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Rien

Orgeat

338 posts in this topic

Has anyone tried this with ready-made almond milk?

I've made it, and it was quite decent, especially for the relatively small amount of work needed. However, Pacific recently changed the formula, and an "expert" on homemade orgeat has this to say about the new formula:

The "new and improved taste" claim had me concerned right off the bat. I think the only thing that should allow that to happen would be to use fresher almonds and less preservative. What are the odds of that?

Anyway, the taste of the new product is OK—no spectacular difference from the old. There is one problem with the new product that makes it useless for making Emergency Orgeat [orgeat using almond milk] and that's the fact that the microparticles in the milk do not settle and the milk is always lumpy. That means the only way to get rid of the thick suspended particles is to put it through a cheesecloth/filter bag process. If you have to go that route, it adds enough time and work that you might as well just make the orgeat completely from scratch.

More info - much, much more - about homemade orgeat can be found here:

http://www.tikiroom.com/tikicentral/bb/vie...69&forum=10&116

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Thanks for the link! After much reading, I ended up here at "Emergency Orgeat Syrup." I love that there is such a thing as an orgeat emergency! :laugh:

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Having spent the last hour peeling a half pound of almonds kernels, I cannot advise purchasing them with their skins on, unless you have a larger tolerance for tedious tasks than I. And I have a pretty large tolerance for tedious tasks.

Sure, they slip right out of those skins after being blanched and shocked. Maybe one in 10! The rest must be painstakingly peeled using your fingernails.


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Erik Ellestad

If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...

Bernal Heights, SF, CA

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Have you tried blasting them with the steam wand of your espresso machine? (You do have an espresso machine, right?) I've heard it works for hazelnuts, so it might be worth a shot!


Matthew Kayahara

Kayahara.ca

@mtkayahara

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Ha! No I don't have an espresso machine.

I'm unclear on exactly what I made. I was trying to halve feste's orgeat recipe, but it seems like it might have been too small to properly register on the candy thermometer.

It might be almond fudge when the smoke clears, but damn is it tasty.

My wife and I were having a hard time restraining ourselves from just eating it by the spoonful.

Whatever it is, it is amazingly more tasty than the Monin Orgeat.


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Erik Ellestad

If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...

Bernal Heights, SF, CA

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Finally, I’ve found the time to make my own (I got sidetracked making pimento dram).

To echo everyone else’s sentiments, the homemade is so much more interesting and complex than any bottled orgeat I’ve tried. Very much worth the minimal effort it take to create a batch.


"The only time I ever said no to a drink was when I misunderstood the question."

Will Sinclair

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One quick point about this homemade orgeat revealed when I kept my Mai Tai in crushed ice. As the ice melts, the nut oils (I assume) prevent the water from combining easily, and the drink gets sort of a weird mottled look. Not a problem with strained drinks, of course -- I didn't see any separating out with that Japanese #1 -- but with rocks drinks it's a little off-putting.

Curious; is there more than one Japanese cocktail?

Btw, I assume the separation is due to the fat in the emulsion. This is also my problem with "emergency orgeat" (although I have not made it); the almond oil is part of the syrup, and I have yet to find a full-fat commercial almond milk. Common products like Torani don't louche the way homemade stuff does. I assumed it was because they are essentially thickened sugar syrups flavored with extracts and do not have any fat in them. Does anyone know if the "emergency" stuff louches?


Small Hand Foods

classic ingredients for pre-prohibition era cocktails

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Curious; is there more than one Japanese cocktail?

Btw, I assume the separation is due to the fat in the emulsion. This is also my problem with "emergency orgeat" (although I have not made it); the almond oil is part of the syrup, and I have yet to find a full-fat commercial almond milk. Common products like Torani don't louche the way homemade stuff does. I assumed it was because they are essentially thickened sugar syrups flavored with extracts and do not have any fat in them. Does anyone know if the "emergency" stuff louches?

Cocktaildb lists three Japanese cocktails.

Japanese: Brandy, Orgeat, Boker's Bitters, lemon peel

Japanese Cocktail #1: brandy, lime juice or orange bitters, orgeat, Angostura bitters, lime slice garnish

Japanese Cocktail #2: gin, orgeat, lemon juice

re: commercial orgeat. Yeah, I think most are just flavoring and coloring. The ingredients on the Monin Almond Syrup I have are: Pure Cane Sugar, Water, Natural Almond Flavor. I guess the cloudiness comes from the Natural Almond Flavor?


---

Erik Ellestad

If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...

Bernal Heights, SF, CA

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Using the homemade stuff, I've made this tasty egg-white-free Pink Lady variation a few times:

  • 1 1/2 oz gin (Plymouth)
    1/2 applejack (Laird's bonded)
    1/2 lemon
    scant 1/2 orgeat
    dash grenadine

There's an obvious taste difference subbing egg whites for orgeat, of course, but the body of the drink is notably smooth, if not quite meringue-y.


Chris Amirault

camirault@eGstaff.org

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Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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Found the Yellow Mist on cocktaildb.com:

1 1/2 gin

1/2 Apry

1/2 orgeat

1/2 lemon

Not the most complex thing in the world, but it showcases the orgeat, particularly for those who "don't like cocktails," I'd think.

