Italian Cookbooks – The Best Of

[giuliochef]

If you start to cook italian a very useful book is also "Il cucchiao d'argento". You can read a big part of the book here (free registration).

[Bill Klapp]

Now I'm fired for sure! Yep, that's the book. You are quite right to point out that he is a contributor, not a co-author. I did read elsewhere, however, that he and Joe (but not Lynch) did a lot of the "research" together. One guy's opinion, I do not like that book. In the wake of people like Sheldon Wasserman, Burton Anderson, Nick Belfrage (and the list goes on), it doesn't rate.

[cinghiale]

I recently picked up Julia della Croce's Umbria: Regional Recipes from the Heartland of Italy and it seems pretty representative of the food I had last fall during a two-week trip through Umbria. The recipes are a little light on technique (I'm still having trouble mastering the umbricelli [i'm using spelt flour]), but some odd-sounding combinations have turned out great -- like sausage braised with black grapes.

Edited August 14, 2003 by Jason Perlow (log)

[slkinsey]

For those of you who can read Italian, the true bible of Italian regional cooking is "LE RICETTE REGIONALI ITALIANE" by Anna Gosetti della Salda, ed. Solares.

This book is famous in Italy, and has been reprinted many times from its first edition, about 30 years ago.

Anyone have an ISBN number or possible purchase information for this? Is there a current Italian edition in print?

[MatthewB]

For those of you who can read Italian, the true bible of Italian regional cooking is "LE RICETTE REGIONALI ITALIANE" by Anna Gosetti della Salda, ed. Solares.

This book is famous in Italy, and has been reprinted many times from its first edition, about 30 years ago.

Anyone have an ISBN number or possible purchase information for this? Is there a current Italian edition in print?

A Google provided the following:

Le Ricette regionali italiane | 1ª ed.

Anna Gosetti della Salda

Cartonato | 1106 pagine | Solares | 1999 | ISBN 889002190X

[pirate]

I looked at my bookshelf and found three books not mentioned. They are physically beautiful books almost works of art by themselves (that's why I bought them) written in Italian with Engish

translations. Not knowing Italian I don't know how good the English translations are.

All were published by Editrice de "Il Vespro" Addresses in Milano and Palermo.

1. Antonella Santolini "Roma in Bocca" (1976) Preface by Piero Chiara

2. Ambra Ferrarri "Emilia in Bocca" (1977) Preface byFranco Cristofori

3. Grazietta Butazzi "Toscana in Bocca" (1977) Preface by Tino Buazzelli

[mikeycook]

There are a lot of top chefs who have their own cook books. I know there are cook books from restaurants like Sadler, Dal Pescatore, La Pergola, etc. Are you also interested in these kind of Italian cook books?

I am interested in particular restaurant cookbooks if the chefs in question have been highly influential to other chefs. For instance, with French chefs, I have a number of Paul Bocuse's books, as well as Roger Verge, the Troisgros brothers, etc., because their restaurants have been common stepping stones by today's top chefs and their nouvelle style of cuisine has been a huge influence over French cuisine (and still is). The only problem with restaurant cookbooks is that they tend to run in trends. I love Babbo and am interested in Batali's cooking, but Babbo hasn't been around long enough to have developed other top chefs who now own their own top restaurants (this may become the case, but it is not currently so.)

That being said, there are definitely restaurant cookbooks (example: French Laundry Cookbook) that are currently influencing other top chefs. If you feel a contemporary cookbook meets these characteristics, I am still interested (I probably will pick up the Babbo cookbook eventually, but reading it now I feel like I am reading in a vacuum. I would like to learn more about his predeccesors before tackling it.)

Out of curiousity, do folks believe Batali's influence will still be felt in 20 years?

[tanabutler]

I am so reluctant to trust Mario Batali because his pasta sauce at Trader Joe's is the worst-tasting, oversalted glop I've ever had. Seriously.

I think I need to ignore that fact.

[mikeycook]

I am so reluctant to trust Mario Batali because his pasta sauce at Trader Joe's is the worst-tasting, oversalted glop I've ever had. Seriously.

I think I need to ignore that fact.

I am a fan of the Rao's sauces, although they are pricey (and of course, homemade is still the best.)

[tanabutler]

(and of course, homemade is still the best.)

Absolutely—but sometimes I just need something quick for the kids.

</off topic>

[Craig Camp]

(and of course, homemade is still the best.)

Absolutely—but sometimes I just need something quick for the kids.

</off topic>

Be kind to your children!

You have to admire both Batali and Hazan for their ability and understanding of how to come close to reproducing Italian food in the United States. Not an easy thing to do. My grocery store here can make anyone look like a great Italian cook. To do the same thing in the USA takes real thought and sensitivity. They both have it.

[Bill Klapp]

But Mario and Marcella in the same breath? He of the day-glo orange clogs, and she of classic Italian style and grace? OK, I'll give it up now! I know that she lacked the NY platform, but she (followed by her son, a chef) did a fantastic job in the 1990s with an Atlanta restaurant called Veni Vedi Vici.

[russ parsons]

marcella hardly lacked a new york platform. that was where she was discovered, teaching cooking classes. it was a profile in the new york times that launched her career. and while i'll agree that mario comes across slightly buffoonish (that's part of his charm, for me), he's a dead serious cook and really knows his stuff. more important, he treats the cuisine with a great deal of respect. don't let the ponytail, shorts and clogs fool you.

