Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Problems with Medrich's Chocolate Ice Cream


merstar

Recommended Posts

Well, I attempted to make Alice Medrich's Bittersweet Chocolate Ice Cream last night, and my chocolate wouldn't melt. I'm so pissed off - I had to throw the whole thing in the garbage.

I followed the directions exactly - it said to heat the custard to 175-180 F, then pour over the chopped chocolate, and mix till melted. The chocolate didn't blend completely and left lots of specks after stirring for several minutes, and of course the mixture didn't become thick. This specks were not hard lumps, but they were still specks and stayed separated from the cream mixture, leaving the texture thin. I checked my candy thermometer for accuracy and it is indeed 100 % accurate. So what the *%_^*_$^)!!&(* happened? Is 175-180F not hot enough a temperature to melt chocolate?! I've used this method before with scalded cream and it usually works - can't figure out why it didn't this time. After stirring for awhile with no results, I tried to heat it a little over a double boiler and it still didn't blend.

I used one of Medrich's variations (she includes several at the end of the original recipe, which I omitted here), and did 6 oz of 70% bittersweet chocolate with 1/2 cup sugar instead of the 3 1/2 oz unsweetened chocolate with 3/4 cup sugar. Note: my chocolate was at room temperature, and I chopped it into very small pieces so it wasn't overly coarse. Here's the recipe:

BITTERSWEET CHOCOLATE ICE CREAM

Makes about 3 1/2 cups

INGREDIENTS:

3 1/2 oz. unsweetened chocolate, coarsely chopped

1 1/2 c. heavy cream

1 1/2 c. whole milk

3/4 c. granulated sugar

1/8 tsp. salt

4 large egg yolks

1 tsp. pure vanilla extract

Set a strainer over a medium bowl near the stove. Put the chocolate in a medium bowl next to it. In a 1 1/2 qt - 2 qt. saucepan, bring the cream, milk, sugar and salt to a simmer over medium heat.

Meanwhile, in a third medium bowl, whisk the yolks just to combine them. Whisking constantly, pour the hot cream mixture slowly over the yolks. Scrape the mixture back into the saucepan and cook over mdium heat, stirring constantly with a silicone spatula or a wooden spoon, until the mixture thickens slightly and registers between 175 and 180 degrees F. Strain the mixture into the waiting bowl to remove any bits of cooked egg. Stir in the vanilla. Pour just enough of the hot cream mixture over the chocolate to cover it. Stir until the chocolate is melted and the mixture is thick and smooth. Gradually add the rest of the cream mixture, stirring until perfectly blended and smooth. Cover and refrigerate until chilled.

Freeze according to the instructions for your ice-cream maker.

Edited by merstar (log)
There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a similar problem making a chocolate ice cream from a recipe by Pierre Herme that involved actually boiling the cream & chocolate together (no eggs). I think if you have undissolved bits the only thing to do is to strain them out of the mix. Running ice cream base through a strainer is usually a good idea anyway.

"I think it's a matter of principle that one should always try to avoid eating one's friends."--Doctor Dolittle

blog: The Institute for Impure Science

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I posted this over at the Fine Cooking forum also, and the consensus is that there wasn't enough hot cream initially added to the chocolate, which is simply due to flawed instructions.

Medrich says "Pour just enough of the hot cream mixture over the chocolate to cover it. Stir until the chocolate is melted and the mixture is thick and smooth. Gradually add the rest of the cream mixture, stirring until perfectly blended and smooth."

Most think it would have been better to add about 1/2 - 3/4 of the cream immediately.

In addition, I'm not sure whether letting it sit a few minutes, then stirring it, OR stirring right away after adding the hot liquid makes any difference in melting chocolate, but I definitely believe the too-small amount of hot cream screwed it up in this case.

There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

until the mixture thickens slightly and registers between 175 and 180 degrees F. Strain the mixture into the waiting bowl to remove any bits of cooked egg. Stir in the vanilla. Pour just enough of the hot cream mixture over the chocolate to cover it. Stir until the chocolate is melted and the mixture is thick and smooth.

