Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Hot Ice Cream


reuvens
 Share

Recommended Posts

I SAW A TV SHOW WHERE ADRIA TOLD THE REPORTER THAT HOT ICECREAM IS ONE THING HE WANTS TO DO IN THE FUTURE. ON WWW.MOTORESTAURANT.COM I FOUND IT ALREADY ON THE MENU. IS MR. ADRIA NOT MISTER "FIRST" ANYMORE?

The culinary Dali strikes again! A variation, perhaps, on the theme of deep-fried ice cream? Or foam-master’s piercing of the curtain into something more outré?

"Dinner is theater. Ah, but dessert is the fireworks!" ~ Paul Bocuse

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has been more than five years since the drive for hot ice cream began at el bulli,

many have attempted to make it, without regarding this source of inspiration,

if moto has achieved it, it is a very big achievement.

It would require a gelling agent that gels hot and is liquid cold.

Any thoughts?

The culinary Dali strikes again!  A variation, perhaps, on the theme of deep-fried ice cream?  Or foam-master’s piercing of the curtain into something more outré?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what counts as Hot Icecream. Whate distinguishes hot icecream from a mousse?

The late Professor Kurti used to demonstrate his version: an icecream block with a hot liquid jam centre. Put in the microwave, the liquid jam adsorbed the microwaves and heated preferentially to the solid ice cream...

People have been making freeze-dried ice cream for some time. This stable at room temperatue, and can even be heated.

Edited by jackal10 (log)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm.. not much goes from solid to liquid as it cools.

A few things (hydrocolloids, like cornflour custard being one, pitch being another) are non-newtonian and behave more like liquid the less you stir, but I can't see how to use that.

I guess you need a two component system, that liquifies as the reaction proceeds.

The old fashioned After-eight type mint centres liquify with time because of enzymatic action, but 50-60C would be too hot for that, and the timescale too short. Nowdays I believe they just freeze the centres before enrobing.

Or just have the visual effect and flambe the icecream, pouring burning liquor over hard icecream at service..Cerises Jubilee anyone?

Edited by jackal10 (log)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

hot ice cream has the texture like ice cream with a temp. between 50-60 C. it starts melting at about 37 C which is bodytemp.

The other night I made a chocolate pudding that was not far from that when it was still warm in the pot, before it was refrigerated. Except of course it didn't melt. Which at the time I didn't see as a drawback. So I guess I should have served it right off the stovetop and told the wife it was "hot ice cream."

"I think it's a matter of principle that one should always try to avoid eating one's friends."--Doctor Dolittle

blog: The Institute for Impure Science

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there is a product with these exact gelling attributes.  have samples on the way.  first learned about the product from wylie at wd-50.

will see what happens

cheers

could someone ask at restaurant moto? is hoticecream? or icecream with a hot center? hurry up adria ferran is on his way for sure

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is the ing. you're wondering about 'Gellan'?

I've seen it mentioned a bunch in articles on WD50, in particular, that Food and Wine article 'Pastry Provocateurs'(SIC?).

I've heard rumours that the "papers" that the WD50 guys and Grant Achatz are into use that vegetable starch paper that's used for photographs on B-Day cakes, etc.

Would love to hear more about the hot ice cream as it develops!

2317/5000

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the concept on the hot ice cream is not in the temperature of it. When I worked with Heston Blumenthal he had mentioned that he wanted to do this very same topic. Basically the conclusion was the same effect that you get when you chew on Big Red Gum, or like the dinner mint jackal mentioned. I am going to be working with food chemists and scientists in a major flavor lab. This will be something to tackle. 2 things that sparked my interest with them are that he can make any shit chocolate taste superior or equal to any on the market (including Vahlrona). Second was that without the addition of honey or flavors to make up honey in a bread recipe (as he says the flavors dissolve during baking. With his new technology he is able to combine the ingredients in the recipe so that while it is cooking all the flavors mesh together to form the flavor of honey. Seafood extract collagen shots are in the works. Many exciting things. The have a 14ft by 30 ft. wall of any flavor you can imagine from A-Z. Will post topics soon on new ideas and technical info.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm thinking good atempt with the gellan, but there are no verying texture there. Ice cream is not one thing through out, more soft on the outside than on the in. There has to be a differnt way to go about this.

Cory Barrett

Pastry Chef

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We do have a number of diverse flavor/temperature/texture profiles for hot ice cream. I would be here all day explaining the procedures and special patented equipment I have used to create hot ice cream. The work began last year in august when I was waiting for moto to develop. I spent countless hours in my kitchen at home working with various gelling agents like carrageenan, sodium alginate..........below is a post from last year during my menu formulation period for moto......

Posted on: Aug 27 2003, 02:13 PM

member

Posts: 504

Joined: 7-May 03

Member No.: 8,428

You can follow these instructions to create edible polymer strands. The ingredients necessary to produce the "caviars" are more commonly known as sodium alginate (sold here) and calcium chloride (sold here). The alginate/calcium chloride reaction is fairly easy to execute. The formula has existed in the industrialized food processing/preservation world for nearly 40 years now and is commonly used for maintaining freshness in transporting foodstuffs that dont freeze well.

