Reviewing NYC Pizza

[Fat Guy]

Just tried Veloce. Unimpressive. The crust was heavy, and the top layer near the toppings was soggy. Not desirably wet in the center like a proper Neapolitan pie. Just soggy.

[philadining]

Finally got to Franny's. Thought the pizzas were pretty spectacular.

The crust was impossibly thin, in fact, if you look closely, you can see light shining through it...

I thought the thinness might be a problem, but I actually liked it quite a lot, I thought the flavors, textures, proportions were very nicely balanced. I was actually amazed that my favorite pizza was the one with very little on it, just tomato sauce, garlic and basil. I didn't miss the cheese at all on that one, each remaining ingredient was clear and present, and, well, delicious.

I guess I could see how someone wouldn't like this style I can't for the life of me figure out how one wouldn't like this style, but I can recognize that it's quirky. But it really worked for me.

Probably didn't hurt that it was a lovely afternoon, and we sat outside, and had a nice cocktail or two, but I really do think it was about the pizza...

Edited September 9, 2009 by philadining (log)

[Fat Guy]

I'm advising an out-of-town, serious food acquaintance on the following: assuming a near-complete lack of familiarity with the NYC pizza scene, what would be the 10 required stops on an NYC pizza literacy tour? Emphasis on the new wave, but not exclusively.

[tupac17616]

Just tried Veloce. Unimpressive. The crust was heavy, and the top layer near the toppings was soggy. Not desirably wet in the center like a proper Neapolitan pie. Just soggy.

I had the same reaction on my first visit. Not really motivated to make a second.

[Fat Guy]

Yes, Frank Bruni's affection for Veloce is mystifying.

[Pan]

Just tried Veloce. Unimpressive. The crust was heavy, and the top layer near the toppings was soggy. Not desirably wet in the center like a proper Neapolitan pie. Just soggy.

I like Veloce, though I wish their pizza was less oily, but I was flabbergasted to see a post that they were rated, I believe it was #1 by Bruni. That is just not remotely close to reasonable.

[weinoo]

Just tried Veloce. Unimpressive. The crust was heavy, and the top layer near the toppings was soggy. Not desirably wet in the center like a proper Neapolitan pie. Just soggy.

But it's not trying to be a Neapolitan pie. It's decidedly Sicilian, no?

[slkinsey]

Other than American-style "Sicilian" pizza, I am not sure there is any such thing. Sfincione, which most Siciliani would say is not the same thing as pizza, is thick, bready and square. But it has nowhere near the thickness or profusion of toppings and general sogginess that American-style "Sicilian" pizza typically has. Something like this would be a pretty representational example, and as you can see it's pretty dry.

[Fat Guy]

It's not trying to be a Neapolitan pie at all. It's a square pan pizza/whatever and it's soggy. A Neapolitan pie can be wet in the center, and some people call that soggy -- an defensible position -- but I'd call that a desirable sogginess. The Veloce pies are undesirably soggy.

[weinoo]

It's not trying to be a Neapolitan pie at all. It's a square pan pizza/whatever and it's soggy. A Neapolitan pie can be wet in the center, and some people call that soggy -- an defensible position -- but I'd call that a desirable sogginess. The Veloce pies are undesirably soggy.

Although Ed Levine found good pies on 2 of his 3 visits, it really appears as if you have to hit it just right...

And, thankfully, this time the crust performed. It was crisp, even crunchy, with a springy-spongy interior. I could actually pick it up without resorting to knife and fork. Winning crust plus awesome sausage equals one of the most alluring pizzas I've eaten in weeks.

As far as "Sicilian" pies go, I find the one downtown at Adrienne's Pizza Bar (the one they called Old-Fashioned Pizza" for some reason or another) to exhibit none of the poor qualities Sam mentions above. We quite liked the last pizza we had from there.

[LPShanet]

It's not trying to be a Neapolitan pie at all. It's a square pan pizza/whatever and it's soggy. A Neapolitan pie can be wet in the center, and some people call that soggy -- an defensible position -- but I'd call that a desirable sogginess. The Veloce pies are undesirably soggy.

I may be shot for being a non-believer, but I found the pies I had at Keste last week to also have an undesirable sogginess. In fact, I was overall unimpressed.

[Mambwe]

I have some friends who are visiting the city and are doing the Times Square, 5th Ave, Christmas Tree circuit. They want to have some good pizza. Are there any good pizza places in these neighborhoods? They also want to find place to have a drink. Can anyone recommend a place for us to grab a slice and also a separate place to get a cocktail?

[Sneakeater]

Bad part of town.

For cocktails:

King Cole Bar at the St. Regis

Ma Peche in the Chambers Hotel

Unless anyone can think of anything, pizza will be ordinary. (Although ordinary NYC slice pizza can be pretty good.)

