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Identifying and Buying Pancetta


ghostrider

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I've never known Italians to eat uncooked pancetta.

Pancetta can well be eaten uncooked and often is - sometimes the cured belly is rolled, then it is sold sliced, just like other salumi to enjoy as an antipasto, or stuffed in rolls. For that matter, lardo, pure white back fat cured in salt, garlic and spices (such as the outstanding lardo di Colonnata), is similarly eaten uncooked, simply sliced thinly, a delicious and favourite nibble with a good glass of wine.

to add to the terminology fun, when i was at a wine bar in rome, they referred to this on the menu as bacon di colonnata.

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Ciao...don't know where to start...

Pancetta - almost always used "raw" here in Italy. Thin slices is the most common way of eating it. The pancetta we make here get rolled and pressed between two wooden boards. It is aged two years before ready. Salt, pepper and a few are marked to include garlic in the seasoning. A truly amazing product - nothing in the world can replace it - and a good one, made by experienced hands, is even better...and yes, you can tell.

Coppa - not anything like bacon - doesn't come from the belly area but nearer the shoulder. Also, salt pepper and time. Aged for a min. of 1 year before ready here. The end product is a beautiful array of meat and fat - each one is always different looking and a good coppa is great.

The similarity between bacon and pancetta -

both are from the pork belly. That is as far is I can take it. It then branches out to all its different types - yes, the American stuff is cured - I remember using Brown Sugar, White Sugar, Cinnamon, Black Pepper, TCM, Salt, and Cloves. I think it was under the cure for ten days, with a rotation every day. Then smoked on the 11th - apple wood pref. for me!

As for a Lardo discussion - do you think the general American public, say in New York, San Francisco or Los Angeles would be open to trying cured pork fat??

JUST My $.02

Ore

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I'd actually say there is quite a lot of difference between American bacon and pancetta. Most American bacon, I'd guess, is more than likely industrially produced. . . By contrast, the best artisan produced pancetta is dry-cured in salt. . . I'd go so far to say that artisan-cured pancetta is just about as different from garden-variety American bacon as mortadella di Bologna - the real thing, massive, fragrant, delicious, to be carved by hand off its special trolley - is from Oscar Mayer baloney.

But you're comparing apples to oranges here. Why not compare garden-variety industrial American bacon to garden-variety industrial Italian pancetta? They are fundamentally very similar products, except that one is usually smoked.

...

Sam,

I cannot compare Italian and US industrial bacon, but I can do the comparison between Italian and UK or Italian and German industrial products without any problem, and yes, the Italian stuff wins hands down. Now, maybe I'm a bit biased. Yet if I think about the soggy stuff I would get at the Tesco's down the road in Cambridge and the dry cured industrial product from a company like Citterio or Negroni in Italy, products Italian gourmets sneer at, I can get in any Italian supermarket... well, I doubt I am. I could argue the reason for the difference is simply how extremely demanding we Italians are with our salumi but that would be only part of the story. We sure love our salumi, and in regions like Emilia Romagna, as Ore could probably tell, they're taken extremely seriously.

There are other aspects though, related to food laws and climate. Considering Italy's reputation for laws and respect for them, it might be strange to know that we had some of the tightest law concerning food additives until they had to be relaxed because of the pressure of northern European states in the EU, something which has stimulated quite a few of Slow Food's campaigns. This has actually prevented the production of industrial "monsters". The other thing to consider is that dry curing is something done without too much of a problem with a climate like the Italian one. I couldn't imagine the same happening in the UK (whereas the US clearly have an advantage, with such a range of climates).

and now sorry, I'm off to nibble a slice or two of that pancetta Toscana that's waiting for me in my fridge :biggrin: .

Il Forno: eating, drinking, baking... mostly side effect free. Italian food from an Italian kitchen.
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I would like to say that RAW is not RAW if it is cured meat... in my humble opinion.

I have never had RAW pancetta, always cured,, and then eaten un cooked.

I have had RAW sausage, a specialty here in Tuscany, often served blended in with stracchino cheese and served RAW on bread.

I worked with Dario Cecchini and his Burro del Chianti is RAW fat..lard... not cured and fabulous.

Lardo di colonatta is also cured, and eaten uncooked.