[Bill Klapp]

Fair point, Russ. I was thinking of a RESTAURANT platform, which Mario obviously has and, to my knowledge, Marcella did not. I also accept that Mario is serious about what he does, and do not deny the respect that he shows the food. I will reiterate, however, that what he does is his own adaptive thing, and, in my view, not really competitive with the best that Italy has to offer. The food may be tasty, but I do not see any real depth in what Mario does. His personal style is a little smug and preachy, and while he may be telling his Food Network audience things that they do not know, I find his knowledge of Italian food to be thin and based mostly upon the obvious. I think that, to move to the next level, he needed to have studied in Italy for a longer time over a broader range, and his celebrity may have stifled that. In my view, Alain Ducasse's food at Louis XV in Monte Carlo, presumptively French, is much more authentically Italian (largely Ligurian, in that case) than Mario's, which does not make Mario a bad chef or a bad guy, but just not the genuine item for me.

[Priscilla]

The Ada Boni Italian Regional Cooking mentioned above by Moby is just a stupendous and beautiful book ... it has never been stymied, even when asked to cough up the MOST obscure research. I got a copy in the 1980s after starting on Marcella Hazan's first two books, which I prefer to the condensed and edited Essentials of reissue.

I suppose I am generally suspicious of "updating" recipes. The newer book (1992) does reflects the much greater ease in finding ingredients, a huge change from the 1970s of the originals. Of COURSE I hadda buy it when it came out, and I have given it as a gift many times, but The Classic Italian Cookbook and More Classic Italian Cooking are the loose-spined overused ones on my Italian shelf.

I have found Mario Batali's work to be greatly complementary to Marcella's, as I proceed along my personal Italian-cookery continuum ... some people find one or both excessively doctrinaire, however.

[Craig Camp]

while i'll agree that mario comes across slightly buffoonish (that's part of his charm, for me), he's a dead serious cook and really knows his stuff. more important, he treats the cuisine with a great deal of respect. don't let the ponytail, shorts and clogs fool you.

Don't let that horrible and insulting "Mario Eats Italy" confuse the fact that he does in fact understand Italian cooking and perhaps more importantly for people in the USA knows how to translate the dishes using available American ingredients. I found his regular show on Food Network the only show on the channel worth watching.

Underneath all the hoopla he knows more about Italian cooking than most of us can ever dream of.

By the way I don't want the defend Batali job.

[Craig Camp]

that what he does is his own adaptive thing, and, in my view, not really competitive with the best that Italy has to offer.

Adapting is his strength. You have to adapt Italian cooking to practice it in the USA.

[badthings]

I agree (just from watching the show) that Mario's approach to the food is impeccable. I just don't know why one would want to try to emulate the recipes, rather than the approach.

I am glad that people mentioned Rogers and Gray. Italian Country Cookbook is the best book about food I have ever read. Seriously. I didn't mention it initially because the request was for regional/non-restaurant books.

A quick google search turned up Le ricette regionali italiane for 40 Euros, + 20 Euros shipping to US. You might want to take the ISBN to a good local bookstore and see if they can order it. Thanks, Pongi, for the suggestion. Ada Boni appears to be out of print.

I really like the Lynch/Bastianich wine book, but another benefit of Plotkin's Friuli book is the extensive section on the wines. Your mouth will water and your wallet fall open...

Edited August 14, 2003 by badthings (log)

[Bill Klapp]

If Craig doesn't want the "defending Mario" job, then I'll stop picking on the big guy! I concede that he can cook up some of the best Italianate food in the U.S., but, as I observed to Craig with some sadness, that is not a very high bar to chin. The problem is that, with some exceptions, true Italian technique can be learned by most people who have a knack for cooking, but the essence of the cuisine is the best ingredients, simply prepared.

[russ parsons]

the essence of the cuisine is the best ingredients, simply prepared.

hmmm, i thought we'd agreed on another thread that was the true definition of california cuisine.

[MatthewB]

the essence of the cuisine is the best ingredients, simply prepared.

hmmm, i thought we'd agreed on another thread that was the true definition of california cuisine.

Which makes me wonder if we shouldn't bring up Kuh's argument that Tower learned to cook from reading Elizabeth David & Richard Olney on the bus to Chez Panisse?

[Bill Klapp]

Don't stir up trouble, Russ. I didn't visit that thread. For California cuisine, I'll accept "the best ingredients that the West Coast has to offer, SOMETIMES simply prepared (and sometimes, as elsewhere in America, merely expensive ingredients being heaped together in the "more is more" tradition)". More is rarely more on the sacred sod of Italia!

[russ parsons]

and then there is the fetishistic approach we west coasters have to what comes naturally and without thought to italian cooks. victor hazan once told me: "the difference between american chefs and italian chefs is that american chefs cook to surprise while italian chefs cook to reassure."

[tanabutler]

That's heavy, man.

No, seriously, it's got me thinking. Very interesting.

[Craig Camp]

and then there is the fetishistic approach we west coasters have to what comes naturally and without thought to italian cooks. victor hazan once told me: "the difference between american chefs and italian chefs is that american chefs cook to surprise while italian chefs cook to reassure."

That is reassuring but no surprise.