Bassan]

Kevin,

I'm coming out of lurkerdom on this thread to tell what an amazing job you are doing! I've followed from the beginning and you've made me aware of the vibrancy of Italian regional cooking.

Bravo! and thanks

[Kevin72]

You need to visit Europe again - Land of Pork Skin Products

Back on topic - aside from porchetta, the Italians don't seem to be so keen on pork skin IMO, sound about right to you?

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Careful with such sweeping generalizations or you'll bring the wrath of Alberto down on you!

Isn't selling pork cuts with the skin on pretty much de rigeur there?

In Emilia-Romagna, I know they often make a snack food of the deep-fried rinds and sell them in butcher shops. In fact I think you'll read about that in Splendid Table (/full circle). Oooh, and let's not forget that cotechino and zampone are made with considerable amounts of pig skin . . .

[Adam Balic]

Dude, there is pig skin and there is 'crispy crackling' (I forgive you for being an Texan and all and not being able to make the distinction). With all due respect to Alberto's wrath, while the cuts of pork may contain skin, they seems to be some effort made to remove it and use it in stews etc, rather then cook it correctly.

I'm sure that there will be regional dishes in Italy. In Burgundy I was in one village that makes a savoury brioche that contains bits of pre-crisped pig skin.

[FoodMan]

Kevin-

It is very sad that we cannot get a decent pork loin with the fat attached to it but write this tip down: Go to your local "Whole Foods" and talk to the “head butcher” or meat manager or whatever he is called. Get his name and ask for him in the future. Ask him for a loin with the fatback intact and he will be happy to save one for you. I got a few pounds of fat back for sausage from there…for free since it is regarded as “trash”. They get the loins and promptly remove the lovely white skin, so getting one with the skin intact should not be a problem.

Elie

[WestOrangeFrank]

Not sure if this belongs in another thread, but please help me out...

I'm about to book a seven night foodie Tuscan trip (near Arezzo). I'm still doing my research, but it looks beautiful.

The trip includes 16 hours Tuscan cooking instruction, trip to a Salami factory, Pecorino and Goat cheese farm, Wine estate for wine tasting and lunch, Olive oil mill and oil tasting. I even got a 30% last minute discount, bringing the price to a nice deal. All meals/wine included. Is there anything I should be cautios of in such a trip? The people involved seemed legit and well organized. The website is also put together well. http://www.italiancookerycourse.com/

After seven nights at the villa, I'm thinking of spending a day for Siena/Florence, then a full day in Venice, then down back down to Rome for a night before heading back to the states.

Thanks for any input,

Frank

[Pan]

Kevin, have you tried getting skin-on pork from your local Chinese butcher?

[kellytree]

The cheese bread is more or less like a salty version of panettone.

[Kevin72]

Kevin-

It is very sad that we cannot get a decent pork loin with the fat attached to it but write this tip down: Go to your local "Whole Foods" and talk to the “head butcher” or meat manager or whatever he is called. Get his name and ask for him in the future. Ask him for a loin with the fatback intact and he will be happy to save one for you. I got a few pounds of fat back for sausage from there…for free since it is regarded as “trash”. They get the loins and promptly remove the lovely white skin, so getting one with the skin intact should not be a problem.

Elie

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All right, now I'm the one incurring wrath from Adam . . . but is that the same as the skin? That's just the fat, right? Isn't that porchetta pic above with the skin on?

[Kevin72]

Kevin,

I'm coming out of lurkerdom on this thread to tell what an amazing job you are doing!  I've followed from the beginning and you've made me aware of the vibrancy of Italian regional cooking.

Bravo! and thanks

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Thanks fou!

[Kevin72]

Kevin, have you tried getting skin-on pork from your local Chinese butcher?

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Spoken like a New Yorker! Like we all have a local Chinese butcher?

Actually though, there is a pretty decent Asian market here in Plano, and I know they sell the skin separate, but I've never seen the whole loin with skin on.

You know what though? All this may be a moot point--my wife's one of those aforementioned fat/skin-o-phobes so all this effort would pass completely unappreciated by her.

[Kevin72]

Not sure if this belongs in another thread, but please help me out...

I'm about to book a seven night foodie Tuscan trip (near Arezzo).  I'm still doing my research, but it looks beautiful.

The trip includes 16 hours Tuscan cooking instruction, trip to a Salami factory, Pecorino and Goat cheese farm, Wine estate for wine tasting and lunch, Olive oil mill and oil tasting.  I even got a 30% last minute discount, bringing the price to a nice deal.  All meals/wine included.  Is there anything I should be cautios of in such a trip?  The people involved seemed legit and well organized.  The website is also put together well.  http://www.italiancookerycourse.com/

After seven nights at the villa, I'm thinking of spending a day for Siena/Florence, then a full day in Venice, then down back down to Rome for a night before heading back to the states.

Thanks for any input,

Frank

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I'm not so up on tours or how to tell if they're legit. Have you done a Google search for their name to see if it comes up in local lawsuits or there's a board dedicated to slamming them?

There's a similar thread where someone's asking about touring Tuscany, and there've been lots of threads on the three areas you're going to. I would caution again that if you plain on using trains to get around, you may want to build travel time into the itinerary and be sure you're getting the most direct line to and from those cities. I'd even cut one of those two out and double up your time there. They deserve more than a day!