Ok......so I'm figuring it this way:

Your mixture is at approximately 175 to 180 degrees.

You strain the mixture into a bowl then stir in vanilla. It's probably cooled a good amount in this process.

Then you add it to your chopped chocolate which cools it further. There probably wasn't enough residual heat at that point to melt all of your chocolate. That's my guess anyway.

So I say, why not just melt the chocolate and add your hot cream mixture to it? Then you don't have to worry about the heat of the cream mixture melting all of your chocolate.

That's the ticket!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

until the mixture thickens slightly and registers between 175 and 180 degrees F. Strain the mixture into the waiting bowl to remove any bits of cooked egg. Stir in the vanilla. Pour just enough of the hot cream mixture over the chocolate to cover it. Stir until the chocolate is melted and the mixture is thick and smooth.

Ok......so I'm figuring it this way:

Your mixture is at approximately 175 to 180 degrees.

You strain the mixture into a bowl then stir in vanilla. It's probably cooled a good amount in this process.

Then you add it to your chopped chocolate which cools it further. There probably wasn't enough residual heat at that point to melt all of your chocolate. That's my guess anyway.

So I say, why not just melt the chocolate and add your hot cream mixture to it? Then you don't have to worry about the heat of the cream mixture melting all of your chocolate.

That's the ticket!

Anne, Thanks! That's EXACTLY what I'm going to do next time!

There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you taste the mixture? Did it taste oily or grainy? if so the cream may have been to hot and caused the chocolate to separate. What Brand of chocolate did you use. I have heard that some folks have trouble tempering and working with 70% Sharffenburger (don't know if I have spelled it correctly). I am afraid I don't have answers just questions.

Fred Rowe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To foolcontrol and FWED:

The chocolate I used was Scharffen Berger 70%. I love the taste of this chocolate, but do you think I should forget about using it altogether or simply melt it first as Anne suggested?

Edited by merstar (log)
There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you taste the mixture?  Did it taste oily or grainy?

NO, it did not taste oily or grainy. It actually tasted great.

There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a similar problem making a chocolate ice cream from a recipe by Pierre Herme that involved actually boiling the cream & chocolate together (no eggs). I think if you have undissolved bits the only thing to do is to strain them out of the mix. Running ice cream base through a strainer is usually a good idea anyway.

It was beyond help, ie, straining. It just never incorporated and was very thin.

There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ScharffenBerger is kind of weird....I will say that. We sell it where I work, and I tried it.....not my favorite chocolate to work with, that's for sure!

If you like the taste of the ScharffenBerger, go ahead and use it again......just melt it first and you should be fine!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ScharffenBerger is kind of weird....I will say that. We sell it where I work, and I tried it.....not my favorite chocolate to work with, that's for sure!

If you like the taste of the ScharffenBerger, go ahead and use it again......just melt it first and you should be fine!

Okay, thanks again, Anne!

There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a last resort, you should always try a blender. I use one as a first resort for operations like this.

Thanks for the suggestion. How about an electric mixer instead of a blender?

Edited by merstar (log)
There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am with katherine about the blender. However, I use a stick blender. If you use one don't bring it up to the surface. Keep it at the bottom and it will do the work without whipping air into it. Several of the pastry chef's at the World Pastry Forum classes use them and recommend them highly. I also recommend if you want to use the S B 70% then melt it first.

Fred Rowe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am with katherine about the blender. However, I use a stick blender. If you use one don't bring it up to the surface. Keep it at the bottom and it will do the work without whipping air into it. Several of the pastry chef's at the World Pastry Forum classes use them and recommend them highly. I also recommend if you want to use the S B 70% then melt it first.

I agree - we always used a stick blender on our chocolate ice cream in school. Unlike a ganache, there is such a high ratio of liquid to chocolate that it's really the only way to get the mixture completely incorporated. Do not use an electric mixer. This will incorporate way too much air and the beaters don't actually spin fast enough to do the job that a blender would.

