Foibles & fallacies: the demon customer

[Gifted Gourmet]

This thread is in answer to a post here, from Hi, I'll be your waiter and has been posed by the one and only Daniel Rogov .... who said the following, knowing full well that having thrown down the proverbial 'gauntlet' of his challenge, I would pick it up:

And believe me, when someone starts an appropriate thread I can also come up with a long, long list of things that irk me to the point of screaming when it comes to customers.

And so we shall begin to discuss the issue of is the customer always right?

Although this topic has been explored from time to time, the introduction of it is intended to stimulate some interesting, if sometimes provocative, discourse based upon our own interactions with customers ... either as a restaurant owner, chef, server, or in whatever capacity you have been able to interact with them ...

The floor is now open to any and all pertinent, possibly impertinent, discussion ...

[KatieLoeb]

This thread is in answer to a post here,  from Hi, I'll be your waiter  and has been posed by the one and only Daniel Rogov .... who said the following, knowing full well that having thrown down the proverbial 'gauntlet' of his challenge, I would pick it up:

And believe me, when someone starts an appropriate thread I can also come up with a long, long list of things that irk me to the point of screaming when it comes to customers.

And so we shall begin to discuss the issue of is the customer always right?

No of course they aren't. Certainly not anymore than regular retail customers or anyone at the receiving end of any professional service is ALWAYS right. There will always be the high maintenance entitled customer that asks for the impossible and won't take no for an answer, regardless of whether they're asking a restaurant to provide out of season fruit, insisting that their dry cleaner remove the well set in blood stain from their last murderous rampage or browbeating their physician into providing a more palatable diagnosis. That's just how they are and it's a lose-lose situation for the unfortunate individual that has to break the bad news to them. It how graciously the bad news is delivered and how diplomatically one is able to make Mr./Ms. Impossible Customer acquiesce to the alternative that defines great service.

[Daniel Rogov]

The gauntlet has been thrown down and who am I to refuse an attractively thrown gauntlet? Let me open by saying that in addition to being by profession a restaurant and wine critic, there are very few things in this life that I love more dearly than dining out. As a result of that love and what I hope is my professionalism, it is not unreasonable to also think of me as a client critic, for as restaurateurs and chefs have an obligation to their clients, so do clients have obligations to restaurateurs and those who work in restaurants as well as to the other clients in the restaurant in which they are dining.

My client complaints fall into several broad categories and those might be dealt with regarding how diners relate to their personal behavior, the way they relate to the staff of the restaurant, the way they relate to the food that is served them and the way in which they relate to wine.

(a) It takes only a few minutes before I come to actively despise those people who decide that a public restaurant is the place to carry on either their business or personal discussions and/or arguments at a volume and in a tone of voice that cannot help but be overheard by others who are not the least bit interested in their potential to earn millions, to divorce or murder their spouses, or the condition of their hemorrhoids.. Silence is surely not golden but a bit of discretion is always in order!

(b) I have no objection at all to cellular telephones in their place but that place is not sitting on a table in a fine restaurant waiting for its not-so-dulcet tones to make themselves heard by all and sundry around. When I see people walk into a restaurant and each of them places a cell phone on the table I am reminded of the Wild West when people would place their pistols on the table. I think I would prefer pistols! If one is a doctor on call, a president or a prime minister I forgive the use of the cell phone but even those notables should have a courtesy ring (one that vibrates and does not ring aloud) and when answering their calls should walk to the lounge area or if necessary out-of-doors. We mere mortals should either turn our phones off or arrange as well for a courtesy ring.

© With specific regard to the issue of bringing children to restaurants. I have no problem when that is done in mass-market restaurants but see no valid reason for bringing neonates, infants or children who cannot enjoy fine food to fine restaurants. That is what God made baby-sitters for! Nor is there any reason at any time to bring children to any restaurant if those children are not capable of at least acceptable behavior. I adore children but sometimes in restaurants with kids running around tripping waiters, annoying diners, making huge amounts of noise and sometimes hurling silverware and other potential deadly objects through the air I am tempted, as Oscar Wilde once did, to beckon the waiter and ask him to "please strangle the child".

(d) I am not fond of people who insist on starting cross-discussions with strangers at other tables. It is inappropriate to ask others what they thought of their portions, to comment on their clothing or to otherwise interfere with their pleasure.

