Induction Cooktops

[TheAvidHomeChef]

On 5/22/2023 at 8:10 PM, afs said:

I believe that the GE Profile cooktop has a regular induction burner (no temperature sensor), but that it has Bluetooth and Hestan Cue pan compatibility.  In other words, it would use the built-in temperature sensors in the Hestan Cue pans to report the pan temperature.  If you love the Hestan Cue pans, that might be a good match.

The main built-in cooktop I've seen with a pan temperature sensor is this one from Miele.  It has an IR (non-contact) sensor on one hob.  I'm not sure how one calibrates it, how well it works with pans that don't have clean bottoms, or how easy it is to clean.  But it has me intrigued

https://www.miele.com/brand/en/tempcontrol-28475.htm

No, this is a new one I believe. Yes, you still need the Hestan Cue app. You need an iPad or other mobile device for the recipe guidance.

 

 

 

The miele one  definitely looks interesting. I can see more and more established manufacturers are going this way with the sensor on glass tops. 

 

The Hestan Cue pans are not great, to be honest. It makes a lot of noise when cooking. And its Bluetooth is quite a hassle to use. Also, have to twist the cap to turn it on and off every time you cook.

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by TheAvidHomeChef (log)

[afs]

26 minutes ago, TheAvidHomeChef said:

No, this is a new one I believe. Yes, you still need the Hestan Cue app. You need an iPad or other mobile device for the recipe guidance.

Interesting, thanks for the post.  This looks like the cooktop that GE has been showing off for about two years (and seemed to be shipping as part of the "CAFE" line).  I haven't been able to find any information on the cooktop in the U.S. 

Is it an international-only model?  Is it induction-based, or does it have traditional heating coils underneath the surface?

It's curious that some videos show pan temperature control via the pan and others (like the one before) seem to indicate that they've put a single thermocouple-based, spring-loaded sensor on one hob.  I'm hoping to track down a product spec sheet and user manual, somewhere.

I'd love to see a build-in unit with four burners, all using technology and spring-loaded sensors similar to the Control Freak, and varying in coil diameters (one or two big ones, and the rest medium-sized).

[afs]

I dug up a little more information on that GE cooktop (and its CAFE counterpart)--the one which appears to have a contact temperature sensor.  It looks like the unit is a slide-in 30 inch range (oven and cooktop combo).

 

Here is the GE version, with a touchscreen:

https://www.geappliances.com/appliance/GE-Profile-30-Smart-Slide-In-Front-Control-Induction-Fingerprint-Resistant-Range-with-In-Oven-Camera-PHS93XYPFS

Here is the (GE) CAFE version, with knobs for basic operation and capacitive buttons for advanced operations and for operating the stove:
https://www.cafeappliances.com/appliance/Cafe-30-Smart-Slide-In-Front-Control-Induction-and-Convection-Range-with-In-Oven-Camera-CHS90XP2MS1

Here are the manuls:
https://products-salsify.geappliances.com/image/upload/s--arNbW4SJ--/1126fd97a45e8b5019752efdd551b52bf1cc1d22.pdf
https://products-salsify.geappliances.com/image/upload/s--EMiiVzJi--/ee8b4d87498af4ee3253ef14c8b59573b97a2a11.pdf

Here are a few things I noticed in the manuals:

• The front left burner has a temperature sensor.
• When in precision cooking mode, one sets the target temperature for the burner.  It looks like the oven may only show the target temperature for the pan, rather than the current temperature of the pan.  It does have a preheating indication.
• In precision cooking mode, the cooktop wants to know if the pan is stainless steel or cast iron or "other".
• Hestan Cue pans can be used with any of the four burners, with a temperature sensor in the pan.
• Only one burner can be used in "precision" mode at the same time.
• They tend to talk about temperature in 5, 10 or usually 25 degree increments, Fahrenheit.  So the temperature accuracy and precision is probably not in the same neighborhood as the Control Freak.