Actually, now that I re-look at the recipe, I can see that Medrich is trying to get you to make a ganache-like mixture first with the smaller amount of hot liquid before adding the rest. This should work as long as you make sure the mixture is very smooth before adding more liquid. I would use a whisk rathar than a spatual, and when you pour the initial amount of hot liquid over the chocolate, let it sit for a couple minutes to let the heat melt the chocolate before stirring. You could also melt, or patially melt the chocolate in the microwave beforehand as suggested above. But it sounds like a work around for an audience that might not have a stick blender at home.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Typical Medrich. Also, the Fine Cooking folks, in general, are well-meaning but just not that knowledgeable or experienced--there's no inherent problem with this "recipe." There is no need to strain, no need to re-heat. It all comes down to understanding technique, having the right tools and adapting to your situation. And SharffenBerger is no more "problematic" than any high cacao-percentage couverture when it comes to making ice cream.

Make your creme anglaise, pour it over your chocolate pistoles all at once, whiz with your immersion blender, cover loosely with plastic wrap pressed right down to the surface of your mixture, set in an ice bath, cool, stirring occasionally, refrigerate. End of what should be a very straightforward story. (I'd also recommend you don't put your warm chocolate custard mixture in the fridge as Medrich advises--better to get in the habit of cooling down all your custard-based ice creams first in an ice water bath.) So I'm with FWED and Neil on the key role of the immersion blender.

There's less of a need to "strain" your anglaise because the immersion blender will pulverize any little bits of cooked egg, the immersion blender will also emulsify any bit of "separated" chocolate (there won't be any but just in case there were) and the immersion blender will ensure that your 185 degree creme anglaise melts all your chocolate because it will a) help grind up the chocolate itself and b) combine the two mixtures much more rapidly, thereby applying more of the available heat to the chocolate more quickly. A taller, less wide container works best to whiz, so, too, does keeping your blender submerged as I think FWED suggested. You will need to use a rubber spatual to scrape down the sides of the container, once, because some chocolate will stick there, then just whiz a bit after you do that.

(Just an historical fyi--more frequent and more varied use of the immersion blender, like on anglaise or custards or curds, is a Spanish advancement, for a decade the leading Spanish pastry chefs have experimented with cooking these in new ways--"poaching" the mixture in an oven then whizzing, microwaving then whizzing, etc. Part of thinking and re-thinking traditional ways.)

The better "homemaker" and/or "but I don't have an immersion blender" workaround is cook your anglaise, let it cool slightly, then pour already melted but somewhat cool chocolate in a slow stream into the center, stirring with a whisk. Same emulsified result.

(If you use a PacoJet, you can be even more cavalier with a chocolate ice cream or sorbet base--the whizzing of the PacoJet emulsifies your mixture as long as you have your fat and temps balanced.)

Steve Klc

Pastry chef-Restaurant Consultant

Oyamel : Zaytinya : Cafe Atlantico : Jaleo

chef@pastryarts.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, wouldn't we all love to have an immersion blender! I know I would.

But ya know, I'm cheap. Cheap cheap cheap.

I always like to be able to solve my culinary dilemmas without having to throw money at it.

I mean, I don't have much money to throw around anyway.......sheesh.....I work in the

food business doncha know.

When people ask questions or want to be able to make something work, I always give the

answer that most anyone could implement. I never assume people have special tools. I have

a lot of them....but not everything, and I don't believe most home cooks have all those fun

little gadgets that make kitchen life easier either.

Gosh, you know what I'd love to have? A freakin' sheeter. But I gotta make do with a

rolling pin.

As do a lot of folks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, wouldn't we all love to have an immersion blender! I know I would.

But ya know, I'm cheap. Cheap cheap cheap.

When cheapness gets competitive, I'll be right up there with you vying for the title.

But I bought an immersion blender at Walmart for $20. Just do it. No need for all those accessories, bells and whistles. It blends.