(e) I am all for laughter. Laughing is even good for our health. I am, however, opposed to those who guffaw loudly in restaurants.

(f) It does not take me very long to start having death-wishes directed towards people who chew with their mouths open.

(g) I think there should be special torture chambers established (I exaggerate but only a bit) for clients who treat waitstaff as inferiors. There is no excuse to perceive waitstaff as servants or to speak rudely to them. There is no reason whatever for clients to touch waitstaff of the opposite sex (men are far more guilty of this than women), no reason to snap one's fingers or wave one's arms to gain attention (no matter how difficult it may be to gain the waiter's attention). Nor is there any reason to comment about the size of the breasts, thighs, backside or other parts of the anatomy of a waitperson. (The exception to touching of course is at the end of the meal, if the service has truly added to your pleasure, of shaking the hand of and thanking the waitperson)

(h) We could discuss the logic and justice of tipping forever, but this is not the place for that. I will say though that in places where tipping is the practice I am not fond of people who undertip or fail to tip. Granted, if service is terribly poor, a smaller tip or perhaps in rare cases no tip at all is called for, but when service is adequate in places where the waitstaff work hard for their living, so should the tip be appropriate. I am also not fond of people who ask waitstaff members to do special favors and conveniently "forget" at the end of the meal that this extra effort should also be rewarded. (Before anyone attacks me on this, I much prefer the European system where service is automatically included, but in places where it is not or if the "service charge" goes largely to the owner of the restaurant, I am in favor of rewarding fine service with apporopriate tips. Keep in mind please that in many places waitstaff members receive very minimal wages and their true earnings come in their tips)

(i) I do not appreciate clients who complain in a loud and/or vulgar fashion. When complaints are in order they should be presented calmly and quietly to the person in charge of the restaurant at the time of the visit. If no satisfaction is gained from that, a follow-up letter is in order. If no satisfaction is gained from that we have the simple and quiet revenge of neither returning to that establishment nor of recommending it to our friends.

(j) I do not appreciate clients who have reserved tables in advance, arrive late and then complain about why their table was not held for them. Clients should know that if they arrive more than 15 minutes late their table may well have been given to someone else. If unavoidably delayed that problem can easily be circumvented by phoning the restaurant and telling them that you will be a bit late.

(k) I believe that any dish can be returned if it proves inferior. That means though that the client needs take no more than a bite or two from the portion before calling over the waiter and asking for the dish to be replaced. People who have eaten half or more of a portion should not expect the dish to be replaced.

(l) I also believe that bottles of wine can be returned once opened and offered for tasting but that only on the condition that the replacement is requested because the wine is in some way "off" and not because the client does not find it to his/her taste. I also believe that a single smelling of and sip or two of any wine should be quite adequate to determine whether the wine has gone off. It is perfectly acceptable in cases where the person tasting is not sure to ask one of his/her companions to taste as well, but that's the limit. It's like in the antique store – break it and you've purchased it. Drink it and it's yours!!!

(m) I have a particular dislike of people who order, taste and return 2 , 3 or 4 bottles of wine, claiming that they are all off. In 99% of all cases that is done not because the wine is truly bad but because the person ordering is trying to show off for someone. In addition to being unfair to the restaurant, that is simply boorish behavior.

Methinks the list could go on but indeed, enough for now and despite all of the above, I must say that when dining out I almost invariably manage to enjoy myself rather thoroughly. One of my defense mechanisms against people who behave in the above mentioned manners is quite simple – they simply cease to exist for me.

[jackal10]

Its hard to win as a restauranter, since the customers bring their own prejudices, or worse the predjudices of the critics that they have read. Its hard to please the couple that are discussing their divorce, and hard not to please (or be noticed by) the couple discussing their engagement.

Very few have the palate to appreciate what you are doing, an don't understand why you are offering what to them is strange food, when what they really want is steak followed by chocolate. Most have gone to your high-end restaurant, not for the pleasure of the food, but as a status symbol or to show off to their dining companion, such as their boss or lover. Thus a high-end restaurant, and the staff with customer contact has to be as much about education, explaining what they are tasting and why it is so good (and expensive), as about actually producing the goods. Most customers, if not actually poisoned really can't tell.