It looks like this might effectively be a budget version of the Control Freak concept.  It's interesting, for sure.  I think that "precision cooking" in the traditional sense might be a bit of a stretch of the term, but precision is a general concept so it's not necessarily inaccurate.

Edited May 27, 2023 by afs (log)

[afs]

This video says that the front-left burner on the GE CAFE induction range is accurate within 1 degree.  Very interesting.  Now how do I find somewhere to test one out...
 

 

[palo]

https://www.canadianappliance.ca/product/Cafe_CCHS900P2MS1_Range_Cafe_CCHS900P2MS1.html

 

Might have one in stock😁

 

p

[TheAvidHomeChef]

On 5/27/2023 at 4:41 PM, afs said:

Here are a few things I noticed in the manuals:

• The front left burner has a temperature sensor.
• When in precision cooking mode, one sets the target temperature for the burner.  It looks like the oven may only show the target temperature for the pan, rather than the current temperature of the pan.  It does have a preheating indication.
• In precision cooking mode, the cooktop wants to know if the pan is stainless steel or cast iron or "other".
• Hestan Cue pans can be used with any of the four burners, with a temperature sensor in the pan.
• Only one burner can be used in "precision" mode at the same time.
• They tend to talk about temperature in 5, 10 or usually 25 degree increments, Fahrenheit.  So the temperature accuracy and precision is probably not in the same neighborhood as the Control Freak.

It looks like this might effectively be a budget version of the Control Freak concept.  It's interesting, for sure.  I think that "precision cooking" in the traditional sense might be a bit of a stretch of the term, but precision is a general concept so it's not necessarily inaccurate.

 On the manual for the Cafe one, it says the temperature range for the precision burner is 100F to 425F. That does sound like it's not as precise as the Control Freak. But again, do you think there are recipes that need below 100F cooking temperature?

 

Something I also noticed that's different from the control freak is: the screen on this Cafe cooktop doesn't tell you the actual temperature. It only give you the number for the set temperature. This kind of defeats the purpose of the precise temperature. Knowing where I'm in the pre-heating is at is quite important. Here's a review that reveals something not so great about it:

 

 

 

 

It would be a better idea if the controls are displayed on the large screen above it. But I guess that's a separate product. It already got the recipe guidance. I don't why they can't put that up there.

[afs]

1 hour ago, TheAvidHomeChef said:

Something I also noticed that's different from the control freak is: the screen on this Cafe cooktop doesn't tell you the actual temperature. It only give you the number for the set temperature. This kind of defeats the purpose of the precise temperature. Knowing where I'm in the pre-heating is at is quite important. Here's a review that reveals something not so great about it:

 

Well you've convinced me to pull this one off my list of cooktops to investigate, at least in its current iteration.  An accurate measurement of the current temperature is something I use all the time on the Control Freak, and accuracy within a degree or two is pretty darn useful as well.


src: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cafe-5-7-cu-ft-slide-in-electric-induction-true-convection-range-with-steam-cleaning-and-in-oven-camera-customizable-stainless-steel/6360807.p?skuId=6360807

BTW, here's the photo from the reviewer on Best Buy's website who says that GE's cooktop temperature sensor isn't sealed well, and that it's a design issue rather than a faulty unit.  It looks like this is more of a spring-loaded temperature probe than the kind of clean integrated solution I'm used to with the Control Freaks.

 

I also noticed that the temperature sensor is on a small-to-medium coil, not on the larger coil.  I am not sure if it's useful for 24-28cm pans (~9-11") pans, or more useful for 14-20cm (~6"-8") pans.

Maybe one of these otherwise-capable companies could do a deal with Breville and bring their tech (still under patent in the U.S. market for probably another decade) to a range unit.  Or maybe other markets will see innovative large-format cooktops first, and then they can import them to us after we've salivated over them for a few years.