BACON vs PANCETTAvs SPECK

the cut of meat used for Bacon and pancetta is the same.

the curing process is different. we do not eat Pancetta RAW, again, cured but not cooked.

I can buy RAW pancetta and it is fabulous grilled.

Speck is a smoked prosciutto or perhaps spalla ( which would be the shoulder cut instead of the rump)

There is a tradition in northern Italy of smoked pork products, I can buy a whole rack of smoked chops, which then are to be cooked.

Their Pancetta is the same, not really bacon like as it is very rosy in color.it does substitute for bacon.. for my BLT's!

Mario Batali refered to Lardo di colonata as white prosicutto, I quess to let people know it is cured..

A BROAD, let's get together.. I am in FLorence since 1984.. from San Francisco!

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I just printed out this whole discussion so I can make some notes, as I've been similiarly confused.

A question: what exactly is guincale? My gigantic dictionary only mentions pillow, and the prosciutto pictured in my book does not resemble a pillow in the least.

Many thanks for all the good info!

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A question: what exactly is guincale?

Guanciale is made from the guancia di maiale - pig cheek or jowl, salted and cured in a similar fashion to pancetta. For Romans, it is indispensable for making bucatini all'amatriciana. The best guanciale I've enjoyed, however, comes from Calabria, cured with lots of salt and plenty of fiery peperoncino.

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Bacon and pancetta are both from the same cut of meat: the belly.  Bacon is most often smoked but not cured.  Pancetta is cured, and occasionally, on top of that, smoked.

Um, I'm not sure this is entirely correct. Pancetta is simply the Italian word for "bacon" -- which is to say, cured pork side meat. It just so happens that Americans tend to like their bacon cured and smoked whereas Italians tend to like theirs cured but not smoked (bacon, I should point out, is cured). I have often heard Italians say "pancetta affumicata" to refer to American-style bacon.

Fundamentally there is no difference between "American bacon" and pancetta affumicata, except perhaps in the style of smoking (although, of course, there are wide differences in the style of smoking within the category of "American bacon" as well).

Just to clarify for non-American egulleters, panchetta is derived from the pancia, which means belly. It is essentially cured pork belly and there are many forms.

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I'm wondering if I bought a block of pancetta, how long would it stay fresh in the fridge?

Given the increased scrutiny at Customs these days, the pancetta would likely never see the inside of your fridge. Unless it's inside a can, meat rarely makes it past the inspectors. Stuffing a cured pork belly down your pants is one option, but it could lead to 'extraordinary rendition.'

Jim

olive oil + salt

Real Good Food

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I think pancetta is becoming increasingly popular and available here in the U.S. In Philly's Italian Market, at least two stores sell it, including d'Angelo Brothers, where Sonny makes it himself. He's also started making guanciale from his father's recipe, and it's better (and cheaper) than Niman Ranch. I happened upon some Niman Ranch lardo in a store in Oakland last spring, so that's available here as well. Since it's waaaaay too expensive to order, I mentioned it to good ole' Sonny, and he's gonna start in with lardo soon as well.

Edited by cinghiale (log)
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I cannot compare Italian and US industrial bacon, but I can do the comparison between Italian and UK or Italian and German industrial products without any problem, and yes, the Italian stuff wins hands down. Now, maybe I'm a bit biased. Yet if I think about the soggy stuff I would get at the Tesco's down the road in Cambridge and the dry cured industrial product from a company like Citterio or Negroni in Italy, products Italian gourmets sneer at, I can get in any Italian supermarket... well, I doubt I am. I could argue the reason for the difference is simply how extremely demanding we Italians are with our salumi but that would be only part of the story. We sure love our salumi, and in regions like Emilia Romagna, as Ore could probably tell, they're taken extremely seriously.

:smile: Don't get me wrong... I am as much an Italophile as anyone, and I definitely prefer the Italian product.

I can't really speak to the UK and German products. English bacon is really an entirely different thing, what with the whole back/streaky/middle/collar/Gammon/Wiltshire/etc. thing (and let's not even get started on Canadian peameal bacon). I'd say that run-of-the-mill industrial American bacon is typified by Oscar Meyer's product. It's moister than run-of-the-mill Citterio or Negroni pancetta, but it's overall a very good product. Cooked crisp, which is the way American bacon is designed to be consumed, I wouldn't say Oscar Meyer bacon is at all inferior to Citterio or Negroni pancetta, however prepared/consumed. In fact, my experience is that Oscar Meyer bacon is actually better than Citterio or Negroni pancetta if both are cooked crisp. Now, this might be a situation of forcing the Italian product into the wrong context -- but it's no more a mistake than looking at Oscar Meyer bacon from the perspective of "would I eat this raw?"

