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Menus that Mangle foreign Languages


markk

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One of our local Italian joints is perhaps too rigorously anti-tautological in listing on their menu, simply, "spaghetti with balls."   :laugh:

have you ordered it? it may be all too literal...mmmmmm balls...

Once. Too much bread, not enough, err, meat...... :laugh:

I must say though that they were very big balls.

Edited by ghostrider (log)

Thank God for tea! What would the world do without tea? How did it exist? I am glad I was not born before tea!

- Sydney Smith, English clergyman & essayist, 1771-1845

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I once ordered an "apple pie" at a restaurant in Bologna, which turned out to be a (really, really good) apple cake. I gather the Italian "torta" is ambiguous. I occured to me, though, that my ultimate dream job would be to make a career of eating my way up and down Italy correcting menu English.

Andrew

Andrew Riggsby

ariggsby@mail.utexas.edu

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Our hotel in Sao Paulo listed "Misty Meat" as one of the dishes on their English-translated menu. We were never daring enough to try it.

...wine can of their wits the wise beguile, make the sage frolic, and the serious smile. --Alexander Pope

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Here's a phonetic "cousin" (my term; a word that follows the same pronunciation pattern)... Maraschino.  Correctly pronounced, it is Mar-i-skino.

I'll go you one further and suggest that it is pronounced: ma-ra-SKI-no (with a "ra" rather than a "ri" on the second syllable).

The more common term in an Italian bar would be latte macchiato, which means "stained milk" -- the idea being that the milk is "stained" by adding a tiny bit of coffee. There is also caffè macchiato, or "stained coffee" in which the coffee is "stained" with a tiny bit of milk. Somehow in American Starbucks-speak, "macchiato" has come to mean a large mostly milk drink with a little coffee and various syrups added, and "latte" has come to mean "a gigantic latte macchiato." Starbucks has also promulgated the misconception that macchiato means "marked" instead of "stained" (in fact, "marked" is probably best translated as segnato).

this quote was edited to reduce content in my reply - CSR

Sam....

I'll give ya the benefit of the doubt on your reply to my first post :cool:. Just kidding... the "ra" in syllable 2 is indeed a closer match. It can sometimes be difficult to transliterate certain sounds into English when you're fluent in more that two languages. :biggrin:

As far as macchiato = stained; segnato = marked? Yes, that's absolutely correct.

Best regards,

- CSR

BTW - Is it just me, or does anyone else get the feeling that our Italian cousins are beginning to curse Starbucks much like the French do Americans for having to put up with hearing "sket-bored" and "bleu jh-eens" in everyday speech?

"There's something very Khmer Rouge about Alice Waters that has become unrealistic." - Bourdain; interviewed on dcist.com
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Been to any French restaurant lately? A menu I read one day wandering the streets of Manhattan had the following to offer:

App: Masculine Salad

Entree: Bauf Bourguignon (In french slang: "brother in law from Burgundy")

Dessert: French Vanilla Ice Cream (In english, but what the heck is french vanilla?)

And to properly finish the kill, right at the bottom of the menu:

Bon Appetite!! (This, sadly, is ubiquitous)

"A chicken is just an egg's way of making another egg." Samuel Butler
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Dessert: French Vanilla Ice Cream (In english, but what the heck is french vanilla?)

French Vanilla ice cream is different than vanilla ice cream because with French Vanilla you start out by making a custard base...where you don't when making "normal" vanilla ice cream.

"French Vanilla Ice Cream"

versus

Alton Brown's "Serious Vanilla Ice Cream"

edited to add links

Edited by Toliver (log)

 

“Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits. It says, 'Oooooo.'

Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios.”

– From Fox TV’s “Family Guy”

 

Tim Oliver

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French Vanilla ice cream is different than vanilla ice cream because with French Vanilla you start out by making a custard base...where you don't when making "normal" vanilla ice cream.

So, if i follow you, what makes the ice cream french is the preparation, not the vanilla. This theory might stand, however I don't think it was the intention...

Then how do you explain french vanilla coffee, or french vanilla candy? Having called france home for 20 something years, I can assure you that there is no such thing as french vanilla in france. The vanilla you find in france most likely comes from madagascar or polynesia where it is harvested.