ETA: A bit too strong on the Apry; I'd cut back to 1/4 or less next time.


Edited by chrisamirault (log)

Chris Amirault

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It's been five or six weeks since I made my batch, and in the last few days I've noticed a drop in the quality related to mouthfeel and aroma. It's still very good, but it separates while in the fridge and doesn't seem to maintain the complexity of flavor that it had when I first made it. So I'm seconding Sam's recommendation to make smallish batches.

However, and more important, make batches.


Chris Amirault

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Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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[...]

Here's another recipe that's worked well. It's certainly worth tweaking to your own tastes. The rose water, in particular, is worth doling out with a light touch. I've never met François-Xavier, but I do like his site. It's worth checking out the link not only for directions, but for the handsome photography as well...

François-Xavier's Orgeat

[...]

mbrowley, thanks for reminding me of the orgeat recipe on FX Cuisine! I'd seen this a while ago, but sort of forgot about it.

The best part about it is by avoiding the blender and food processor, you run no risk of over processing your almonds.

I suspect, as long as your bottles are sanitized properly, with that much sugar, the risk of it going off are somewhere in the slim to nil category, even without adding alcohol (whose preservative qualities are vastly overrated, I might add.)


---

Erik Ellestad

If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...

Bernal Heights, SF, CA

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What exactly happens if you overprocess the almonds? I fear I might have done that this time around. The flavor and mouthfeel are off....


Chris Amirault

camirault@eGstaff.org

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Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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What exactly happens if you overprocess the almonds? I fear I might have done that this time around. The flavor and mouthfeel are off....

You end up with a lot of small pieces of vegetable matter that make it through your cheesecloth or strainer.

"Chalky" was the word someone used to describe my first batch of orgeat.

Also, instead of a consistent cloudy louche from just the almond oils, your cocktails will have a blotchy appearance like this Inca Cocktail:

gallery_27569_3038_560.jpg


Edited by eje (log)

---

Erik Ellestad

If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...

Bernal Heights, SF, CA

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My cocktail mentor, Weinoo, sent me a short e-mail: Make Orgeat Syrup.

Of course I obeyed, and I now have a bottle of orgeat syrup.

Uhmmm....now, what do I do with it?

Please don't say MaiTai because the chances of me finding curacao are slim to ridiculous. I live in the hinterlands, a cocktail wasteland, a mecca for cheap nasty gin and no rye.... (however, grzie dio and saints preserve us, the gelato is good).

We just had a little aperitivo of pastis, orgeat and a bit of water. That was nice, refreshing; but I've got a whole bottle of the stuff now!


Edited by hathor (log)

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My cocktail mentor, Weinoo, sent me a short e-mail: Make Orgeat Syrup.

Of course I obeyed, and I now have a bottle of orgeat syrup.

Uhmmm....now, what do I do with it?

Please don't say MaiTai because the chances of me finding curacao are slim to ridiculous. I live in the hinterlands, a cocktail wasteland, a mecca for cheap nasty gin and no rye.... (however, grzie dio and saints preserve us, the gelato is good).

We just had a little aperitivo of pastis, orgeat and a bit of water. That was nice, refreshing; but I've got a whole bottle of the stuff now!

If you can get brandy, I'd go for a Japanese cocktail (2 oz Cognac, 1/2 orgeat, 2 dashes Angostura), created by Jerry Thomas.

There is also a Japanese Cocktail #1 that involves some lime juice. Cocktaildb also lists a Japanese Cocktail #2 that involves gin and lemon juice but I haven't tried that one. It might be worth a shot if you've got the goods laying around.


nunc est bibendum...

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Japanese Cocktail

2 oz Cognac / 1/2 oz Orgeat / dash Angostura

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If you can't do a Mai Tai, how about a Fog Cutter?

Fog Cutter Recipe Comparison (Kaiser Penguin)

Trader Vic

        * 2oz light Puerto Rican rum

        * 1/2oz gin

        * 1oz brandy

        * 1oz orange juice

        * 2oz lemon juice

        * 1/2oz orgeat syrup

        * 1/2oz sherry

Shake with cube ice, strain into a tall glass filled with crushed ice.

    Source: Grog Log and Trader Vic’s Bartender’s Guide: Revised, Jeff Berry and Trader Vic

Though, to be honest the challenge in the Mai Tai really isn't the Orange Curacao so much as the orgeat and the proper rums. You can use Cointreau in a Mai Tai to no real deficit to the drink. To the best of my knowledge, Trader Vic was using DeKuyper Orange Curacao, fer cripes sake, when he made it up.

I made this Mai Tai variation last night, most excellent:

1 1/2 oz Appleton V/X

3/4 oz St. James Ambre

Juice 1 Lime

1 barspoon Luxardo Triplum

3 barspoons Home Made Orgeat


Edited by eje (log)

---

Erik Ellestad

If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...

Bernal Heights, SF, CA

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I've been playing with the recipe for the Japanese Cocktail this last week or so, and have substituted the lemon peel for fresh lemon juice to great effect.