--

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I'd say that run-of-the-mill industrial American bacon is typified by Oscar Meyer's product.  It's moister than run-of-the-mill Citterio or Negroni pancetta, but it's overall a very good product.  Cooked crisp, which is the way American bacon is designed to be consumed, I wouldn't say Oscar Meyer bacon is at all inferior to Citterio or Negroni pancetta, however prepared/consumed.  In fact, my experience is that Oscar Meyer bacon is actually better than Citterio or Negroni pancetta if both are cooked crisp.  Now, this might be a situation of forcing the Italian product into the wrong context -- but it's no more a mistake than looking at Oscar Meyer bacon from the perspective of "would I eat this raw?"

Good point, I do not use pancetta either when I want a crispy rasher of bacon, though that happens very seldom. I can't think of an Italian dish where pancetta or guanciale is pan fried to a complete crisp. Even in carbonara and amatriciana you want a little bit of "chew" from those pancetta cubes.

I missunderstood your previous post: I thought you were objecting to the comparison between artisan and industrial product. I agree we're indeed talking about two completely different products. Now I only need to have a taste of that Oscar Meyer stuff to see if it stands up to Citterio's pancetta ... any experience in smuggling meat TO Europe :biggrin: ?

Il Forno: eating, drinking, baking... mostly side effect free. Italian food from an Italian kitchen.
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The last time I brought an undeclared item through US customs was Nov 2001. I had a nice block of bottarga, and while it wasn't meat or sausage I wasn't sure if it would be allowed in, so I double wrapped it, taped it with plastic packaging tape, and stuffed it in the back of pants with a shirt hanging over it.

I made it through, maybe because we always declare our legal food (cheese, canned stuff, cookies, etc) and the inspectors were busy inspecting. But security was much tighter (this was right after 9/11), and a few minutes after we'd cleared the area I pulled out my bottarga and realized the plastic wrapped and taped little square looked pretty suspicious.

I know others who've made it through with other meat items, but an 8-lb culatello might be hard to hide. You can always try, but I hate to think of all that nice pork getting tossed (or eaten by some customs inspector).

Jim

olive oil + salt

Real Good Food

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I still need to verify this, but was told that customs has realy cracked down and now you can't bring parmesan back legally????

Anyone know about that?

Ore... I sure would hate to lose a culatello!

I know my mom had her tiny wild boar salami's which were vacuum packed confiscated..

The only way I can think of making it smaller is to slice it and vacuum pack it sliced... but it truely loses a lot the minute it is sliced..

see you soon

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The last time I brought an undeclared item through US customs was Nov 2001. I had a nice block of bottarga, and while it wasn't meat or sausage I wasn't sure if it would be allowed in, so I double wrapped it, taped it with plastic packaging tape, and stuffed it in the back of pants with a shirt hanging over it.

Awesome, Jim, a bottarga taped to your butt. Imagine if the sniffer dogs had got a whiff of that one? You're right, it probably looked not disimilar to certain smokeable substances, but would have been far more pungent. Way to go in getting this past the b****ds!

As for a whole culatello, that is just too big - and too much money - to risk, I'd say. I recall when there was for some reason a ban on bringing Spanish embutidos into Britain. We drove off the Santander-Plymouth ferry boat and through the Green Channel (as there was in those pre-EU days) and I remember seeing HM Customs (who are match in the bastard stakes to any in the world) confiscating some poor Spaniard's jámon ibérico. The tears and recriminations were as if they'd taken away his child.