Particular bete noirs:

a) The model type who toys with the food, and perhaps eats a small lettuce leaf, before trashing the rest of your lovingly made creation

b) The earth mother who insists on breast feeding at table, or the couple that eat each other while the food is cooling and congealing

c) The self-proclaimed foodie (or friend of the chef/owner/Maitre D) who loudly expresses their incorrect opinion

d) The drunk or druggy - frequent long trips to the loo to powder their nose. Worse when in packs

e) The mumbler, who can't order with any clarity, and then complains (in a thick accent) when you guess wrong

f) The person who orders the most expensive wine, or a young tannic claret and then complains its not sweet plonk

Grumpy? me?

Edited November 25, 2004 by jackal10 (log)

[fatmat]

I'd like to defend the punter a little. I feel that the job of the restaurant is to make it's customers comfortable. Customers have foibles (hell... so do restauranteurs and waiters, big style!!!). If you work in hospitality, you need to be understanding and to work around them a little.

I can't stand the arrogance of restaurants (and their pompous owners) that try to inflict their often overstated and inflated opinions of what they think the 'correct' dining experience should be.

Speaking as an ex waiter, I feel that the job is meet the punter's needs. Sadly, so many restaurants expect the punter to bend around them. I think it is a sad day when a restaurant/owner/waiter starts to believe that they are bigger and more important than their clients.

Don't forget that these people are paying customers, and provided that they are not being outright offensive, I think that we need to live and let live a little

[Jinmyo]

Don't forget that these people are paying customers, and provided that they are not being outright offensive, I think that we need to live and let live a little

Indeed. But let egregious boobs live somewhere else.

[butter]

I agree with most that has been posted here and although my beef is directed to the customer, it is the people I am dining with that really get me revved up. I'm a customer who will complain at a higher end restaurant because I feel the staff, both front and back, should have enough expertise to provide a better than usual dining experience and the fact is that that is what the customers are paying the high prices for. When I complain, I don't expect my meal to be complimentary or any other kickback as it's just my personal opinion and I usually don't complain unless there is something clearly wrong like it's overcooked, it tastes off, or there is a hair or bug in it. I just want them to know why I'm dissatisfied and it will hopefully improve on my next visit. My fellow diners do not, however. They will try the food and complain about it to the rest of us at the table, but when the server asks, "How is everything?" they remain silent. Is that the polite thing to do? Say nothing and never go back? If so, perhaps servers shouldn't ask that question anymore.

[TheFoodTutor]

A very good and nearly complete list, Mr. Rogov. You have excellent manners and as I am, you seem to be very sensitive to the etiquette breaches committed by others.

There has been a new development at my place of employment regarding cell phone usage. We've always had a policy of not allowing cell phones to be used in the dining room, this policy being written on our menus, on a metal plaque next to the front door and on a placard near the host stand. But now, I am actually allowed to insist that guests not use their cell phones at my tables, asking them to take their conversations to the lobby or the lounge instead.

I am absolutely overjoyed at this improvement, and you can be guaranteed that I'll be enforcing this policy without prejudice toward men or women, rich or poor, black or white, or purple for that matter. The reason I'm so thrilled with it is that it rids me of my biggest pet peeve: The guest who continues yammering into his phone while holding up one finger to me, insisting that I stand there and wait for him to be finished before he'll give me a beverage order. I hate that, and I find it very insulting to assume that one's cell phone conversation is so much more important than whatever I have to do at that moment.

[TheFoodTutor]

My fellow diners do not, however. They will try the food and complain about it to the rest of us at the table, but when the server asks, "How is everything?" they remain silent. Is that the polite thing to do? Say nothing and never go back? If so, perhaps servers shouldn't ask that question anymore.

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The same topic was discussed in another thread, about whether guests have a responsibility to point out flaws in the food or service to management, rather than simply leave and never come back. I don't think a guest has a responsibility to help a restaurant improve itself, but if you have a complaint about a dish, the obvious advantage to complaining is that you can get a dish you like better instead.

As Mr. Rogov mentioned, however, it is unacceptable to eat all or most of a dish and then complain, hoping to have the price of that dish removed from your bill.

Another point that I found questionable happened last week at the restaurant where I work. A lady had ordered a dish that is no longer on our menu, and she asked for it with its specific name, but she really had meant to order another dish instead, also an item that is no longer on the menu. Both of these items originally had silly-sounding names, and with changes on the menu since then, we no longer have things that sound so cutesy. Anyway, when the dish arrived, she looked at it and said, "That's not what I ordered. I ordered Silly-Sounding Chicken Dish."