Then a post later in the discussion..................

inventolux Posted on: Aug 30 2003, 05:13 PM

member

Posts: 504

Joined: 7-May 03

Member No.: 8,428

If you get a little crafty, you can create pouches of liquid suspended inside other pouches of liquid.

This process along with the use of liquid nitrogen, dry ice, calcium extracted from other "non-food" world sources, gelling agents like carrageenan and gellan have enabled the production of hot ice cream. Also my collaboration with a federally funded group of 15 scientists and engineers located here have enabled the production for the following options in producing hot ice cream.

1. A "scoop" of ice cream that consists of a frozen exterior and a hot liquid center.

2. A "scoop" if non-dairy vegan product that can be heated to 155F that has an ice cream texture and flavor.

3. A "scoop" of dairy product with the presence of anti-coagulants and the transfer of heat through a chemical process.

4. A "scoop" of product that can be frozen, then microwaved for 20 seconds to produce something that can be popped into your mouth like candy that has the texture of ice cream with heat applied to it.

I would like to take a minute to address my new teammates....Deep Labs.

"Deep Labs" has helped pave the way to produce hot ice cream (US patent pending) on a mass scale. They are also working on developing the inventolux company with its numerous patents. The company has nothing to do with food, they have engineers from every walk of life from an astrophysicist, to a plastics engineer, a number of pro-engineer software savvy professionals, a rocket scientist, and many more. (They have developed 90% of the surveillance

equipment for the FBI.) This is a major shift for me. Growing up I always read popular mechanics and entered every science competition in school, so hanging around these guys talking about how to make food lighter than air is complete euphoria. Watching leaders like chef achatz, adria and many others makes me realize more companies like deep labs should be more gastronomic focused and working directly with chefs that have an infatuation with science and science fiction.

They have an online magazine called Design Engine. Check it out, its cool stuff, and tons of fun.

-Omar-

Edited by inventolux (log)

Future Food - our new television show airing 3/30 @ 9pm cst:

http://planetgreen.discovery.com/tv/future-food/

Hope you enjoy the show! Homaro Cantu

Chef/Owner of Moto Restaurant

www.motorestaurant.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

keep up the good work

looking forward to future collaboration

or at least meeting of the minds

We do have a number of diverse flavor/temperature/texture profiles for hot ice cream. I would be here all day explaining the procedures and special patented equipment I have used to create hot ice cream. The work began last year in august when I was waiting for moto to develop. I spent countless hours in my kitchen at home working with various gelling agents like carrageenan, sodium alginate..........below is a post from last year during my menu formulation period for moto......

Posted on: Aug 27 2003, 02:13 PM

member

Posts: 504

Joined: 7-May 03

Member No.: 8,428

You can follow these instructions to create edible polymer strands. The ingredients necessary to produce the "caviars" are more commonly known as sodium alginate (sold here) and calcium chloride (sold here). The alginate/calcium chloride reaction is fairly easy to execute. The formula has existed in the industrialized food processing/preservation world for nearly 40 years now and is commonly used for maintaining freshness in transporting foodstuffs that dont freeze well.

Then a post later in the discussion..................

inventolux Posted on: Aug 30 2003, 05:13 PM

member

Posts: 504

Joined: 7-May 03

Member No.: 8,428

If you get a little crafty, you can create pouches of liquid suspended inside other pouches of liquid.

 

This process along with the use of liquid nitrogen, dry ice, calcium extracted from other "non-food" world sources, gelling agents like carrageenan and gellan have enabled the production of hot ice cream. Also my collaboration with a federally funded group of 15 scientists and engineers located here have enabled the production for the following options in producing hot ice cream.

1. A "scoop" of ice cream that consists of a frozen exterior and a hot liquid center.

2. A "scoop" if non-dairy vegan product that can be heated to 155F that has an ice cream texture and flavor.

3. A "scoop" of dairy product with the presence of anti-coagulants and the transfer of heat through a chemical process.

4. A "scoop" of product that can be frozen, then microwaved for 20 seconds to produce something that can be popped into your mouth like candy that has the texture of ice cream with heat applied to it.

I would like to take a minute to address my new teammates....Deep Labs.

"Deep Labs" has helped pave the way to produce hot ice cream (US patent pending) on a mass scale. They are also working on developing the inventolux company with its numerous patents. The company has nothing to do with food, they have engineers from every walk of life from an astrophysicist, to a plastics engineer, a number of pro-engineer software savvy professionals, a rocket scientist, and many more. (They have developed 90% of the surveillance

equipment for the FBI.) This is a major shift for me. Growing up I always read popular mechanics and entered every science competition in school, so hanging around these guys talking about how to make food lighter than air is complete euphoria. Watching leaders like chef achatz, adria and many others makes me realize more companies like deep labs should be more gastronomic focused and working directly with chefs that have an infatuation with science and science fiction.

They have an online magazine called Design Engine. Check it out, its cool stuff, and tons of fun.

