Taillevent Merged topics

[Steve Plotnicki]

Jin - When I wrote that it made me think of you .

[Michael Laiskonis]

Another brilliant report, sir. I love the bit with the tie!

Apart from your initial hesitance, what were your general expectations of the meal beforehand? What levels of tasting menus were offered, and are there reasons that you went à la carte?

I eagerly anticipate your thoughts on Gagnaire. Though I'll admit to lacking a broad scope of French dining experiences, I'm with Mr. Shaw!

[cabrales]

I would rather fast than dine at Gagnaire again, unless dining companions ask me to accompany them. A recent visit has not changed my views with respect to Gagnaire's misguided cuisine

[jaybee]

Thanks, Steve, for a well-written, interesting and perceptive report. What was the all-inclusive per person cost of the meal at Taillvent? Was the place busy?

[Steve Plotnicki]

Jaybee - The dinner with two bottles of wine ran a little less then 900 Euros for four people. Quite reasonable for a meal in that type of place if you ask me.

Mlpc - I have eaten at Taillevent about a half dozen times and I have come to expect a meal that is similar to the one they served me two weeks ago. But sometimes the food is on and other times the food can seem boring. Since the meal there is so simple, if the food isn't just right, it can take the joy out of the meal.

[MartyL]

Add my thanks to the chorus for the very entertaining post.

When I was a freshman in college, my family and I were treated to a stay in Paris by a very gracious and generous family friend. The trip was capped by dinner on New Year's Eve at Taillevent (hey, I told you she was generous).

This was my first experience with a restaurant at anywhere near this level, and I was just floored. A few things I remember from that meal include an unbelievably creamy watercress soup, a dense and rich truffe en croute (I didn't know what a Truffle was at the time), an intermezzo of champagne sorbet to cleanse the palate, an impossibly runny and stinky "New Year's" Vacherin cheese, and yes, the chocolate cake with pistachio sauce.

I haven't been back there since, I think mostly because I am just a little afraid it won't live up to the memory of that first amazing experience, but it is always nice to read a positive report.

[PaulaJK]

Thanks for sharing your Taillevent experience,Steve.

I'll vote w. Cabrales on Gagnaire! ...but will be very interested

to read your [next] review.

[Jinmyo]

Jin - When I wrote that it made me think of you  .

Steve, I can't tell you how much it cost to have them do that. But you're worth it.

[cabrales]

I'll vote w. Cabrales on Gagnaire!

After my meal there last month, I actually told the chef I did not prefer his food and I believed it was too complex.

[Bux]

Thanks again. I am eagerly awaiting the report on Gagnaire, not the least because I think we had our most fantastic meal in Paris, in Gagnaire when it was two stars. Of all the restaurants in Paris, Gagnaire has been the one too which we most want to return and to which we have plans to return.

There is more than a bit of trepidation that I will not find the subsequent increases in price justified or worse yet, that the food has become so creatively tortured that Gagnaire will lose our interest, but it he hasn't earned a return visit on the basis of our first visit, no one will.

[Bux]

I'll vote w. Cabrales on Gagnaire!

After my meal there last month, I actually told the chef I did not prefer his food and I believed it was too complex.

I may believe it is too complex and may not like what I eat the next time I am there, but it I had five reports of gastronomes who loved a restaurant and five who hated it, I would find that restaurant as compelling to visit, for the first time, as one which garnered eight raves and no negative reports. In fact the controversy might make it more compelling. It would certainly be more compelling that a restaurant elicited pretty good recations and no negative reactions from twenty diners.

[Andy Lynes]

Extremely good, and it isn’t quite Foie gras season yet either.

Can you explain this remark a little further please i.e. when does the season run from and to and why is it that foie gras produced in that period is better than that produced at other times of the year?

[Andy Lynes]

I'll vote w. Cabrales on Gagnaire!

After my meal there last month, I actually told the chef I did not prefer his food and I believed it was too complex.

To which he replied......?

[cabrales]

Thanks again. I am eagerly awaiting the report on Gagnaire, not the least because I think we had our most fantastic meal in Paris, in Gagnaire when it was two stars.