"A chicken is just an egg's way of making another egg." Samuel Butler
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What about gaffes in restaurant names?

I didn't spot any mention of it yet in this thread, but for years, in the Los Angeles area, two local French restaurants had names that would make an editor wince. (Or any well-trained US high-school graduate from 1900, say.) One of the names had an article wrong (le vs. la) while the other meant, evidently, to name itself for the Bordeaux wine subregion St.-Estèphe, but deployed an acute accent rather than a grave one (as we say in English); the result sounds different. The signs with these names were displayed for years, I first saw them in the early 1990s.

Don't forget the ancient (23-year-old) online caution (available in RFC1855) about the implications of correcting someone else's language in a posting. A restaurant sign, though, is a different thing, no?

-- MaxH

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French Vanilla ice cream is different than vanilla ice cream because with French Vanilla you start out by making a custard base...where you don't when making "normal" vanilla ice cream.

So, if i follow you, what makes the ice cream french is the preparation, not the vanilla. This theory might stand, however I don't think it was the intention...

Then how do you explain french vanilla coffee, or french vanilla candy? Having called france home for 20 something years, I can assure you that there is no such thing as french vanilla in france. The vanilla you find in france most likely comes from madagascar or polynesia where it is harvested.

I'm with Toliver on this one. So-called "french vanilla" ice cream in the U.S. is distinguished from typical (american) vanilla ice cream by its rich, custardy consistency, and pale yellow color; the term has been around since at least the 50s, probably longer. I suppose more accuately it would be called "vanilla French-Style ice cream" or "French-style vanilla ice cream" since it isn't made with vanilla from France, after all.

I suspect that the term was adopted by marketing types as an adjective for other things (like coffee; I have never have heard of F.V. candy!) to imply the same sort of richness. And it sounds a lot better than "vanilla coffee" :smile:

~Anita

edited to add: I'm not surprised to hear that there's no French Vanilla in France, much as there is no French toast, French fries, French dressing...

Edited by ScorchedPalate (log)

Anita Crotty travel writer & mexican-food addictwww.marriedwithdinner.com

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I always thought that French Vanilla ice cream implied that there would be actual vanilla bean pieces in the ice cream as well. Anytime I have had French vanilla ice cream this has been the case, while regular vanilla ice cream rarely has those little specks.

He don't mix meat and dairy,

He don't eat humble pie,

So sing a miserere

And hang the bastard high!

- Richard Wilbur and John LaTouche from Candide

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I always thought that French Vanilla ice cream implied that there would be actual vanilla bean pieces in the ice cream as well.  Anytime I have had French vanilla ice cream this has been the case, while regular vanilla ice cream rarely has those little specks.

French Vanilla usually means there's some egg yolk in the base; flecks of vanilla bean are optional in either French or regular vanilla ice cream.As to the derivation of the term, I don't know (who decided to call a fried thick julienne of potato a French fry), but as a former ice ream marketing guy, I know the American standard for a long time has been, if there's egg in the vanilla base, it's French Vanilla. I believe there's even an FDA standard to that effect - you can't call it French unless it has eggs. (Of course, adding egg to the mix increases cost, but many consumers like "French Vanilla" over plain Vanilla.

edited for clarity

Edited by nr706 (log)
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French Vanilla ice cream is different than vanilla ice cream because with French Vanilla you start out by making a custard base...where you don't when making "normal" vanilla ice cream.

So, if i follow you, what makes the ice cream french is the preparation, not the vanilla. This theory might stand, however I don't think it was the intention...

Then how do you explain french vanilla coffee, or french vanilla candy? Having called france home for 20 something years, I can assure you that there is no such thing as french vanilla in france. The vanilla you find in france most likely comes from madagascar or polynesia where it is harvested.

I'm with Toliver on this one. So-called "french vanilla" ice cream in the U.S. is distinguished from typical (american) vanilla ice cream by its rich, custardy consistency, and pale yellow color; the term has been around since at least the 50s, probably longer. I suppose more accuately it would be called "vanilla French-Style ice cream" or "French-style vanilla ice cream" since it isn't made with vanilla from France, after all.