A story in reverse. After my mother died, my sister and I decided to scatter her ashes in the sea off the Aeolian island of Alicudi. We were to travel over from Britain; my sister from America with the ashes. Now she knew that Italians aren't all that comfortable with cremation and that Italian customs officers, true to occupational breed, can be as nasty as any in the world. Certainly, she conjectured, they were likley to be less than sympathetic and understanding. Sure enough, sod's law, for some reason they pulled her aside, probably because she was looking worried and guilty. Naturally they went through her bags, and came across the container with the ashes. It puzzled them greatly for the quantity of ash is considerable and of a heaviness and density far beyond most white powders. My sister didn't know what to say. There was the risk that she'd travelled halfway across the world only for our mother to be confiscated; or worse, she suddenly realised: that the white powder could well be mistaken for anything, cocaine, heroin...she'd be locked up, they'd throw away the key. When questioned, it came upon her suddenly in a flash: fango! American volcanic mud, for beauty treatment, she said, feigning scrubbing her face. Le donne, muttered the customs officers, rolled their eyes, and waved her through.

MP

Edited by Marco_Polo (log)
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Divinia: I checked US Customs regs in the past few months and parmesan is OK to bring in (hard, cured cheese are ok). For now.

But Ore: I've seen weeping people have their sausages and salumi taken away at the customs counter...so think about this. Unless your socks are really smelly....

Yesterday we wound up in Norcia, salumi and pancetta heaven. We brought a few different types home, but there was enought there to make your head spin!!

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HATHOR...pictures...please...pictures!!!

You can see some pictures of my de-boning a prosciutto on my blog!

What about shipping to the US - for personal use vs. for commercial - we are still speaking of cured pork products (boneless of course)...possible?

Ore

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The taste test...

This is the food in question

gallery_23424_833_56511.jpg

In the oven

gallery_23424_833_149329.jpg

Draining a little fat

gallery_23424_833_356759.jpg

A Sunday morning American breakfast

gallery_23424_833_279829.jpg

Definitely not bacon. At least American style. Good, though very salty and a lot firmer than the American counterpart. I'll have American bacon by the end of the week (I have access to American food in Italy...ribeye, Franks Hot Sauce, Starbucks anyone?!) and will post the results happily.

Edited by A_Broad (log)
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When questioned, it came upon her suddenly in a flash: fango! American volcanic mud, for beauty treatment, she said, feigning scrubbing her face. Le donne, muttered the customs officers, rolled their eyes, and waved her through.

Great story! :laugh:

Thanks.

I don't understand why rappers have to hunch over while they stomp around the stage hollering.  It hurts my back to watch them. On the other hand, I've been thinking that perhaps I should start a rap group here at the Old Folks' Home.  Most of us already walk like that.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Anyone ever succesfuly 'smugle' any cured or raw meats into the US??  I am thinking of taking one of my culatelli back with me - side - about a soccer ball - weight - about 8 pounds - what do you think??

Ore

Hi Ore,

If you get caught they just take it away. You don't get busted like drugs. I got some foie gras through pre 911. The beagle sat down next to our bag but we had a cat there too and the lady thought he sat because of the cat and she kept on going :rolleyes:

By the way Eric gave us some of the Pancetta and it's GREAT!

Regards, Ed

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If you get caught they just take it away. You don't get busted like drugs.

Not so fast. According to the U.S. Customs website:

Prohibited items that are not declared by passengers are confiscated and disposed of by CBP agriculture specialists. But that’s not all. Civil penalties may be assessed for violations and may range up to $1,000 for a first-time offense. Depending on whether the confiscated, undeclared items are intentionally concealed, or determined to be for commercial use, civil penalties may be assessed as high as $50,000 for individuals. The same fines apply to prohibited agricultural products sent through the international mail.

I got nabbed with three homemade Rotewurst from Hungary. Story: On clearing customs in Philly once, my wife inadvertently headed toward the scanners instead of "nothing to declare". Before she could correct her course, the agent asked her to place all of our bags on the belt. As the bags pass thru the scanner, the inspector says, "One sausage in this bag; two sausages in here." I don't know how they do it. They were gonna fine us $50/wurst. A quick glance between us, and my wife brings on the tears, while I'm "yelling" at her for trying something so stupid. They let us off. Also, if you're caught "smuggling", you may end up on some sort of list, forcing you to submit to inspections upon every entry.

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"Also, if you're caught "smuggling", you may end up on some sort of list, forcing you to submit to inspections upon every entry."

Hehe...I think I am already on that list!

Swiss Chef...any photos? I hope you used an electric slicer for super thin slices!

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