I hate to analyze appliances based on the reviews and photos of others and based on manuals which don't deep-dive into the kind of details that matter to me.  One of the GE stoves has gotten pretty great reviews otherwise, so perhaps this is just an unfortunate chink in otherwise good armor, a feature that shipped too early.

Edited June 18, 2023 by afs (log)

[TheAvidHomeChef]

On 6/18/2023 at 5:20 PM, afs said:

 

Well you've convinced me to pull this one off my list of cooktops to investigate, at least in its current iteration.  An accurate measurement of the current temperature is something I use all the time on the Control Freak, and accuracy within a degree or two is pretty darn useful as well.


src: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cafe-5-7-cu-ft-slide-in-electric-induction-true-convection-range-with-steam-cleaning-and-in-oven-camera-customizable-stainless-steel/6360807.p?skuId=6360807

BTW, here's the photo from the reviewer on Best Buy's website who says that GE's cooktop temperature sensor isn't sealed well, and that it's a design issue rather than a faulty unit.  It looks like this is more of a spring-loaded temperature probe than the kind of clean integrated solution I'm used to with the Control Freaks.

 

I also noticed that the temperature sensor is on a small-to-medium coil, not on the larger coil.  I am not sure if it's useful for 24-28cm pans (~9-11") pans, or more useful for 14-20cm (~6"-8") pans.

Maybe one of these otherwise-capable companies could do a deal with Breville and bring their tech (still under patent in the U.S. market for probably another decade) to a range unit.  Or maybe other markets will see innovative large-format cooktops first, and then they can import them to us after we've salivated over them for a few years.

I hate to analyze appliances based on the reviews and photos of others and based on manuals which don't deep-dive into the kind of details that matter to me.  One of the GE stoves has gotten pretty great reviews otherwise, so perhaps this is just an unfortunate chink in otherwise good armor, a feature that shipped too early.

 

I have also read reviews of GE's cafe line. Many of their product looks like Breville's, such as the coffee machine. It seems like they try to do affordable version of Breville's products which is great but their design is no where near Breville's. Like this temperature sensor should have a rubber silicone seal between the gaps. Only Breville can do this level of attention to details.

 

Recently I came across a startup company that's doing a similar product as the Control Freak but for the households. It's called Kitchen Automatique. I had a few email exchange with the co-founders already. Their product sound pretty promising!

 

 

[chromedome]

I just tripped across an interesting wrinkle on the whole theme of induction cooktops that's targeting the (substantial) number of households that aren't capable of supporting full-power induction without electrical upgrades. Their solution? Battery storage within the appliance, so the induction coil is powered directly from the battery (ie, wattage not limited by 120V wiring) and the direct electrical connection is used only for charging. Apparently at least one or two other startups are pursuing similar solutions.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2023-05/bto-peer-2023-copper-street.pdf

[dtremit]

On 1/2/2024 at 7:27 AM, chromedome said:

I just tripped across an interesting wrinkle on the whole theme of induction cooktops that's targeting the (substantial) number of households that aren't capable of supporting full-power induction without electrical upgrades. Their solution? Battery storage within the appliance, so the induction coil is powered directly from the battery (ie, wattage not limited by 120V wiring) and the direct electrical connection is used only for charging. Apparently at least one or two other startups are pursuing similar solutions.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2023-05/bto-peer-2023-copper-street.pdf

 

I believe that's how the upcoming Impulse cooktop works:

 

https://www.impulselabs.com

I'm not sure that $5500 for a 30" cooktop really addresses the segment of the market that's looking to avoid the cost of a 240v circuit, though they claim a significant percentage may be covered by tax incentives. Also looks like it's way too big to put an oven underneath.

 

The 10kw peak output per burner is intriguing, though — presumably a boost mode, but they claim to be able to boil a liter of water in 40 seconds.

 

If I had rooftop solar, this would definitely be an interesting option.

Edited March 27 by dtremit (log)