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Fresh ground pepper service at restaurants


Minister of Drink

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I enjoy ground pepper on much of the food I eat.

I would much prefer to have the mill on the table since

you usually only get one or two takes with the pepper from the

server.

Maybe a system like the rodizzio's use or small signs above the

table which flash the pepper sign would cut down on patrons stealing

those baseball bat sized pepper grinders.

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absolutely.  the concept that there's a "correct" amount of pepper that should go on a steak strikes me as absurd and naive.  among other things.

I agree with you, but there are more than a few high-end restaurants and chefs that disagree, leave both salt and pepper off the table and even include a brief eye-roll from the waiter if you request them.

I used to think that having the waiter bring the pepper grinder to the table was something mid-level restaurants (including places I worked) did to fool the rubes into thinking they were getting table-side service. But I read somewhere that many restaurants offer "pepper service" because customers steal on-table pepper mills at such alarming rates. When I worked at a swank French joint (we did not put salt and pepper on the tables, but I did not roll my eyes) they used to steal the little spoons from the salt-cellars, of all things (maybe it was a coke thing).

I'm on the pavement

Thinking about the government.

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I agree with you, but there are more than a few high-end restaurants and chefs that disagree, leave both salt and pepper off the table and even include a brief eye-roll from the waiter if you request them. 

we might be getting into a different discussion here. i rarely pepper, and just about never salt, food at a high-end restaurant.

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we might be getting into a different discussion here.  i rarely pepper, and just about never salt, food at a high-end restaurant.

I generally prefer to cook at home than go out to a lower end restaurant, so I suspect that explains our difference of opinion. I associate the nitwit waiter waiving a peppermill with places like the olive garden. It's just not something you see at the mid-level and better places in northern california.

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I generally prefer to cook at home than go out to a lower end restaurant, so I suspect that explains our difference of opinion.  I associate the nitwit waiter waiving a peppermill with places like the olive garden.  It's just not something you see at the mid-level and better places in northern california.

so the steakhouses in northern california all pepper your steak perfectly. must be nice! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

i tend to eat at a lot of high-end restaurants. this might be evident in some of my posts, although i don't post much anymore. so i don't know if that explains our difference of opinion. here in NYC, you see the peppermill at places in-between the Olive Garden and Jean Georges. and there are moer than a few of those in my experience.

i think, rather, that our difference of opinion stems from my reluctance to accept blanket statements and absolutes, especially those associated with taste. i like my food perfectly seasoned as well. but that's just not practical in every dining experience. i offer a steakhouse as an example of an exception, lest anyone think i'm just making stuff up to hear myself type. :laugh:

Edited by tommy (log)
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No, the steakhouses in northern california are complete crap and are to be avoided...

so the steakhouses in northern california all pepper your steak perfectly.  must be nice!  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

i tend to eat at a lot of high-end restaurants.  this might be evident in some of my posts, although i don't post much anymore.  so i don't know if that explains our difference of opinion.  here in NYC, you see the peppermill at places in-between the Olive Garden and Jean Georges.  and there are moer than a few of those in my experience.

i think, rather, that our difference of opinion stems from my reluctance to accept  blanket statements and absolutes, especially those associated with taste.  i like my food perfectly seasoned as well.  but that's just not practical in every dining experience.  i offer a steakhouse as an example of an exception, lest anyone think i'm just making stuff up to hear myself type. :laugh:

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Apparently I'm the only person who thinks the kitchen should properly season my food before they put it on the table.  Not that I'm against having salt and pepper at the table, but needing them should be the exception rather than the rule.

No you're not. I'm with you. Not the least because most of these waiters don't even pay attention and one is likely to end up with half the ground pepper on one's lap.

At the French Laundry this last Sunday, we had a whole tray of, what, 9 kinds of salt. But those salts were not there because the chef forgot to salt the foie gras, they were there as a component of the dish.

092604simplysalt.jpg

edited to show I could indeed count...

Edited by pim (log)

chez pim

not an arbiter of taste

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The thing to remember about pepper, as opposed to salt, is that the taste and aroma start to deteriorate as soon as a peppercorn is ground. I make a pretty good Caesar Salad at home and salt and pepper it (with a pretty good grinder) before plating it. Both my DH and I ALWAYS add more pepper from the grinder on the table. Go figure.

I much prefer to have a grinder on the table of a restaurant. However, for reasons already stated in this thread, that isn't always going to be possible.

I would not assume that the servers in chain restaurants were nitwits; rather the people who go to those places expecting good food are the nitwits. I would always expect professional service wherever I go, knowing that servers rely on tips for the bulk of their income whether they work at OG or the Four Seasons. I had the unfortunate experience of having to eat dinner in various incarnations of Applebees, OG, Outback Steakhouse, TGI Fridays--all the places I had never eaten in before--while clearing out my mother's house in Texas. When I got to decide where to eat, I always chose the family-owned Mexican place where the food is about as authentic as it gets. While I held out little hope for the food in the chains, and was rarely disuaded from that opinion, I did expect, and generally got, professional service.