So of course, I told her that this, in fact, was Silly-Sounding Chicken Dish, but she explained that she'd meant to order Slightly Less Silly-Sounding Chicken Dish, and could I go back and get that for her instead? Well, yes I can, but that means that this plate of food will go to waste because of an error on this woman's part, because there is no way we're going to get another order for Silly-Sounding Chicken Dish so that we can re-serve it. If I had been the customer, I would have been polite enough to realize that food should not be thrown away because I couldn't remember which Silly Chicken Dish I wanted, so I would have just eaten my mistake.

But that's just me, I guess.

[Tess]

As a customer-- never a waiter-- the behavior I find most annoying basically falls into the category of people who want a *lot* of attention when they dine out and seem to do everything possible to make the waiter spend the maximum amount of time on them. I had this one boss who did this routine where he would look like he was ready to order; the waiter would come over; he would say, oh sorry but he needed a few minutes more. This went on up to half a dozen times before we would succeed in ordering. It was annoying to his dining companions (we wanted to order some food already) and I can only imagine how it made the server feel. To their credit they were almost always tolerant. However if it was a woman he would also be flirtatious, doing things like sitting up exaggeratedly straight when she came over and saying, "ooh, I'm not being attentive" like she was the bloody schoolteacher or something. One waitress when he was being particularly bad turned to me and said, "Is he always like this?" He lapped that up; thought it meant he was cute. I was just annoyed that she seemed to think I was his wife.

[Pan]

So of course, I told her that this, in fact, was Silly-Sounding Chicken Dish, but she explained that she'd meant to order Slightly Less Silly-Sounding Chicken Dish, and could I go back and get that for her instead? Well, yes I can, but that means that this plate of food will go to waste because of an error on this woman's part, because there is no way we're going to get another order for Silly-Sounding Chicken Dish so that we can re-serve it. If I had been the customer, I would have been polite enough to realize that food should not be thrown away because I couldn't remember which Silly Chicken Dish I wanted, so I would have just eaten my mistake.

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Yeah.

So what happened? Was Silly Chicken Dish served to the dishwashers?

[fatmat]

What is the issue with cell phones. Let's face it, people use phones - an unavoidable fact of life - it's the 21st Century.

What is the difference between chatting with a friend at the table, and talking to one by phone?

OK, ringing phones are annoying, but provided that they are turned onto vibrate, what's the problem??

[Pan]

What is the issue with cell phones.

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Have a look here.

[TheFoodTutor]

Actually, the reason why we've had to crack down on cell phones is because we had an incident a couple of weeks ago where a gentleman, or a not-so-gentle man rather, called his ex-girlfriend, or someone who he knew would scream obscenities at him, at any rate, and while she was giving her tirade about what a no-good, worthless piece of excrement he was, he turned up the volume loud enough that everyone in the dining room was treated to a stream of profanity.

And generally people tend to yack louder on the phone than the normal level of polite conversation at a table.

[fatmat]

So basically, if people chat discreetly, then phones are no problem...?

Concerning your crack down...What about the incidents where people shout at each other face to face... Can I suggest that you introduce a no talking policy???

[TheFoodTutor]

So what happened? Was Silly Chicken Dish served to the dishwashers?

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Silly Chicken Dish was fed to the garbage can, because while I'd normally try to eat any mistakes like that, or split them with another waiter, we were way too busy to be able to even take a bite of anything. And there wasn't a convenient place for me to stash it, either. I think she should have paid for it, but we took it off her bill.

Another faux pas on the part of guests involves what we in the industry call "camping." I don't want to rush anyone out the door or anything, but there is really no reason to stay at a table for more than an hour, or two, or three, after one has finished consuming everything in his or her meal. Mostly, it's just rude to the server, who pays rent on those tables and is unable to make money on another turn of guests, but sometimes it can be rude to other guests who are waiting at the door, impatiently, since they were told you'd be relinquishing that table in 30 minutes, but you didn't.

Monday I had a table of campers, a man and a woman who were really cuddly and ordered nothing but water and one entree to split, then stayed for 5 hours. In that time, I refilled their waters at least 15 times, and of course I was treated to a lovely display of a game of "footsie" plus a less than 20% tip on their tiny bill. When my shift was over, the gentleman called me over on my way out the door and told me that he and the woman had talked themselves into one glass of wine, to share, and I told him that I was oh so sorry that I'd no longer be waiting on him, since I was done for the day. I simultaneously felt relieved for myself, and sad for the server taking over my section.