Bux -- I'm going to let the member with whom I dined there take the lead on describing the meal.

To which he replied......?

Andy -- A discussion of why I preferred other styles of cuisine followed. That's about all I'm comfortable discussing at this point.

[Andy Lynes]

Fair enough, I hope you weren't ejected as a result though!

[cabrales]

Andy -- No, it was after the meal

[Andy Lynes]

Good timing!

[ajay]

kudos to Steve P on another excellent post; the details are vivid, and somehow I always seem to be hungry when I'm finished reading.

This post contains several issues that demonstrate my wine ignorance, and I am hoping members can educate me a bit.

In regards to the '95 ravneau Chablis premier cru Steve P. mentioned that it was "tight" and it would benefit from another 3-4 years of storage or about an hour in a decanter.

My first question is what does a "tight" white wine taste like? How can one ascertain whether the wine will profit from more time/air or that it is simply a vintage that will not improve?

My second question is should really be indifferent between the option of storage or decanting? Will they both impart roughly similar charactertstics to the wine? Will someone who is not an expert (but has a partially developed palate) be able to taste the difference?

If one of the two methods is preferrable why?

Third, assuming that one is sophisticated enough to care, how can one avoid ordering a vintage that is not ready to drink, especially when experts like Steve P and his Captain at Tailvent were caught off guard?

Fourth, do restaurants and sommeliers have an obligation to inform a diner if a wine they desire is not drinking well or would require so much time to decant that it would impractical to take it in during a particular meal? In this context, Steve P stated that he appreciated the offer to upgrade to the Chablis Grand Cru (blanking on the specifics) but knew that it is not ready to drink yet. Presumably the captain would know this also; why would he offer a wine that is not yet ready to be enjoyed? Is this a common practice, or is the difference so small as to be insignificant to all but the connesuirs (sp) who will know about these things and therefore do not need to be told.

Finally, I have a questionn on the second wine, the 1989 Meo-Camuzet Vosne-Romanee. What region is this from? Is it a bordeaux [my best guess]? As you all can tell, I have a rather limited background, but would like to use this opportunity to enhance my knowledge. Any info on this wine its region strength of other years availability etc would be appreciated.

[Fat Guy]

I'll take the last one. It's a Burgundy, specifically a red Burgundy made from 100% pinot noir grapes (with minor exceptions, you can always assume this). Basic label reading for this wine: 1989 is the vintage. Meo-Camuzet is the producer. Vosne-Romanee is a geographical designation corresponding to the vineyards around a village that is actually named Vosne-Romanee. Within the area of vineyard land that can call itself Vosne-Romanee, the land is subdivided into specific vineyards. So you might see a Vosne-Romanee that has a specific vineyard designation on the label as well. I believe in Plotnicki's example Chaumes is the vineyard. But unlike in the United States, where chances are that any particular vineyard is privately owned by one company, in Burgundy there could be dozens of owners sharing a vineyard with each owning just a few rows of vines. So you can see wine from the same specific vineyard in Vosne-Romanee from more than one producer. This makes for very interesting tastings, as you're talking about wines from essentially identical grapes but with different end results. Also as is typical with Burgundy villages you have three levels of Vosne-Romanee: Village, premier cru (Chaumes is a premier cru vineyard, as I recall), and grand cru, in ascending order of (usually) quality and price. As to the specific wine, again going in order of the label: Most experts will tell you that 1989 was a pretty good but not great vintage in Burgundy for the reds, and a really good one for the whites. Meo-Camuzet isn't a producer I'm too familiar with -- I've maybe tried two wines -- but what I've heard in conversations with wine people is that it suffered a drop in quality around maybe 1988 or 1987 -- whenever it was that the legendary Henri Jayer stopped being involved in their winemaking. That aside, a 1990 would likely be a heck of a lot better than a 1989, were you to have the choice. Ditto for 1995 and 1996. As for Vosne-Romanee, you're not going to find many bad ones. Many consider it to be the best wine village in Burgundy, and perhaps the world. Someone please correct any misstatements I might have made; this isn't exactly my thing.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Ajay - Good questions. Here are a few shorthand answers. When they make wine, it is usually very fruity and easy to drink when it is in cask. But anywhere between 6 months and 2 years after they bottle the wine, the wine enters a process called "reduction." Reduction is the process that turns wine into mature wines. What it really means is that the small amount of air that is in the bottle of wine evaporates the volatile acidity in the wine. But during the process, the fruit in the wine is completely surpressed to the acid and the wine has no discernable or very little smell or flavor. Depending on the wine, this aging process can take anywhere from 3 years to 50 years. In fact if you open bottles of wine like 1959 Latour, they still haven't finished the process to the extent where collectors would call the wine "fully mature." Now you know what makes wines great wines.