[plattetude]

There's John's Pizza at 44th between B'way and 8th, which is not great but better than a reheated slice at any of the various Famous Ray's and their variants. If you're strictly staying in that part of town, options are very limited.

Christopher

[Mambwe]

I realize that is a rough place to get something good. What is the closest pizza place that serves great pizza? Even if we need to leave this area.

[Mambwe]

They are come in from Penn Station. Does this help at all? Is there some other place that stands out where we should go for lunch? They are coming from upstate and will be in NYC for the first time.

[ambra]

Angelo's at 57th and 6th is ok.

The best Pizza to me is under the Brooklyn Bridge at Grimaldi's. Surely too far!

[markk]

Although I haven't been there yet, I've heard really good things about Firehouse Pizza, and I believe them, because I used to eat one of the chef's food all the time when he cooked at another, (non-pizza) restaurant.

But as you can see, the offerings are anything but 'ordinary' – and (as I said above,) I know one of the chef's work well enough to know that he can pull this off.

So you might want to download the menu and check it out.

[tdeane]

If you want a good NY slice go to Joe's on Carmine in the Village or Bleeker Street pizza.

[varway]

I'd have to say that Angelo's on 57th is more than OK....we found it by accident a few weeks ago....just got to NYC that afternoon and were wandering around close to our hotel that night and went it. It was some of the best pizza we'd ever had, and their Insalata Siciliana was out of this world. We went to Lombard's and tried theirs, good, but not crazy outstanding. Ended up going back to Angelo's one more time before we headed home. Coal fired, thin and really very good. Never made it to Grimaldi's but decided that was okay since Grimaldi's had opened a location in San Antonio not long ago. If we need a good pizza fix we can go there.

[tupac17616]

I'd have to say that Angelo's on 57th is more than OK....we found it by accident a few weeks ago....just got to NYC that afternoon and were wandering around close to our hotel that night and went it. It was some of the best pizza we'd ever had, and their Insalata Siciliana was out of this world. We went to Lombard's and tried theirs, good, but not crazy outstanding. Ended up going back to Angelo's one more time before we headed home. Coal fired, thin and really very good. Never made it to Grimaldi's but decided that was okay since Grimaldi's had opened a location in San Antonio not long ago. If we need a good pizza fix we can go there.

Fair warning: Grimaldi's in SA is a pale imitation of Grimaldi's in Brooklyn. Don't get your hopes too high.

[kathryn]

Co., aka Company is near-ish Penn Station and might be good for lunch.

[tupac17616]

Tried Tonda today. Eh.

[weinoo]

Joe's is a place I've recommended on eGullet and to any number of friends and strangers who ask where they can get a good slice of pizza, because I have always liked their 'za. And it's a classic joint, too. No seats, just some high tables and a bit of a counter along a wall and along the front window...here it is, and you can see the table out front. It's just like the ones inside!

Just the other day I happened to be wandering around the "village," (yes, Greenwich Village, you aliens, you) when the urge for a slice (or two) struck, so I fought my way up to the front and ordered two slices; a fresh mozzarella slice ($3.50) and a "regular" ($2.50). I even was able to nudge my way into a space at the ledge by the front window, a prime spot if ever there was one.

Right off the bat, I knew something was amiss with the fresh slice. It basically cracked into 3 or 4 pieces when I tried to fold it into the classic eating a slice of pizza while standing up style. I like a bit of char on the crust (it's very traditional) but this puppy was black and burnt, as can be seen on the rear edge. That was the color of the whole bottom. It was cracker like and that's not good. Part of me wanted to bring it right back to the counter, but the place was packed and I wasn't in the mood.

And it really wasn't much better, crust-wise. Once again, overcooked and cracker-like, no fluffy tenderness at the edge or cornicione, and nothing like any other slice I've ever had at Joe's. I mean, on both slices, the toppings were good; but pizza is as much or more about the crust, isn't it? "What the hell is going on here?," I asked myself.

Now, they were busy (they always are) so that's no excuse. And maybe there were some new guys manning the ovens, but that's no excuse. Or making the pies, but that's no excuse. What I'm hoping is that I just ran into a bad day at Joe's. And when you have a bad slice or two at Joe's, you can always walk to the corner of Bleecker and Carmine, into a shop that actually used to be Joe's, and comfort yourself with this...

Rest of the story.

[weinoo]

Sometimes, places are open for a long time before I get there. Such is the case with Co. But, I'm glad I did, and I probably will go back, for a pizza pretty much unlike any other in NYC, and pretty delicious, too.

With our salads, we ordered the pizza bianca, which is way different from any pizza bianca we've ever had in, say, Rome...

Then we got down to a Pizza Rosa...

And a Pizza Boscaiola...

Now, don't necessarily go here thinking you'll get out cheaply. Of course, our party of 4 drank a little. Well, maybe a lot, with 2 bottles of wine and 2 draught beers (at the outrageous price of $8 a pint). We spent $100 a couple. YAMMV.