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Thank you, melkor, for bending to see some different points of view on this subject. I wouldn't say that the majority of restaurant workers in all chains are bright, hard-workers who care about the food they serve and the craft of serving well, but there are quite a few to be found in all walks. Some of the servers in my employ while I was a manager for Chili's were very smart, and it was a good position for them to have, working their way through college. But there were also some intelligent people working with me in fine dining, as well as some true dullards. The result is that I try very hard not to assume someone is a nitwit based on what their current employment is, as hard as that may be to do when faced with certain parking attendants and check-out clerks.

I agree with Daddy-A that the flourish of the pepper grinder, which in my experience, is generally presented right after salads are placed on the table, is meant to give an impression that the establishment provides superior service. I don't really care that much for it, but I'll take one or two quick turns from the grinder. I think it's one of those things that gives a "wow" factor to the uninitiated, leaving some of them to think, "Gee. This place is so fancy they even have someone to grind my pepper for me! If I go to the restroom, will there be someone in there to wipe my bum, too?"

Definitely overrated.

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So many interesting points to address...

However, I will stick mainly to the presence of pepper in restaurants. I, like others on this thread, am a server at a small byob in central NJ. Offering fresh pepper with every course (except dessert :raz: ) is part of our routine. I never considered it as being a grandiose gesture; it is just what we do. More often than not, customers will or won't take pepper without tasting their dish first. An occasional few prefer to taste their dishes first, which I believe is appropriate. I personally love pepper and would probably take it without tasting, although my husband (cook and recently culinary school graduate) has exposed me to the fine art of seasoning and would cringe if he read this!

SO...as a diner I appreciate the offer of fresh ground pepper at the table, although the giant pepper mills generally scare me! My husband and I have continued discussions about what we will want at our own establishment, and I agree that pepper and salt mills on the table are in order (Peugeot only!), and we will have to cross our fingers that our clientele is respectful enough not to lift them. In fact, we dined at one of the top NJ restaurants the other night (at least as far as NJ Magazine is concerned) and s&p mills were provided upon first course and removed before dessert. Perhaps this is a method to retaining said mills?

Just another nitwit opinion :biggrin:

"I can resist everything except temptation." Oscar Wilde

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In fact, we dined at one of the top NJ restaurants the other night (at least as far as NJ Magazine is concerned) and s&p mills were provided upon first course and removed before dessert. Perhaps this is a method to retaining said mills?

Good point and probably spot on. I've always wondered what I would do if one or the pair of salt and peppers went missing before the dessert course? Dare one confront the kleptomaniacal customer? Is there a diplomatic way to search the offenders? What's the proper way to handle this circumstance? :hmmm:

Katie M. Loeb
Booze Muse, Spiritual Advisor

Author: Shake, Stir, Pour:Fresh Homegrown Cocktails

Cheers!
Bartendrix,Intoxicologist, Beverage Consultant, Philadelphia, PA
Captain Liberty of the Good Varietals, Aphrodite of Alcohol

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Good point and probably spot on.  I've always wondered what I would do if one or the pair of salt and peppers went missing before the dessert course?  Dare one confront the kleptomaniacal customer?  Is there a diplomatic way to search the offenders? What's the proper way to handle this circumstance?  :hmmm:

My first thought is to add them onto the final bill - that ought to get their attention pretty darn quick! Kind of like if you happen to help yourself to a robe or towel at at a nice hotel...

Seriously, although it is a shame that quality mills will need a tracking device, I can see myself as a restaurant owner being militant about this. As if I will have nothing better to do with my time :)

"I can resist everything except temptation." Oscar Wilde

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My first thought is to add them onto the final bill - that ought to get their attention pretty darn quick!  Kind of like if you happen to help yourself to a robe or towel at at a nice hotel...

Seriously, although it is a shame that quality mills will need a tracking device, I can see myself as a restaurant owner being militant about this.  As if I will have nothing better to do with my time :)

I was thinking a tiny and descreet device attached to the inside of the salt and peppers that beeped or set off alarms when the offending customers went through the well hidden and well decorated security devices at the front door (like in a clothing store at the mall that forgets to remove that nasty security pin) might be amusing and a serious deterrent to any other hopeful kleptomaniacs. :laugh:

Katie M. Loeb
Booze Muse, Spiritual Advisor

Author: Shake, Stir, Pour:Fresh Homegrown Cocktails

Cheers!
Bartendrix,Intoxicologist, Beverage Consultant, Philadelphia, PA
Captain Liberty of the Good Varietals, Aphrodite of Alcohol

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Well, my experience here in Northern California is that most upper-mid to upper range restaurants have those cute little peppermills on the table instead of pepper shakers. As for the brandishing waiters, I've seen them in upper range restaurants as well as Olive Garden-types, usually, as others have said, after salads. Right now the only one I can be completely sure of is Oliveto, but I'm pretty sure I've seen them in other places.

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Good point and probably spot on.  I've always wondered what I would do if one or the pair of salt and peppers went missing before the dessert course?  Dare one confront the kleptomaniacal customer?  Is there a diplomatic way to search the offenders? What's the proper way to handle this circumstance?  :hmmm:

Heh. I've seen customers walk out with: Salt and pepper shakers/mills, coffee cups, wine glasses, bottles of wine (swiped from display), a sugar caddy the size of a large softball and dozens upon dozens of the pens I purchase for work.