It's an excellent drink, especially with Hennessy Fine de Cognac, as the orgeat works really well with the almond notes found in this particular cognac.

Adapted Japanese Cocktail

50ml Hennessy Fine de Cognac

25ml Fresh lemon juice

12.5ml Orgeat syrup

Dash Angostura bitters

Procedure - Shake & fine strain

Glass - Chilled cocktail

Garnish - Orange zest (compliments the orgeat/cognac)

I also found that it works well with Angostura orange bitters in place of the traditonal bitters.

Ratio - 2 - 1 - 0.5 (for those that use ounces)


Edited by evo-lution (log)

Evo-lution - Consultancy, Training and Events

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I would say that Grand Marnier is a better sub for Curacao in a Mai Tai, but Cointreau will certainly do no harm.


Andy Arrington

Journeyman Drinksmith

Twitter--@LoneStarBarman

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I would say that Grand Marnier is a better sub for Curacao in a Mai Tai, but Cointreau will certainly do no harm.

If it's true that Trader Vic was using the neutral spirits based Orange Curacao from DeKuyper when he created the Mai Tai, I'm not so sure that the brandy blended Grand Marnier (or even the Brizard Orange Curacao) is the most "authentic" choice.

Have you done comparative taste tests? I've mixed with Grand Marnier so infrequently, I'm not even really sure what it brings to a cocktail.


---

Erik Ellestad

If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...

Bernal Heights, SF, CA

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I would say that Grand Marnier is a better sub for Curacao in a Mai Tai, but Cointreau will certainly do no harm.

If it's true that Trader Vic was using the neutral spirits based Orange Curacao from DeKuyper when he created the Mai Tai, I'm not so sure that the brandy blended Grand Marnier (or even the Brizard Orange Curacao) is the most "authentic" choice.

Have you done comparative taste tests? I've mixed with Grand Marnier so infrequently, I'm not even really sure what it brings to a cocktail.

I personally think that Grand Marnier is too heavy for many of the places people try to use it (Margaritas, etc) though of course it's largely a matter of taste. I've made Mai Tais with Brizzard, modern DeKuyper, Cointreau, and Grand Marnier and my perference is for the Brizzard or Grand Marnier, depending on my mood that day (or what is available). The GM brings a nice richness to the drink while the MB is slightly cleaner, but retaining character, whereas I think Cointreau tastes a little too clean for this particular application. Modern DeKuyper, on the other hand, doesn't even really taste like orange when compared to the other products mentioned.

All that said, I didn't claim the substitution was the most authentic, I said it was 'better' --a subjective claim to be sure but I think if you try it you'll agree. Authenticity for it's own sake is a fun and usually delicious way to go about making drinks, but if that means I've got to use an inferior product then I'll be inauthentic.

Of course I've never tried 1940's era imported DeKuyper Curacao (how was that stuff so common with the Nazis in control of the Dutch distilleries?). I'd be curious if anyone ever has....Dr. Cocktail?


Andy Arrington

Journeyman Drinksmith

Twitter--@LoneStarBarman

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I personally think that Grand Marnier is too heavy for many of the places people try to use it (Margaritas, etc) though of course it's largely a matter of taste. I've made Mai Tais with Brizzard, modern DeKuyper, Cointreau, and Grand Marnier and my perference is for the Brizzard or Grand Marnier, depending on my mood that day (or what is available). The GM brings a nice richness to the drink while the MB is slightly cleaner, but retaining character, whereas I think Cointreau tastes a little too clean for this particular application. Modern DeKuyper, on the other hand, doesn't even really taste like orange when compared to the other products mentioned.

All that said, I didn't claim the substitution was the most authentic, I said it was 'better' --a subjective claim to be sure but I think if you try it you'll agree. Authenticity for it's own sake is a fun and usually delicious way to go about making drinks, but if that means I've got to use an inferior product then I'll be inauthentic.

Of course I've never tried 1940's era imported DeKuyper Curacao (how was that stuff so common with the Nazis in control of the Dutch distilleries?). I'd be curious if anyone ever has....Dr. Cocktail?

All that makes sense. I've never made a study of the DeKuyper Orange Curacao. Had it in drinks at bars. Don't remember it making an impression. They do use it at Forbidden Island. I can say I don't think much of the Bols Orange (or Blue) Curacao sold in this country.

I've not had a chance to try it, but I have heard good things about the European version of Bols Dry Orange Curacao in a Mai Tai. I'm hoping to run into Philip Duff at Tales of the Cocktail this year. If I do, I'll be sure and hit him up for a sample.

Just wish someone could convince Bols to sell that version of the Dry Orange Curacao in this country.

I do continue to like the Luxardo Orange Triplum as a Curacao substitute. It's got the strongest pure orange flavor of the bunch and is a bit sweeter than Cointreau.


---

Erik Ellestad

If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...

Bernal Heights, SF, CA

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I recently compared two Mai Tais, one with Marie brizard Orange Curacao and another with Senior Curacao of Curacao. The MB was better, but not by a whole lot, but one probably wouldn't notice the difference unless sipped side-by-side.

My goal this weekend is to compare a number of "new to me" orange liqueurs, and compare a number of them in Mai Tais.

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