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mjr_inthegardens's kitchen renovation topic


mjr_inthegardens

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Also-Martha Stewart likes soapstone, for whatever that's worth.

I do like the jailhouse look. :biggrin:

The 10'/11' to the wall in the DR is free. We don't have a proper dining table even.

I am not sold on cluttering that room up with a large china storage unit as the last owners' made that room seem smaller and also I do not have china (I am 26).

If you go counter depth then you are almost forced to go stainless steel which I have been resisting. I will shop around... I have home depot, lowes, sears, ajmadison all in brooklyn. Maybe I will find a nice on sale banged up piece.

-mjr

Think about various options in the dining room as you cabinet shop. For instance, a tall but 12-inch deep pantry cabinet w/ a low counter in between to use as a buffet. Or a free-standing piece from IKEA that coordinates w/ the cabinets. You can store LOTS more than china & glasses in there-the big pots you don't use very often, extra paper towels, platters, baking sheets, 12-packs of beer, etc.

GE Profile makes 24-inch deep side by sides in colors other than SS.

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About 5 years ago I bought an apartment on the upper west side and gutted and revovated the kitchen. My plan, like yours, was to stay there for 3-5 years.

With regard to the refrigerator, I originally wanted one that would be flush with the counters because I liked the way it looked, although I prefer the top-freezer style. One thing to consider about the side by side counter-depth models is that they are generally wider than the top-freezer style. Therefore, you will lose some of the counter space next to the refrigerator. I ended up with a top-freezer model because I didn't want to sacrifice the counter/cabinet space, and I didn't think it was necessary to double the cost of the refrigerator.

The plan that you have looks very nice. You definitely have to think about re-sale now, but, speaking from experience, I don't think the refrigerator depth will make the difference.

The one other thing that I would recommend is getting some lighting under the upper cabinets. I didn't do that and I always wished that I did. Although my kitchen fixture was bright, I always felt that I didn't have enough light directly on the counters.

By the way, I sold my apartment a month ago...exactly 5 years and 1 day after I moved in! (And for 2.5 times what I paid :smile:)

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I have a few tips for you, given I am going through the same situation at the moment.

We purchased a one family frame house in Park Slope that was built around 1903 and the kitchen was definitely lacking in both space and functionality as a result we completely gutted the kitchen and are now in the process of rebuilding it.

I ordered kraftmaid cabinets from the new Lowes as well. I would definitely stick with full plywood construction. We looked at the ikea cabinets and decided against them because of their particle board construction. The main issue is that if it did get wet at the core accidentally you will be really screwed as the panels will swell up.

Also make sure you opt for the Full Extension Drawer slides on all your drawers. Depending on the door selection you picked they may or may not be optional. Lowes has its own brand of Kraftmaid, called Cross Creek. If you order a Cross Creek door style, you get the upgraded slides. Otherwise you need to order the upgrade. They offer two different full extension slides, with and without buffer. The buffer is the model that after you push the drawer in, it will stop it a few inches from the end and slowly tug it back in the closed position.

I had 6 base drawer cabinets and for me the difference in drawer prices was about another 550 bucks for the buffer model.

For the microwave, if you don't mind giving up some of your space in the island you can get the kraftmaid Base Microwave Cabinet. (BMC). This will fit most small/mid sized microwaves and give you a drawer underneath it as well. Ideally I would probably place it opposite the fridge, as 95% of the things that go into the microwave come out of the fridge.

As far as tile, I found an amazing deal on tile at Nemo Tile on E21st. (http://www.nemotile.com) . We got some standard white 3x8 subway tile for about $3 a sq ft, and a nice 1"x1" octagonal white bistro floor tile for the floor with a black border tile for about $3.75 sq/ft.

They have a great showroom and friendly staff. If you are interested in doing tile, check them out.

For countertops, we are still shopping around. I have a few neighbors who installed granite countertops from All Granite and Marble (http://www.allgraniteandmarble.com) and they swear by them. Apparently they bet the prices of about 5 other fabricators by quite alot.

They have a huge lot full of marble in NJ right over the bridge and you basically go out there and pick out your slab and then they come and do a template for your counters.

At this point I am heavily leaning towards quartz. The idea of it being able to handle really hot pots and pans without fear of damage and the almost non-existent maintenance it needs is very appealing.