Do you think he'd have gotten the hint if I'd brought him a bag of marshmallows to toast?

[TheFoodTutor]

So basically, if people chat discreetly, then phones are no problem...?

Concerning your crack down...What about the incidents where people shout at each other face to face... Can I suggest that you introduce a no talking policy???

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If people chatted quietly, there wouldn't be a problem with allowing them to use cell phones, but if we chose to enforce the rule for some and not for others, we would definitely be accused of discriminating. No question about it. We would probably end up with charges of racism or sexism or some kind of ism. For the same reason, we must uniformly use the autograt added to parties of 5 or more. You cannot ever pre-judge a table and decide which ones look like they're better tippers. Any policy has to be enforced uniformly, every single time.

And we do send managers out to tables that are talking in a disruptive fashion as well. No need to forbid talking in general, but if you're bothering the next table over, knock it off, please.

[Pan]

Monday I had a table of campers, a man and a woman who were really cuddly and ordered nothing but water and one entree to split, then stayed for 5 hours.

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Five hours?! I always tip extra when I've stayed a long time, but five hours?!!!!!

[fatmat]

Enforced tipping... how wrong is that?? Tipping (To 'Insure' Promptness = TIP).

Its frustrating when people don't tip, but I believe that it should be voluntary. It's what keeps waiters on their toes.

When I waitered, I enjoyed the challenge of earning my tip - It gave me a little more drive and helped keep a smile on my face even when I didn't feel like it

[balex]

(g) I think there should be special torture chambers established (I exaggerate but only a bit) for clients who treat waitstaff as inferiors.  There is no excuse to perceive waitstaff as servants or to speak rudely to them.

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This is the only one I disagree with, Waitstaff are servants -- not my personal servants, but they are there to serve me. They are servants of the restaurant (in the technical legal sense) and they are my social inferiors in that context . Obviously you shouldn't speak rudely to them, but treating servants rudely has always been one of the most loathsome things I have seen (I lead a sheltered life).

[fatmat]

...and they are my social inferiors in that context .

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Ouch... I don't think so.

We are no better or no worse, we are just paid to provide a service, context regardless!!

[auntdot]

I found Mr. Rogov's statement quite appropriate, and I am the person sitting down in the restaurant.

But I will address the issue of cell phones in restaurants.

If I don't know you are talking into one, I don't care. But the problem with cell phones is that people usually yell into them.

And that is annoying.

[Pan]

This is the only one I disagree with,  Waitstaff are servants -- not my personal servants, but they are there to serve me. They are servants of the restaurant (in the technical legal sense) and they are my social inferiors in that context .  Obviously you shouldn't speak rudely to them, but treating servants rudely has always been one of the most loathsome things I have seen (I lead a sheltered life).

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In which case, are you sure servants are your social inferiors? I don't mind it if you consider waiters paid servants, as long as you'd also treat a servant as your equal. Since you consider servants socially inferior to you, what I'd be concerned about is how that might be reflected - consciously or unconsciously - in your behavior.

[Pan]

Enforced tipping... how wrong is that?? Tipping (To 'Insure' Promptness = TIP).

Its frustrating when people don't tip, but I believe that it should be voluntary. It's what keeps waiters on their toes.

When I waitered, I enjoyed the challenge of earning my tip - It gave me a little more drive and helped keep a smile on my face even when I didn't feel like it

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Interesting. So you feel the system that exists in most of the world outside the U.S. is wrong? How does that wrongness reflect itself in terms of lousy service in Italy, France, China, Japan, etc.?

[fatmat]

Enforced tipping... how wrong is that?? Tipping (To 'Insure' Promptness = TIP).

Its frustrating when people don't tip, but I believe that it should be voluntary. It's what keeps waiters on their toes.

When I waitered, I enjoyed the challenge of earning my tip - It gave me a little more drive and helped keep a smile on my face even when I didn't feel like it

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Interesting. So you feel the system that exists in most of the world outside the U.S. is wrong? How does that wrongness reflect itself in terms of lousy service in Italy, France, China, Japan, etc.?

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Exsqueeze me...? don't get your question. My stand is that forced tipping is wrong. Forced tipping does not guarantee good service in any way, shape or form.