THE BEST: NYC Fancy Mexican Restaurant

[Fat Guy]

Is Maya the consensus or are there other contenders?

[tommy]

rosa mexicano, 1st ave location. obvious contender, i would think.

Edited September 14, 2004 by tommy (log)

[Fat Guy]

Interesting Zagat aside here:

In Zagat '04 the top Mexican pick is Mexicana Mama, with a 25 food rating, with Maya in second place at 24. Rosa Mexicano, Zarela, and Zocalo -- all on the obvious potential contenders short list -- aren't even on the list of top Zagat picks, though I imagine at one time they were at the top. Let me check some older Zagats.

[Fat Guy]

In Zagat '98 the picture was indeed quite different. The top few picks in order were Rosa Mexicano, Mi Cocina, Zarela, and Zocalo. When Maya opened it immediately knocked everybody else down a notch, so in Zagat '99 we have Maya, Rosa Mexicano, Mi Cocina, Zarela, Zocalo. I can't quite get why Mi Cocina seems to hang around the list every year -- it's the only one of that group still on the 2004 top Mexican list. But I guess there's a bit of apples-and-oranges mixing of the haute Mexican restaurants with the earthier places.

I haven't been to any of these places in a long enough time to have any sort of currently valid opinion, but Maya to me always seemed to be a big cut above the others. I never did have very good luck at Rosa Mexicano or Zarela, though I did have a few very good meals at Zocalo.

[tommy]

zarela, for me, has always been a step down from maya and RM, and Mexicana Mama has been an embarrassment all around. this year's zagat is silly.

Edited September 14, 2004 by tommy (log)

[Mulcahy]

I would vote for Pampano to be included on any short list of NY fancy mexican. Haven't eaten at Maya, but ate at Zarela and Zocalo and found Pampano far superior.

[alacarte]

I agree on Pampano.

I'd also add to the list:

Dos Caminos (even though it's part of the BR Guest chain)

Suenos

Rocking Horse Cafe

I haven't been to Ixta yet, but it sounds like it could be a contender.

[tommy]

can we define "fancy"? probably not, i guess, but in my mind that cuts out a lot of decent restaurants, including the Rocking Horse. i suppose it's all relative though.

[Stone]

Coincedently, I ate at Rosa Mexicano last night. It was very good, but pricey.

We started with guacamole for four. Made tableside in a molcajete. Good guac, but nothing out of the ordinary for good guac. Pricey -- $7 per person, and not very large.

Mahi mahi ceviche was a bit of a disappointment. Not much fish, heavy on tomator and avocado. It say in a very tomato-y broth.

Lump crab ceviche was very good.

As for entrees, this is, of course, not a place for the burrito/enchilada/taco combo. I had Pescadoro Veracruzado (something like that). Delicious filets of white fish, pan fried and smothered with a tomato/olive/caper sauce. The sauce was a bit strong for my, but the fish was excellent.

Others got the lump crab enchilada. Heavy, but terrific. The sauces, variations of bechamel, I think, were tasty but didn't overpower the crab meat.

The other enchilada offering was chicken with mole. It was ordered, but without the mole. People like it. The grilled shrimp skewers with rice was good, but nothing special.

[tommy]

Coincedently, I ate at Rosa Mexicano last night.  It was very good, but pricey.

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but what about those house margaritas?

i confess, i go to RM just for those, and i generally get a very interesting buzz from them. i'm not sure why the buzz is different from any other buzz, but it is. and i'm an expert in these matters.

i *always* get the alambre a al mexicana, which is skewered beef, chirizo, onions, and i ask for extra grilled serrano chilis. that said, i haven't eaten through even a small fraction of their menu, but i've been enough times with enough people to have a good feel for the place. but if they offered nothing but those margaritas, i'd still go.

Edited September 14, 2004 by tommy (log)

[Nathan]

Suenos definitely deserves consideration...that might be my pick.

With that said, I find this town horribly disappointing both in terms of "fancy" Mexican and anything authentic (other than some Pueblan cooking).

I'm surprised Bayless has never done anything here.

[tommy]

I'm surprised Bayless has never done anything here.

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i saw him handing out coupons at the Burger King on 47th and 3rd.

[GlassHouse]

I vote for Rosa Mexicano.

[Suzanne F]

Mexicana Mama????? NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's what you get when just anybody can vote for "best."

[SobaAddict70]

Zarela's is literally around the corner from my apartment.

I've been there a couple of times but wasn't particularly impressed. I thought Veracruz (the downtown version of Zarela but concerned mostly with the cuisine of Veracruz) was slightly better, which isn't saying much.

Ixta is a possibility although Mr. Bruni's review left a bit to be desired.

Soba

[Fat Guy]

i saw him handing out coupons at the Burger King on 47th and 3rd.   

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Had I been online I'd have beaten you by a minute.

[Fat Guy]

It's interesting that we have so many respectable places in the upscale Mexican category, but not one that is really exciting to this group. I wonder how Maya would actually do in a side-by-side against Frontera, though. Or that fancy place in Austin, Fonda San Miguel or whatever it's called.