I suspect that the term was adopted by marketing types as an adjective for other things (like coffee; I have never have heard of F.V. candy!) to imply the same sort of richness. And it sounds a lot better than "vanilla coffee" :smile:

~Anita

edited to add: I'm not surprised to hear that there's no French Vanilla in France, much as there is no French toast, French fries, French dressing...

Ok, that makes sense, thanks for the clarification :smile:

"A chicken is just an egg's way of making another egg." Samuel Butler
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I always thought that French Vanilla ice cream implied that there would be actual vanilla bean pieces in the ice cream as well.  Anytime I have had French vanilla ice cream this has been the case, while regular vanilla ice cream rarely has those little specks.

Anything with flecks of vanilla bean in it is purely a marketing gimmick.

True "French Vanilla" ice cream, if properly made, should actually be run through a sieve/filter before being churned to remove any and all lumps, bumps and foreign objects. This would include vanilla bean flecks. So if you buy "French Vanilla" ice cream and it has black flecks in it, pray it's a marketing gimmick and hope they really are vanilla bean flecks. :blink::laugh:

Dreyers (Eddie's on the East Coast?) makes a "Vanilla Bean" ice cream that is not a French Vanilla ice cream and allegedly has flecks of vanilla bean in it.

To come back on-topic, while I have observed obvious mistakes in language useage, I don't cringe. Sure, a hoity-toity place that mis-uses "primi" and "secondi" should know better. I say drop them a note if you're that perturbed.

But when someone asks me if I want a biscotti, I know what they mean even though they used the incorrect word. I say pick your battles and this ain't one of them.

 

“Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits. It says, 'Oooooo.'

Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios.”

– From Fox TV’s “Family Guy”

 

Tim Oliver

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French Vanilla usually means there's some egg yolk in the base; flecks of vanilla bean are optional in either French or regular vanilla ice cream.As to the derivation of the term, I don't know (who decided to call a fried thick julienne of potato a French fry), but as a former ice ream marketing guy, I know the American standard for a long time has been, if there's egg in the vanilla base, it's French Vanilla. I believe there's even an FDA standard to that effect - you can't call it French unless it has eggs. (Of course, adding egg to the mix increases cost, but many consumers like "French Vanilla" over plain Vanilla.

I think this is basically right: to be even more general, my understanding is that the two main types of ice cream-- at least, American ice cream-- are "French style" (cooked, eggy custard) and "Philadelphia style" (uncooked, no eggs). But there may be other terminologies as well.

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Dreyers (Eddie's on the East Coast?) makes a "Vanilla Bean" ice cream that is not a French Vanilla ice cream and allegedly has flecks of vanilla bean in it.

Did you mean Breyers? Anyway it fits with what you say, 'cept it's not called "Vanilla Bean." So you probably meant Dreyers. Which I've never heard of. Nor Eddie's.

Carry on, nothing to see here.

Thank God for tea! What would the world do without tea? How did it exist? I am glad I was not born before tea!

- Sydney Smith, English clergyman & essayist, 1771-1845

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Dreyers (Eddie's on the East Coast?) makes a "Vanilla Bean" ice cream that is not a French Vanilla ice cream and allegedly has flecks of vanilla bean in it.

Did you mean Breyers? Anyway it fits with what you say, 'cept it's not called "Vanilla Bean." So you probably meant Dreyers. Which I've never heard of. Nor Eddie's.

Carry on, nothing to see here.

Dreyer's is a West Coast brand (independent, I think), Breyer's is basically an East Coast brand owned by Unilever. As Dreyer's expanded its distribution into territories where Breyer's was already established, it changed the name of its product to Edy's, to avoid trademark infringement.

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Dreyer's is a West Coast brand (independent, I think), Breyer's is basically an East Coast brand owned by Unilever. As Dreyer's expanded its distribution into territories where Breyer's was already established, it changed the name of its product to Edy's, to avoid trademark infringement.

Here in Seattle there's both Dreyer's and Breyer's.

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Oh, Edy's, I've seen that, d'oh! Thanx for the explanations, I had not heard of Dreyers.

Back sort of on topic: last nite we dined at a pan-Asian place in NYC that offered several dishes sauteed with "black soya chilly sauce."

Thank God for tea! What would the world do without tea? How did it exist? I am glad I was not born before tea!

- Sydney Smith, English clergyman & essayist, 1771-1845

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