[Kevin72]

Nothing screams “soup!” like an unseasonably hot 94F day so time to dig out the big pot and go to town!

One of many identifying factors of Central Italian cooking seems to be a pronounced affinity for legumes: cannellini beans in Tuscany, chickpeas in Lazio, and in Umbria, it’s all about lentils. The lentils of Castelluccio one of Umbria’s most reputable products. Small, pebble-like, and with a distinct, mineral flavor, they are as much an example of terroir as any wine from the region.

Yeah, so we don’t get those here in Dallas. I went with a Spanish kind (pardina). Started with a base of ample garlic, carrots, celery, finely minced salami Toscani, sage, and rosemary. Then I added the lentils to the mix, toasted them a little, and topped off with water and cooked for about an hour. Served with pane pecorino and some tossed salad greens, and drank a bottle of Jesi wine with the meal. Somewhere, it’s getting cooler.

[albiston]

Dude, there is pig skin and there is 'crispy crackling' (I forgive you for being an Texan and all and not being able to make the distinction). With all due respect to Alberto's wrath, while the cuts of pork may contain skin, they seems to be some effort made to remove it and use it in stews etc, rather then cook it correctly.

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Adam,

definitely with you on this one, but I fear the real reason why we don't have crispy cracklings is that we lack the beer-making history other countires have. Where you have cracklings you need a nice beer, an ale possibly, to go with that. Unless, maybe, you're an Scotsman... in that case no beer needed and dip those cracklings in batter beforehand .

[hathor]

Ciao tutti.

Pecorino: yeah, we have it. Its almost like a catch all name for cheese in my part of Umbria. I'm exaggerating, but the cheese man at the market has at least 15 variations on pecorino.

Pecorino and mostardo.

Pecorino and honey.

The above are reasons to either not skip appertivo or to skip desert.

Porchetta: bah. Porchetta in Rome. bah. Tuscany. sorry, Tuscany has tripe trucks. We have porchetta trucks. The real deal prochetta trucks. Warm, salt, garlicy heaven. Umbria is the center of all that is porchetta and I defy anyone to argue with me on this one! This is one dish I wouldn't even think of trying at home. You NEED a whole pig, you NEED the grasso and the magro, you NEED that dead awful salt free bread roll to soak up the juices. You even need that brown paper to wrap up the warm meat. All porchetta comes from porchetta trucks, these guys are masters. And its like a diner, you go where the line is the longest. mmmm.....porchetta.

p.s. try and track down some Verdichio di Matellica. (Jesi's Verdichio is buttery like a chardonay, Matellica's is flinty).

ciao-ciao!

[Kevin72]

This weekend was dedicated entirely to Le Marche dishes.

Saturday night, I attempted Le Marche’s famous brodetto, fish soup. As I recently noted on another thread, I’ve finally acquired Waverly Root’s seminal Italian regional cooking tome, The Foods of Italy, and immediately read the Umbria and Le Marche chapters. (FYI Adam they do credit Le March as the place of origin for porchetta). He has an extensive writeup on brodetto and fish soup in general, devoting four pages to the subject.

Every city, town, village, and hamlet has its own version of brodetto, each has a different idea of what should go into it, and there is a tendency in every locality to assume that its own recipe has been communicated to it by divine revelation and all others are shameful, if not downright immoral.  Yet the very places most convinced of the sacrosanct quality of their own special variety of brodetto sin regularly against it.  Their ideal brodetto never gets made. The only element about brodetto which is always the same is that it is never the same . . . Brodetto is the child of happenstance . . . [Local] distinctions are based not on a complete invariable list of ingredients, but on a few key fish of the many which go into the brodetto. 

[You] can bring Adriatic cooks . . . to the verge of blows over the question of whether or not saffron should go in it. There are three points on which all brodetto makers agree: (1) the olive oil used in the soup should be of the best obtainable quality; (2) only very fresh fish should be used; (3) in preparing the fish for the pot, they should only be washed in sea water, never in fresh water.

Umm, well . . . I violated every principle listed above and then some. No scorpion fish, which according to Root is essential not just in a brodetto Marchigiani but in almost any Mediterranean fish soup. What did go in mine: spiney lobster, cod, squid, mussels, and scallops.

Made a stock out of the lobsters and some fish trimmings, a bottle of white wine, water, bay leaves, peppercorns, garlic, and celery. Strained it off and reduced to about half (and it was still more than could fit in the pot I made the brodetto in!). In the typical custom I’ve read many places, I went in layers, starting first with aromatics (garlic, shallots, chilies, parsley), then adding the calamari and stewing them for a bit. Added some vinegar and cooked it off, then the calamari and the stock, and saffron to simmer for a while. The fish (cod) went in next, followed by the mussels, and last the scallops and already cooked lobster meat. Finished with more vinegar.

While the soup cooked, I whipped up some “vongole alla Hathor”: clams steamed open in white wine, garlic, chilies, and anchovies. I used steamer, aka softshell, clams and they were pretty thin on the meat. In fact that seems to be the case with both clams and mussels this time of year. Anybody else notice this? I may make a thread about it elsewhere.

I have to say that I almost routinely find that for all the effort and expense that goes into a fish soup I’m generally slightly disappointed by the end result. Few of the flavoring elements carried through: the garlic, the saffron, the chilies, or the vinegar. Still good, mind you, just not as unique as I’d hoped.