-jpd

Edited by johnder (log)

John Deragon

foodblog 1 / 2

--

I feel sorry for people that don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day -- Dean Martin

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  • 3 weeks later...

So whats happening with your renovation?

John Deragon

foodblog 1 / 2

--

I feel sorry for people that don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day -- Dean Martin

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Johnder,

Plans are coming along. Thanks for the tip on the Tile place... I think we will try to use them for flooring for the kitchen.

I am planning on ordering the Cabinetry finally this tuesday. It is easier to go through Lowes than other places or friends of friends. I am also going to order dishwasher and range from them on Tuesday and get 10% off the whole purchase through a coupon.

We revisited Lowes yesterday and the upgraded drawer systems with the buffer that shut the drawer slowly for you even if you push it in hard was only $200 more for our entire kitchen (metal ball-bearing mechanism, full extension drawers too). It's really cool. We didn't have cross-creek cabs, so I was glad we asked about it.

I figure we will be doing the install in January sometime (or Feb).

I bought a fridge from Kenmore last week, and it arrived with a broken Pizza Shelf and busted Tilt out Crispers. Sears is going to redeliver a replacement this sunday, giving me a week to play with the busted one to see if I like it. So far, it is a little annoying. The top freezer is quite large, so it is difficult to see down into the fridge. Also there is a door alarm that beeps when the doors to the fridge are open for long time. Stupidly there is no way to shut this off that I can see, so when I am loading groceries or just standing looking for a snack, this beeping noise sounds. I suppose this could be useful, but honestly, as a 21st Century American, I think I deserve to be able to stand with the fridge open and not have it beep at me. This may be a dealbreaker.

If I decide I don't like it, I figure I can call Sears and just tell them to pick this one up and then I can pick a different fridge.

I have decided to put a beer fridge in the Island -- the Avanti Tavern Master. My parents are going to make it a Christmas/Housewarming present.

My next challenges will be:

- Thinking about electric and fixtures

- Planning to rip down the walls that need to come down

- Ordering Countertop

Cheers

-MJR

�As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy, and to make plans.� - Ernest Hemingway, in �A Moveable Feast�

Brooklyn, NY, USA

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Re Soapstone...

I had it priced out through Vermont Soapstone, and it seems like it will cost me nearly 6000, not including a soapstone sink (another 800).

1. 16.26 sq. ft. 1 ¼” Fabricated Soapstone Tops (L-Shape) $1,252.02

2. 9.00 sq. ft. 1 ¼” Fabricated Soapstone Tops (Oversize Corner Piece) $792.00

3. 18.00 sq. ft. 1 ¼” Fabricated Soapstone Tops (Island) $1,386.00

4. 5.33 sq. ft. ¾” Fabricated Soapstone Splash (4”) $386.96

5. Wagner Sink 33 x 20 x 9 ¾” OD $878.91

6. Delivery & Installation By Vermont Soapstone $1,900.00

I had priced Silestone to be approx 4000 including installation, so I think Soapstone is not looking likely. Additionally, I appreciate the texture/dark color of soapstone but like the flxeibility of color selection that sile has.

-mjr

�As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy, and to make plans.� - Ernest Hemingway, in �A Moveable Feast�

Brooklyn, NY, USA

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I had priced Silestone to be approx 4000 including installation, so I think Soapstone is not looking likely. Additionally, I appreciate the texture/dark color of soapstone but like the flxeibility of color selection that sile has.

Is there a Caesarstone supplier near you? (Must be!) Have a look ... at least for me, Caesarstone prices out better than Silestone, and is the same stuff.

A.

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I had priced Silestone to be approx 4000 including installation, so I think Soapstone is not looking likely. Additionally, I appreciate the texture/dark color of soapstone but like the flxeibility of color selection that sile has.

Is there a Caesarstone supplier near you? (Must be!) Have a look ... at least for me, Caesarstone prices out better than Silestone, and is the same stuff.

A.

Thanks for the idea.

There seem to be plenty of dealers in Brooklyn.

That Concetto stuff on that website is gorgeous. Probably costs a pound of flesh though!