So in this particular instance, I guessed that the 1995 had gone through the process to an extent sufficient that I would find it enjoyable to drink. I based my reasoning on the fact that I've had other '95's from the same producer and why should this particluar bottling be any different? But unfortunately wine is an inexact science and there are countless factors why this wine wasn't ready to drink and the wine that comes from the very next plot in the vineyard is. As for the sommelier's obligation to tell someone a wine isn't ready to drink, one of the problems is that almost every wine on a restaurant list isn't ready to drink as they mostly feature newer wines. But in this instance, I think the sommelier did the best he could.

The problem with wine is that there is no way to gain the exerience to handle it in the manner I just described other then trial and error. That makes it an expensive exercise. But one that is probably worth it because the results are rewarding if you get it right. Problem is, due to the variable nature of wine, getting it right comes down to getting it right about 2/3 of the time.

The Meo-Camuzet is a Burgundy. Vosne-Romanee is one of the major villages in Burgundy. The most famous wines from that village are Romanee-Conti, La Tache and Romanee-Saint-Vivant. The Chaumes is a Premier Cru which means it's in the second tier of quality. But Chaumes is in the top tier regarding quality in its category.

[Steve Plotnicki]

To add to Fat Guy's explanation about Meo-Camuzet, the legendary Henri Jayer was forced to give up his vineyard holding in the 80's due to French retirement laws and taxes one has to pay on assets. Jean-Claude Meo bought the vineyard and he has been making the wines since then. At the beginning Jayer consulted but that stopped years ago. Meo never gained the expertise to make wines in the style that Jayer made them. The wines he makes are sort of conservative where the Jayer wines are the height of opulence. As for vintages, 1990 is a controversial vintage among Burgundy enthusiasts. Many regard it as one of the best vintages of the century but many people think the wines are too ripe and alcoholic and while good, do not exhibit the typical charcteristics of Burgundy. In fact I know many people who have sold off all of their '90's because they were disapppointed in how they were turning out. Go figure. But regardless, the top tier 1990's are undrinkable and won't be ready for at least another 5 years. The 1989's on the other hand are coming into their prime. And Meo for some reason made some partilcularly good 1989's that are drinking delightfully these days.

[macrosan]

Terrific, atmospheric report, SteveP. Unless I've missed something, it's been a while

My own preference, at this level of dining, is for graciousness of service to balance the quality of food, so Taillevent sounds perfect for me.

I enjoyed your description of their menu development as "Kind of like the way they modernize the design of a Mercedes 500 sedan over the years".

Don't miss answering Andy's question about seasonality of foie gras - I'm also interested in the answer.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Andy - Sorry I missed your question about the foie. My understanding is that the foie gras season begins in late November and runs through the winter. Why they raise geese and ducks on that schedule is something someone better versed in agriculture then I has to speak to. It's like baby lamb for Easter. Do they do it on purpose or is it something about the breeding cycle and other conditions that make lamb for springtime, or foie for x-mas of better quality?

[Fat Guy]

That's correct, as I understand it. If you're in France around the time of American Thanksgiving you might hit a market on the first weekend of foie gras season, in which case you'll see a whole heck of a lot of the stuff. You can of course get fresh foie gras anytime but the livers are at their height of fatness and lusciousness during the season. Primarily I think it has to do with the feeding schedule over the long summer and into early fall. The differences are minor, but most chefs will tell you that the foie gras is noticeably better in winter.

[StephenT]

Possibly ducks and geese are naturally putting on fat during the winter, so they take to the fattening process for foie gras more readily?