[SobaAddict70]

Although not primarily "Mexican", I would dare to recommend Patria or Asia de Cuba to anyone seeking restaurants of that genre and of that style or price range.

I hesitate to post this declaration for fear of being set upon, but oh well, here goes: I think the difficulty with having an upscale Mexican restaurant that works on both a critical level and a non-critical level is because the cuisine has an inherent barrier that doesn't lend itself well to something such as "upscale/fancy". Tabla, to draw a parallel in Indian food had this problem for some time but as we have seen, managed to break through this barrier by turning what people thought of Indian food on its head.

I have yet to see a Mexican or quasi-Mexican place do that. Why is that?

I'm not saying that it can't be done. I'm saying that in A LOT of people's minds, it's difficult to equate a cuisine that's usually thought of as being focused around salsa and chips with high-end cuisine. Now, I realize this is a rather extreme generalization as there is a difference between "Mexican" and "Tex-Mex", but most people equate the two (and only because they haven't been introduced to the difference). I for one, would love to have such a place exist. I'd be one of the first ones to make a reservation.

Now where have we heard this argument before?

Soba

[juuceman]

I think that before it closed six months ago, Salon Mexico was the highlight of upscale mexican food in the city.. Alan Kaplan, the chef and owner of the place put his heart and soul into it.. Grimes reviewed it in December of 2002, linked below.. Kaplan sent out a newsletter a few months ago saying he was planning on reopening somewhere else soon.. i'll be there..

NYT Salon Mexico Review

[Nathan]

Hmmm....Frontera Grill is not really fancy -- but it still beats the socks off anything in NY, if nothing else because of the regional breadth it offers.

Part of the problem here is that very few people in NY have any experience with Mexican food beyond northern Mexico (and the regions are widely dissimilar)...leaving aside the whole Tex-Mex question.

For example, there is nothing Oaxacan here (my favorite).....which leads to the knowledge quandary -- when I see a reference to an "enchilada with mole" -- which mole? Mole just means sauce....there are many, many regional variations....but I have a feeling that even to most NY food aficianados mole refers to one of the chocolate based sauces.

I think a restaurant embodying one of the more unfamiliar regions (or several of them a la Bayless) would run into the pre-conceived notion difficulty here.

[Stone]

It's interesting that we have so many respectable places in the upscale Mexican category, but not one that is really exciting to this group.

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I think the problem is that the "lighter" fare (such as the grilled shrimp skewers at RM) are fairly unexciting (and the rice was mushy). The more intricate stuff comes with such heavy sauces, it's difficult to really appreciate contrasting textures in the dish. For example, the fish I had at RM was excellent, but could only be noticed if I pushed off the thick sauce.

[rancho_gordo]

Part of the problem here is that very few people in NY have any experience with Mexican food beyond northern Mexico (and the regions are widely dissimilar)...leaving aside the whole Tex-Mex question.

California WAS Mexico for awhile, we have a huge Mexican population but we have the same problem.

Ultimately, for a restaurant to remain really authentic it would need to cater to Mexicans and due to economics or plain old common sense, I don't think a lot of Mexican immigrants are dining fancy these days.

When my Mexican pals have a few extra bucks or the need to party, they buy a ton of food and make their own fun.

I realize I am generalizing and I'm sure there are many exceptions.

Re Maya. There's one in San Francisco and I've only met one person who has ever dined there! I bought his book and there are some nice ideas but there's lots of stacked food and sauces artfully dispensed from squeeze bottles and that sort of thing drives me nuts.

[Nathan]

Having a critical mass of Mexican immigrants (leaving aside the economic issue) isn't enough because most Mexican immigrants in the U.S. are from the same couple regions of Mexico -- so at most "authentic" Mexican here is generally limited to those regions. Leaving aside his commercial activities, it is Bayless that has done more than anyone else to introduce other Mexican cuisines to the U.S. (but since his influence is primarily in the midwest -- we are left with the paradox that Campezuchi in Milwaukee is better than anything here).

[bpearis]

Almost all the Mexican immigrants in NYC are from the Puebla region and you can find some killer Pueblan Mexican places in the city.

I gotta say, when I crave Mexican I dont' think about high end places, I want tacos de enchilada or tacos de suadero at Tehuitzingo in Hell's Kitchen; or I want the sopes de pollo at Matamoros Puebla in Williamsburg; or any of the killer moles at Tulcingo del Valle (right down the street from Tehuitzingo on 10th Ave); or the tamales at Rico's Tamales in Sunset Park.

Rosa Mexicano's tableside guacamole is great, but I can make it just good at home. They show you how!

[Chris Amirault]

It is Bayless that has done more than anyone else to introduce other Mexican cuisines to the U.S. (but since his influence is primarily in the midwest -- we are left with the paradox that Campezuchi in Milwaukee is better than anything here).

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I haven't lived in Milwaukee for ten years, but even back then there was a massive and vibrant Mexican food community. I don't think Campezuchi was there, then, was it? I googled it and didn't find anything....

Also, if we are to take Tony Bourdain's word, we should remember that virtually every restaurant in NYC is a Mexican restaurant, at least in terms of staffing.