The answer to your question is that there is simply no way to confront them. A simple query, "Did you happen to see my pen?" or "I wonder where that sugar caddy went?" will meet a response of anger and indignation, and will lose you any possibility of getting a tip from that table, plus you'll probably have to bring the manager over so they can explain that you're "the worst server ever!"

There's nothing that can be done about it, from a server's aspect, without being fired. And the server's likely to be the one who will witness the theft.

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foodtutor, in your experience, has the theft of peppermills been an issue moreso than the theft of other items?

it seems to be standard procedure to clear salt and pepper shakers from the table before dessert. surely this cuts down on the amount of theft, if theft is even a huge issue.

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It depends on the size of the pepper mill. A 4 to 5 inch tall pepper mill fits easily into a to-go bag, and therefore will be swiped often. Clearing them before dessert is a great preventive measure, but people will steal them out of server stations, grabbing them off a shelf. They also take them off of other, empty tables.

Is theft a huge issue? It depends on what you mean by huge. There certainly is a lot of it. I once saw a party of 5 take more than a dozen wine glasses, and they hadn't even ordered any wine. They had a private room for a pharmaceutical company presentation, and the room had been booked and set up for 15, but only 5 people showed, and none of them drank alcohol, so the wine glasses were removed and placed on a side stand. When they were done eating, they all asked to have small amounts of food wrapped up, and each of them requested a to-go bag for their little boxes of leftovers. I left the room for a moment, and when I came back, every wine glass was gone and they were all waving goodbye, bags in hand. :laugh:

But seriously, the single most stolen item in the restaurant is my pen. And people have absolutely no compunction about swiping it. They look me straight in the eye, hand me the signed credit card slip with one hand, while pocketing my pen with the other. God, I hate that.

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But seriously, the single most stolen item in the restaurant is my pen. And people have absolutely no compunction about swiping it. They look me straight in the eye, hand me the signed credit card slip with one hand, while pocketing my pen with the other. God, I hate that.

Interesting. My problem is the waitstaff stealing the pens off MY desk! :laugh:

Katie M. Loeb
Booze Muse, Spiritual Advisor

Author: Shake, Stir, Pour:Fresh Homegrown Cocktails

Cheers!
Bartendrix,Intoxicologist, Beverage Consultant, Philadelphia, PA
Captain Liberty of the Good Varietals, Aphrodite of Alcohol

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i don't think that's the case.

So, enlighten me. My argument is simple - it is inappropriate for someone who doesn't care about the food they are serving or who doesn't know anything about the food they are serving to be seasoning that food. We'll ignore the issue of clumsy waiters grinding pepper onto the table and onto the customers. People in general do their best work when they are happy, I can’t imagine someone who loves food being happy at the Olive Garden. Sure it’s a paycheck, and the tips are consistent, but the food is crap.

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So, enlighten me. 

to clarify, i don't think it's the case that beans decided that she should take offense at your preference not to dine at restaurants staffed by people who aren’t good at their job.

i can't comment with a broad generalization about people being good at or not being good at their jobs at certain restaurants as i haven't spent much time in them.

Edited by tommy (log)
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I’m not saying they have no training, and it’s obvious that places like the Cheesecake Factory where a server can easily earn a six figure salary

Holy Cow! :blink: Whom have you been talking to? The Cheesecake Factory on my block is one of the busiest in the country, and their servers aren't pulling in anything like six figures. I have a friend in New York City who describes a particularly good job prospect as one that fetches $800 a week or so, which isn't a heck of a lot to live on in that city.

For myself, I left fine dining when business got so slow that my income fell to around $300 a week. I just can't make it on that, so it was time to make a compromise. I make better money than a lot of servers in this area, but I don't make six figures, and there ain't no "easily" about it, when it comes to any serving job.

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Apparently I'm the only person who thinks the kitchen should properly season my food before they put it on the table.  Not that I'm against having salt and pepper at the table, but needing them should be the exception rather than the rule.

Apparently you haven't eaten at my mother's house :laugh:

Actually.... the only thing I generally put pepper on in restaurants is certain salads, the occasional baked potato (a rare occasion for me to order one) and, if out to breakfast on grits or eggs.

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Holy Cow!  :blink:  Whom have you been talking to? The Cheesecake Factory on my block is one of the busiest in the country, and their servers aren't pulling in anything like six figures. I have a friend in New York City who describes a particularly good job prospect as one that fetches $800 a week or so, which isn't a heck of a lot to live on in that city.

For myself, I left fine dining when business got so slow that my income fell to around $300 a week. I just can't make it on that, so it was time to make a compromise. I make better money than a lot of servers in this area, but I don't make six figures, and there ain't no "easily" about it, when it comes to any serving job.

$800 a week won't pay the rent either in SF or NYC, but from the few people I've spoken to who have worked at The Cheesecake Factory in SF, 2k a week is normal for a server.

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