�As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy, and to make plans.� - Ernest Hemingway, in �A Moveable Feast�

Brooklyn, NY, USA

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  • 3 months later...

UPDATE (long, sorry):

I didn't want to leave this thread to pass into history without an update.

Our kit renovation finally launched yesterday for better or worse. My contractor, R, (gf's bro-in-law) is acting as our GC (in cooperation with me) and doing the work. He ripped out the remaining cabinets yesterday, laid the (ceramic tile) floor through the kitchen (and 10" into the LR where we are expanding the kitchen). The granite installers should come on monday to measure for the island and counter granite installation.

He also went into the wall. He is moving the kitchen sink plumbing to the corner for the new sink, putting in the water hookups for icemaker in fridge, dishwasher and a new corner sink in the 1/2 bath behind the kitchen (in our bedroom).

(My corner sink: http://www.rensup.com/Details.cfm?pid=10782) Only problem with the sink so far is that IT DIDN'T COME WITH MOUNTING BRACKETS!!! I have called rensup to see if they know where I can get a bracket, brackets or how to hang sink. The idea here is to replace existing vanity/sink unit in that 1/2 bath with a stackable apartment washer dryer.

Other items: I bought a Blanco Undermount sink (20"w x 19"l x 10"d) for the corner sink base and a Hamat Richmond Stainless Steel Faucet. We have to decide on cabinet hardware this week probably -- looking for stainless steel pulls and knobs. Have to get a soap dispenser too.

Working within a NYC apartment, not house, (See Johnder's thread for example) it is much harder to do things given physical limitations of apartments. For example, there is a "fresh air" chase that runs from the bathrooms behind the kitchen up through our building, but I cannot vent bathroom fans or dryer into it. Therefore, we are planning a soffit to run in the 6" space above my new Kraftmaid cabinets. The soffit will house exhaust for the bathrooms & dryer then kitchen range out through the Dining Room (in a 8-10" soffit) out the wall into the backyard. This is the only way I can figure to get decent venting of the bathrooms.

Another bridge addressed but not crossed was how to install lighting for the new island in our open concept kitchen. We have concrete ceilings and R says he thinks will be perhaps unsafe/too difficult to break into the center of one of the center-hollow concrete ceiling "lanes" to try to run wires for the lights. We are planning alternatively a small soffit which for aesthetics would box in the kitchen on the ceiling, 4-6" or so, and house the electric transformers and wiring for the island lighting. A debatable benefit here would be the further delineation of the kitchen from the LR/DR space.

I have not chosen either the central ceiling light (I have decided against a fan!) or ceiling mount lighting for the island yet so any suggestions would be welcomed. I will post some pictures later of my counter, floor, cabs and the progress that has been made so you can have a look.

This is all extremely exciting. We are looking forward to having a REAL kitchen for the first time since we moved in. Once the kitchen is done it will be a real help as all of our kitchen gear is hanging out taking up space in the LR/DR right now!!!!

Thanks for listening. This was cathartic.

-MJR

ps licensed electrician, R's brother, D, is coming today or tomorrow to see his part of the renovation, involving circuit for washer/dryer, updating outlets, running electric for lighting, island etc.

Edited by mjr_inthegardens (log)

�As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy, and to make plans.� - Ernest Hemingway, in �A Moveable Feast�

Brooklyn, NY, USA

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Some pictures to give you a sense of where we started and

where we are getting to.

BEFORE:

<img src="http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1111717297/gallery_12579_385_25757.jpg">

The kitchen as it was. Old shitty cabinets -- "builder's grade" as they say.

Popcorn ceilings with 20 years of crud.

<img src="http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1111773598/gallery_12579_385_1732.jpg">

Ceiling ceiling fan (!?!?) + kitchen

grease + popcorn ceiling = blech

<img src="http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1111717297/gallery_12579_385_18942.jpg">

Washer in the kitchen, on right and left walls that I took down (with my friend keith).

<img src="http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1111717297/gallery_12579_385_2410.jpg">

Dining Room - Kitchen shot before. Note the level of ABSOLUTE FILTH. These people didn't clean for 20 years I swear.