-Omar-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

I read about Moto restaurant's hot Ice cream. It's a hot creme anglaise placed into a pipette with apple jelly for the apple pie. So it is not an ice cream per se'. I visited my reaction flavorist today that I am working on projects with and he came up with the conclusion of using capsicum (hope I spelled it correct) with a cooling agent added in as well. This would give the sensation that the ice cream is hot when it really is not. This method was used in a new companies approach on flavored (altoids). They are Machine pressed , not cut like altoids.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read about Moto restaurant's hot Ice cream. It's a hot creme anglaise placed into a pipette with apple jelly for the apple pie. So it is not an ice cream per se'. I visited my reaction flavorist today that I am working on projects with and he came up with the conclusion of using capsicum (hope I spelled it correct) with a cooling agent added in as well. This would give the sensation that the ice cream is hot when it really is not. This method was used in a new companies approach on flavored (altoids). They are  Machine pressed , not cut like altoids.

sounds interesting. can you tell us more ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I visited my reaction flavorist today that I am working on projects with and he came up with the conclusion of using capsicum (hope I spelled it correct) with a cooling agent added in as well.

Could you elaborate on the "cooling agent"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Yes, this is true to a certain extent. This was a concept we had put on the menu back in march. The procedure was the simplest we could come up with to execute a "hot ice cream". The procedure was very simple to create "chilled apple pie with hot ice cream".......

create two gelled coponents and one textural "foil"

1. gelled nutmeg & cinnamon ice cream

2. gelled granny smith apple pressed with the skins

3. pulverized "pie crust"

Procedure:

1. warm the anglaise and inject it into a 25ml pipette and chill it

2. warm the apple mixture and top off the anglaise and chill it to set it, leaving about a quarter inch for the pulverized pie crust

3. pack the pie crust in the top of the pipette and chill

4. to order place the pipette into a bath of hot water at 134f for 15 seconds. The water level should come just below the anglaise level. The anglaise will heat up, the apple pie will stay chilled and it will be ready for the diner to consume.

This procedure began to wear out its time. One way we strive for new procedures and ultimately new menu items is to take an existing dish and create a new dish with same exact ingredients and flavor profiles of the previous one. The maki is current form of an earlier idea. Simply put, it looks and tastes like maki. This is how the computer age advances so fast begin with a simple transistor and before you know it you are creating the next generations of microprocessors. Not a bad template for gastronomers.

First what does hot ice cream mean? Is it spicy? Is it an increase in temperature? Is it a temperature contrast, hot and frozen within the same entity?

Is it the texture of ice cream that has the ability to be heated to high temperatures without melting? To take this final question a step further can we take this form and make it "melt" like ice cream even at 140 degrees because of a reaction with human saliva? These are all questions that are all almost answered today at moto.

The earlier post is a procedure how we have created 4 types of hot ice cream - one new one since my last post. Here they are once again -

1. Hot in tempereature with the texture of frozen ice cream that does not melt in the mouth but maintains a "soft serve ability" as high as 350f.

2. Frozen exterior with a heated liquid center (as high as 90c) that the guest cracks open to reveal the hot liquid center.

3. A sphere of ice cream that when frozen, acts just like ice cream with a meltaway capability. Only one hemisphere is heated to 140f and the other is frozen and it doest melt until it breaks down with saliva.

4. The first generation pipette method.

Just this past wednesday I recieved a surprising phone call from chef Alberto Adrias translator. He said that alberto wanted to come over to see this hot ice cream. He sat down for a gtm and we demonstrated hot ice cream types 1 & 2. I with all honesty never thought anyone from el bulli would ever come to moto. It was surreal, humbling, exciting, nail biting and a small dream come true for my pastry chef, Benjamin Roche, the entire moto team, and myself.

All four forms should be on our "thats not really ice cream scoops" menu item in the near future.

It may also wind up in the New York Times article due out the first or second week of December in the technology section. Keep an eye out, there are also some new thigs the writer may cover that for us at moto, in my opinion, are way more exciting than hot ice cream, and offer many more possobilities for human consumption and a more cerebral dining experience.......to be continued.

I read about Moto restaurant's hot Ice cream. It's a hot creme anglaise placed into a pipette with apple jelly for the apple pie. So it is not an ice cream per se'. I visited my reaction flavorist today that I am working on projects with and he came up with the conclusion of using capsicum (hope I spelled it correct) with a cooling agent added in as well. This would give the sensation that the ice cream is hot when it really is not. This method was used in a new companies approach on flavored (altoids). They are  Machine pressed , not cut like altoids.

Edited by inventolux (log)

Future Food - our new television show airing 3/30 @ 9pm cst:

http://planetgreen.discovery.com/tv/future-food/

Hope you enjoy the show! Homaro Cantu

Chef/Owner of Moto Restaurant

www.motorestaurant.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It certainly shouldn't be impossible to create a dish with a hot or warm interior and a cold exterior -- the reverse of the deep fried ice cream mentioned above. Make a sphere of ice cream with a hollowed out centre, then at service use a pipette to fill that centre with a very hot filling e.g. warmed Grand Marnier, and re-seal the sphere.

But by "hot ice cream" do you mean something with the texture of ice cream, but warm?

Jonathan Day

"La cuisine, c'est quand les choses ont le go�t de ce qu'elles sont."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...