You'll never look back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am with katherine about the blender.  However, I use a stick blender.  If you use one don't bring it up to the surface.  Keep it at the bottom and it will do the work without whipping air into it.  Several of the pastry chef's at the World Pastry Forum classes use them and recommend them highly.  I also recommend if you want to use the S B 70% then melt it first.

Thanks, Fred. Question: Why is a stick blender preferable to a regular blender?

There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am with katherine about the blender.  However, I use a stick blender.  If you use one don't bring it up to the surface.  Keep it at the bottom and it will do the work without whipping air into it.  Several of the pastry chef's at the World Pastry Forum classes use them and recommend them highly.  I also recommend if you want to use the S B 70% then melt it first.

I agree - we always used a stick blender on our chocolate ice cream in school. Unlike a ganache, there is such a high ratio of liquid to chocolate that it's really the only way to get the mixture completely incorporated. Do not use an electric mixer. This will incorporate way too much air and the beaters don't actually spin fast enough to do the job that a blender would.

Actually, now that I re-look at the recipe, I can see that Medrich is trying to get you to make a ganache-like mixture first with the smaller amount of hot liquid before adding the rest. This should work as long as you make sure the mixture is very smooth before adding more liquid. I would use a whisk rathar than a spatual, and when you pour the initial amount of hot liquid over the chocolate, let it sit for a couple minutes to let the heat melt the chocolate before stirring. You could also melt, or patially melt the chocolate in the microwave beforehand as suggested above. But it sounds like a work around for an audience that might not have a stick blender at home.

Thanks, Neil. I guess I should be looking into getting a stick blender. As I asked Fred, what are the benefits in using a stick blender instead of an electric?

Edited by merstar (log)
There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the tips, Steve.

"Also, the Fine Cooking folks, in general, are well-meaning but just not that knowledgeable or experienced--there's no inherent problem with this "recipe."

Actually, there are many professional chefs and pastry chefs who hang out at the Fine Cooking Forum.

FWIW, none of the FC gang said the recipe was "flawed," - that was my own choice of words, since I felt from the beginning that Medrich's instructions were off about the small amount of hot liquid to initially add to the chocolate. Unfortunately, I didn't follow my own knowledge and instincts - and it was VERY late at night and I was tired - I should know better than to do anything when I'm that tired!

"(I'd also recommend you don't put your warm chocolate custard mixture in the fridge as Medrich advises--better to get in the habit of cooling down all your custard-based ice creams first in an ice water bath.)" Thanks, I usually do use an ice bath, but didn't even have a chance to get to that step with this recipe - it was already history.

Edited by merstar (log)
There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that the main advantage is flexibility and portability. You can even get models that are cordless. They are battery operated and come with a charger. I prefer the corded type because I think they have more power.

I use a stick blender for many things. I use it for large batches of salad dressings, pureeing soups right in the pot, whipping ganach and, in general, blending ingredients. I can actually blend thing right in the bowl that they are going to stay in as long as its tall enough and if you keep the working end of the blender below the top of the ingredient you won't whip air into it.

I recommend using a tall bowl or container to prevent splatter while using. I have found that since I bought the stick I have taken the old blender off the counter and haven't used it in about a year. They won't do everything but they sure come in handy and I find them easier to clean than the old blender. And thats a good thing :biggrin:

Fred Rowe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The stick blender is the way to go.

I use mine for my 70% chocolate ice cream all the time, no problems.

I hardly ever temper things anymore, although I use large quanities of egg yolks, so I have less of a chance of scrambling things.

Re: Scharfenberger choc: It sounds like it's a slightly tempermental chocolate, like those El Rey high percentage ones.

I've had ganaches go weird on me using El Rey, even simply melting it was a problem.

Hence, it was banished from my workplace.

Good luck on the next batch, and I wouldn't hestitate getting 'The Stick".

25/35 bucks well spent and you'll never stop using it! :biggrin:

2317/5000

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...