RENOVATION:

<img src="http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1111717297/gallery_12579_385_3870.jpg">

$2500 --- all popcorn ceilings in entire apartment skim plastered over

Flat Clean Ceilings -- Priceless

<img src="http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1111717297/gallery_12579_385_4478.jpg">

Cabinets in a big pile. Don't worry, chandelier will come down and be chucked eventually.

<img src="http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1111773598/gallery_12579_385_29838.jpg">

My gf's brother in law and our contractor with newly installed sink base in corner.

<img src="http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1111773598/gallery_12579_385_6282.jpg">

"extreme" sink base closeup ;) Can see the floor tile too.

<img src="http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1111773598/gallery_12579_385_28096.jpg">

Ready for installation of wall cabinets. Note the wall is gone from before pics.

<img src="http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1111773598/gallery_12579_385_19289.jpg">

My new dishwasher and flanking cabs. Sorry about the cardboard.

So it is coming together.

I will post more pics as it is finished. My camera is out of batteries right now anyway!

-MJR

�As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy, and to make plans.� - Ernest Hemingway, in �A Moveable Feast�

Brooklyn, NY, USA

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Oh mjr, you're right about the filth... :blink:

Thanks for posting the pictures; it's really coming along.  Floor and ceiling both look great!  Gather you'll have a busy weekend!

You should have seen the cabinets up close and the side next to the old range!!!

Touching it reactivated the grease!!!

Dirty bastards!!

�As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy, and to make plans.� - Ernest Hemingway, in �A Moveable Feast�

Brooklyn, NY, USA

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I'd like to know how you like the corner sink once you get to use it. I have been thinking about doing that in our kitchen. So far, I've just done lots and lots of what-ifs because I want waaaay more than will fit in my smallish kitchen. I'm not sure I'd like a corner sink, and it would be situated similarly to yours.

Of course, anyone else with a corner sink, feel free to toss your 2 cents in.

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I'd like to know how you like the corner sink once you get to use it.  I have been thinking about doing that in our kitchen.  So far, I've just done lots and lots of what-ifs because I want waaaay more than will fit in my smallish kitchen.  I'm not sure I'd like a corner sink, and it would be situated similarly to yours.

Of course, anyone else with a corner sink, feel free to toss your 2 cents in.

We will have 29"+ room on the one counter next to our corner sink, as our contactor brought out the plumbing 3" in front of the wall / existing plumbing in order to run all the necessaries.

I will take extensive pictures of the corner sink to show you how it ends up working. Countertop guys should be here this monday to measure.

�As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy, and to make plans.� - Ernest Hemingway, in �A Moveable Feast�

Brooklyn, NY, USA

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All the cabinets have been installed. The trim work has not been completed yet and none of the electric has been done.

The granite should be arriving for installation on Monday. They measured this Monday.

Some new pictures:

gallery_12579_385_39553.jpg

gallery_12579_385_26679.jpg

gallery_12579_385_12851.jpg

gallery_12579_385_31254.jpg

-MJR

�As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy, and to make plans.� - Ernest Hemingway, in �A Moveable Feast�

Brooklyn, NY, USA

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To do:

- Lighting purchases

- Backsplash Tiles (I really have no idea)

- Get fridge ventilation wooden panel for above fridge cabinet from HD (stain, install)

- Pickup mini-fridge from etronics.com (on the Lower East Side, baby!!)

- Electric (electrician coming to look at place tomorrow, estimate then)

- Granite install - monday

- Cabinet finish work, minor repairs etc.

- Soffit construction

- Crown molding and cabinet bottom finishing

-mjr

�As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy, and to make plans.� - Ernest Hemingway, in �A Moveable Feast�

Brooklyn, NY, USA

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To do:

- Lighting purchases

- Backsplash Tiles (I really have no idea)

- Get fridge ventilation wooden panel for above fridge cabinet from HD (stain, install)

- Pickup mini-fridge from etronics.com (on the Lower East Side, baby!!)

- Electric (electrician coming to look at place tomorrow, estimate then)

- Granite install - monday

- Cabinet finish work, minor repairs etc.

- Soffit construction

- Crown molding and cabinet bottom finishing

-mjr

As a contractor, myself, you seem to be way late on the electric. He should have been one of the first. :hmmm:

Bruce Frigard

Quality control Taster, Château D'Eau Winery

"Free time is the engine of ingenuity, creativity and innovation"

111,111,111 x 111,111,111 = 12,345,678,987,654,321

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To do:

- Lighting purchases

- Backsplash Tiles (I really have no idea)

- Get fridge ventilation wooden panel for above fridge cabinet from HD (stain, install)

- Pickup mini-fridge from etronics.com (on the Lower East Side, baby!!)

- Electric (electrician coming to look at place tomorrow, estimate then)

- Granite install - monday

- Cabinet finish work, minor repairs etc.

- Soffit construction

- Crown molding and cabinet bottom finishing

-mjr

As a contractor, myself, you seem to be way late on the electric. He should have been one of the first. :hmmm:

My contractor is his brother and we've talked about what is needed. It's really not too too much in the way of electric and I trust them so we'll see how it goes.

�As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy, and to make plans.� - Ernest Hemingway, in �A Moveable Feast�

Brooklyn, NY, USA

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To do:

- Lighting purchases

- Backsplash Tiles (I really have no idea)

- Get fridge ventilation wooden panel for above fridge cabinet from HD (stain, install)

- Pickup mini-fridge from etronics.com (on the Lower East Side, baby!!)

- Electric (electrician coming to look at place tomorrow, estimate then)

- Granite install - monday

- Cabinet finish work, minor repairs etc.

- Soffit construction

- Crown molding and cabinet bottom finishing

-mjr

As a contractor, myself, you seem to be way late on the electric. He should have been one of the first. :hmmm:

My contractor is his brother and we've talked about what is needed. It's really not too too much in the way of electric and I trust them so we'll see how it goes.

Keep us informed. :biggrin:

Bruce Frigard

Quality control Taster, Château D'Eau Winery

"Free time is the engine of ingenuity, creativity and innovation"

111,111,111 x 111,111,111 = 12,345,678,987,654,321

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To do:

- Backsplash Tiles (I really have no idea)

Wait until the countertops are in ... get tile samples and look at them bext to the countertops. No hurry here as it sounds like there's some electrical work that needs doing and the walls may need to be opened up a little. The backsplash can cover up some nasty drywall patches :biggrin:

winesonoma ... I sometimes have the electrical work done after the fact if it means a better schedule. Depends on the work needed to be done. Of course, the preference is to have all the rough-in work done first. mrj, just make sure you have the base cabinets covered up while the work is being done. I'd hate to see those cabinets get dinged up.

A.

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To do:

- Backsplash Tiles (I really have no idea)

Wait until the countertops are in ... get tile samples and look at them bext to the countertops. No hurry here as it sounds like there's some electrical work that needs doing and the walls may need to be opened up a little. The backsplash can cover up some nasty drywall patches :biggrin:

winesonoma ... I sometimes have the electrical work done after the fact if it means a better schedule. Depends on the work needed to be done. Of course, the preference is to have all the rough-in work done first. mrj, just make sure you have the base cabinets covered up while the work is being done. I'd hate to see those cabinets get dinged up.

A.

Thanks for the advice about backsplash. We are definitely going to do one, just need to figure out what.

My contractor will be cardboarding over the base cabinets before any additional work is done to protect them.

A comment about my cabinets for everyone: Overall, I am satisfied, but not totally impressed with the kraftmaid cabinets. The finish is imperfect in many places in ways that would not be hard to have fixed by a competent finisher. Also my cabs gained numerous scratches in shipment. I think next time I have to buy cabs I may try to go with a local provider instead of a name like kraftmaid in order to avoid this carelessness. I intend to let kraftmaid know about this too. Overall I think they look great in the space and my drawers kick ass.

Arne, can you give any advice on what you think would be a better solution for lighting the island from the 6" approx soffit that will be framed around the kitchen on the ceiling? Spots or pendants? I have been looking at lighting sites on the web and am going to the Bowery/Chinatown lighting district on Saturday.

My dad thinks spots would be better because they would be less obtrusive and my contractor thinks pendants. I think pendants would divide the space a little more, which might be something I want aesthetically. But maybe my dad has a point. Would they get in the way of people standing and socializing around the island?

Thanks much

-MJR

�As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy, and to make plans.� - Ernest Hemingway, in �A Moveable Feast�

Brooklyn, NY, USA

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